When MP blames A on OP

[herenow]

Again, you do not understand why a MM is staying. If he is not ready to leave, he will not be ready to leave just because there is a Dday.

 

My MM never badmouths his wife, so I can not respond to that part of your post.

 

Why isn't he ready to leave if he loves an OW? And, if he loves said OW, why would he throw her under the bus at all? Maybe you don't understand why he is staying. Bottom line, he is staying because he wants to.

[Owl]

Again, you do not understand why a MM is staying. If he is not ready to leave, he will not be ready to leave just because there is a Dday.

 

My MM never badmouths his wife, so I can not respond to that part of your post.

 

I think you might, maybe be able to talk about why YOUR MM is staying.

 

But you can't assume that you...or any other OW for that matter...knows more about why MM is staying than the BS does.

 

No one can speak to what's really going on in the marriage at that point but those that are in it at the time.

[jennie-jennie]

But the only one who TRULY knows that is the MP. Maybe he/she doesn't leave because they really are just someone who wants variety and was willing to risk a M over it.

 

There are those MM of course. But with the multitude of hours my MM has spoken to me over the years about his inner emotions concerning me and his marriage, I have a very good idea why men like him do not leave their marriages.

[donnamaybe]

There are those MM of course. But with the multitude of hours my MM has spoken to me over the years about his inner emotions concerning me and his marriage, I have a very good idea why men like him do not leave their marriages.

You can presume to know, based on what he tells you, but only HE truly knows what's going on in his head.

 

That goes for each and every person on the planet. NOT just WS's.

[silktricks]

And why? He has done nothing but lie to the wife before, so what does it matter to the OW what he says now?

 

There is a third alternative, which is what is interesting to the OW:

where the MM is trying to pacify the wife to continue the marriage.

 

This I believe is what upsets the OW. Pretending to do everything to rebuild the marriage, when in fact being dishonest to the wife. Don't use me as a lever for a dishonest marriage.

 

Your third alternative is the same as my second. Try to pacify the wife to continue the affair/try to pacify the wife to continue the marriage. If there is no marriage, there is not an affair, simply a relationship.

 

Using you as a lever for a dishonest marriage, is hurtful, of course, but to me, the part that would be most hurtful wouldn't be the dishonest marriage part, but rather that he hasn't taken the opportunity to be with me - the person according to him that he really loves. He'd prefer to lie about me so that he can keep his "happy" home with her. Those actions would say to me that he doesn't love me enough - not enough for me.

[jennie-jennie]

Perhaps he's NOT being dishonest to the wife. Perhaps, when brought out into the cold light of day, the A now becomes crystal clear to the WS as NOT as important as his M.

 

Sure. Like I often say on LS, there are other things than love which are as important or even more important to the MM. That is why he has not left already, in spite of loving his OW.

[herenow]

There are those MM of course. But with the multitude of hours my MM has spoken to me over the years about his inner emotions concerning me and his marriage, I have a very good idea why men like him do not leave their marriages.

 

And then there are the millions of marriages that end in divorce. How are those men able to leave? I'm sure many of them leave for OW and we will never see those statistics because it's a secret. But they leave and they do it often.

[jennie-jennie]

Your third alternative is the same as my second. Try to pacify the wife to continue the affair/try to pacify the wife to continue the marriage. If there is no marriage, there is not an affair, simply a relationship.

 

Using you as a lever for a dishonest marriage, is hurtful, of course, but to me, the part that would be most hurtful wouldn't be the dishonest marriage part, but rather that he hasn't taken the opportunity to be with me - the person according to him that he really loves. He'd prefer to lie about me so that he can keep his "happy" home with her. Those actions would say to me that he doesn't love me enough - not enough for me.

 

No, it is absolutely not the same, because I meant that the affair was over, but the MM still pacified his wife to continue the marriage instead of rebuilding it honestly. It becomes an empty shell marriage.

 

Again, I know there is absolutely nothing missing in my MM's love for me, however there are other things in life he values besides the love for a woman.

[silktricks]

Sure. Like I often say on LS, there are other things than love which are as important or even more important to the MM. That is why he has not left already, in spite of loving his OW.

 

And like I say - I wouldn't be with a man if I wasn't the single most important thing in his life, and he in mine. Obviously I'm not OW material.

[jennie-jennie]

And IMO...staying WITHOUT recovery is WORSE.

 

Agreed. And we OW hate to see our MM do this which dishonestly blaming the OW is a sign of. At least if you go back, do the hard work and be really happy.

[jennie-jennie]

And like I say - I wouldn't be with a man if I wasn't the single most important thing in his life, and he in mine. Obviously I'm not OW material.

 

Maybe not. LOL Or you are just lucky that you found a man to love who was not married.

[silktricks]

No, it is absolutely not the same, because I meant that the affair was over, but the MM still pacified his wife to continue the marriage instead of rebuilding it honestly. It becomes an empty shell marriage.

 

Well, in that case I go back to my original - if the affair is over, the OW needs to get on with her own life and her own happiness. She has no business in the marriage nor in concerning herself with the marriage. What is said between them is between them. Her opinion of the state of their marriage means less than nothing.

[jennie-jennie]

And, again, the ONLY one who REALLY understands this is the MM himself.

 

I don't think you realize how much time at least I and my MM spend discussing this. It is impossible for him to put up a facade during all those hours. It would not be consistent.

