When MP blames A on OP

[bentnotbroken]

My guess BBM Bent is that they want things to go back to normal as quickly as possible without really dealing with the issues that got them there on D-day.

 

For example, and this is where I think MM's W went all wrong. She asked for MC, he said no I'll go to IC, it's my problem.

 

She let him.

 

He stayed home like a little lost puppy so she could see how 'transparent' he'd become. Eventually she let him out, HER idea, and told him he could go to the local pub to watch a game. I met him there.

 

Her idea.

 

After 10 days of throwing verbal fireballs at him she wondered how is libido was holding up. She seduced him (he admitted this to me) and he succumbed. He told me it was horrible (I know, he could have lied).

 

She gave in way too quickly.

 

This BS was in such a hurry to get everything back on track that she overlooked doing it right.

 

After 40 years she still doesn't know when he is lying.

I figured him out in only a couple of years. I know exactly when he is lying. Her desire to have the perfect M and the perfect life and have the outside world see that it that way is more important to her than truly holding him accountable and really getting the M she wants. Or I should say could have. I think she has what she wants, the appearance of perfection.

 

 

As for your second question BBM, again, refer to my porn flick analogy. If he'd been having an affair with porn, gambling, or with a ham sandwich you wouldn't be holding those things accountable.

 

 

Could that have more to do with his pathology than her needing to move foward in trusting him? It seems if his need to live a life of lies is more important than him finding a healthy balance for himself. Is she guilty of denial, possibly. Is he guilty of intentionally leading her off the path of truth to who he is...yes. Of course as humans when we find ourselves in turmoil, we reach out for the familiar. We are always looking for a balance and when there is and imbalance of course we try to hurry to correct it. I don't necessarily see that as bad.

 

And I 'm sorry I don't get your analogy of the porn, gambling and ham:lmao:. An affair, at least in my mind, is where two people make a choice to do things in a decietful way in order to maintain secrecy(for most people). Porn, gambling or food are acted upon. There is no exchange of emotion or sex. Sure the others are addictions and no i wouldn't hold them accountable for being acted upon.

 

Now I still have hope that people aren't reducing their responsibility to the level of objects, but you never know I guess.

[crazycatlady]

I would totally agree with the above statement if the OW knows the BW and is involved in her life in a real way.

 

MM's exOW was best friends with his W for 20 years or more. She called and visited daily. She was/is a business partner to this day. She knew MM's schedules and vacay plans sometimes before he did and altered their lives in the process. This woman was very culpable for causing the BW pain because she owed her loyalty since they were friends.

 

I do not owe MM's W loyalty of any kind as we are not friends. MM is the one who took vows with her, so he is the one who owes her loyalty.

 

Yes, but again I believe you want to hold a perfect stranger who owes you nothing accountable when you should be focusing on your H's accountability to you since he took vows with you.

 

WF - I have to say this I think is true, IMO. I wouldn't have been as deeply hurt if the OW had been someone else. But given who it was, it was a double betrayal. Not only was my home that I made with my H no longer a safe place (when I found it out, I don't feel this way too often, but its still occassionally there) but now my childhood home (the place where when I'm hurt or sick i want to return to to be safe....HOME) is not longer a safe place....And that has not recovered. I don't think it will ever be recovered. Its a huge betrayal that I still am struggling with getting over. It scary. I have no safe place to hole up in where I will be protected. Its like the last bit of my childhood and/or innocence has been striped away.

 

So YES who the OW is does matter. Loyalty owed does matter. At least IMO.

 

CCL

[jennie-jennie]

Ahhh - I don't say the OW would choose to say no. I say she could choose to say no. I'm not saying she is a bad person for not saying no. Simply that her actions also contribute to the pain of the BS.

 

Tobe clear, I am not discussing moral relativism, as I am not judging any person, or saying their actions are "bad" or "immoral". I only say what I have always said - the OW also has responsibility/accountability for the pain of the wife. It doesn't matter whether the wife knows the OW personally or not. The joint actions of the WS and the OW create pain. Either person could have chosen to say no. This isn't about morality IMO, it's about responsibility, which is (again IMO) a totally different thing.

 

I get what you are saying (and you are kind as always) but I can't see how I can be held responsible for a stranger's welfare. My actions are not directed towards her, my actions are actions of love. I have done what I am responsible for, ended my relationship with my SO. I can not be held responsible for the MM's relationship. It is up to him how he wants to conduct it.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. We look at this differently, which is why I see it as moral relativism.

[Fieldsofgold]

I get what you are saying (and you are kind as always) but I can't see how I can be held responsible for a stranger's welfare. My actions are not directed towards her, my actions are actions of love. I have done what I am responsible for, ended my relationship with my SO. I can not be held responsible for the MM's relationship. It is up to him how he wants to conduct it.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. We look at this differently, which is why I see it as moral relativism.

