What are you doing to go on?

[Sami_D]

Just popping in to apologise for my apalling drunken posting last night.

 

I'm SO SORRY to have upset people... bad day, drink. Will try not to post in such a state again.

[OzGirl]

Sami - don't beat yourself up. We still love you.... we've all been in that state before,too, ya know!

 

Well, it's Sunday morning here. Just thought I'd share a lil' secret with you all...

 

On Friday night 'that guy' who I've mentioned before that I met a few weeks back and he rings me everyday just to say hi and have a chat? Well, he rang me and we ended up going out for dinner then back to his place....

 

Well, it was WIERD to go to HIS house. I think I went to ex-MM's house 3 times in 3 years and all 3 times when were W was away and I never felt comfortable. After all, it was clean, smelt nice (you know, like clearly a woman lived there).

 

So, back to Friday night. It smelt a bit musty (lol - clearly NO woman lives there!). But, that's no biggie. We had a few drinks, and he asked me if I wanted to stay the night, then immediately said he would 'be a gentleman' and wouldn't try anything on me. So, you know, I've had few champagnes, and I couldn't drive (but a taxi home would have been no problem - he only lives 5 mins away), and I think "hell yeah, why not".

 

Well, true to his word, he didn't try anything on me, but it was the first time I've had a body (that didn't have 4 legs and purred) next to me, and it felt reeealllly nice (it's nearly winter over here, so yah, it's a bit cold at night).

 

Now, a couple of things. Firstly, you want details? Well, there aren't any really. I took him up on the 'not try anything' offer. I don't know yet if I'm ready to 'go there'. But, we kissed and ya know, the wierdest thing happened. I rolled over (back facing him) to go to sleep and tears came out of my eyes. All I could think of was ex-MM. I didn't wish him back, but rather, just realised in a new circumstance that last time I was at, it was with him. It made me miss him, but it wasn't like I sobbed for long (after all, I didn't want MrX next to me to know!). It was just a short few tears of "letting go" some more. But, I was okay after it.

 

The thing is, that I've vowed not to rush blindly head first into anything new. And, this feels nothing like when I met ex-MM. From the second we met, he and I were in this whirlwind of connection and like we'd found our lost twin. Nothing like that with this new guy at all. I'm yet to work out where I sit.

 

But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Just thought I'd let you know I gave something new a try, and it was certainly not harmless, and it did somehow help me further (even if slightly) disconnect myself from ex-MM in my own mind.

 

So, in line with this entire thread - there ya go! I tried something new.

 

Sami - listen up. You take care of yourself. I went through a self-destructive phase and I destroyed everything the MM could have liked about me, and did and said things to him and his family to ensure I destroyed any sense in him to want me again. I had to "kill" it, because HE wouldn't. I look back at that now and think it was just humiliating and achieved what I could have achieved with more control if I was stronger.

 

Regardless of how you are and the ups and downs you go through, we're here, we really do care, and you know we do, and we know you know we do.

[OzGirl]

Thought I'd add - I told MrX about ex-MM soon after we started talking. I guess sometimes you feel the need to explain why you're single...?? Anyway, we exchanged stories.

 

After I told him mine, and I didn't leave out too much, or primp myself up when telling him... he said he was 'gob-smacked'. Never pictured me to be someone to be roped into such a situation, then said I'd changed his view that OW are always desperate woman who get with MM because no other man would have them, etc.

 

When I added "well, I won't be doing THAT again", he said he doubted I'd ever have to - I'm so beautiful, intelligent, funny, vivacious... (I'm sure the list is never-ending...lol!!!!).

 

Then, you know... he just said "oh well, his loss, my gain".

 

Was nice to not feel judged - and when you think about it, it would be easy to be able to judge me in that situation.

 

Funny how for all the excrutiatingly unbareable pain, etc, of the ex-MM situation, to someone else, it was purely something that came out advantageous to them, and they assumed, to me.

 

Bizarro World. That's where we all live!

[Jessie61]

Thank you, Ozgirl, for your posts! We need constant reminding that there IS a life after MM!

[Walking away]

Ozgirl,

 

What your guy said to you is EXACTLY what the men I have been dating say to me: His loss....my gain.

