revenge affairs

[Spark1111]

The idea was not to harm my wife but to do something for myself to get thru this. I never had any intention to tell her. I have seen her pain, caused enough of it and don't want to add to it. I wanted to find a way thru this and to stop hurting her and to get some balance into the situation. Call it what you like.

 

And again, I'm sorry but there is a difference between types of affairs. Much of the pain is the same and I don't mean to denigrate the pain of any BS but I can tell you I desperately wish my W's affair was a drunken ONS, not some calculated year-long, time managed, conscious betrayal.

 

If you want to vilify me, go ahead. I didn't ask for this damn mess. I didn't create this situation. I did what I needed to retain my freaking sanity. For six months, I lost my mind.

 

Me too. Almost lost my mind. Understand what you are doing, although I never did it myself despite opportunity to do so.

 

You are sufferring from resentment and a supreme blow to a healthy ego.

 

It is the "A" student mentality: I did everything right and STILL I did not get the "A." I got betrayed in the worst way possible.

 

You are jealous of your wife's affair: All that ego-stroking and hot sex and excitement while you were being the good, responsible, holding the fort husband and father.

 

I get this. The resentment, in addition to the betrayal, is a huge burden to work through.

 

Are you in IC? Because to have this adolescent act of rebellion speaks more to your Family of Origin issues than it does her affair. Did you always have to be the super responsible one growing up? Did you ever truly sow some wild oats? I suspect not.

 

In the very best marriages they honestly discuss their attractions to others (perfectly normal) and as a couple discuss ways to secure boundaries to preserve the marriage.

 

Imagine that?

 

You need to discuss your feelings, every day, with your wife and she needs to discuss her feelings with you. You need to turn toward each other, not away from each other to have needs met.

 

her betrayal speaks to her weak ego, lack of communication in what she needs from you, and conflict avoidance. She may be back in the marriage, but you two have rug-swept certain feelings and are STILL avoiding difficult issues. Like your resentment.

 

Get to MC, please. And stop seeking validation outside your marriage.

 

You will regret it, unless you separate from her and honestly tell her what you need or intend to do.

 

You cannot get your integrity back once you give it away friend. And that may plague you later on. I can almost guarantee it.

[Afishwithabike]

I don't have personal experience with infidelity, but it seems to me for a "revenge affair" to be a truly revenge affair you have to it Klingon style. "Revenge is a dish best served cold."

 

If you have a revenge affair now you're not getting the "benefits" your wife did in her affair - the fantasy, the intoxicating brain chemical rush, the longing, the emotional connection, the secret trysts, etc. You won't have any of it. You're coldly going into it for one thing - to get back at your spouse. You having an affair now isn't the same, not even the same, as what she did.

 

And before anyone gets on my case about what I'm about to say, I'm not advocating it but it's worth mentioning.

 

For a revenge affair to be truly revenge, you'd have to do it when she's the most comfortable and secure in the marriage. When she trusts you and loves you, if you cheat on her then she gets to feel what you felt when you discovered her affair. Anything other than that isn't going to "even" the score.

[2sunny]

Good post Spark! Covered a multitude of things that need to be addressed. Family of origin is a good place to start. You learned to be "the good boy" in your childhood and carried it into your M. Now you seem to want to be a bit defiant because you are hurt beyond belief! Good thing to tell your wife. May bring up an honest conversation with her... Try it. At least it may bring change in the doing!

[BetrayedH]

Me too. Almost lost my mind. Understand what you are doing, although I never did it myself despite opportunity to do so.

 

You are sufferring from resentment and a supreme blow to a healthy ego.

 

It is the "A" student mentality: I did everything right and STILL I did not get the "A." I got betrayed in the worst way possible.

 

You are jealous of your wife's affair: All that ego-stroking and hot sex and excitement while you were being the good, responsible, holding the fort husband and father.

 

I get this. The resentment, in addition to the betrayal, is a huge burden to work through.

