revenge affairs

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed...

this is all very depressing...

 

you say you cheated to "even the score"...do you feel you have done so? what if you haven't? will you feel justified in cheating again? where will it end? if you cheat again to feel better, does that mean she gets to cheat again too? round and round it goes.

 

i just hope you aren't blaming your wife for your decision to cheat and go againt your "moral fiber"...YOU decided to cheat- it is no different than any one else who cheats and rationalizes their decision based upon how they feel their spouse is treating them. You can't blame someone else for "making you do something that goes against your morals, values, etc." I would assume that when your wife was cheating, she probably had reasons that justified her cheating too ( at least to her)

 

if i were you, i would get some marital counseling and try and figure out how to mmove pst this with no more cheating by either one of you.

 

I won't be unfaithful again. Where yesterday was a nice foggy day of justification, I've spent today on a conscience overload. I had it coming. Regardless of any justification, this will be an obstacle to R. I will always question if I could have R without this happening. I've certainly felt what Drifter expresses, that I just needed to find anything to get out of the abyss. I didn't have the patience for time to play out. W sent me a loving message last night and today said that she's glad we're still together. But invariably this will create a distance. As Owl said, it's going to take more work now, not less. And thus, I still need to find patience. Regardless, I can tell you I won't be blaming or punishing my W. I'm sure this was a goal for my W but it's not an entirely selfish one. We both needed it to stop. We were getting nowhere.

 

As for counseling, we have MC tomorrow and we both have ICs. MC will be tough because my W doesn't want to know the outcome of my time away. Seemed like a good idea at the time but it's going to make being honest in MC (and otherwise) to be virtually impossible. Big elephant in the room. For those that still have any compassion for me, wish me luck. I'm going to need it.

[anne1707]

I won't be unfaithful again.

 

I am glad for your sake and your wife's that you recognise you too have been unfaithful

 

Where yesterday was a nice foggy day of justification, I've spent today on a conscience overload. I had it coming.

 

And this too is positive. Just as your wife needs to feel remorse for her actions, you do too

 

Regardless of any justification, this will be an obstacle to R. I will always question if I could have R without this happening.

 

The reconciliation process is brim full of if's and but's. What you both need to do is learn from what has happened (and how not to let it happen again)

 

 

I've certainly felt what Drifter expresses, that I just needed to find anything to get out of the abyss. I didn't have the patience for time to play out.

 

I don't condone what you did but I do understand that depth of pain

 

W sent me a loving message last night and today said that she's glad we're still together. But invariably this will create a distance.

 

The problem is that just as you needed reassurance regarding her feelings for you and that it was over between her and the OM, your wife will now need the same reassurance from you. You are both emotionally battered and bruised

 

 

As Owl said, it's going to take more work now, not less. And thus, I still need to find patience. Regardless, I can tell you I won't be blaming or punishing my W. I'm sure this was a goal for my W but it's not an entirely selfish one. We both needed it to stop. We were getting nowhere.

 

I'm afraid this is true but again at least you recognise this and that you can no longer punsh your wife for something you too have now done

 

 

As for counseling, we have MC tomorrow and we both have ICs.

 

Good

 

MC will be tough because my W doesn't want to know the outcome of my time away. Seemed like a good idea at the time but it's going to make being honest in MC (and otherwise) to be virtually impossible. Big elephant in the room.

 

This will be tough and painful. You just have to learn to leave whatever you talk about in MC behind you when you leave the counsellor's room. No recriminations, no mulling it over and getting yourself into knots. Hug each other and go home together.

 

 

For those that still have any compassion for me, wish me luck. I'm going to need it.

[frozensprouts]

I won't be unfaithful again. Where yesterday was a nice foggy day of justification, I've spent today on a conscience overload. I had it coming. Regardless of any justification, this will be an obstacle to R. I will always question if I could have R without this happening. I've certainly felt what Drifter expresses, that I just needed to find anything to get out of the abyss. I didn't have the patience for time to play out. W sent me a loving message last night and today said that she's glad we're still together. But invariably this will create a distance. As Owl said, it's going to take more work now, not less. And thus, I still need to find patience. Regardless, I can tell you I won't be blaming or punishing my W. I'm sure this was a goal for my W but it's not an entirely selfish one. We both needed it to stop. We were getting nowhere.