 

I had dinner with a gentleman tonight. Flowers, dinner, movie. He treated me wonderfully. Opened the doors for me, offered his hand when I got out of his car.....It felt really good to be with someone who wants only ME.

 

When he saw me at the restaurant, his jaw literally fell open. He told me that I was absolutely stunning.

 

I am telling you this because there ARE men out there that that want only us...not us AND their wife. And, they shake their heads and wonder how in the world these MM let us go. And, I tell you...it feels great to have someone completely attentive to me...and not preoccupied with who may see us together and all that other garbage we endure as the OW.

 

I decided that life was too short to wait around for a dream that would never happen. And, I feel good. It feels good to be adored for me and ONLY me.

 

And, I will never go back to second choice again.

 

Ever.

[Jessie61]

Ozgirl,

 

What your guy said to you is EXACTLY what the men I have been dating say to me: His loss....my gain.

 

And, they shake their heads and wonder how in the world these MM let us go.

 

 

WA,

 

I am so delighted to read your post! It is so positive and encouraging!

 

Your date is RIGHT in what he says....

[Walking away]

Any man would be right about any ONE of us.

 

We ARE amazing. And we DO deserve the best. And I WILL keep reminding us of this!

 

Hugs Jessie.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

WA

[OzGirl]

Ok, well, it's after 9pm Sunday night here. I have GOT to post something.

 

This guy I saw on Friday night? Well, he didn't call me yesterday OR today. Now, okay, so he was busy.... let's all be REAL here... if he REALLY thought he was onto a 'good thing', he would have rung. No excuses!

 

So, now I'm pissed off, to be honest. I think, *great*... I really AM at the beginning of that road down life where I'm trying to re-establish where I sit in the whole 'man' situation.

 

Anyway, I sent him an email, and it was pretty up front. I probably scared him off, but I acknowledged that he's busy, and if he offered an inch, maybe that's all I'd take - I never did ask for a mile, so he ought to stop pre-empting that's what I'm after... GOD if he ONLY knew what you girls do... he'd know for sure I'm not about to get all needy on him...

 

ANYHOO... the reason I'm telling you this... well, for all it's worth, two things: 1:- I'm mildly pissed off at him... so guess what, I'm not pissed off with the MM, and he again, has taken another giant leap into the distant past... and 2:- yes, it's not like I can expect to go from one great love to the next, but I'm not giving up on the concept of "great love".

 

And, I don't expect any of you, too, either!

 

Am glad I never jumped in the sack with him after all, metaphorically speaking. You just can't tell, MM or not, how quickly and surprisingly the cards you are dealt can change, and not always for the better.

 

Ya see? This is where I think the beginning of me feeling "thankful" for the whole MM thing comes in. I'm wiser, stronger, and not about to wait around to see if I'm being used. Trust me on this, I haven't posted half of the story on the current man, so no, don't bother telling me I'm being harsh for expecting a phone call.

 

We had, by all that I saw, a really good night on Friday night. No phone call to follow it up isn't good enough in my books.

 

So, as Dr Evil would say, boo-frikkety-hoo for me. One down, and unknown amount to go... !

[movinon05]

WA, I'm absolutely thrilled for you! You deserve to feel great. You are an awesome woman.

 

And Ozgirl, I'm glad you're finding little positive things from your recent experiences. I know the feeling of rolling over and having some tears silently fall in the dark when you are with a new man. And it is a form of releasing the MM. Its like a resignation and you never thought you would be doing this. I'm glad you didn't let it go further with this new guy. You are very strong to do that. Not everyone could. So yes, you've had a learning experience.

 

You will find yourself comparing and you do have to realize as I did that Mr. Right is not going to necessarily be the next guy you meet or the next guy you date. The dating will get easier and you will feel, as WA felt, good about yourself when someone really shows an interest in you and treats you well. Its an aha moment.

[Walking away]

Ozgirl,

 

You are amazing, and ANY man who can't see it is a fool. There are wonderful men out there who will see the wonderfulness that is you and do everything in their power to make sure they never lose you.

 

And these days and bad experiences will be a distant memory for you.

