When MP blames A on OP

[White Flower]

then you REALLY know nothing, yet... my best suggestion is to sit down with her and be honest. she may be able to help you understand way more than you think, if you're honest.

 

then, and only then, will you know what you really need to know, and what you have been afraid to know.

 

you owe this to her and to yourself. it will determine what is BEST for YOUR future. it will help her with HER future too. if MM intends to love you - he shouldn't have a problem with this at all... the pretending goes away and all three deal with the reality of what the future may bring - based on honesty, not lies and deception.

 

can you do that, for yourself and the best interest of all involved?

2sunny I have to ask, are you a M and family therapist?

 

If so, why do you feel it necessary for Jennie to 'be honest' with the W? Why would Jennie owe that to anyone? Just curious, because if I were paying you for your services, as an OW I would wonder if you were on my side or on the side of M in general.

 

If this makes you uncomfortable or think it is off-topic feel free to PM me.

[2sunny]

2sunny I have to ask, are you a M and family therapist?

 

If so, why do you feel it necessary for Jennie to 'be honest' with the W? Why would Jennie owe that to anyone? Just curious, because if I were paying you for your services, as an OW I would wonder if you were on my side or on the side of M in general.

 

If this makes you uncomfortable or think it is off-topic feel free to PM me.

 

i'm not on anyone's "side", per se'. just look at the bigger picture from a view of being honest. honesty helps to determine what is ACTUALLY going on - instead of what pretending gets you... which is usually just jerked around...

 

i rarely think telling the wife is advantageous... but in Jennie's case - it seems that her MM may leave it like this forever.

 

IF that is all well and good with her - then i say don't tell. IF she wants to know the wife's truth then have an honest conversation. he may reveal what he REALLY intends to do this way.

[White Flower]

I'd say that I'd have to change the comment from "Whether or not he manages to leave..." to "chooses to leave".

 

He can "manage" to leave whenever he wants to. The bottom line is that he chooses not to leave at this point...you're right, he may choose to leave at a later date. Or....he may not.

 

It's all about what he CHOOSES to do...

 

A hasty choice made while caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Nope. To save his relationship with his wife.

Or to save himself. Or to finish the work already begun in IC. Or to create more time to move assets around before he leaves.

It's not like she's going to kill him if he doesn't 'blame the OW'. The only reason he's got to make the OW look bad is to keep his wife from ending the marriage. He's doing damage control to protect the marriage...to keep it from ending..

Or, again, it is to protect himself, his OW, and his W in order to plan for a better time to leave. Of course, many feel D-day is the best time while others struggle with this time.

 

I'm assuming from this, Owl, that you've never been depressed. Or afraid. Or just plain overwhelmed and confused. That you've never had that moment as a kid of being expected to join in the teasing of the geeky kid, knowing you shouldn't and feeling you don't want to, but knowing that if you don't, tomorrow they will all be teasing you... Never really really liked someone, and been under pressure to have sex with them to show that you really really like them, but felt not ready or not right or uncomfortable about it... Never faced a depressed parent who was feeling that their whole life had been a failure, wanting to tell them somehow that it was OK but frozen by your own anger in your heart at all their parenting mistakes and the toll it had taken on you...

 

If you have never been paralysed by very deep conflict or fear or powerlessness, and have always no matter what the situation and what (your fears or distorted perceptions of) the personal risks to yourself still managed to act swiftly and decisively and without regret fully authentically and in keeping with your morals and values - well done, Owl! You're a better man than most, and a far better person than me! I've known those paralysing moments all too well, have lived with the grip of inertia and fear and mounting depression around my throat, preventing me from taking the action that my logical mind told me I should... sometimes not managing to at all, other times managing to only a long way down the line, after countless false-starts and failures and the surging self-hatred for my own weakness and inability to act at the time. I've lived that, I know how it feels, and I've seen how it looks on the outside. And I've had many conversations with many close friends who've lived through the same, and yes, some have been MMs struggling to leave, knowing it was "right" and what they wanted to do... but unable to, afraid to drive a stake into the heart of the woman they M who still believed his heart belonged to her; afraid to show her family, his family, their friends, that he had failed at playing grown up and raising a family; confused and conflicted between the lure of love and the demands of duty, as a man and provider; overwhelmed and increasingly incapacitated by the creeping tendrils of depression winding around his ankle as the enormity of his choice, and his inability to act on it, played on his mind...

