When MP blames A on OP

[bentnotbroken]

So as long as you aren't cheating you can behave in any manner and its not rude.....Nice, I'll remember that so I can cut people off in the car, give the woman riding in the fast lane below the speed limit a well deserved middle finger, tell the person who bumped into me to f-off. But as long as I'm not cheating, I'm not being rude.

 

What a load of crock.

 

How easy life must be when everything is either black or white and there is nothing in between to make life difficult....or fun for that matter.

 

 

For some of us life is just that, by choice. It has neither made life difficult nor boring. It is what you expect out of life and the control of which direction you are going to take. Just sayin.

[crazycatlady]

For some of us life is just that, by choice. It has neither made life difficult nor boring. It is what you expect out of life and the control of which direction you are going to take. Just sayin.

 

Seeing the world as black and white .... you miss out on all the lovely shades of gray. Of people being human which makes life interesting. I've seen so few situations where I could say without a doubt that it was wrong and is always wrong, without looking at the other side to see their point of view.

 

I can not help but look at both sides, and see all the shades that are in between the two sides. I just can't grasp the black and white. I can't imagine why you would even want to. I know children tend to look at life in very simplistic terms of black and white....I always felt they were growing up when they could realize that there is actually a whole world of gray out there, two sides to every story plus the truth, and maybe there just isn't a stock answer for every situation.

[bentnotbroken]

Seeing the world as black and white .... you miss out on all the lovely shades of gray. Of people being human which makes life interesting. I've seen so few situations where I could say without a doubt that it was wrong and is always wrong, without looking at the other side to see their point of view.

 

I can not help but look at both sides, and see all the shades that are in between the two sides. I just can't grasp the black and white. I can't imagine why you would even want to. I know children tend to look at life in very simplistic terms of black and white....I always felt they were growing up when they could realize that there is actually a whole world of gray out there, two sides to every story plus the truth, and maybe there just isn't a stock answer for every situation.

 

 

You imply that I don't see the shades of gray. I do. I just chose not to live my life that way. I pray for clarity and I get it. That not to say I don't make mistakes, but I am clear in my decisions. I am not lukewarm. I am an "either or person". As long as I my belief system is based on the Word of God, for me that is it is "right or wrong" (ie. black and white). I can't imagine why anyone would want to live their lives in the gray. It doesn't bother me that there are people out there who view life as you do. It makes for interesting reading, but I don't have to follow suit. And I am sure you feel similiarly about my point of view.

[NoIDidn't]

Seeing the world as black and white .... you miss out on all the lovely shades of gray.

 

Gray is such a dull color when compared to the boldness of either Black or White.

 

Black and white are clearly on opposite sides. Gray is just gray.

[White Flower]

It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats goes on to cheat again. It's a huge misconception that everyone who cheats is the spawn of Satan (unless they reconcile of course).

 

My exH cheated and has been married to his OW since. He did all the classic moves such as throwing her under the bus and doing his best to flip flop and get back to his family. At the end of the day he did everything that MM are villified in here for and I ended up making up his mind for him. When he finally accepted it he went off and married her and they've been together since. I know her family and by all accounts they're happy and his brother has told me he's stayed faithful.

 

He is, and was, a good guy. Don't get me wrong I had moments I hated him almost as much as I had loved him. But he wasn't in love with me anymore and no matter what I did it wasn't going to change. Knowing him he would probably have come back to me and been faithful but I would always know his heart wasn't mine. I let him go. I made him go and in doing that he saw it was ok. We had a talk a few years after and he actually thanked me for knowing what was best for him.

 

Sorry that was longer than I'd expected but what I was getting to is that he was a good man. He did something that hurt me and ruined our family. That made him stupid but it didn't make him bad. It didn't mean that he'd do the same to someone else.

 

The OW in my exHs A got the man she loved and the relationship she wanted. She done good for herself in that one. From the people I've encountered in my years and the things I've read in here I think most MM/MW aren't ogres and they are often worth holding onto, by whichever gets them, the BS or the OW/OM.

Summer Breeze what a rare and honest post. Your acceptance of the truth is commendable and inspiring. I am sure it has helped you to move on to better things in your life.

[White Flower]

IMO, this thread should be renamed "Lies the OW tells herself to avoid responsibility."

An affair requires two people, both equally responsible for their choices. The WS is entitled to call the OP on their part.

It doesn't matter what the OP is telling him/herself; we're discussing the dynamic of misplaced blame and how it helps or hurts a recovering M. Why must you assume otherwise?

[White Flower]

That is a great post. I really admire you for being so honest in assessing the state of your marriage at that time.

 

I get along now with my xH, better than we ever have and we have no intentions of getting back together. We were able to separate maturely, keep our children really happy and not pull our friends and family into any drama's.

Another example of keeping your stuff between yourselves for the betterment of the children and family overall. Very impressive.

[White Flower]

Gray is such a dull color when compared to the boldness of either Black or White.

 

Black and white are clearly on opposite sides. Gray is just gray.

Not when there are many shades of it;)

[White Flower]

I really wish there were reliable statistics about this.