 

Just watch and see.

 

I admire you and respect your judgement. Some man is going to be VERY happy that you are here on this earth.

 

Until then, know that we OW, exOW, and even BS are VERY happy that you are here on this earth for US.

 

Keep your chin up.

WA

[Jessie61]

Hugs Jessie.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

WA

 

Thank you, WA! That is very kind of you!

 

And OzGirl, I agree with WA; you are very special and I, too, am grateful that you are here!!!

[zarathustra]

Ok, well, it's after 9pm Sunday night here. I have GOT to post something.

 

This guy I saw on Friday night? Well, he didn't call me yesterday OR today. Now, okay, so he was busy.... let's all be REAL here... if he REALLY thought he was onto a 'good thing', he would have rung. No excuses!

 

So, now I'm pissed off, to be honest. I think, *great*... I really AM at the beginning of that road down life where I'm trying to re-establish where I sit in the whole 'man' situation.

 

Anyway, I sent him an email, and it was pretty up front. I probably scared him off, but I acknowledged that he's busy, and if he offered an inch, maybe that's all I'd take - I never did ask for a mile, so he ought to stop pre-empting that's what I'm after... GOD if he ONLY knew what you girls do... he'd know for sure I'm not about to get all needy on him...

 

ANYHOO... the reason I'm telling you this... well, for all it's worth, two things: 1:- I'm mildly pissed off at him... so guess what, I'm not pissed off with the MM, and he again, has taken another giant leap into the distant past... and 2:- yes, it's not like I can expect to go from one great love to the next, but I'm not giving up on the concept of "great love".

 

And, I don't expect any of you, too, either!

 

Am glad I never jumped in the sack with him after all, metaphorically speaking. You just can't tell, MM or not, how quickly and surprisingly the cards you are dealt can change, and not always for the better.

 

Ya see? This is where I think the beginning of me feeling "thankful" for the whole MM thing comes in. I'm wiser, stronger, and not about to wait around to see if I'm being used. Trust me on this, I haven't posted half of the story on the current man, so no, don't bother telling me I'm being harsh for expecting a phone call.

 

We had, by all that I saw, a really good night on Friday night. No phone call to follow it up isn't good enough in my books.

 

So, as Dr Evil would say, boo-frikkety-hoo for me. One down, and unknown amount to go... !

OzGirl,

 

I am so amazed at your strength and you and many others inspire me. It is funny how similar my M is compared with those around me. For some reason, a lot of Ws feel taken for granted after 'the honeymoon is over' and there are lots of men who don't realize that Ws are unhappy. He also noticed I am reading "Why men love bitches" (thanks WA for the recommendation) and we talked about how because I want people to like me all the time, that I am willing to go the extra mile. Sometimes when people makes light of things or is disrespectful, then it trivializes all the effort into being nice. I didn't say it was my MIL but really I feel like she treats me like a doormat sometimes. So I am reading that book for two reasons. How to treat my H and how to treat my MIL. From now on, MIL will have to earn every nice thing I do for her. H too.

[OzGirl]

Hi all, well, he did finally ring late Monday night, but didn't at all seem to say "thanks for a good night on Friday".. etc.. so *bleh* whatever, this one can slide away into the sunset. I'm sure he'll have some buddies there to keep him company as I let others slide away, too.

 

What I find is meeting people is the hard part. Where oh where have all the tall, dark, handsome, witty, intelligent, passionate, confident SINGLE men gone??!!! As I get older I believe they get snatched up.

 

I have a friend who's in her 80s and she said the shame about divorce is you end up with, and I quote, "...someone else's second-hand s***...". Is she right???!! Even worse, is that what I am???!

 

Well, I have a theory... if you want a handyman, hangout at the hardware store... if you want a cook, hang out at the grocery store.... maybe I have to assess what I'm looking for first?

 

If only there was a hardware store that sold groceries, designer menswear for the extra tall and muscular man, with a small book shop selling books on how to save our planet from destruction, with a jewellry shop attached also where they can get advice on how to select that perfect diamond-encrusted friendship ring for your girlfriend.

 

Yeah, think I'm onto something here... new business idea!