 

As for counseling, we have MC tomorrow and we both have ICs. MC will be tough because my W doesn't want to know the outcome of my time away. Seemed like a good idea at the time but it's going to make being honest in MC (and otherwise) to be virtually impossible. Big elephant in the room. For those that still have any compassion for me, wish me luck. I'm going to need it.

 

you have my best wishes for you and your wife to get through this...it's not going to be easy, but if you are both willing to work hard, you can get "to the other side":)

 

it sounds as if you are both willing to start at a place where you are both honest...that's a good start...and you sound like you are both owning your own choices, which is also good. It may take some time in marraige counseling to get all the issues "out in the open", but if you are both willing to hear some things you may not like, it can be done- liken it to getting a bad tooth pulled- hurts a lot before , hurts even more during, but afterward, things are sooo much better.

 

Just be prepared for the fact that it's going to take a while to get through it, and there will be ups and downs...try and be there to support each other through it. Don't push your feelings of anger, betrayal, hurt , sadness, etc. down- talk about them, work through them so they don't come back to "bite you in the butt" later:laugh:- you also have to allow yourself the happy feelings about your wife when they come- try not to let the bad ones drown them out ( i probably didn't word that right- maybe you know what i mean)

 

Someone told me once that if a marraige can survive infidelity and if both people are willing to work through their issues, a marriage can be much stronger than it was before...in my experience , that is true...with any luck ( and a lot of hard work on yourselves and your marraige) you two will someday be celebrating your golden anniversary happily together:)

[beforedawn]

Hello everybody, my wife and myself will be posting together and find all this very interesting since my brother in law is in the exact same position right now...

 

 

One question that puzzles us and has NEVER been asked or divulged by BH is how did he found out about the affair?

 

Did HE find out on his own and confront his wife OR did SHE confess to him about it???

 

-IT DOES MAKE A BIG, BIG difference

Edited November 16, 2011 by beforedawn

[drifter777]

Of course, but that truth doesn't matter to the person to whom you directed your post.

 

Maybe not, but I've always found Owl to offer thoughtful, helpful advice to BS's in crisis. And I rarely agree with everything he says. Certainly, he has a strong leaning toward reconciliation because it worked for him. We're all guilty of that type of thing because our experiences are what we know best. I would just like you to consider both sides and not brand everyone who doesn't agree with you as a worthless jerk. Nothing is ever black and white and I've found it usually pays off to try to see things from other peoples perspectives.

 

In this case, I really don't think Owl will disagree with the foundation of what I am saying, although he many never agree that the ends justify the means. He may be 100% convinced that OP did the wrong thing with his revenge affair, but I think he is broad-minded enough to agree that he could be wrong and that every case is different. I hope you will extend that same courtesy to me and others when we disagree or challenge your opinions.

[18Years2Late]

OP could have sex with 20 OWs and his wife still has no basis to criticize him for that. (Nor does anyone posting here.) She unilaterally decided she was O.K. with an open marriage, and had her fun. That's what she broke, and since she broke it, she she wants.

 

So when does her "basis" start?...on the 50th time?...or 51st?...are u keeping score him or should we?

 

BH...I still have compassion for you...everyone here is here for a reason...and it's not cause the triangle didn't stab us on the heart...I'm glad u see that your "time away" wasn't the be all end all that you thought it would be...we all learn from our mistakes...

[18Years2Late]

Hello everybody, my wife and myself will be posting together and find all this very interesting since my brother in law is in the exact same position right now...

 

 

One question that puzzles us and has NEVER been asked or divulged by BH is how did he found out about the affair?

 

Did HE find out on his own and confront his wife OR did SHE confess to him about it???

 

-IT DOES MAKE A BIG, BIG difference

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...but I believe he caught her...and I hear that does make difference...from what I've seen here...welcome to LS...

[BetrayedH]

Hello everybody, my wife and myself will be posting together and find all this very interesting since my brother in law is in the exact same position right now...

 

 

One question that puzzles us and has NEVER been asked or divulged by BH is how did he found out about the affair?

 

Did HE find out on his own and confront his wife OR did SHE confess to him about it???