 

Are you in IC? Because to have this adolescent act of rebellion speaks more to your Family of Origin issues than it does her affair. Did you always have to be the super responsible one growing up? Did you ever truly sow some wild oats? I suspect not.

 

In the very best marriages they honestly discuss their attractions to others (perfectly normal) and as a couple discuss ways to secure boundaries to preserve the marriage.

 

Imagine that?

 

You need to discuss your feelings, every day, with your wife and she needs to discuss her feelings with you. You need to turn toward each other, not away from each other to have needs met.

 

her betrayal speaks to her weak ego, lack of communication in what she needs from you, and conflict avoidance. She may be back in the marriage, but you two have rug-swept certain feelings and are STILL avoiding difficult issues. Like your resentment.

 

Get to MC, please. And stop seeking validation outside your marriage.

 

You will regret it, unless you separate from her and honestly tell her what you need or intend to do.

 

You cannot get your integrity back once you give it away friend. And that may plague you later on. I can almost guarantee it.

 

Lots of respect for your post. Spark. Insightful.

 

I am jealous and resentful. It doesn't much matter what she does; I can't get past it. She's done a lot. I'd put her in the 95+ percentile of remorseful spouses. She's doing everything perfectly now (well, almost). She frequently asks if it's something she's done if I'm visibly having a hard time. I'll always answer, "no," but what I really mean is, "not today." It just fu_king plagues me.

 

Yes, I've always had to be the responsible one. FOO issues is correct. Yep, I'm tired of it. I'd like to screw up and ask forgiveness for once.

 

I was very close to having a separation conversation last night. Ridiculously hard to do with all the efforts she's making. She asked me what I was thinking, wiping a tear from my eye. I told her I wasn't ready to talk about it. She said she would be here when I was ready. She asked what I needed in the meantime. I said she was already doing it. Then we had some passionate sex. Didn't go as planned.

 

Was going to explain that I need space to make a decision for myself. Up to now, every decision has been to save my marriage and preserve my family for my kids. I have also been afraid of an uncertain and lonely future. I was prepared to be honest about the OW although I won't be going back to her either way. Again, she needs something long term that I can't give whether I am married or not. I ended it early enough that the withdrawl only lasted the afternoon.

[BetrayedH]

We've in MC since Dday. She's been in IC since before Dday. I've had two ICs that I tried and they didn't seem to do anything for me (and my copays are very high). In light of recent developments, perhap I need to return.

[Spark1111]

The rule of thumb is to give an IC three visits only. After the third visit you decide if you click with the counselor and will continue. If not, move on to another. Same with MC. You both have to click and respect the counselor for it to be effective.

 

It is also important to provide them with all the info possible going on in your life so that they can help you. There is probably nothing they have not heard, but you personally need a rapport and you should be able to decide within 3 visits if you "click."

 

When you click, be brutally honest, as you have been here, about your feelings. There are no right or wrong answers or feelings.

 

You also need to tell your wife about your feelings of resentment. You need to share all your feelings with your wife, even the dark, and angry and painful ones. Do so as kindly as possible.

 

Recovering from an affair mirrors all the symptoms displayed by vets who have PTSD, and the stages are the same as any trauma: shock, denial, anger, depression, bargaining, and acceptance. Often these stages overlap and it is crazy-making for two to five years, and that is true whether you stay married to your spouse and successfully reconcile or divorce.

 

If you have FOO issues you have not dealt with, your recovery can be longer as an affair can trigger those childhood feelings. I know it did in me.

 

Take it one day at a time. And start talking....

 

Good luck.

[2sunny]

it would help if you could give your wife your honesty/your truth.

 

without her understanding how you feel - how can she help you to grow... and the M to grow to a healthy place.

 

it's not helping for you to stay silent when she's asking what she can do when she sees you in pain.

 

can you begin to open up and share with her how you have been feeling? tell her what you resent? tell her that you feel vulnerable just sharing how you feel with her because she has already harmed you in the biggest way she possibly could?