 

I've seen it. I've lived it. Be grateful you haven't, and try not to reject too quickly those of us who have.

 

 

 

Again, I don't agree. Perhaps, for some, in the very short term, to prevent an ending he is not yet ready for... but at least some of these MM want the M to end, and they want the BW to pull the plug that they're feeling too conflicted (or whatever) to pull themselves... but they want that to happen when they're ready for it. They need to be confident that all their (emotional, logistical, or whatever) ducks are in a row before that happens. They're not happy to leap off into the unknown - if they were, there'd have been no DDay, they'd simply have left long before. DDay happens when the WS is not yet ready to leave (either the A, or the M).

 

And it's very much self-preservation. The MM doesn't know what the BW may or may not do to him. He has awfulised it so much in his own mind he has lost all rational sense of perspective on that scenario - all he knows is that the unthinkable is happening and he wants, somehow, anyhow, to regain some of his lost sense of control.

Thus the need to 'choose to save the M', or at least make it appear that way until he has regained a sense of control.

 

The most excellent post OWoman.

 

I think those who see in black and white often don't get that many have inner struggles in general be it chemical imbalance, emotional trauma from childhood, etc. For these people it appears the A itself was the only struggle they ever had and if THAT can be dealt with, great, move on...life is good again.

 

But for many, there are deep rooted issues, whether chemical or emotional, and they will always have to be dealt with which can never be a quick-fix solution. Boy, don't I wish it could be!

 

Getting back to the blame game, I do think that when a WH blames the OW he is most likely honestly trying to save his M even if his tactics don't gel. So far, I have not seen my MM do any blame-shifting...that I know of.

[White Flower]

i'm not on anyone's "side", per se'. just look at the bigger picture from a view of being honest. honesty helps to determine what is ACTUALLY going on - instead of what pretending gets you... which is usually just jerked around...

 

i rarely think telling the wife is advantageous... but in Jennie's case - it seems that her MM may leave it like this forever.

 

IF that is all well and good with her - then i say don't tell. IF she wants to know the wife's truth then have an honest conversation. he may reveal what he REALLY intends to do this way.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

[2sunny]

all i can tell you is:

 

if your MM isn't willing to be honest about his willingness to spend effort and energy with you - HE has given you the evidence YOU need to understand fully that HE isn't a man of honesty and integrity.

 

what you choose to believe about him is YOUR choice...

[jennie-jennie]

all i can tell you is:

 

if your MM isn't willing to be honest about his willingness to spend effort and energy with you - HE has given you the evidence YOU need to understand fully that HE isn't a man of honesty and integrity.

 

what you choose to believe about him is YOUR choice...

 

How did we get from "When MP blames A on OP" to the above?

 

Let's get back on topic.

[jthorne]

then you REALLY know nothing, yet... my best suggestion is to sit down with her and be honest. she may be able to help you understand way more than you think, if you're honest.

 

then, and only then, will you know what you really need to know, and what you have been afraid to know.

 

you owe this to her and to yourself. it will determine what is BEST for YOUR future. it will help her with HER future too. if MM intends to love you - he shouldn't have a problem with this at all... the pretending goes away and all three deal with the reality of what the future may bring - based on honesty, not lies and deception.

 

can you do that, for yourself and the best interest of all involved?

To relate this to the topic, it has to be considered that if this conversation actually took place, the MM could throw the OW under the bus, minimize the A, or blame her, right?