[Hazyhead]

 

Using you as a lever for a dishonest marriage, is hurtful, of course, but to me, the part that would be most hurtful wouldn't be the dishonest marriage part, but rather that he hasn't taken the opportunity to be with me - the person according to him that he really loves. He'd prefer to lie about me so that he can keep his "happy" home with her. Those actions would say to me that he doesn't love me enough - not enough for me.

 

Silk, this is exactly how I felt. I want someone who puts me first; who'd move mountains to be with me. It turned out not to be him, even if he did love

me, he didn't love me enough.

[jennie-jennie]

I think you might, maybe be able to talk about why YOUR MM is staying.

 

But you can't assume that you...or any other OW for that matter...knows more about why MM is staying than the BS does.

 

No one can speak to what's really going on in the marriage at that point but those that are in it at the time.

 

Umm, I think the wife has very little idea what is going on in her husband's mind since he is concealing such a large part of his life for her. This is bound to affect the marriage. Thus the wife does not know what is going on in the marriage.

[herenow]

Agreed. And we OW hate to see our MM do this which dishonestly blaming the OW is a sign of. At least if you go back, do the hard work and be really happy.

 

Well, maybe these MM really believe that the OW was at fault. It would not be dishonest if he really believed it.

 

However, IMO, a BW should focus on her H and his choice to have an affair as opposed to blaming the OW. Even if the MM blames the OW, the BW (in most cases) knows where to place the blame that matters to her.

[herenow]

I don't think you realize how much time at least I and my MM spend discussing this. It is impossible for him to put up a facade during all those hours. It would not be consistent.

 

Many MM put up a consistent facade to their BW's and they live with them. It's call compartmentalizing and many MM are very good at it.

[jennie-jennie]

And then there are the millions of marriages that end in divorce. How are those men able to leave? I'm sure many of them leave for OW and we will never see those statistics because it's a secret. But they leave and they do it often.

 

There are many kinds of men. Those who are able to leave when they fall in love with a new woman and those who are not. The dynamics are totally different in these two cases.

[donnamaybe]

Many MM put up a consistent facade to their BW's and they live with them. It's call compartmentalizing and many MM are very good at it.

And that very SAME facade could be utilized against an OW.

[jennie-jennie]

Well, in that case I go back to my original - if the affair is over, the OW needs to get on with her own life and her own happiness. She has no business in the marriage nor in concerning herself with the marriage. What is said between them is between them. Her opinion of the state of their marriage means less than nothing.

 

The thing is that these two things happen simultaneously. The closure of the affair and the starting of the reconciliation of the marriage. The MM and the OW are likely to be discussing what is happening if there is not immediately total NC.

 

The normal ending of a relationship contains the party being left questioning why the other is leaving and for what.

[herenow]

Umm, I think the wife has very little idea what is going on in her husband's mind since he is concealing such a large part of his life for her. This is bound to affect the marriage. Thus the wife does not know what is going on in the marriage.

 

Same could be said for any OW. You will never know. The only person who knows exactly what is going on is the MM and it behooves him to say what he needs to say in order to keep both women believing what he wants them to believe.

 

A MM who can hide an affair from his wife can certainly hide whatever he wants from his OW, IMO.

[silktricks]

Agreed. And we OW hate to see our MM do this which dishonestly blaming the OW is a sign of. At least if you go back, do the hard work and be really happy.

 

 

OK - now we're back to blame. I hate that word...

 

No wife is going to truly accept that an affair is all the OW's fault. She may let it go, but she knows that (to be gross), the OW didn't take it and stick it in herself....

 

There is a difference between apportioning "blame" and diminishing the importance of the OW to the wife.

 

For a MM to say "I didn't do it, it was all her fault" is pretty cheesy and stupid. Very very few BS are going to accept something like that.

 

However, for a MM to say, "She really didn't mean anything to me" or "I made a terrible mistake", or "She's nothing compared to you" or things along that line... that is diminishing the value of the OW. That may or may not be acceptable to the fBS. It depends on the woman, the situation, a lot of things - and here's the rub - it may or may not be true.

 

In the "heat of the affair" the MM may believe the OW means everything, is his soul mate, or whatever. After he's been walloped in the face by the reality of discovery he/she may realize that the OW/OM really wasn't "all that". He may be telling the truth when he is minimizing the affair. He may not. The OW wants to believe he is not telling the truth, the BS wants to believe he is. Only the MM knows for sure - and during the crazy days after a D-Day, he may not even know.

[donnamaybe]

Same could be said for any OW. You will never know. The only person who knows exactly what is going on is the MM and it behooves him to say what he needs to say in order to keep both women believing what he wants them to believe.

 

A MM who can hide an affair from his wife can certainly hide whatever he wants from his OW, IMO.

And that is something I keep trying to get across, but the idea is completely rejected. Why, I do not know. Were I in that situation, the longer it went on, the more I would question the veracity of my AP.

[herenow]

Going back to the OP of this thread. When talking specifically about who is to blame for an affair, there may be difference of opinion. The OW may feel she isn't to blame where the MM many feel she is.

 

If the MM tells his BW that the OW is to blame, it doesn't necessarily mean that the reconciliation is based on lies. It means that he isn't taking responsibility for his actions. At that point a BW can force him to take responsibility or she can choose to blame the OW as well. Either way, there can still be truth in the marriage. Doesn't mean the affair didn't happen and they will still have to deal with that reality no matter whose fault it was.

[silktricks]

The thing is that these two things happen simultaneously. The closure of the affair and the starting of the reconciliation of the marriage. The MM and the OW are likely to be discussing what is happening if there is not immediately total NC.

 

 

Uh yeah, and the MM and BS are likely to be discussing the same thing...