 

if and when you get back to counseling - you need to BE HONEST and open up to the counselor - they only work with what you give them - if you give them little info - they don't have much to help you with.

 

all in all - with yourself - your wife and the counselor - it time to start having a voice - speaking your truth!

 

the time is now. begin each day by acknowledging your feelings... then sharing them at least with your family members.

 

time to start practicing honest. leave the pretending out of it - THAT is the lie- and a cancer to any marriage.

[JustJoe]

BH, unlike the other posters, I say that if you need a revenge affair to regain your self-esteem, go for it! You have to live with what she did, but you don't have to take it lying down. I would NOT do it with a nice woman, but there are plenty of escorts and hookers and loose women out there so you won't be hurting someone who has meaning for you. My Mom had an affair on my dad, when I was in HS. She left with the OM . When she came crawling back begging for another chance, my dad accepted her, but told her up front, that she would be more like a maid than a wife , until he felt she could be trusted. He then went on to drink and f**k around, and anytime mom objected, he reminded her of what she threw away. Finally , after he had driven home that message, he stopped, they began to reconcile, and the rest is history. He once told her that there are no free passes. She had to work twice as hard to regain his bed and his trust, and so valued it much more than before her affair. Sometimes the medicine is hard to swallow, sometimes it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective. Do what YOU FEEL you need to do.

[anne1707]

BH, unlike the other posters, I say that if you need a revenge affair to regain your self-esteem, go for it! You have to live with what she did, but you don't have to take it lying down. I would NOT do it with a nice woman, but there are plenty of escorts and hookers and loose women out there so you won't be hurting someone who has meaning for you. My Mom had an affair on my dad, when I was in HS. She left with the OM . When she came crawling back begging for another chance, my dad accepted her, but told her up front, that she would be more like a maid than a wife , until he felt she could be trusted. He then went on to drink and f**k around, and anytime mom objected, he reminded her of what she threw away. Finally , after he had driven home that message, he stopped, they began to reconcile, and the rest is history. He once told her that there are no free passes. She had to work twice as hard to regain his bed and his trust, and so valued it much more than before her affair. Sometimes the medicine is hard to swallow, sometimes it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective. Do what YOU FEEL you need to do.

 

Joe - would you suggest something like this to a woman who had found out that her husband had an affair?

 

And sorry but this post shows such disdain for a woman who has an affair yet your wife was married when she me you and started her affair with you. Does she know how little respect you have for a woman who did exactly what she did?

[bentnotbroken]

Joe - would you suggest something like this to a woman who had found out that her husband had an affair?

 

And sorry but this post shows such disdain for a woman who has an affair yet your wife was married when she me you and started her affair with you. Does she know how little respect you have for a woman who did exactly what she did?

 

 

Really. Such disdain for a woman who he wanted. Or is just everyone except her?

[JustJoe]

My wife was a "trophy wife", in a loveless marriage, more of a business arrangement than a marriage. My Mom was a wife and mother with a husband overseas in the Army.....Huge, enormous difference. My Dad basically worshipped the ground my mom walked on, and my Mom apparently felt that she would always have him as a back-up, if the affair went south. My Dad's revenge affair did 3 important things; 1. it taught my mom that he was not her doormat, and that he could get another woman , easily. 2. It helped him regain his self-esteem 3. It went a long way towards proving that she was over the OM and was in the marriage for the long haul. If the OP still has resentment towards his WW,for her affair, perhaps he needs this as an expression of his independence and self-image. And yes, possibly to teach her a lesson that there are no free passes in life. Morality is subjective and I'm not about to say that my standards are the same as his or yours, for that matter.

[Owl]

BH...so I guess here's my question...what's your PLAN from here?

 

What's your goal...what's your plan...and what are your immediate next steps as part of implementing that plan?

