revenge affairs

[JustJoe]

this is a question both for you and for the OP...

 

if the betrayed spouse feels such a sense of anger towards their spouse who cheated that they feel the need to purposely go out and hurt them then why stay married at all...why not simply divorce... why the need to purposely be cruel

Sorry I'm late in responding. His wife's affair was deliberately cruel, don't you think? Why should he be held to a higher standard? She cheated, so now it should be all about him and his kids, her wants and needs should be considered last. If the OP feels the need to punish her, and regain some pittance of self worth, then he should do so. Like I said, there are plenty of women out there , who will F**k him , with no strings attached, so there is no need for him to mislead an honest woman looking for a relationship.

[JustJoe]

BH, be honest with your lids, but don't go into details. They will find out soon enough what happened. One thing that will ease their worries, is if you BOTH present a United Front and reasure them that BOTH of you love them and will protect them, regardless of what happens.

[findingnemo]

Sorry I'm late in responding. His wife's affair was deliberately cruel, don't you think? Why should he be held to a higher standard? She cheated, so now it should be all about him and his kids, her wants and needs should be considered last. If the OP feels the need to punish her, and regain some pittance of self worth, then he should do so. Like I said, there are plenty of women out there , who will F**k him , with no strings attached, so there is no need for him to mislead an honest woman looking for a relationship.

 

Joe,

 

BH having a revenge A will not help him in any way. He would need to replicate what his WW did. Was she having ONS'? Also what is this about her wants and needs should come last? That's a recipe for disaster!! That's what you do if you don't want to have a real R with your spouse.

 

BH, it sounds like a separation will do you some good. At least it will give you the sense of doing something for YOU as well as time away to know what your heart really wants. IRL, most couples stay together after d-day where I'm from but the resentment just ensures that things will never be the same again. Because Ds are frowned upon, we have a lot of sad and bitter people walking around and living like zombies. It's no good to do something out of fear or because of some unseen force. Rather you take time apart and when you make a decision to reconcile, you do it with one heart.

[frozensprouts]

Sorry I'm late in responding. His wife's affair was deliberately cruel, don't you think? Why should he be held to a higher standard? She cheated, so now it should be all about him and his kids, her wants and needs should be considered last. If the OP feels the need to punish her, and regain some pittance of self worth, then he should do so. Like I said, there are plenty of women out there , who will F**k him , with no strings attached, so there is no need for him to mislead an honest woman looking for a relationship.

 

in my humble opinion, there is a difference between the two.

 

one of the biggest reasons for him cheating was two hurt her. it may have been wrapped in nice words and platitudes, but it was there. His cheating was coldly and logically planned out, step by step, as a way to inflict pain on his wife and get revenge, which you feel are valid reasons to cheat.

 

But take a look at it from her perspective. all we have from this guy is his own story...maybe he was a total ass to his wife, maybe he ignored her, maybe she thought he had cheated, maybe he was abusive. Maybe he made her feel really bad about herself. We dont know. The thing is we dont know what her reasons ( excuses) are, but why are his excuses to cheat any more valid than hers...here she is, a lady who knows she did something horrible and is trying really hard to make things right, and he goes and cheats on her and them blames her for making him do something against his nature...

 

 

i dont think that cheating in either situation is excusable,nor should it be endorsed

 

at any rate, that doesnt matter very much now. he wants to separate, and maybe that is the best thing for now, as he still seems really angry and needs some time to figure out what he wants... i totally agree with you that they need to present a united front to their children on this issue and make it as easy for them as possible. to bad more men and women didnt think like you do on that subject

 

(please excuse my lack of punctuation in this post... something i did made my laptop keyboard function as a french language keyboard and i need to figure out how to fix it...

[2sunny]

i'd like to ask what your INTENT is in separating?

 

if you separate - what is your intent? what will YOU be accomplishing while you are on your own that YOU can't accomplish while in the marriage?

 

where will YOUR time and energy be focused ---> how do you expect to accomplish what you seek?

[BetrayedH]

i'd like to ask what your INTENT is in separating?

 

if you separate - what is your intent? what will YOU be accomplishing while you are on your own that YOU can't accomplish while in the marriage?