 

-IT DOES MAKE A BIG, BIG difference

 

I discovered my wife's affair. It was not voluntarily disclosed. After 3 weeks of completely failing to understand why my wife might want to separate (a bombshell that she dropped on me), my gut was screaming and I placed a GPS in her car. The rest of that story is somewhat irrelevant.

 

You are correct that it is a factor. Some statistics that I read recently said that when an affair is disclosed, 70% of the couples remained together 2 years later. For those that were discovered, it drops to 35% and only half of those reported being happy. I was trying to be part of the 17.5%. But when you add in that it was also a LTPA and that she hid that she broke no-contact, I was starting to feel pretty hopeless. I wanted to believe her, and wanted to stay for that hope and for love and for a chance for my kids, but felt like I was losing all of my self-respect in the process. I wanted to do something for me, I wanted the external validation, I wanted the sexual fantasy, I wanted to not be angry anymore. I got those things and a bunch of crap neither of us needed with it.

[Owl]

Maybe not, but I've always found Owl to offer thoughtful, helpful advice to BS's in crisis. And I rarely agree with everything he says. Certainly, he has a strong leaning toward reconciliation because it worked for him. We're all guilty of that type of thing because our experiences are what we know best. I would just like you to consider both sides and not brand everyone who doesn't agree with you as a worthless jerk. Nothing is ever black and white and I've found it usually pays off to try to see things from other peoples perspectives.

 

In this case, I really don't think Owl will disagree with the foundation of what I am saying, although he many never agree that the ends justify the means. He may be 100% convinced that OP did the wrong thing with his revenge affair, but I think he is broad-minded enough to agree that he could be wrong and that every case is different. I hope you will extend that same courtesy to me and others when we disagree or challenge your opinions.

 

Drifter...I clearly have no grief with you, my friend.

 

You're right...we rarely agree completely on our support and advice here...but at the same time, you and I never "butt heads" because there's a level of respect between us, and at the bottom line you and I both are here to do the same thing...offer the best advice we can to other posters.

 

There are a number of long-term posters here with whom I don't agree with that I still respect and never have had any heartburn with.

 

I do NOT agree with what BH has done. He knows this...he knows full well that I'll post my thoughts and opinions on the subject...he's been here long enough to anticipate what responses he was going to get when he opted to post his "plans".

 

There have been no "viscious attacks" on my part, nor on his.

 

I'm planning on ignoring the hydra and letting him run his course until the mod ends up stepping in and banning this current incarnation, as he has all of the others.

 

As far as BH's efforts to reconcile...we'll see how that plays out.

[BetrayedH]

Drifter...I clearly have no grief with you, my friend.

 

You're right...we rarely agree completely on our support and advice here...but at the same time, you and I never "butt heads" because there's a level of respect between us, and at the bottom line you and I both are here to do the same thing...offer the best advice we can to other posters.

 

There are a number of long-term posters here with whom I don't agree with that I still respect and never have had any heartburn with.

 

I do NOT agree with what BH has done. He knows this...he knows full well that I'll post my thoughts and opinions on the subject...he's been here long enough to anticipate what responses he was going to get when he opted to post his "plans".

 

There have been no "viscious attacks" on my part, nor on his.

 

I'm planning on ignoring the hydra and letting him run his course until the mod ends up stepping in and banning this current incarnation, as he has all of the others.

 

As far as BH's efforts to reconcile...we'll see how that plays out.

 

I hate that we're even entertaining this conversation but for the record, there was no offense taken for your viscious attacks, Owl. We all know how bitter you are.

 

As for my return home, no new locks on the doors. Wife isn't home yet but is still giving ILYs on the phone. Not saying things won't go south, just that nothing has hit the fan.

[anne1707]

Owl. We all know how bitter you are.

 

As a fWS who found Owl's posts at my lowest points so supportive and gentle yet also tough and not accepting of excuses, there is no way I would ever describe him as bitter.

[2sunny]

I hate that we're even entertaining this conversation but for the record, there was no offense taken for your viscious attacks, Owl. We all know how bitter you are.

 

As for my return home, no new locks on the doors. Wife isn't home yet but is still giving ILYs on the phone. Not saying things won't go south, just that nothing has hit the fan.