[frozensprouts]

My wife was a "trophy wife", in a loveless marriage, more of a business arrangement than a marriage. My Mom was a wife and mother with a husband overseas in the Army.....Huge, enormous difference. My Dad basically worshipped the ground my mom walked on, and my Mom apparently felt that she would always have him as a back-up, if the affair went south. My Dad's revenge affair did 3 important things; 1. it taught my mom that he was not her doormat, and that he could get another woman , easily. 2. It helped him regain his self-esteem 3. It went a long way towards proving that she was over the OM and was in the marriage for the long haul. If the OP still has resentment towards his WW,for her affair, perhaps he needs this as an expression of his independence and self-image. And yes, possibly to teach her a lesson that there are no free passes in life. Morality is subjective and I'm not about to say that my standards are the same as his or yours, for that matter.

 

this is a question both for you and for the OP...

 

if the betrayed spouse feels such a sense of anger towards their spouse who cheated that they feel the need to purposely go out and hurt them then why stay married at all...why not simply divorce... why the need to purposely be cruel

[BetrayedH]

BH...so I guess here's my question...what's your PLAN from here?

 

What's your goal...what's your plan...and what are your immediate next steps as part of implementing that plan?

 

We have MC on Wednesday. I am trying to grow the balls it will take to tell her that I need to separate from her for a while. I need to take time to decide what I want to do. Everything that has been done so far has been done in fear of losing my wife, kids, house, etc.. I feel like I now need to decide what I want from life. To try being on my own. To make my own decision to come back or not. Also to send a message that I'm not a doormat; I won't take this again. I'm hesitant to separate from a very remorseful wife who is working hard to make amends. I'm afraid to sabotage it but again, tired of making decisions based on fear. I guess I also want to see her response. If she says she's done, that will say everything. I don't know much about trial separations. I just know something has to be done with my bitterness and jealousy. I've sucked it up but can't seem to swallow it.

[Owl]

If that's your plan...then file for divorce.

 

Trial seperations do NOT rebuild marriages.

 

Seperating from each other doesn't reinforce your relationship...it tears it down.

 

Nothing wrong with divorcing...if that's your goal, then there ya go. If your goal is to "give our marriage a chance"...seperation is NOT a step on that path.

[BetrayedH]

Appreciate the direct reply.

 

Have some more thinking to do...

 

All the angles seem to result in one of three options: 1. Lose 2. Lose or 3. Lose

[frozensprouts]

Appreciate the direct reply.

 

Have some more thinking to do...

 

All the angles seem to result in one of three options: 1. Lose 2. Lose or 3. Lose

 

 

perhaps one of the options may be a short term loss for a long term gain...

[Owl]

So...spell out those "angles"...and what leads you to view them all as losses.

[2sunny]

We have MC on Wednesday. I am trying to grow the balls it will take to tell her that I need to separate from her for a while. I need to take time to decide what I want to do. Everything that has been done so far has been done in fear of losing my wife, kids, house, etc.. I feel like I now need to decide what I want from life. To try being on my own. To make my own decision to come back or not. Also to send a message that I'm not a doormat; I won't take this again. I'm hesitant to separate from a very remorseful wife who is working hard to make amends. I'm afraid to sabotage it but again, tired of making decisions based on fear. I guess I also want to see her response. If she says she's done, that will say everything. I don't know much about trial separations. I just know something has to be done with my bitterness and jealousy. I've sucked it up but can't seem to swallow it.

 

life is not meant to be lived out of fear...

 

seems you don't give your wife YOUR truth. start changing that. YOU are capable of providing her with REAL feelings (YOURS) real information. no more pretending.

 

what would that look like?

 

i'm unsure what this "trial separation" is supposed to provide to you... please explain the benefit of a trial separation.

 

what are your motives/intent? be honest here... we can't help if you aren't honest.

[2sunny]

interesting post in another thread...

 

 

Cheaters are controllers. Plain and simple. I know I was trying to control my W when I had my revenge EA. (I'm still glad I decided to end it and come clean). Anyway, I recently uncovered some more crap about my wife's year long EA/PA which apparently was NOT over this summer like I was led to believe. The lies never stop. And it got me thinking about affairs again and how they are all about CONTROL.