 

There are certainly statistics on infidelity in marriage and divorce but we are always left to speculate the extent to which they are linked (must be a strong link surely?) and we never really know whether the WS left of their own accord or were kicked out by the BS.

 

In real life I have been to numerous weddings that are first time for both, and numerous that were 2nd (or more) for one or both parties. I also know of numerous marriages that have ended due to infidelity.

 

However I have only ever been to one wedding where I know for a fact that the MM left his BW for the OW and then married the OW. What's more I know of very few marriages that have successfully survived known infidelity. Could this be because people don't publicize these sorts of things or because it doesn't happen very often? This I simply don't know.

 

The popular theory seems to be that in general MM don't leave their wives for their APs. It has happened to some posters here on LS. Obviously LS is a highly skewed sample in that most people posting here are either BW/fBW/OW/fOW with a few others thrown in to the mix. There are one or 2 posters that seem to be outside the norm not only in real life but here on LS too. Their individual experiences add to the flavour and lively discussion.

 

It's probably frustrating to many of us that we cannot draw too many absolutely reliable conclusions from either the statistics available or from the individual experiences of posters.

 

The sex life of married couples is another area with unreliable statistics. With the advent of children our sex life dropped and was used as a reason/excuse for my fWH's affair. It didn't cease completely but became less frequent. Since d-day nearly 2 years ago our frequency now exceeds when we were dating and would probably be the envy of many.

Nice to see an honest and introspective post from the other camp:cool:.

 

The part BBM resonates with me for many reasons. I live in a country that is known to be puritanical to the outside world and for good reason I admit. We're openly emotional, touchy-feely, and overly outspoken. These traits lead to a very opinionated culture and sometimes within this kind of atmosphere we must be protective of our history lest we be verbally stoned and speared with daggers of opinion.

 

To simplify it, we don't admit the A upon remarriage because we still feel the need to protect our image in this country. I happen not to care so much, but I know MM would do everything in his power to prevent others from knowing. His own W is a stone-thrower and he would feel the need to protect me from her and her type. We would not be the remarrying couple whose wedding guests would know our R began as an A. Well, all my friends would know, but his wouldn't.

 

My brother's exW M his best friend. Scandalous! But nobody on wedding day #2 knew the origin of their R. Protection all the way.

 

A friend of mine cheated on her H and remarried her OM. She moved hell and high water to keep her exH a very close friend in order to have him protect her secret. He came to all family functions, holiday dinners and even the birthday parties of the child she had with her second H. Yes, this happens in many relationships all over the world, but I happen to know she set hers up for reasons of protecting her reputation.

 

MM has told me many times that after D or even widowhood he would wait at least a year to let the dust settle before he paraded me in front of family and friends in order to prevent anyone of ever having the chance at blaming me for the breakup of his M because some people, sadly, still blame the OP when marriages break up. And he just doesn't want to give anyone a chance at that if he can prevent it.

[silktricks]

It doesn't matter what the OP is telling him/herself; we're discussing the dynamic of misplaced blame and how it helps or hurts a recovering M. Why must you assume otherwise?

 

Is that really what we were discussing? How it hurts or helps a recovering marriage? It seemed to me that much of the discussion was more along the lines of whether or not the OW was hurt by it.

[Owl]

It doesn't matter what the OP is telling him/herself; we're discussing the dynamic of misplaced blame and how it helps or hurts a recovering M. Why must you assume otherwise?

 

I think that part of the contention here is clearly whether or not that blame IS "misplaced"...and whether or not the MM is deliberately blaming the OW to avoid persecution, or whether or not HE believes what he's saying when he blames the OW.

 

OW/OM clearly participated in the affair. Whether or not they felt that they participated in the deception or betrayal of the BS, they were still a component in the affair itself.

 

The question I think that this thread raises is whether or not WS believes that the OW/OM truly has any "blame" as a result of their part in the affair. When he "throws them under the bus"...does HE believe what he's saying, or is he just saying it to save his butt?

 

Granted not every OW/OM is "thrown under the bus". My wife never "threw OM under the bus" in my situation. Interestingly enough, as a result of some horrible times one of my sons is going through, the discussion of blaming the OM in our situation came up this weekend. She absolutely blames herself more for what happened than she does him. I still spread the blame (in my mind) between the two of them, given his attempted "friendship" with me.

 

I think that there's a decent mix of reasons why things go the way they do on d-day.

 

I think that sometimes the WS is clearly trying to cover himself, and the OW/OM makes a scapegoat he can use to avoid taking the all the blame himself.

 

I think sometimes they believe that the OW/OM is partially responsible.

 

And sometimes, they accept all the blame themselves...whether or not anyone else blames them entirely.

 

As far as whether or not that blame is "misplaced"...that pretty much depends entirely on your point of view.

[silktricks]

This depends on how you look at it. There is no law against making a move at married people. It is up to the married person to honor their vows.

 

This is, of course, quite true. There is no law against making a move at a married person, nor is there a law against the married person taking one up on the move.