 

it's interesting that you observe his posts as bitter - i don't. i view it as insightful and helpful to many... especially those who take his suggestions and make use of them - so not to cause more harm to self or others. hmmm

 

so now you tell your wife ILY - after betraying her - is THAT loving behavior?

 

your words and actions don't align at all.

 

say anything you want - you are both bringing negative behavior into this M - and it WILL go right along with what's in the mix.

 

you can't expect to get a chocolate cake by making a pot roast.

 

the behavior YOU TWO bring into this M - IS what it IS made of.

 

you have now added into the recipe and added amount of toxic - expect to be dealing with it. there's no way around it unless you are two people in such a strong state of denial that you don't realize reality.

[Steen719]

As a fWS who found Owl's posts at my lowest points so supportive and gentle yet also tough and not accepting of excuses, there is no way I would ever describe him as bitter.

 

^^^^^

Ditto...always a gentleman.

 

Good luck Nick. I guess can't agree with what happened, but I sure know how you felt (feel). I think you added a few feet to the climb, though. Long term marriage taking hits like this can make a person feel such despair )or I guess any marriage can that has to deal with the betrayal of infidelity).

 

Hope it works for you.

[bentnotbroken]

I guess I misread what BH meant. I thought what he said about being bitter with the smiley meant he was joking about Owl. I thought he was being sarcastic because of other posts about Owl's supposed rudeness.

[2sunny]

he betrayed himself.

 

he prided himself on his stellar integrity.

 

he changed that to bow down to a negative way of participation - some call it cheating - but not with his wife's permission.

 

it still changes his view of what he is - the core being inside of him.

 

he can now be proud to call himself a man who hasn't been faithful? i doubt it.

 

he cheated long before he asked for permission.

 

the one thing i do admire is he has now been willing to tell his W his truth... he wanted to BE with another woman and still stay married.

 

now he gets to have it the way he wanted.

[BetrayedH]

Forgive me. My comment about Owl was complete sarcasm. He's been with me since the beginning of this. He can say whatever he likes and it's never been viscious. If anything, his disappointment gave me the greatest pause. He's allowed to be frustrated.

 

As for my wife and I, I don't expect anyone will be able to understand. She's become somewhat religious thru this experience and I think she's left both judgment and forgiveness in God's hands. It's helped her move forward. I don't have such a basis and I found myself more resentful over time. The sexual piece was the thing I couldn't seem to get past. She knew it was my hang up since the beginning. She knew it tortured me and might be the end of us. She simply decided not to judge me for it and if it was what finally helped us to look forward to a better life, then so be it. She honestly seems at peace with it and really just doesn't need confirmation or details. I think she's learned far more about forgiveness than I ever did. As for me, I knew it would allow me to stop being so resentful and angry and in that regard, it worked. I have no long term attachment to the OW, nor her to me (again, I don't expect anyone here to understand but she and I talked about it for a month before it happened and it ended quite well). There may well be unanticipated repercussions and I am going to have my own demons with which to wrestle but getting yourselves popcorn is going to be a waste of your time. Perhaps over the long term we'll decide that the whole thing has just been too much.

 

But I also think there's a lot of denial going on here that perhaps a short-term , controlled affair following the initial affair might just have some healing benefit and not be as detrimental as what everyone likes to think. It violates your absolutes that affairs are never justified and that all types of affairs are just as bad as any other. I think it's amazingly complex and that this might work (for us). As Owl has said, we'll have to see how it plays out.

[beforedawn]

Well that settles it, me and the Boss (aka..faithful wife) have shaken our heads at little miss cover up. It is probably safe to assume that there was NEVER any intention of a confession to the husband in regards to the betrayal. Theres that "difference" we mentioned earlier...

 

The wife and I support what BH had to do in order to alleviate the suffering and total loss of control during this crisis. Quantumweapon has many valid points that he or she has brought up in regards to the wife and her actions.

 

For which we agree completely.

 

It is obvious that this "revenge affair" which by the way was NOT an affair by any sense of the word, was justified with a "means to an end" settlement in mind.

