When MP blames A on OP

[White Flower]

I only read the first post and this. I agree with this. If a MM blames the OW, then I would think the OW would be done with the MM in every way. So, who cares? Move on and leave it behind you, How the MM and his BW deal with their situation is not an OW's concern.

 

As a BW, I wouldn't have allowed my H to blame his actions on anyone but himself. He took complete responsibility for what he did. My issues were with him as the OW wasn't a part of my life.

 

If a MM and BW want to blame the OW, then that is their choice. However, I can't see how focusing on the OW is helpful to any reconciliation.

 

In any case, why would an OW care about what is being said by a MM who is trying everything possible to get his BW to forgive him?

I actually agree with you and have always respected your stance on this subject. Your M, I feel, has a better chance at healing since the one who stepped out on it accepts blame, then deals with healing.

 

FWIW, MM did not blame me as far as I know. He claims he defended me, KISA that he is, but as I stated earlier I'm not sure how long his W will put up with that if I am to believe what I am told about her. Yet, in some way, I think the act of staying can allude to the idea of the MM blaming the OW, especially when the BW is prone to calling exOW names, etc.

 

The way I see it is that the OW has the ability to decide to become involved with the MM. Her choice to become involved is her responsibility. She should have the balls to stand up to the heat that comes her way due to her actions.

 

That in no way lets the MM off the hook. He has the ability and choice to become involved in an affair and will need to face the fallout of his actions.

 

If the W chooses to misdirect her anger at the OW and basically allow her H to slide…well, when her H keeps cheating or the M never gets healthy, that’s her problem.

 

See, we all have choices.

Fair enough.

[2sunny]

when i was younger and my exH cheated - i did blame him - i also blamed his OW. i intended to heal the marriage and used every form of denial i could in order to stay in the M. i had one boundary i set forth. IF you every do this again - the M is over - without even any discussion.

 

the second one i found out about - i only blamed him. it was over. no discussion, no excuses, nada. he was shell shocked... he tried everything to get me to engage in a conversation with him. he even booked an appt with our M counselor. i walked in a said - it's over - nothing to talk about. so glad you are willing to waste $180.00 to get the truth you need, which you already knew ten years prior when i set down MY boundary! ia ma a woman of MY word.

 

some times - people don't believe we will stick to the boundary in place. i proved him wrong... he was shocked that his "perfect life" went away in a flash. our actions tell way more than our words.

 

bottom line is - he was not the man he portrayed himself to be... and i was willing to believe he was a much better man than he was capable of becoming. that alone is exhausting mentally and emotionally. it's much easier to fall for a healthy man... mind, body and spirit!

[silktricks]

The way I see it is that the OW has the ability to decide to become involved with the MM. Her choice to become involved is her responsibility. She should have the balls to stand up to the heat that comes her way due to her actions.

 

That in no way lets the MM off the hook. He has the ability and choice to become involved in an affair and will need to face the fallout of his actions.

 

If the W chooses to misdirect her anger at the OW and basically allow her H to slide…well, when her H keeps cheating or the M never gets healthy, that’s her problem.

 

See, we all have choices.

 

Very succinctly and accurately put.

[NoIDidn't]

Why is what the MP says to their spouse about the A or the OP relevant to the OP?

 

Is this another "the W is stupid to believe him" thread?

[White Flower]

Why is what the MP says to their spouse about the A or the OP relevant to the OP?

 

Is this another "the W is stupid to believe him" thread?

No it's not; why don't you read through it and find out how interesting it's been.

 

I think what gets me about the subject of MM blaming the OW is how easy and comfortable it fits right in to the kind of couple who need to keep up appearances. Will they stay together? Sure. Are they right together? Possibly not.

 

I don't think staying with someone you love makes you stupid, btw. But I do feel you shouldn't accept nonsense when you hear it either, not that there is never blame on the OP's part.

[2sunny]

No it's not; why don't you read through it and find out how interesting it's been.

 

I think what gets me about the subject of MM blaming the OW is how easy and comfortable it fits right in to the kind of couple who need to keep up appearances. Will they stay together? Sure. Are they right together? Possibly not.

 

I don't think staying with someone you love makes you stupid, btw. But I do feel you shouldn't accept nonsense when you hear it either, not that there is never blame on the OP's part.