[pureinheart]

I'm assuming from this, Owl, that you've never been depressed. Or afraid. Or just plain overwhelmed and confused. That you've never had that moment as a kid of being expected to join in the teasing of the geeky kid, knowing you shouldn't and feeling you don't want to, but knowing that if you don't, tomorrow they will all be teasing you... Never really really liked someone, and been under pressure to have sex with them to show that you really really like them, but felt not ready or not right or uncomfortable about it... Never faced a depressed parent who was feeling that their whole life had been a failure, wanting to tell them somehow that it was OK but frozen by your own anger in your heart at all their parenting mistakes and the toll it had taken on you...

 

If you have never been paralysed by very deep conflict or fear or powerlessness, and have always no matter what the situation and what (your fears or distorted perceptions of) the personal risks to yourself still managed to act swiftly and decisively and without regret fully authentically and in keeping with your morals and values - well done, Owl! You're a better man than most, and a far better person than me! I've known those paralysing moments all too well, have lived with the grip of inertia and fear and mounting depression around my throat, preventing me from taking the action that my logical mind told me I should... sometimes not managing to at all, other times managing to only a long way down the line, after countless false-starts and failures and the surging self-hatred for my own weakness and inability to act at the time. I've lived that, I know how it feels, and I've seen how it looks on the outside. And I've had many conversations with many close friends who've lived through the same, and yes, some have been MMs struggling to leave, knowing it was "right" and what they wanted to do... but unable to, afraid to drive a stake into the heart of the woman they M who still believed his heart belonged to her; afraid to show her family, his family, their friends, that he had failed at playing grown up and raising a family; confused and conflicted between the lure of love and the demands of duty, as a man and provider; overwhelmed and increasingly incapacitated by the creeping tendrils of depression winding around his ankle as the enormity of his choice, and his inability to act on it, played on his mind...

 

I've seen it. I've lived it. Be grateful you haven't, and try not to reject too quickly those of us who have.

 

 

 

Again, I don't agree. Perhaps, for some, in the very short term, to prevent an ending he is not yet ready for... but at least some of these MM want the M to end, and they want the BW to pull the plug that they're feeling too conflicted (or whatever) to pull themselves... but they want that to happen when they're ready for it. They need to be confident that all their (emotional, logistical, or whatever) ducks are in a row before that happens. They're not happy to leap off into the unknown - if they were, there'd have been no DDay, they'd simply have left long before. DDay happens when the WS is not yet ready to leave (either the A, or the M).

 

And it's very much self-preservation. The MM doesn't know what the BW may or may not do to him. He has awfulised it so much in his own mind he has lost all rational sense of perspective on that scenario - all he knows is that the unthinkable is happening and he wants, somehow, anyhow, to regain some of his lost sense of control.

 

First, this post is very profound. Thank you for explaining (bold paragraghs) what I couldn't put into words, but understood to be the truth of my sitch and others on this board.

 

I went back and forth from understanding to anger as to his inability to leave, but deep down understood...I felt jaded because he didn't leave and still sought to keep the M together even after they had separated.

 

Once he got on that road of D (and I wasn't there 24/7, so am speculating based on his words) he seemed to want to stay on it, it was like he was glad to "forced" at times.

 

I don't think we can "lump" R's into a neat package of "excuses"...sometimes they are not "excuses", sometimes they really don't know what to do and are afraid. I saw the fear in exDM...it was horrible...the only place he felt safe was at work...in his own words..."I feel safe here, "they" can't get me.

Edited August 28, 2010 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

I no longer accept the variety issue. There is a reason for variety but it isn't variety itself usually; they are looking for something deeper such as true intimacy and when they find it they are able to stop with the variety trend.

 

Totally agree with this WF...even though exDM had many EMA's throughout the 30 yrs he was M'ed, there was something very different with our R. Without going into too much, he had his little "spots" that he would frequent, always keeping his options open. I noticed these drop off to the degree that he did not care to have EMR's any longer.

 

Please keep in mind that we were friends FIRST, and he told me everything, even stuff he won't admit to now.