[movinon05]

I too am not in a position to meet men. Although some well meaning friends suggested some guys, but - No thank you!!

 

I went to an online dating site. And most of the men were terrific. Its just weeding out what YOU want and what YOU need in your life. And you'll learn that by how these men treat you.

[Jessie61]

 

I have a friend who's in her 80s and she said the shame about divorce is you end up with, and I quote, "...someone else's second-hand s***...". Is she right???!! Even worse, is that what I am???!

 

 

OzGirl,

 

You do make my giggle sometimes...

 

Anyway, I know how you feel! I always used to say "What's wrong with HIM?" about a person who in his 30's was still single, until I realised that I was in my 30's too, still very single!!!

 

And, NO you are not "second else's second hand sh*t"!!!! Far from it!!!!

[zarathustra]

OzGirl,

 

You do make my giggle sometimes...

 

Anyway, I know how you feel! I always used to say "What's wrong with HIM?" about a person who in his 30's was still single, until I realised that I was in my 30's too, still very single!!!

 

And, NO you are not "second else's second hand sh*t"!!!! Far from it!!!!

 

Isn't there a saying that someone's trash is someone else's treasure?

 

OzGirl, you are a massive gem! Better than the hope diamond.

[Blind Illusion]

I don't really have anything that awe inspiring to add to this but I don't want this thread to die either. I think this is a very powerful thread and a reminder of everything outside the whole MM thing.

 

I have been caught up in a lot of end of year activities so I am just checking out some posts now that I may have missed (Ozgirl you had me smiling with your post about where to find men)

 

One thing I noticed is that because I am so last minute with things, I have spent the last week doing things I had committed to and didn't have the time to worry about MM and his calls, or lack of them. The problem is that a lot of this activity was fundraising and volunteer work and to be honest, this alone does not fulfill me. I know some parents seem to do EVERYTHING for the school and seem genuinely content to play the whole

PTA Mom role. I probably do more than my share by setting up a lot of these things but this could never be enough for me.

 

It's hard to explain. I feel good accomplishing something but it's not enough. Still, I am not sitting around mulling or worse yet, sleeping and avoiding thinking. I'm trying to be part of life, even if its a life without the MM.

[OzGirl]

BI - Maybe you should set aside some time (at night is best I think) to work on changing things inside you, too.

 

I know I've changed a lot of the environment around me, the motions of what I do each day, and yes, it's a huge sense of achievement. It gives me something to look at - evidence I'm not milling around doing nothing and wallowing in a stagnant pond of "what do I do".

 

And, I don't mean time for you by just thinking about things that have happened, but rather, thinking about yourself, and why you have the values, morals, thoughts, reactioins (emotionally), etc, to lots of things in your life.

 

It's not just books on infidelity I've read. I've read books about addictive personalities, whether humans are supposed to (through natural evolution) be moral animals, body language, self-perception vs external perception of ourselves, better money management.... all that sort of thing.

 

I was actually thinking of whether it would be a worthwhile exercise to offer to send via post some of my books to people here, but the cost of mailing them back to me would probably exceed the cost of the book to buy anyway (lol).

 

I just seem to read things to satisfy my curiosity. I recently, for example, bought a book on how to write screenplays. I don't know if I want to actually write one, but it was fascinating to see how writing character-driven stories as apposed to plot driven stories puts you in that place of asking 'what would the character do', rather than 'what's the next event in my story'. Along the way, I'm re-discovering things about myself.

 

Even just posting in LS - my feelnigs are coming out, and they're evolving, and I'm gaining trust in my instincts again. Trust in people again. Forgiveness for what's happened. I'm not just waxing lyrical for the sake of it. I really do look at my 'old' posts and see how I'm developing a new set of standards for myself and forgiving myself for expecting more in some ways, and giving less in others.

 

It's re-gaining ownership over what's mine to keep - my heart, my soul, my laughter, my tears, my trials, my tribulations, you name it - it's not up for grabs for the first taker anymore. My interest is in my personal discovery, not just the tangible "evidence" I'm a success. My success is, to most people I'm sure, not all that interesting. But, too me it is. And, all that tangible evidence that impresses people - well, it just says a lot about how they define me, I guess. That's not really something that phases me.