 

WF - a lot of people stay married knowing they may not be right together - but mainly because they honestly love each other. it may not be that they are anything close to being ideal for each other - but just that they have loved each other a long time and on some levels and that is enough... enough to continue with it as it is... and to understand that it is enough to be happy enough to continue staying.

 

i have counseled many couples and this is the way they see their life. ideal or not - they are still happy enough - for THEM. would it be enough for me? not a chance.

 

you wouldn't believe how many folks stay and beg for it to continue when it looks far from even slightly happy to me. so i know it's not for me to say what happy looks like for others - and what they are willing to settle for in order to keep up the appearances or priorities that are important to THEM. and some just don't want to give up the familiar life they lead - even if it's completely horrible... THAT i'll never understand. but many - just don't want to be alone. THAT, to me, is sad.

[White Flower]

WF - a lot of people stay married knowing they may not be right together - but mainly because they honestly love each other. it may not be that they are anything close to being ideal for each other - but just that they have loved each other a long time and on some levels and that is enough... enough to continue with it as it is... and to understand that it is enough to be happy enough to continue staying.

 

i have counseled many couples and this is the way they see their life. ideal or not - they are still happy enough - for THEM. would it be enough for me? not a chance.

 

you wouldn't believe how many folks stay and beg for it to continue when it looks far from even slightly happy to me. so i know it's not for me to say what happy looks like for others - and what they are willing to settle for in order to keep up the appearances or priorities that are important to THEM. and some just don't want to give up the familiar life they lead - even if it's completely horrible... THAT i'll never understand. but many - just don't want to be alone. THAT, to me, is sad.

I agree with you 2sunny. I think for many couples it is about avoiding change and the unknown future. It is so sad that fear keeps them there, in a place that may not be good for them just because it is all they know.

 

I didn't know you were a counselor...I guess I'm not surprised.

[2sunny]

I agree with you 2sunny. I think for many couples it is about avoiding change and the unknown future. It is so sad that fear keeps them there, in a place that may not be good for them just because it is all they know.

 

I didn't know you were a counselor...I guess I'm not surprised.

 

yep, this is often the case and all they need to continue on. crazy what some folks call happy... or happy enough. change is so hard for most - but what's needed and avoided at the same time.

 

so really - they can only blame themselves that they settle for so little.

[NoIDidn't]

No it's not; why don't you read through it and find out how interesting it's been.

 

I think what gets me about the subject of MM blaming the OW is how easy and comfortable it fits right in to the kind of couple who need to keep up appearances. Will they stay together? Sure. Are they right together? Possibly not.

 

I don't think staying with someone you love makes you stupid, btw. But I do feel you shouldn't accept nonsense when you hear it either, not that there is never blame on the OP's part.

 

That's just it. Why does it matter what the man says to his W? Who cares if they like to keep up appearances? None of us are part of that couple.

 

I can honestly say that my H never blamed his co-worker for her part in their EA. I didn't focus on her either as I didn't know her and she was not present the day I said my vows with him in front of our families. But if he did blame her, that says more about him and his coping skills than anything about me. And either way, I don't see why its relevant to anyone else that's not a part of my marriage.

 

I recently sat through a conversation about how the W's of men that have cheated on them always get pregnant afterwards as if that's going to help them keep their man. LOL. I have never laughed so hard. They didn't know the actual circumstances of the pregnancies they mentioned (they didn't have the balls to mention mine and they knew about my H's sitch as knew the girl he used to work with, lol), so it just showed how they sit around and nitpick others lives instead of living their own.

 

I admit I come at this with my own subjective experiences. I have been blamed for affairs I haven't even had, LOL, so I have an I couldn't care less what he said attitude about the whole thing. I just don't care if people want to blame me for things when the net result will mean nothing changes in my life because of it.

 

The tone of this thread is just that if the MM blames the OW for the A, then somehow the W is weak or gullible and I don't know how one can make such a leap. Based on a few words typed in a forum? Stereotypes abound, and this seems to feed into yet another stereotype typical of OW/OM forums: the gullible betrayed spouse.

[Susmay]

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The tone of this thread is just that if the MM blames the OW for the A, then somehow the W is weak or gullible and I don't know how one can make such a leap. Based on a few words typed in a forum? Stereotypes abound, and this seems to feed into yet another stereotype typical of OW/OM forums: the gullible betrayed spouse.