 

Want to add that I am not trying to come off as "I'm all that", and even though things didn't work out, I did show him a side of life that I know he's never seen. I know that when he is ready to "shop around", this time his criteria will be different.

[White Flower]

 

Totally agree with this WF...even though exDM had many EMA's throughout the 30 yrs he was M'ed, there was something very different with our R. Without going into too much, he had his little "spots" that he would frequent, always keeping his options open. I noticed these drop off to the degree that he did not care to have EMR's any longer.

 

Please keep in mind that we were friends FIRST, and he told me everything, even stuff he won't admit to now.

 

Want to add that I am not trying to come off as "I'm all that", and even though things didn't work out, I did show him a side of life that I know he's never seen. I know that when he is ready to "shop around", this time his criteria will be different.

Good posts Pure.

 

I does not come off as you 'being all that'. We know what we know based on talks, eye contact, triangulation, and other evidence. We know when we're being snowed.

 

I know my MM tried to snow me the first couple of years...and then I showed him something new. But I had to reveal something of myself I'd never revealed before...and he responded. We connected on a deeper level than I think most do.

 

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks anyway, we knew what happened and that's all that matters.

 

Now back on topic.

[fooled once]

WF - a lot of people stay married knowing they may not be right together - but mainly because they honestly love each other. it may not be that they are anything close to being ideal for each other - but just that they have loved each other a long time and on some levels and that is enough... enough to continue with it as it is... and to understand that it is enough to be happy enough to continue staying.

 

i have counseled many couples and this is the way they see their life. ideal or not - they are still happy enough - for THEM. would it be enough for me? not a chance.

 

you wouldn't believe how many folks stay and beg for it to continue when it looks far from even slightly happy to me. so i know it's not for me to say what happy looks like for others - and what they are willing to settle for in order to keep up the appearances or priorities that are important to THEM. and some just don't want to give up the familiar life they lead - even if it's completely horrible... THAT i'll never understand. but many - just don't want to be alone. THAT, to me, is sad.

 

EXCELLENT post 2sunny!

 

Projection, maybe? Its pretty widely accepted wisdom that married people in affairs tear down their spouses to the OP - and not always in a direct way. My H swore that he never said a bad word about me to his co-worker, but her first words to me were that she didn't know "my side". So its clear the image he painted of me was not flattering.

 

Given that the MP and OP do this to the spouse, I can't understand why its a problem when the MP turns around and does it to the MP.

 

Either way, if I were the OP that was being blamed, I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care about what it means to that couple or what it says about the W or the H. I wouldn't care that they are keeping up appearances. Its not my marriage to be worried about.

 

Maybe I just have a bad case of apathy. I just don't think worrying about what someone else may be saying of me and my actions in the past is all that important. Especially under these circumstances though. Its not likely to keep me from getting a job, or from feeding my children - so its not important to me.

 

(An aside: I am well aware that everyone doesn't feel the way that I do. Sharing my thoughts on the subject here does not mean that I don't think the thread should be started or whatever. I would not have started the thread as I don't care, but since its been started, I want to share my limited thoughts on it, like everyone else. I am not posting this to tell others that their opinions are stupid because they shouldn't care like I don't. Free and open speech works both ways. One cares about the subject and posts that they care, one doesn't and posts that they don't. Not right or wrong, just different.)

 

LOL NiD - the bolded should be the disclaimer on every 'non-agreeing with the post" post

 

Exactly. When someone you love lies about you or doesn't protect you, it hurts, regardless of the rhyme or reason.

 

Yes it does Hazy, yes it does. ((hug))

 

What makes you think he was being honest with the OW in the first place? If the OW was ever the priority, the MM would have left his wife, IMO.

 

To continue to hide his relationship with the OW, a MM is already showing the same if not more disrespect to the OW as he is his wife. He is doing whatever he can to preserve the marriage for whatever reason. That in itself should tell an OW that she isn't as much of a priority as the MM and him doing whatever he wants to do.