 

where will YOUR time and energy be focused ---> how do you expect to accomplish what you seek?

 

To face my fear of loneliness. To explore what life might look like on my own. How would I make it work? To then decide if I want to reconcile or divorce instead of staying as the default and just tolerating that this has happened to me. Zombie is a good description of my mental state. It has to change.

[2sunny]

To face my fear of loneliness. To explore what life might look like on my own. How would I make it work? To then decide if I want to reconcile or divorce instead of staying as the default and just tolerating that this has happened to me. Zombie is a good description of my mental state. It has to change.

 

ok then - DO that...

 

be sure not to "get distracted" by "outside influences" while you are finding your way through the fear.

 

stay on path - until you understand what "no fear" looks like... then make a decision based on a healthy you.

[JustJoe]

Nemo. Of the three dynamics, 1. the kids needs 2. his needs 3. her needs, hers should be considered last, because she was the first to put the marriage in jeopardy.

[JustJoe]

Sprouts, I am basing my opinion on the information that the OP has provided. It may be true that he was not an ideal husband, but that is no excuse for an affair, it is an excuse for divorce.

[dprtman09]

Some background info...

 

The OW knows my situation. I haven't lied to her. She is in a M that is ending. We met on Ashley Madison as I looked for my "balance" affair.

 

But it took some time for our schedules to connect and an emotional connection developed. When things began in the hotel, I stopped her and said that this could only happen once. It wasn't a planned conversation. She said ok. I continued and said that I would understand if she didn't want to continue. She thought for several moments and said goodbye. It wasn't fun for either of us. I later sent a message trying to repair the damage I'd done. She was grateful that I hadn't just used her and told her afterwards; that she would have been devastated. We foolishly decided to remain friends (God, have I learned nothing from all of this?). She even broke it off with me the next day so she wouldn't interfere with my attempts to repair my marriage but the sympathetic messages back and forth continued. We met for lunch the other day. One kiss before we got into our cars and now we're back to sexual messages again.

 

Damn. I had the validation that I sought from someone that was into me on every possible level, I had stopped being so pissed at my W, and I even had my clean "out" afterwards without at least all of the super-dramatic mess and I blew it.

 

Yes, I understand I am a cheater. I'm afraid the nomenclature doesn't much matter to me. This would NEVER have happened if it weren't for my wife's affair. Sorry, that matters. And the fact that I stopped before carrying on a year-long physical affair, that matters, too.

 

I know what I have to do. I'll be breaking it off with her today. I think she knows it's coming. It'll be harder this time because she'll be left alone; it would have been so much better when she had broken it off with me. But it has to stop. There's no positive outcome. Either she is hurt by a short-term thing or I get sucked into a long term thing that will be the final death of my M (or all of the worse outcomes),

 

Will I tell my wife? It's a question for another day. I'm suspect I will eventually. It's who I am. I'll face my consequences.

 

I cetainly know what you're going through--in a manner of speaking. My W had an EA 3 years ago. She could not lie about its existence, but she lied for quite a while about it ending. It ended. Long story short, we have repaired our marriage through no small effort by both of us. The point: I have no desire to go through what we went through again no matter whose fault it is. If I stoop to the level of a revenge A. Then all of the principals that rebuilt our relationship would be useless. There is no justification for what is happening here. You have brought consequences upon yourself as evidenced by this diatribe. You know you are wrong. You know that if you tell your W, you won't have a leg to stand on when it comes to the issues of right and wrong in your relationship. You have compromised your right to bargain for your wife's trustworthiness. Good luck on that. Don't for one moment think that I don't have eyes of preferences when it comes to women It's just that I also know who is the ultimate woman and I don't need to spend the energy looking for anyone better. She's not out there. Can you say this?

[dprtman09]

I replied earlier without reading on. At this point, I can say I TOLD YOU SO!

Edited November 1, 2011 by dprtman09
misspelled a wodr!

[BetrayedH]

I replied earlier without reading on. At this point, I can say I TOLD YOU SO!

 

Congratulations.

[BetrayedH]

As for the children, we will most certainly present a united front. We'll emphasize that it's not their fault and that this was a mutual decision. No one gets the blame.