 

However, if the "move" is made coincidentally at a low spot in the MP life (whether known or unknown to the mover ) by someone who knows the object of the move is married, it is quite conceivable that the MP at a later time will then "blame" (I still hate that word) the OW/OM for the affair. The MP may "know" (whether true or not) that had the move not been made at that time that the affair would not have happened.

 

So then, is the blame misplaced? I doubt the MM would say it is - and probably the BW would agree with the MM. The OW? Based upon what I've read here, most would probably say the blame is misplaced, that the responsibility lies in total with the married person for not turning down the "move".

Edited August 30, 2010 by silktricks

[Summer Breeze]

This is, of course, quite true. There is no law against making a move at a married person, nor is there a law against the married person taking one up on the move.

 

However, if the "move" is made coincidentally at a low spot in the MP life (whether known or unknown to the mover ) by someone who knows the object of the move is married, it is quite conceivable that the MP at a later time will then "blame" (I still hate that word) the OW/OM for the affair. The MP may "know" (whether true or not) that had the move not been made at that time that the affair would not have happened.

 

So then, is the blame misplaced? I doubt the MM would say it is - and probably the BW would agree with the MM. The OW? Based upon what I've read here, most would probably say the blame is misplaced, that the responsibility lies in total with the married person for not turning down the "move".

 

 

Because the responsibility does lie there.

 

If someone stole a car, gave me the keys and said here's a stolen car-enjoy, would I blame them if I chose to take the keys and drive the car? No. The decision to take the car wen offered would be mine.

[donnamaybe]

Because the responsibility does lie there.

 

If someone stole a car, gave me the keys and said here's a stolen car-enjoy, would I blame them if I chose to take the keys and drive the car? No. The decision to take the car wen offered would be mine.

And you would then be charged with receiving stolen property.

[Summer Breeze]

And you would then be charged with receiving stolen property.

 

Exactly but if I said no I would have done nothing wrong. The person trying their hardest to give me the keys wouldn't be successful. A married person never says yes to a move and there won't be an A.

 

I'm sorry to say it's that simple but it is.

[silktricks]

Because the responsibility does lie there.

 

:lmao: :lmao: Well, as I said, the OW will believe it does in total. The MM

maybe not so much.

[Summer Breeze]

:lmao: :lmao: Well, as I said, the OW will believe it does in total. The MM

maybe not so much.

 

As a BS I believed it was with him in total as well. I didn't really care who he wanted to blame because it didn't matter. He committed the act.

[silktricks]

As a BS I believed it was with him in total as well. I didn't really care who he wanted to blame because it didn't matter. He committed the act.

 

But that wasn't the point of what I said either . The point was what the MM may think.

[Summer Breeze]

But that wasn't the point of what I said either . The point was what the MM may think.

 

I knew what you meant I just think it's irrelevent. He can blame an OW all he wants but at the end of the day it was his decision. No one deserves the blame but him.

 

There are many contributing factors. In my M I did a few things that left my M wide open to him having an A. The OW was someone who was divorcing and I knew her. She told me she was starting to see someone but he was married. It was my H. He probably didn't feel warm and fuzzy in the M and she made it easy but he is the one who did it. She didn't deserve the blame and neither did I.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that in my opinion there is no gray in this. A person cheats deserves the blame; from themself and the BS and the OP.

 

I know what you're saying and I'm not being obstinate and will stop after this one but that's how I feel. Any WS who portions the blame is moving it around to ease the load. IMHO anyway.

[White Flower]

I think that part of the contention here is clearly whether or not that blame IS "misplaced"...and whether or not the MM is deliberately blaming the OW to avoid persecution, or whether or not HE believes what he's saying when he blames the OW.

Exactly.

OW/OM clearly participated in the affair. Whether or not they felt that they participated in the deception or betrayal of the BS, they were still a component in the affair itself.

 

The question I think that this thread raises is whether or not WS believes that the OW/OM truly has any "blame" as a result of their part in the affair. When he "throws them under the bus"...does HE believe what he's saying, or is he just saying it to save his butt?

 

Granted not every OW/OM is "thrown under the bus". My wife never "threw OM under the bus" in my situation. Interestingly enough, as a result of some horrible times one of my sons is going through, the discussion of blaming the OM in our situation came up this weekend. She absolutely blames herself more for what happened than she does him. I still spread the blame (in my mind) between the two of them, given his attempted "friendship" with me.

I agree, he shares the blame in trying to befriend you, making for a double betrayal.

 

I think that there's a decent mix of reasons why things go the way they do on d-day.

 

I think that sometimes the WS is clearly trying to cover himself, and the OW/OM makes a scapegoat he can use to avoid taking the all the blame himself.

 

I think sometimes they believe that the OW/OM is partially responsible.

 

And sometimes, they accept all the blame themselves...whether or not anyone else blames them entirely.

 

As far as whether or not that blame is "misplaced"...that pretty much depends entirely on your point of view.

Fair enough, and a good assessment of what this thread is all about. Not about what this guy tried to suggest:

 

IMO, this thread should be renamed "Lies the OW tells herself to avoid responsibility."

An affair requires two people, both equally responsible for their choices. The WS is entitled to call the OP on their part.

Just another attempt to disrupt a very interesting conversation.