 

When the MM stays it's because it is what he wants to do. If he wanted to be with the OW, he would. Just take a look at the divorce rate and you will see that many people leave unhappy marriages for many reasons. Not impossible.

 

exactly hereinnow. Seems like very much a double standard. Okay to lie to the wife, but not okay to lie to the OW. Even though the wife was the main relationship until the affair; even though the MM stays married and has an affair; even though the MM once loved his wife so very much. I think SOME OW (OW in general) forget that.

[GreenEyedLady]

To relate this to the topic, it has to be considered that if this conversation actually took place, the MM could throw the OW under the bus, minimize the A, or blame her, right?

 

Or how about, D, not say anything, W is still wondering and leave the M.

 

I'm really tired of he never leaves.

 

Men leave, period.

 

To say that NEVER happens is a delusion.

 

It also hurts people who HAVE been left. And makes them feel like there's something wrong with them because their spouse DID leave.

 

I'm sick of this thinking.

 

Another thing I'm tired of hearing is that married people ALWAYS have sex.

 

How many BS's have felt completely betrayed because their spouse DID NOT WANT to have sex with them because they felt they were betraying their AP and THEY LOVE THEM?

 

LET'S GET REAL PEOPLE!

 

Continuing this fallacy that MM never leave and the M is always fought for is just a wish.

 

And sex after marriage is a dream for a majority of married couples.

 

GEL

[SidLyon]

Or how about, D, not say anything, W is still wondering and leave the M.

 

I'm really tired of he never leaves.

 

Men leave, period.

 

To say that NEVER happens is a delusion.

 

It also hurts people who HAVE been left. And makes them feel like there's something wrong with them because their spouse DID leave.

 

I'm sick of this thinking.

 

Another thing I'm tired of hearing is that married people ALWAYS have sex.

 

How many BS's have felt completely betrayed because their spouse DID NOT WANT to have sex with them because they felt they were betraying their AP and THEY LOVE THEM?

 

LET'S GET REAL PEOPLE!

 

Continuing this fallacy that MM never leave and the M is always fought for is just a wish.

 

And sex after marriage is a dream for a majority of married couples.

 

GEL

 

I really wish there were reliable statistics about this.

 

There are certainly statistics on infidelity in marriage and divorce but we are always left to speculate the extent to which they are linked (must be a strong link surely?) and we never really know whether the WS left of their own accord or were kicked out by the BS.

 

In real life I have been to numerous weddings that are first time for both, and numerous that were 2nd (or more) for one or both parties. I also know of numerous marriages that have ended due to infidelity.

 

However I have only ever been to one wedding where I know for a fact that the MM left his BW for the OW and then married the OW. What's more I know of very few marriages that have successfully survived known infidelity. Could this be because people don't publicize these sorts of things or because it doesn't happen very often? This I simply don't know.

 

The popular theory seems to be that in general MM don't leave their wives for their APs. It has happened to some posters here on LS. Obviously LS is a highly skewed sample in that most people posting here are either BW/fBW/OW/fOW with a few others thrown in to the mix. There are one or 2 posters that seem to be outside the norm not only in real life but here on LS too. Their individual experiences add to the flavour and lively discussion.

 

It's probably frustrating to many of us that we cannot draw too many absolutely reliable conclusions from either the statistics available or from the individual experiences of posters.

 

The sex life of married couples is another area with unreliable statistics. With the advent of children our sex life dropped and was used as a reason/excuse for my fWH's affair. It didn't cease completely but became less frequent. Since d-day nearly 2 years ago our frequency now exceeds when we were dating and would probably be the envy of many.

[GreenEyedLady]

Sid,

 

You are right, when you look at LS.

 

But go to SI, a betrayed spouse majority forum and the stats are much different.

 

It is a better sample of life I think.

 

Many good people have spouses who leave them.

 

To say that never happens is just wrong. Many people leave their marriages: betrayed, wayward and just fed up.