 

I have a friend who recently admitted to me she was feeling a bit sad and lonely, so she rang home phone from her cell phone, and left herself a message saying something like "hi, just ringing to say I miss you and I hope you come out of that hidey-hole and grace the world again". She said it made her feel good about helping someone else get motivated to feel better, and it made her giggle (and feel a bit better) to get home and have a message on her phone from someone who missed her. She said it felt good because it was just her way of exercising her head's ability to take control and know what needed doing, and let her heart feel like her head was looking after it.

 

Okay, so she's been locked up in a padded cell for a few years...lol just kidding... I'm just saying, find some things to do for yourself internally. Challenge yourself and question your values and boundaries. You might not change much, you might change a lot, but the exercise of doing that is a self-discovery that checks where you are at this point in life.

[OzGirl]

I have to add... I realised something today... I really do feel like it's HIS loss (the MM), not mine.

 

I haven't thought that for a long time, only lately. And, you know, it's like it was when I first met him in a way.

 

When I met him, I was bouncing-off-the-wall confident, and truly thought (maybe this sounds conceited) it's his gain for being part of my life. Afterall, I'm a good person underneath it all - anyone should, in theory, act like he did when we first met - all keen and excited to see me....

 

Well, the advantage now is I feel the same way, but am not so worried if other people are immediately around to re-inforce it for me. AND... well, I can rule out the MM situation for the rest of my life. Been there, done that, and can say the pain was greater than any pain of having to walk away from someone new (no matter how attracted to them I might be or vice versa) should they be already attached.

 

I'm literally waiting for the next big challenge. I don't know if it will be work-related (I feel like I've exhausted how much more skilled I want to be for what I do), or a personal relationship, or maybe something else.

 

I sold a painting on ebay a long time ago and even my mother said "wow, people will buy any old s*** on ebay"...lol... *thanks mum*. Maybe I could get into painting and see if it's viable... I don't know. But, opportunities have to be created if I want to have them.

 

Anyway, I digress. Back to my original point. I used to think if I ran into the MM again sometime in the future, or if he ever wanted to see me again (ie, if he got divorced), I would do it. And, I used to live in hope that whilst I could 'kill time' seeing another man, he is who I am waiting for. But, now, I really do think if I saw him again, at the rate I'm going with my lack of need or care for him, if he wanted to see me, I'd just say no.

 

I hope people who are stuck somewhere in between the trap of being with a MM and absolute freedom from him and the situation can have hope. I used to read other people's stories and think how lucky they were to be able to move on... if ONLY they'd had something as special and unique as my MM and I had, maybe it wouldn't be so easy. It felt impossible.

 

It's not. But, no one else can do this for you. It takes time, and effort, and it's a stop-start road. Even if you feel the road leads to nowhere...nowhere is somewhere without a name... yet.

[eyeswideshut]

Hi Ozgrrrl,

 

I feel the same, I think.

I mean, I am trying to do so many things right now, and I wonder if being in a relationship right now would add to it or stop me from doing my things.

I love to come home and then discipline myself into practicing my piano, ballet, other dance moves (lol), writing, reading, just basically learning all I can in this lifetime.

I speak with "the marrieds" once in while, and some of my co-workers really envy me, because their time after work is spent cleaning up after the children, nagging and basically being captain at the helm of a dysfunctional household. And we're supposed to buy into the notion that that is what life is and what we are waiting for?

My MM spoke to me last night, and though i think his excitement in speaking to me (my answering machine, I didn't pick up, of course, I don't do well with two days of actual voice-to-voice in a row)

I was realizing that he's probably just sick of the married life, and the reason we both get along so well is because we actually don't really believe in it.

It's a very odd concept. It's great to be in love, but to live with someone like an inmate? eeesh.

Anyway. I got to thinking that maybe if I was living with MM, gone would be the days of email surprises, sending romantic songs, the odd phone cal, the odd date.... and it's sad to think this way. Esp. since i really love this guy!!

 

I have a co-worker who is an inspiration. She's been with her husband for 17 years and she still loves kissing him and jumping him.