 

as for BH/Kidd, We both agree that you will have a much better chance at dealing with your issues since you went through with this, because now you have a sense of self worth and realize that you are not a doormat to ANYONE, EVER again...Good 4 U son

 

However Sir, you must now take the steps to make sure that your children know that whatever the outcome of this, Yourself and your wife will always be there for them because they are worth it and they will love you both even apart. ie...2 Christmases, 2 birthdays, etc...Just kidding

 

You and your wife granted you BOTH try to save this, must be supportive of each other, NO throwing "it" in each others faces, NO cold shoulders, and NO LIES of any kind...NC with the OM or OW and remember to sit down together, by yourselves and Laugh a little with each other, watch a comedy, cook up some mushroom tea, anything just to LAUGH with each other and we guarantee you will both feel better short term about a lot of things.

 

Long term aspects of trust and well being will come later if so desired...

 

We will post again later....THE BOSS may have a few words of wisdom for some of the XX chromosome Hypocrites that are posting on this....Oh ya, keep up the words of wisdom there Quantumweapon, my brother in law and I will be joining your cause REAL SOOOOON....hahahaha

[frozensprouts]

quantumweapon,

i know i shouldn't, but i just have to ask... what would you say if he were a woman who's husband had cheated? would we be hearing all this crap about "the alpha male"? would you be giving the samwe convoluted logic to her saying that he wants the "alpha female"?

 

piffle!

 

my humble advice to the OP would be for him and his wife to accept their past behavior ( this doesn't mean they agree with bit, or like it, but they accept that nothing they can do will change the past) and make a conscious choice to move past it... to find out why the affair happened ( and quantumweapon- i'll save you the trouble and say that it's not because she's a tramp) and use that as a starting point to make repairs.

 

It can take a long time, but eventually one has to let go of the pain and the anger-it's not easy- I had to remind myself of that today- i walked past the OW house ( i have to on my way back and forth to the grocery store) and i had to accept that it hurt, but then i let the pain go. It felt good.

[2sunny]

pulling oneself or others down to another level can never be a good outcome...

[despicableME]

Could it REALLY be considered an "affair," though? I mean, she KNEW about it, so how could this be considered an affair- in any sense- if she wasn't "in the dark" about it. Furthermore, I think she is pretty much over it, given the fact how deep and long hers' went on(meaning... it was NOTHING compared to her betrayal). To be honest, you only got a smidge of what she got out of it. I hope I'm not out-of-line here... I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you were trying to accomplish. If you really wanted to even the score, you'd kept it all secret; went along with it for as long as you could've; then told her you were seeking some form of retribution(payback) when it all came to a head... am I wrong for thinking this? Like I said, you really only had sex with someone just to spite her(your wife). Nothing was really gained, in my opinion. I guess if you feel it helped you though... more power to you. Doesn't make any sense???

[frozensprouts]

Could it REALLY be considered an "affair," though? I mean, she KNEW about it, so how could this be considered an affair- in any sense- if she wasn't "in the dark" about it. Furthermore, I think she is pretty much over it, given the fact how deep and long hers' went on(meaning... it was NOTHING compared to her betrayal). To be honest, you only got a smidge of what she got out of it. I hope I'm not out-of-line here... I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you were trying to accomplish. If you really wanted to even the score, you'd kept it all secret; went along with it for as long as you could've; then told her you were seeking some form of retribution(payback) when it all came to a head... am I wrong for thinking this? Like I said, you really only had sex with someone just to spite her(your wife). Nothing was really gained, in my opinion. I guess if you feel it helped you though... more power to you. Doesn't make any sense???

 

it seems that after he found out his wife had been in an affair. After he found out and they were trying to reconcile, he ( withouther knowledge) decided that he wanted to have an affair and he went on some website that specializes in peple wantimng to have an affair. He started talking with a woman and actually met her- even went as far as to purchase condoms and meet this lady in a hotel room, mde out but stopped before actual intercourse- his wife did not know about that. she knows about the most recent time he met the other woman.