 

I think it is completely heartless to say that MM never leave their M's because it is apparent that they do in reality.

 

And how many people who are married who you know are dissatisified with their sex life in general? I'm sure you know at least one person or more if you are being honest.

 

I think it is particularly heartless to say MM never leave because their are so many W's out there who have lost their spouse. It has nothing to do with them. And to suggest that it never happens makes them feel as if there is something wrong with them when that is not the case.

 

In fact that probably keeps many from not posting because they think they are an aberration and not the norm.

 

I just think the whole thing sucks because in reality, people cheat, some divorce, some reconcile and some find peace with the whole thing.

 

And I really think telling OW that they are immoral, are settling and will never find true love is simply WRONG.

 

Some men aren't cowards and WILL follow their heart and mind and soul.

 

And sometimes the person who is settling is the woman who KNOWS her H is sleeping with another woman, and doesn't care as long as the paycheck is deposited in the bank account and he attends a certain amount of family functions.

 

GEL

[jennie-jennie]

correct me if i have you confused with another poster, but did you not believe you had an exclusive sexual relationship with the married man you are seeing, yet recently found out he was actually having sex with his wife? so he hasn't severed the relationship with his wife completely; so in some ways, he has gone back to/stayed with the wife, even while acting/telling you that you are his primary relationship. do you not feel betrayed by that admission of his (regarding having sex with his wife)?

 

This was a blip in our exclusivity. (She still thinks he has ED by the way.) What happened was that she reached out to him for sex. We had previously had an agreement of exclusivity with the exception if she reached out to him. I had expressed I wanted to change that part of our agreement, but apparently not clearly enough. He knows that now.

 

I do not feel betrayed by this one-time sex occasion with his wife. I know why he did it. Because he wanted to keep the facade up. It has changed nothing between us.

 

as for you believing it would be strange for him to fall out of love with you; do you not see how his wife would feel the same way, that she could too be saying to her friends that it would be hard for her to believe that her husband fell out of love with her or had an affair?

 

It would not be strange for him to fall out of love with me, what I considered to be strange was to" fall out of love with me and into love with his wife again"

not to be sarcastic, so excuse me if i come off that way, but how do you know what a married man thinks/feels? you are not a man. how can you understand what a married man does and thinks? it is like i can sympathize and empathize with someone during a hard time, but unless i am them and living all aspects of their life, i have no way of knowing exactly what they are thinking and feeling. even with a married relationship, as much as you know your spouse and can finish their sentence, someone else besides the person feeling it cannot 100% understand it or know it.

 

As I said, through the thousands of hours of conversations about this very subject, the being torn between the marriage and the extramarital relationship, something the wife is not even aware of is happening in the MM's life, let alone talking to him about.

 

jennie-jennie, could you not also say the same thing about the other woman? replace wife with other woman and i would venture to guess that the wife feels the same thing you are feeling.

 

The MM is concealing a large part of his life for the wife, but not for the OW.

 

jennie-jennie, repeat what i wrote to you above; replace betrayed spouse with other woman.

 

Not replaceable, since I was talking about something the OW has but the wife doesn't.

[OWoman]

The BS that is left by the WS is usually better off without the cheater eventually.

 

I'd like to believe that this is true, and I think in most cases it is. Living with someone who loves another, and is staying with you out of duty / obligation / duress cannot be affirming and must surely wear away at your soul. Being dumped may hurt initially, but ultimately it frees you to love yourself, and perhaps to find someone you can love and who can love you as you feel you deserve.

 

I hope my H's xW does manage to stick IC out this time and does find peace.

 

If the WS leaves, the OP deserves the person they get.

 

:love: A devoted, caring, kind, respectful, authentic, honest, intelligent, committed, passionate, creative, inspiring, fun, daring, gregarious, helpful, eager, charming, sweet, sexy, interesting, thoughtful and wise man, and the world's best lover? :love: :love: You bet I deserve him!!