 

That's if it happens. I have twice faltered on leaving and said I would stay. It's heartbreaking for both of us. She disagreed; she doesn't want to do this again in weeks, months, or years. MC today so we'll revisit again.

[drifter777]

As for the children, we will most certainly present a united front. We'll emphasize that it's not their fault and that this was a mutual decision. No one gets the blame.

 

That's if it happens. I have twice faltered on leaving and said I would stay. It's heartbreaking for both of us. She disagreed; she doesn't want to do this again in weeks, months, or years. MC today so we'll revisit again.

 

I have always wished that I would have left after d-day so I could have made decisions without being influenced by my wife, my love for my son, and my desperate attempt to pretend it didn't happen. So I understand your desire to get away from those influences and make your decision based on what you really want to do. I'm sure Owl knows some statistics regarding separation & divorce, but I'd point out that each person and circumstance is different meaning that you are not simply a statistic.

[frozensprouts]

She should get the blame because it's obviously her fault.

 

She had the affair.

 

Part of the consequences is she takes the blame for the destruction of the marriage.

 

She earned it.

 

You're not "protecting" the kids by lying to them about what a toxic woman their mother is.

 

 

but it doesn't sound as if their mother is "toxic"...

 

should every dad who ever cheated have his kids told what he did? what about every mom?

[frozensprouts]

I apologize if I misread the thread.

 

I thought the marriage was ending because OP's wife cheated on him.

 

The children should not be lied to to protect the feelings of the cheater.

 

the original post was that the wife cheated, and then he cheated too.

 

but i don't think that either is "toxic"

[BetrayedH]

An update...

 

After seriously facing separation, my wife has made increasing efforts (including some sacrifices she couldn't agree to prior). It was enough that I agreed to stay. We'll return to a more traditional approach to R, including me being more honest about what I need. I was stuffing down everything just trying to get over it. Didn't work and nearly led to disaster.

 

As for my own nonsense, I've maintained NC with the OW. It will remain this way. I am still wrestling with my own honesty about it. I get that others make no distinction between one type of cheating and another and that no affair is justified. It certainly simplifies things to say as much. In my mind, the whole sordid mess is far more complex and nothing near simple, regardless of how much our analysis tries to clean it all up. You can say betrayal is betrayal and that sure sounds nice and tidy. But there's a difference between one spouse who carries on a weekly physical affair for a year and the other who is broken and makes a desperate attempt to heal/retain sanity by having their own but stops short after 3 kisses. It's not simple. It's complicated. I'm not proud of myself but I am not as guilty in this situation. I didn't create this mess. I don't like PISD, I needed it to stop, and I wanted to stay married.

 

I know you only get "my" version but our was not a terrible marriage. Quite frankly, I'm a beta male. I've been the faithful, loyal, dutiful husband. In nearly 20 years together we hardly ever argued and we resolved the few we had quickly. There was no abuse. No addictions. We had the normal marital problems of being together a long time, having two careers, and two kids. I'm not saying she was perfectly happy and neither was I but she had an obligation to make a different choice. Instead, I've been paying for her choices ever since.

 

Regarding the kids, I've learned that younger children recover better, that the children will always blame themselves (and thus you must never blame them), and that their recovery is delayed when one parent is more to blame than another. So, we would have only told the children about growing apart/irreconciliable differences, etc and instead focused on it not being their fault.

[findingnemo]

Nemo. Of the three dynamics, 1. the kids needs 2. his needs 3. her needs, hers should be considered last, because she was the first to put the marriage in jeopardy.

 

Sounds ok. I thought you meant her needs shouldnt be considered at all.

[road]

but it doesn't sound as if their mother is "toxic"...

 

should every dad who ever cheated have his kids told what he did? what about every mom?

 

 

Yes.

 

Children can handle the truth.

 

The truth will enable the kids to process this affair. How it effectd their lives, and realize they did nothing to cause this. Them realizing is different then being told it was not their fault. Just being told something does not make a kid believe it is the truth.

 

"The mother toxic"?

 

Did the mother bring a poison into the marriage/family?

 

Yes.

 

Did the mother's actions harm the BH, family, kids?

 

Yes.

 

And, you ask if the mother was toxic.