 

I was betrayed, deceived and then blindsided, but that doesn't make me weak or gullible, unless somehow it is weak and gullible to trust.

 

Also if the MM blames the OW for the affair I just don't see how that means that it's because he and the wife want to keep up some sort of appearance of a happy couple, as was suggested.

 

Personally I don't like the use of the words "fault" and "blame" around here. I think it should be more about responsibility and accountability.

[NoIDidn't]

Also if the MM blames the OW for the affair I just don't see how that means that it's because he and the wife want to keep up some sort of appearance of a happy couple, as was suggested.

 

Projection, maybe? Its pretty widely accepted wisdom that married people in affairs tear down their spouses to the OP - and not always in a direct way. My H swore that he never said a bad word about me to his co-worker, but her first words to me were that she didn't know "my side". So its clear the image he painted of me was not flattering.

 

Given that the MP and OP do this to the spouse, I can't understand why its a problem when the MP turns around and does it to the MP.

 

Either way, if I were the OP that was being blamed, I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care about what it means to that couple or what it says about the W or the H. I wouldn't care that they are keeping up appearances. Its not my marriage to be worried about.

 

Maybe I just have a bad case of apathy. I just don't think worrying about what someone else may be saying of me and my actions in the past is all that important. Especially under these circumstances though. Its not likely to keep me from getting a job, or from feeding my children - so its not important to me.

 

(An aside: I am well aware that everyone doesn't feel the way that I do. Sharing my thoughts on the subject here does not mean that I don't think the thread should be started or whatever. I would not have started the thread as I don't care, but since its been started, I want to share my limited thoughts on it, like everyone else. I am not posting this to tell others that their opinions are stupid because they shouldn't care like I don't. Free and open speech works both ways. One cares about the subject and posts that they care, one doesn't and posts that they don't. Not right or wrong, just different.)

[pureinheart]

I'm trying not to be critical myself. Gong through a very difficult time right now and it's hard to focus on anything. LS seems to be the only place I can focus!

 

There is a serious situation going on at MM's camp right now. He is playing the only role he's ever known how to play, his KISA role. I know he is genuinely helpful, genuinely the good guy, but first and foremost he is doing it for himself above any other. I happen to know he suffers serious guilt issues and being the KISA deflects the guilt and makes him feel better about himself. Gaining approval from others is central to his well-being. (Too bad he couldn't get approval from himself to live his life the way he wants it.)

 

Further, he hurt his W earlier this year (D-day) and I'm sure he's using this time to 'make up for it'. Family from out of town are eyewitnesses to these acts of kindness, dilligence, and protective actions that are reasonable and customary during such times. I am not calling him, emailing him, nor pestering him in any way. I have all but disappeared out of respect during a very difficult time...

 

even though I could use his love right now. I could use his strength. But he is proving his loyalty over there. And after all is said and done, and they have a chance to talk about their M again, I'm sure I will take some sort of blame.

 

Awwww WF, I wanted to respond sooner, although this heat and having stuff to take care of has rendered me a bit brainless;).

 

I am so sorry as I understand a bit of what you might be going through. ExDM had these tendencies also, it was very difficult to deal with the rollercoaster of emotions that they go through. Just when I'd think that he was gaining ground as far as being his own person, something would happen and he'd go right back even further into his oblivion.

 

His fear of the unknown, or what he perceived as the unknown, held him back from sooo much in life, and to think he would have the courage to face all of that now seemed far reaching.

 

This is going to sound really bad, due to the extremely toxic M I am speaking of, I want the BS's out there to know this is not a general comment or dig. His M was a cage in some ways, a cage that he was used to. I saw D in this case as liberation and freedom (for everyone concerned)...it was a very strange dynamic for those that don't know my story.

 

WF, never in a million years did I think they would actually D, as the dynamic was so constrictive and controlling. But they broke free...

 

Had there been hope of a healthy M, that would have been my desire for them, although I knew deep down it wasn't going to happen, and what did happen I knew was the thing that was supposed to happen.

 

Like you, I took one day at a time and went through hell and back financially, spiritually, emotionally, and health wise (not saying you are going through all this junk)...then...it all turned around, just like that...I got hit with the "suddenlies", meaning suddenly it was all changed.