[OWoman]

However I have only ever been to one wedding where I know for a fact that the MM left his BW for the OW and then married the OW. What's more I know of very few marriages that have successfully survived known infidelity. Could this be because people don't publicize these sorts of things or because it doesn't happen very often? This I simply don't know.

 

I guess it depends on the circles you move in, and the attitudes within those. In some circles I'm sure it doesn't happen very much; in others I'm sure it may happen but not ever be mentioned; and in other circles, people discuss these things freely and there is no need perceived not to be open about these matters, so people are.

 

Among people I know well enough to know these sorts of things, I know several couples whose M started out as an A; although the city I grew up in was several million big, the circles I moved in seemed stiflingly incestuous at times and so everyone knew everyone's business and most people were connected by one or two degrees (a random woman you meet being as likely to be an X of one of your Xs as not; a random guy you meet being as likely as not to be the current, or X, of one of your Xs currents or Xs). Successfully reconciled Ms, I'd have to say I know fewer of those but there are a few. Mostly, though, people move on to others, or simply close their eyes and carry on as before, staying M but never recovering the M in the sense of there being anything but a piece of paper connecting the spouses.

 

That said, if some random person approached me in the streets with a questionnaire and wanted my R history, would I be honest with them? Not a chance - I'd tell them to fornicate off, that it was none of their business. As, I'm sure, would many if not most people. So accurate stats are unlikely ever to materialise...

[Summer Breeze]

The BS that is left by the WS is usually better off without the cheater eventually. If the WS leaves, the OP deserves the person they get.

 

It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats goes on to cheat again. It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats is the spawn of Satan (unless they reconcile of course).

 

My exH cheated and has been married to his OW since. He did all the classic moves such as throwing her under the bus and doing his best to flip flop and get back to his family. At the end of the day he did everything that MM are villified in here for and I ended up making up his mind for him. When he finally accepted it he went off and married her and they've been together since. I know her family and by all accounts they're happy and his brother has told me he's stayed faithful.

 

He is, and was, a good guy. Don't get me wrong I had moments I hated him almost as much as I had loved him. But he wasn't in love with me anymore and no matter what I did it wasn't going to change. Knowing him he would probably have come back to me and been faithful but I would always know his heart wasn't mine. I let him go. I made him go and in doing that he saw it was ok. We had a talk a few years after and he actually thanked me for knowing what was best for him.

 

Sorry that was longer than I'd expected but what I was getting to is that he was a good man. He did something that hurt me and ruined our family. That made him stupid but it didn't make him bad. It didn't mean that he'd do the same to someone else.

 

The OW in my exHs A got the man she loved and the relationship she wanted. She done good for herself in that one. From the people I've encountered in my years and the things I've read in here I think most MM/MW aren't ogres and they are often worth holding onto, by whichever gets them, the BS or the OW/OM.

[WTFBBQ]

What are your thoughts experiences on WS blaming the OP?

IMO, this thread should be renamed "Lies the OW tells herself to avoid responsibility."

An affair requires two people, both equally responsible for their choices. The WS is entitled to call the OP on their part.

[crazycatlady]

It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats goes on to cheat again. It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats is the spawn of Satan (unless they reconcile of course).

 

My exH cheated and has been married to his OW since. He did all the classic moves such as throwing her under the bus and doing his best to flip flop and get back to his family. At the end of the day he did everything that MM are villified in here for and I ended up making up his mind for him. When he finally accepted it he went off and married her and they've been together since. I know her family and by all accounts they're happy and his brother has told me he's stayed faithful.

 

He is, and was, a good guy. Don't get me wrong I had moments I hated him almost as much as I had loved him. But he wasn't in love with me anymore and no matter what I did it wasn't going to change. Knowing him he would probably have come back to me and been faithful but I would always know his heart wasn't mine. I let him go. I made him go and in doing that he saw it was ok. We had a talk a few years after and he actually thanked me for knowing what was best for him.