[road]

Regarding the kids, I've learned that younger children recover better, that the children will always blame themselves (and thus you must never blame them), and that their recovery is delayed when one parent is more to blame than another. So, we would have only told the children about growing apart/irreconciliable differences, etc and instead focused on it not being their fault.

 

 

This is why I can't believe when people ask if revenge affairs are worth it.

 

Also you are not being honest to your children either.

 

You want them to grow up and be better or grow up to repeat the same mistakes that you and your WW made?

 

The truth ends the chain of affairs from generation to generation in families. The truth shows that affairs will not be tolerated. The truth shows that there are consequences to having an affair.

 

Lying about affairs only shows that there are no consequences for cheating. This lack of consequence is also the reason why WS's go on to have more affairs. It shows a weak spouse that will let the WS have their cake and eat it to.

[frozensprouts]

what if it were the father that cheated? ( he did too)... should his children also be told THAT, or is it all on the mother.

 

I abhor cheating ( my husband had an affair) and think it's wrong, but I also don't think that someone cheating makes them a horrible "toxic" person. my husband cheated, on he is as solider... by many of society's standards, "the best of the best", a hero, but he still has feet of clay.

 

You disagree, which i can understand, but look at it this way, if people are cheat are horrible and 'toxic" and their kids need to be told this so they don't blame themselves, the isn't the person too "toxic' to be around the children at all? shouldn't they, since they are so terrible, be barred form ever seeing their children again, lest some of their "toxicty" rubs off on them? Wouldn't this mean that, an awful lot of men and women who are otherwise good parents would never see their children again? wouldn't this mean that, in situations where both parents had an afafir, neither should have the kids?

 

your observation that the children ned to be told that one of the parents cheated seems to have more to do with punishing the spouse than it does with helping the kids through a difficult time.

 

why is it any more harmful to sit the kids down and explain to them that mom and dad feel that, for reasons that have abosolutely nothing to do with them , it best if they don't stay together right now? That they both still love them and want to be with them, that they will both always be there for them, that nothing will ever change that? Telling them " the marraige is over because mommy ( or daddy) couldn't keep it in his /her pants " seems tyo be unessarily cruel. it seems like a way for the betrayed spouse to exact part of their "pound of flesh" as punishment for the affair.

 

and before you tell me i don't know what i'm talking about, i do...i stayed with my three kids while their dad moved out to "figure things out" during the time he was cheating . I never once badmouthed him to my kids. For everything he might have been doing wrong, he was still a good dad who loved his kids. It was a horrible situation, I was sad all the time, my kids were devestated, but i honestly can't see how telling them that their daddy isn't here because he's out shacked up with his "other woman' would have many things any better... maybe it would have made ME feel better, but I'm a "big girl' and i don't need to feel better at the xpense of miy kids.

 

original poster...

 

good for you for taking the higher road with this....it will help your kids to know that , when it comes to them, you and your wife love them enough to put your issues aside to be there for them and help them through this tough time.

[Richard Friedman]

No surprise you are staying. You are a self-proclaimed beta after all. Answer this though. If you knew you had options and a bunch of quality women eager to date you, would you still be staying? Is fear of loneliness/lack of options one of the reasons? Surely you believe that after doing the right thing for so long, you deserve better than a woman who reserves her lust and sexuality for other men, who's probably never been that passionate about you? Be honest

[BetrayedH]

Although I had resolved not to do so, I recently realized that I would have left by now if my children weren't involved. I'm a fit and attractive 41 year-old. I could have a second life and would be a great catch. But the children and the uncertainty about how much this has changed my wife keeps me here. And fear.

 

My recent dalliance taught me that it wouldn't take long to find a woman that would be into me on every level. The OW was falling for me hard. Honestly, it was very reassuring and very healing but didn't answer the fundamental questions. Having one successful marriage and family was the pinnacle of my priorities in life. Seeing examples of successful R in much worse circumstances makes it very tough to give up that goal.

[2sunny]

How sad for your wife and M to know that you only stay because of your kids.

 

What happens when they get older...? Because it happens quickly and then they are off doing their own life...

[BetrayedH]

And how sad for me? At 17 years together. And two beautiful children? Really? Hell, I'm still in denial. I loved this woman and my kids with everything I had.