 

FTR...to remain with the thread topic, I have no doubt in my mind that I was to blame for everything that ever went wrong in the M...I have "love letters" from her that prove that...his kids blamed me, they blamed each other, they all blamed me...quite the joke IMO. I really never cared though, as I knew the truth and have not cared too much about what others think of me, it's none of my business anyway.

 

((((((((hugs WF))))))))) you got my heart and prayers

Edited August 27, 2010 by pureinheart

[Hazyhead]

That's just it. Why does it matter what the man says to his W? Who cares if they like to keep up appearances? None of us are part of that couple.

 

I can honestly say that my H never blamed his co-worker for her part in their EA. I didn't focus on her either as I didn't know her and she was not present the day I said my vows with him in front of our families. But if he did blame her, that says more about him and his coping skills than anything about me. And either way, I don't see why its relevant to anyone else that's not a part of my marriage.

 

I recently sat through a conversation about how the W's of men that have cheated on them always get pregnant afterwards as if that's going to help them keep their man. LOL. I have never laughed so hard. They didn't know the actual circumstances of the pregnancies they mentioned (they didn't have the balls to mention mine and they knew about my H's sitch as knew the girl he used to work with, lol), so it just showed how they sit around and nitpick others lives instead of living their own.

 

I admit I come at this with my own subjective experiences. I have been blamed for affairs I haven't even had, LOL, so I have an I couldn't care less what he said attitude about the whole thing. I just don't care if people want to blame me for things when the net result will mean nothing changes in my life because of it.

 

The tone of this thread is just that if the MM blames the OW for the A, then somehow the W is weak or gullible and I don't know how one can make such a leap. Based on a few words typed in a forum? Stereotypes abound, and this seems to feed into yet another stereotype typical of OW/OM forums: the gullible betrayed spouse.

 

It doesn't matter with regards to making an actual difference, but, when he passes blame your way, that isn't yours (or at least all yours as he makes out), after promising you that you were his priority and he would protect you at all costs, it's another deep stab in the back and another bitter pill to swallow.

 

I think it gets to me more that when it happened to me, I let him do it. He asked me to minimise and share certain responsibilities that were actually totally his because he said he wanted as much access to his baby in the separation and this would make the difference. BUT, it doesn't change anything for me. In fact, it helps me to see were his true loyalties lay.

 

WF, I always admire your strength and it seems like right now you need it as much as ever before. Sending hugs your way. I hope you come out of this as unscathed as possible.

[jennie-jennie]

I think it gets to me more that when it happened to me, I let him do it. He asked me to minimise and share certain responsibilities that were actually totally his because he said he wanted as much access to his baby in the separation and this would make the difference. BUT, it doesn't change anything for me. In fact, it helps me to see were his true loyalties lay.

 

With himself? That's what it sounds like to me. Can't be with his wife since he is still lying and minimizing to her.

[Hazyhead]

With himself? That's what it sounds like to me. Can't be with his wife since he is still lying and minimizing to her.

 

Although he would see it as them, especially his baby, you're right Jennie.

[bentnotbroken]

I think they both play into the pathology of perfection. They could write a book on it if they were truly in self-discovery mode.

 

He is, actually, and continues to be in IC.

 

Yes, she is in denial (head-in-the-sand-burying) and he is used to lying to her in order to avoid confrontation when he wants to leave her anyway. In his mind, why confess all when he feels he can't move forward with her and has never felt intimately connected to her? This is not her fault, I know. She wants what she wants and will overlook her instincts in order to keep it.

 

So they both play into it, allowing the farce to continue.

 

Yes, we'll agree to disagree. I don't feel my part in our A is deceiving her. I feel his part in our A is.

 

And I'm not sure there is a difference between a man 'acting upon' an object for his addiction or 'exchanging emotions' with an A partner. Ask any BW whose H is addicted to porn and she might answer differently. One of my best friends D'd her H for putting porn above her and her sexual needs.

 

However, I do see how the exchanging of emotions can feel threatening, especially if the OP is very good at persuasion.

 

 

I guess I see that porn, gambling, eating are all considered disorders that can be mananged through treatment. Unless someone is a diagnosed sex addict, cheating is something that can be controlled without treatment. Not to say those things aren't destructive to but I don't see those things as affairs. *shrug*

[silktricks]

In any case, why would an OW care about what is being said by a MM who is trying everything possible to get his BW to forgive him?