 

Sorry that was longer than I'd expected but what I was getting to is that he was a good man. He did something that hurt me and ruined our family. That made him stupid but it didn't make him bad. It didn't mean that he'd do the same to someone else.

 

The OW in my exHs A got the man she loved and the relationship she wanted. She done good for herself in that one. From the people I've encountered in my years and the things I've read in here I think most MM/MW aren't ogres and they are often worth holding onto, by whichever gets them, the BS or the OW/OM.

 

Summer - interesting.. I can understand how you are thinking (or at least I can follow your thinking here) a great deal. Though I told him if he wanted me to leave I would (given our situation and income levels etc and the good of the children, I would be the one to leave) and when he told me he did not I accepted and believed him.

Edited August 29, 2010 by crazycatlady
clarity

[Summer Breeze]

a cowardly conflict avoider with no morals nor character who would rather screw something on the side than work or his marriage or end it? If that's what you think you deserve, then it's a match made in heaven.

 

Serious question here. If I'm not mistaken you're a BS that is reconciling with your WS. Have you gotten what you deserve since that's your opinion of a person who cheats?

[Silly_Girl]

a cowardly conflict avoider with no morals nor character who would rather screw something on the side than work or his marriage or end it? If that's what you think you deserve, then it's a match made in heaven.

 

How very rude!!! How the hell do you think he came to be in a happy marriage with OWoman if he DIDN'T end his marriage??

 

....Unless she clubbed him over the head and dragged him back to her cave and has kept him there against his will ever since.

 

:rolleyes:

[Silly_Girl]

Rude? Cheating is rude, not I.

 

As I said, if a conflict avoider with no morals is what she wanted, then that's what she got.

 

All cheaters get what they deserve in the end. If it's each other, then so be it.

 

That's not all you said. You also intimated that he had remained married. How annoying is it when facts get in the way of a good bitching?!!

[crazycatlady]

Rude? Cheating is rude, not I.

 

As I said, if a conflict avoider with no morals is what she wanted, then that's what she got.

 

All cheaters get what they deserve in the end. If it's each other, then so be it.

 

So as long as you aren't cheating you can behave in any manner and its not rude.....Nice, I'll remember that so I can cut people off in the car, give the woman riding in the fast lane below the speed limit a well deserved middle finger, tell the person who bumped into me to f-off. But as long as I'm not cheating, I'm not being rude.

 

What a load of crock.

 

How easy life must be when everything is either black or white and there is nothing in between to make life difficult....or fun for that matter.

[September]

It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats goes on to cheat again. It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats is the spawn of Satan (unless they reconcile of course).

 

My exH cheated and has been married to his OW since. He did all the classic moves such as throwing her under the bus and doing his best to flip flop and get back to his family. At the end of the day he did everything that MM are villified in here for and I ended up making up his mind for him. When he finally accepted it he went off and married her and they've been together since. I know her family and by all accounts they're happy and his brother has told me he's stayed faithful.

 

He is, and was, a good guy. Don't get me wrong I had moments I hated him almost as much as I had loved him. But he wasn't in love with me anymore and no matter what I did it wasn't going to change. Knowing him he would probably have come back to me and been faithful but I would always know his heart wasn't mine. I let him go. I made him go and in doing that he saw it was ok. We had a talk a few years after and he actually thanked me for knowing what was best for him.

 

Sorry that was longer than I'd expected but what I was getting to is that he was a good man. He did something that hurt me and ruined our family. That made him stupid but it didn't make him bad. It didn't mean that he'd do the same to someone else.

 

The OW in my exHs A got the man she loved and the relationship she wanted. She done good for herself in that one. From the people I've encountered in my years and the things I've read in here I think most MM/MW aren't ogres and they are often worth holding onto, by whichever gets them, the BS or the OW/OM.

 

That is a great post. I really admire you for being so honest in assessing the state of your marriage at that time.

 

I get along now with my xH, better than we ever have and we have no intentions of getting back together. We were able to separate maturely, keep our children really happy and not pull our friends and family into any drama's.