 

Look, the marriage was "over in your heart"? You found someone you were more compatible with? Fine and dandy, life happens. But just tell me as much and let me make my own decisions. Ah, but that's just the point isn't it? You don't want me to be able to make my own informed decisions because they might adversely impact you. You want to control what I think and what I do, so you can have your cake and eat it too! (Hey that's a great rhyme!)

 

Seriously cheaters, if you want someone else, what on earth is stopping you from just coming out and saying so? Let's examine some common excuses:

 

1) If I tell my wife, she'll be really angry.

Oh I see Mr. Cheater, so you think you should be in charge of what your wife gets to feel? You get to decide if she should be allowed to be angry or not? Must be nice to own someone's emotions.

 

2) If I tell him, I won't have any way to support myself.

Wow Mrs. Cheater, must be great to be married to an ATM. So what you're saying is that you own him. You get to decide if he should or shouldn't keep paying all the bills, regardless of what you're choosing to do. You get to control his actions and his choices. It's OK for you to run around on him, but it would NOT be OK for him to stop paying your bills. Must be nice to be more important than other people.

 

3) If she finds out, she'll leave with the kids and I won't get to see them as much.

Oh I see Mr. Cheater, so you own your wife's choices now. You get to have everything you want, just as long as she doesn't get to have a mind of her own. But then it wouldn't be fair for you to lose time with your kids. After all, what right does someone have to withhold something that should be yours? Oh wait....

 

4) If I tell the OM I'm still sleeping with my husband, he won't want to have sex with me any more.

Neato, Mrs. Cheater! Not only do you have some hot action on the side, you actually get to control and own his body! You get to decide whether he should want to have sex with you or not, and you get to manipulate the situation so that it's assured he will want to. Ironically, I bet you've told your OM at least once that you felt like your husband was just using you for sex....

 

5) I can't come clean. If my family and/or friends found out, they'd be really upset and they'd judge me.

Well hot dang! Not only are you so super special that you have the right to control you spouse and your OP, you also have the right to control your friends' and family's beliefs, thoughts, and feelings! It must be so awesome to be someone so important like you. You should get to control how other people view and perceive you, and how they act towards you.

 

6) I can't be honest with them because I'm confused. I want the OW in some ways, but I still want my wife sometimes too. And if I tell the truth, neither of them may want me in the end.

Holy chili cheese fries Mr. Cheater, you must be more freaking important than the President! Your needs are so immensely important that you should get infinite time to decide what you're going to do, and neither of your partners should get any say in the matter. You get to control what they want and how long they stick around.

 

7) If my husband finds out, he might confront the OM!

Good heavens to mergatroid Mrs. Cheater, that must never be allowed! You own and control your husband's choices, and even his very manhood! And you must protect your OM and make sure his choices can't have any consequences. You must control the outcome of all of this!

 

8) My wife isn't giving me enough love. I deserve love!

Why yes you do, Mr. Cheater. You deserve the sun and the moon and the stars too. And you deserve to control how much love you get, from whom, all the time. Wife isn't giving you enough love, then leave her! Oh, then you won't have anyone to do the laundry? Oh yes, that would be a problem. Wouldn't be fair for you to lose your slave labor....

 

 

I could go on and on, but I think those examples pretty much cover it. Any excuse I've ever heard would pretty much fit into one of those categories.

 

CHEATING = CONTROL. So to all the WS out there, perhaps you should stop being control freaks. Perhaps you should acknowledge that human beings, other than yourselves, have the right to make informed choices of their own. You don't own anyone else's mind, heart, feelings, or body. Stop trying to.

[Spark1111]

Appreciate the direct reply.

 

Have some more thinking to do...

 

All the angles seem to result in one of three options: 1. Lose 2. Lose or 3. Lose

 

Your knee-jerk reaction was similiar to mine: spare the children pain at all costs.