 

I really enjoyed this statement. So, I'll repeat it. Why would the OW care what he's saying? He's trying to get back with his wife!

[jennie-jennie]

I really enjoyed this statement. So, I'll repeat it. Why would the OW care what he's saying? He's trying to get back with his wife!

 

She might be interested in whether he is planning to have a relationship based on honesty with his wife this time or not. If not, then she can take pleasure in the fact that they will not have a successful reconciliation.

 

I for one do not wish my MM a happy ever after with his wife.

[herenow]

She might be interested in whether he is planning to have a relationship based on honesty with his wife this time or not. If not, then she can take pleasure in the fact that they will not have a successful reconciliation.

 

I for one do not wish my MM a happy ever after with his wife.

 

Wow, is it OK then for a BW to take pleasure in the pain an OW feels when thrown under the bus?

[herenow]

 

Either way, if I were the OP that was being blamed, I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care about what it means to that couple or what it says about the W or the H. I wouldn't care that they are keeping up appearances. Its not my marriage to be worried about.

 

 

Yup, I agree. IMO, OW shouldn't care about what a BW is told by her H. As a BW, I don't care what the OW thinks of me either. I'm not concerned about anything my H may have said to her during the affair as she is not someone who means anything to me.

 

OW always say that they are not part of the marriage. Why should they care what goes on in the marriage before, during or after the affair?

[Snowflower]

I always find it interesting how focused the AP often is on the marriage of the MP and the BS. It is like this during the A and after D-day. It's usually all about what the BS is saying what the MP is saying and endless analysis about it all.

 

It doesn't make sense to me because isn't the A relationship supposed to be the primary relationship over the marriage? If so, why all the worry about what the BS is saying and thinking. Who cares?

[Hazyhead]

IMO, it's not about the words that are said, or the effort that's made (which, to save a marriage I would never begrudge), it's about lies. I know xMM's wife must hate me and I accept that as a consequence of MY actions. What bothered me was that he lied about me, probably similarly to the way in which he lied about her to me, the minimising of affections and choices he made. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to care about it, just that's the way I feel. I owned my choices and it bothered me that he didn't.

 

However, now it's just another 'Thank goodness I'm not with him because...' whereas his wife has to continue to live with his lies and spin. If that is indeed what is still going on because, of course, how the Hell would I know. If they end up happy then, honestly, i'm glad. I just feel sorry for her now that she still might not know the truth as she wAnts to know it.

[OWoman]

Yup, I agree. IMO, OW shouldn't care about what a BW is told by her H. As a BW, I don't care what the OW thinks of me either. I'm not concerned about anything my H may have said to her during the affair as she is not someone who means anything to me.

 

OW always say that they are not part of the marriage. Why should they care what goes on in the marriage before, during or after the affair?

 

I don't think the issue is what the BW thinks, but what the MM tells her. The OW feels that the MM owes her a debt of loyalty - after all, by being honest with her while patently not being honest with his W, he is privileging his R with the OW over his R with his W, and so the OW develops an expectation of loyalty and continued prioritisation. If this doesn't materialise on DDay, and he shops the OW to the BW, then in the OW's eyes the MM is reducing her to the same status of disrespect as the BW - and that's not a nice possibility to have to confront.

[jennie-jennie]

Wow, is it OK then for a BW to take pleasure in the pain an OW feels when thrown under the bus?

 

Sure, all is fair in love and war.

 

For the OW the pleasure had nothing to do with the BS but with the MM. She does not want him to be happy with another woman.

Edited August 27, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Hazyhead]

I don't think the issue is what the BW thinks, but what the MM tells her. The OW feels that the MM owes her a debt of loyalty - after all, by being honest with her while patently not being honest with his W, he is privileging his R with the OW over his R with his W, and so the OW develops an expectation of loyalty and continued prioritisation. If this doesn't materialise on DDay, and he shops the OW to the BW, then in the OW's eyes the MM is reducing her to the same status of disrespect as the BW - and that's not a nice possibility to have to confront.

 

Exactly. When someone you love lies about you or doesn't protect you, it hurts, regardless of the rhyme or reason.