[BetrayedH]

Could it REALLY be considered an "affair," though? I mean, she KNEW about it, so how could this be considered an affair- in any sense- if she wasn't "in the dark" about it. Furthermore, I think she is pretty much over it, given the fact how deep and long hers' went on(meaning... it was NOTHING compared to her betrayal). To be honest, you only got a smidge of what she got out of it. I hope I'm not out-of-line here... I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you were trying to accomplish. If you really wanted to even the score, you'd kept it all secret; went along with it for as long as you could've; then told her you were seeking some form of retribution(payback) when it all came to a head... am I wrong for thinking this? Like I said, you really only had sex with someone just to spite her(your wife). Nothing was really gained, in my opinion. I guess if you feel it helped you though... more power to you. Doesn't make any sense???

 

"Getting even" wasn't the objective. Causing her pain wasn't the objective. Even calling it a revenge affair was a misnomer. I couldn't wrap my head around why she got to have fantasies fulfilled with someone else and I had to not only have the pain of that being done behind my back but then have NO fantasy fulfillment of my own. Why did it have to stay 50 to 0? The deal that was on the table and enough for me to accept was a one-time pass. And I did get some fantasy fulfillment out of it. I'm not so damn jealous over it now. I do find it interesting how many times people would say, "Well, just ask for an open marriage then" yet in this one case there was a very brief agreement that brought some mutually acceptable sense of balance to the betrayed partner and there's little support (Drifter). Sorry, I don't count the hydra that has his own purposes.

 

I'm not terribly proud that it came to this. I wish I had been stronger but I'm not sure how many people have actually walked in my exact shoes and reconciled successfully. Maybe I'm wrong. It's definitely not the first time I've heard a wayward grant permission for a betrayed to have their own fling. Admittedly, it usually ends with, "It didn't help." In my case, I'm not so sure. The only place I've gotten moral outrage over it has been this forum. I'm not judging anyone for it and I can handle the criticism. Does this help it make any sense to you?

[BetrayedH]

pulling oneself or others down to another level can never be a good outcome...

 

I got honest (someone recommended I do that) and then, sure enough, got what I said I wanted. For sure, I wasn't strong enough to say, no thanks. I wish I had been but then I know I would've been pissed off and jealous for another say, 2-5 years. Would it have been worth that? I don't know. If my wife is broken as a result, it would've been better to do the long term work (or divorce). If we both manage to now move forward and put this sordid mess behind us, I'll be glad I suggested it.

 

Enough blabbering about it. The cards are dealt. I'm going to do the best I can with what I have. It was a desperate move in a desperate situation. I have nothing left but to hope it works and to make the best of it.

[BetrayedH]

Well that settles it, me and the Boss (aka..faithful wife) have shaken our heads at little miss cover up. It is probably safe to assume that there was NEVER any intention of a confession to the husband in regards to the betrayal. Theres that "difference" we mentioned earlier...

 

The wife and I support what BH had to do in order to alleviate the suffering and total loss of control during this crisis. Quantumweapon has many valid points that he or she has brought up in regards to the wife and her actions.

 

For which we agree completely.

 

It is obvious that this "revenge affair" which by the way was NOT an affair by any sense of the word, was justified with a "means to an end" settlement in mind.

 

as for BH/Kidd, We both agree that you will have a much better chance at dealing with your issues since you went through with this, because now you have a sense of self worth and realize that you are not a doormat to ANYONE, EVER again...Good 4 U son

 

However Sir, you must now take the steps to make sure that your children know that whatever the outcome of this, Yourself and your wife will always be there for them because they are worth it and they will love you both even apart. ie...2 Christmases, 2 birthdays, etc...Just kidding

 

You and your wife granted you BOTH try to save this, must be supportive of each other, NO throwing "it" in each others faces, NO cold shoulders, and NO LIES of any kind...NC with the OM or OW and remember to sit down together, by yourselves and Laugh a little with each other, watch a comedy, cook up some mushroom tea, anything just to LAUGH with each other and we guarantee you will both feel better short term about a lot of things.

 

Long term aspects of trust and well being will come later if so desired...

 

We will post again later....THE BOSS may have a few words of wisdom for some of the XX chromosome Hypocrites that are posting on this....Oh ya, keep up the words of wisdom there Quantumweapon, my brother in law and I will be joining your cause REAL SOOOOON....hahahaha

 

Why do I feel like the hydra just grew two new heads?

[Steen719]

Sorry, Kidd, I did not mean Nick....long, long day for me. I apologize.