And I said: that exists??

and she said: oh yeah when you've got the right chemistry.

Well, when I told my married man that in 7 years we'd probably be celebrating our 7 year itch, (he and I both broke up with our SO's after 7 or 8 years... except he decided to try to work things out with her)

and he said: but the thing is, I think I'd still want to kiss you after 7 years.

oh, do I ever want to see that happen.

Well.

I wonder if "having a lot in common" actually prolongs relationships or whether it has the opposite effect.

He's a writer too, loves foreign films, loves reading, is a musician. Maybe if we lived together we could do those things together and be blissful.

But then again.

what is the point of my post. I don't know. My best friend who is also a married man, tells me that according to what he knows of me and this guy, my MM will leave her by July.

(great, now he gives me hope, when his job was to talk me out of it.)

Do you think our friends can really predict our predicaments? All my friends who've been in similar situations tell me that in no time I will get the guy. Why do they keep telling me this?

I'd rather not be told this so that I can (as movinon would say) deflate my ego and move on....

lol:rolleyes:

[Walking away]

I've seen that kind of love that you speak of.

 

That love that is timeless and everlasting and unconditional.

 

And, I told my mom years ago....If I can't have THAT kind of love, I don't want ANY kind of love.

 

And, that is why I am alone for now. I won't settle for less than THAT kind of love.

 

Ever.

[Guest]

I love to come home and then discipline myself into practicing my piano, ballet, other dance moves (lol)....

 

Have you tried incorporating 'spirit fingers' into your dance moves? I don't think a good routine can exist without them...

 

 

Do you think our friends can really predict our predicaments? All my friends who've been in similar situations tell me that in no time I will get the guy. Why do they keep telling me this?

 

I don't know. I mean, my friends thought MM and I were made for each other - we bought out the best in each other. They'd never seen me so happy and healthy, so assumed it was a sure thing.

 

Even when I told my sister about his W finding out and him staying with her, my sister burst into tears saying "but he loved you". She was totally shocked. We'd been to her house and had a fantastic time (best time I've had in years) with her and her husband. He was, by all accounts, my partner, and warmly embraced by my family. His lovely nature soon earnt him their respect. How wrong they feel they were, as well as how I felt when it suddenly stopped.

 

Your friends say you'll get the guy. I don't know... I mean, I don't want to stop you feeling good, if that's how you feel. But, my honest opinion is if his marriage was only routine and being nagged at, etc, then he'd leave it - not because of you, but because he doesn't want it anyway, and he would know that by doing so, he is making himself available for something better.

 

But, you know, I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. We all have the right to make our own choices, and all I can say is, if you're happy, then great. But, if you're wanting more.... well, it's the first step in the inevitable happening sooner or later. If you keep pushing the point for more, it will make or break your relationship.

 

Either way, the truth shall set you free. And, trust me, freedom from 'hope' is what we all deserve. We deserve to 'know' and not to keep 'hoping'. I know it sounds silly because the word 'hope' is associated with so many great things. But, maybe it's my personality type - who knows, but when it comes to my life and what I'm doing in it like where I live, who I live with, what I do, etc... I don't want to sit around wondering when it's going to happen, if at all.

 

In the meantime, regardless of where your situation is heading, there's no harm in you keeping 'busy' and continuing to assess who you are inside, what you want, what you will settle for, etc. You have to like yourself to respect yourself, and you can't do either of them until you know yourself. It's often not until something throws us out of kilter we learn something new about ourselves, but YOU have control over that. You can always make a change, bit or little, in your life, and test your theories before the 'event' versus what you actually do.

 

Like that ol' line... 'if my husband cheated on me, I'd kick his sorry ass out to the curb...'.... Oooooohhhh Reeealllly... until the W is in that situation is that theory truly tested.

 

Best of luck - keep us updated

[movinon05]

Ozgirl, those were extremely inspirational posts! Good for you and good lessons for us to learn and try to accomplish in our own lives.

[OzGirl]

That last post by 'guest' was me... forgot to sign in. *DOH*

[Jessie61]

That last post by 'guest' was me... forgot to sign in. *DOH*

 

OzGirl,

 

I actually "suspected" that it was you!!!!!