 

It is a fine and noble one. But your dilemma, which I suspect is similiar to mine; is that I did not allow myself to feel my feelings because, once again, I was being the strong responsible one in saving my family.

 

When I finally allowed my real feelings to emerge, I concluded that I, too, should have separated for longer than I did. I needed to know I was here for the long haul and truly committed to healing the marriage.

 

So here was my schism: Did the right thng for the kids and family; not sure I did the right thing for ME, initially.

 

I had to tell my H this. It was hard. My pain made hime feel so much worse. But I could not help that. I needed to share my pain with my partner. He needed to hear it, as hard as it was.

 

Start talking about your feelings to your spouse. You are trying to run away from them in an effort to spare her. You cannot do this to yourself.

[Snowflower]

We have MC on Wednesday. I am trying to grow the balls it will take to tell her that I need to separate from her for a while. I need to take time to decide what I want to do. Everything that has been done so far has been done in fear of losing my wife, kids, house, etc.. I feel like I now need to decide what I want from life. To try being on my own. To make my own decision to come back or not. Also to send a message that I'm not a doormat; I won't take this again. I'm hesitant to separate from a very remorseful wife who is working hard to make amends. I'm afraid to sabotage it but again, tired of making decisions based on fear. I guess I also want to see her response. If she says she's done, that will say everything. I don't know much about trial separations. I just know something has to be done with my bitterness and jealousy. I've sucked it up but can't seem to swallow it.

 

I do agree with the other posters here who say separation should be a last resort!

 

However, I do understand (I think) exactly what you are going through here.

 

BH: I went through something very similar as you are: where I wondered whether I was staying for the right reasons or was it really fear of being alone? My H and I only separated for about a week after d-day and sometimes I wonder if it would have been better/easier for me in the long run if I had made him stay out, i.e. separated, for awhile.

 

Instead, I spent year 2 of our reconciliation battling myself, so to speak and being so confused about what I really wanted. That year, I told my H nearly every other day that I might want to separate and that I would never recover.

 

If I had separated from him early on, I might have been able to face some of my fears and been able to reconcile while being 1000% confident I was attempting to do the right thing.

 

BH, everyone's reconciliation is different. I urge you to explore some of this in IC. Keep trying different counselors until you find one who you are comfortable with.

 

I understand your fears. I've been there myself. But, you have muddied the waters with your revenge affair, even though that is over now. Right or wrong, I can understand why you did it but it will make your reconciliation more complicated because now you have your own feelings of guilt, disgust?, regret, etc. to deal with in addition to your pain over your wife's affair.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Snowflower

[anne1707]

Joe - would you suggest something like this to a woman who had found out that her husband had an affair?

 

 

Joe

 

I would still be interested to know whether you would give the same advice to a woman whose husband had an affair?

 

You see it strikes me that there have been many double standards expressed in this thread whereby the OP has been encouraged to have an affair by many who I am sure would call a woman a wh** for doing this. You have also shown what IMO is a double standard. It is acceptable that your wife was actually a WS yet other women who have affairs deserve to be punished.

[JustJoe]

BH, contrary to popular belief, marriage is not the be-all and end-all of human relationships. You say that you lose, in any event, but I think that's untrue. Sure, you lose your wife, but she wasn't a very good one was she? If both parents handle the divorce with maturity, and good sense, then the kids don't have to suffer from the split-up. Believe me , pal, as a kid who lived through a ton of upheaval and drama, I WISHED my parents would have divorced, rather than put us kids through hell. If you do the things that you need to do, to satisfy yourself, and she does the things that satisfy herself, then the kids will have two well-adjusted parents whether they are together or apart. The fallout from my mom's affair will never end, it is a part of the fabric of our family, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[BetrayedH]

Told her last night that I need to separate for a while to make my own decisions about how to move forward. I've been too motivated by fear. I need to look my fears straight in the face and then decide to reconcile or not. I feel like once I have done that, I can get both feet in one camp or another. She's heartbroken but understands. Will take some time to discuss logistics and to have that wonderful conversation with my kids.