 

If you are walking down the street, and you see a stranger beating his-her child, don't you feel some responsibility to intervene in some way? Would you not, in some small way, feel responsible for the welfare of the child? Or if you passed a bad car wreck, or a house on fire, wouldn't you feel some responsibility to at least call for help, even though it was a stranger? That is because you DO feel some responsibility for the welfare of strangers.

 

But being an AP is taking a little more active part in what's going on. It's like walking down the street, and you see a woman being mugged by a man. And then the man hands you her purse, and asks you to hide it for him and he'll split the money with you layer, and you do it, because it is something you really want or need - it benefits you. So even though you only took what was handed to you, you still did contribute to, and aid in, the harm of that woman.

 

You can argue that he had already mugged her. You can argue that he would have taken her money anyway, you can argue that he would have given the purse to someone else, but the police would still arrest you, and the judge would find you guilty. It's called being an accessory to a crime.

 

Or maybe it would be "theft by receiving." At any rate, you had knowledge of what was being done, and you participated. That would get you convicted in a court of law.

 

Likewise, as an OW, you are an accessory to any pain and destruction the affair causes.

 

That's not a great analogy, but it's late here, and I'm really tired. But you get the idea.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[seren]

I often hear OW/OM say, after D Day 'we never meant to hurt anyone' and wonder what they thought an A was going to do to someone. I am sure that people in an A don't mean to hurt someone, I am sure that the A has a life of its own and that the focus at the time is on the A and not anyone else. But, I often wonder if the AP had a window into the world of the BS, saw the gut wrenching pain that an A brings, would still feel absolutely no responsibility for enabling the married person to hurt another person, their family.

 

I felt for OW after D Day, I felt no victory at her hurt, refused and still refuse H to put all the blame onto her, or to bad mouth her. In fact, I defend her, which he doesn't understand at all, but I live with me and I just couldn't be the cause of anothers pain, it goes against my values.

 

H owns up to his actions, but he also holds the OW responsible for some of the things she said to him, about me and our life, which were meant to cause a rift between us. If I bumped into someone in the street and they fell, I would feel responsible for their pain, if I helped to break someone's heart and trust, I think I would own my part in that, but not at the time of the A, or I wouldn't be able to continue. With hindsight and distance, I would hope that I could have regret for my part in hurt.

[jennie-jennie]

If you are walking down the street, and you see a stranger beating his-her child, don't you feel some responsibility to intervene in some way? Would you not, in some small way, feel responsible for the welfare of the child? Or if you passed a bad car wreck, or a house on fire, wouldn't you feel some responsibility to at least call for help, even though it was a stranger? That is because you DO feel some responsibility for the welfare of strangers.

 

But being an AP is taking a little more active part in what's going on. It's like walking down the street, and you see a woman being mugged by a man. And then the man hands you her purse, and asks you to hide it for him and he'll split the money with you layer, and you do it, because it is something you really want or need - it benefits you. So even though you only took what was handed to you, you still did contribute to, and aid in, the harm of that woman.

 

You can argue that he had already mugged her. You can argue that he would have taken her money anyway, you can argue that he would have given the purse to someone else, but the police would still arrest you, and the judge would find you guilty. It's called being an accessory to a crime.

 

Or maybe it would be "theft by receiving." At any rate, you had knowledge of what was being done, and you participated. That would get you convicted in a court of law.

 

Likewise, as an OW, you are an accessory to any pain and destruction the affair causes.

 

That's not a great analogy, but it's late here, and I'm really tired. But you get the idea.

 

To me a better analogy would be the parent straightening up her/his kid. I don't intervene in the parenting. I don't intervene in the marriage. Oh, I have been tempted many times to tell the wife, but had to come to terms that that is not my responsibility.

 

See what is wrong to me is not our relationship. It is the MM not telling about it. That is what is causing the betrayal. There is always pain when love moves from one "object" to another, the unnecessary pain is caused by the dishonesty of not telling about it.

 

I often hear OW/OM say, after D Day 'we never meant to hurt anyone' and wonder what they thought an A was going to do to someone. I am sure that people in an A don't mean to hurt someone, I am sure that the A has a life of its own and that the focus at the time is on the A and not anyone else. But, I often wonder if the AP had a window into the world of the BS, saw the gut wrenching pain that an A brings, would still feel absolutely no responsibility for enabling the married person to hurt another person, their family.

 

I have been the BS, many times, so I know the pain. I never blamed the OW then, I did not feel they were in any way responsible for my pain. All they did was love a guy, or at the very least lust for him. I didn't expect them to put my welfare before their love or even their desires. Say what you will about me, but I am consistent.

Edited August 25, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

Are we not side-stepping the topic now? The topic is "When MP blames A on OP", not whether or not the OP has any accountability for participating in the A.

[jj33]

Are we not side-stepping the topic now? The topic is "When MP blames A on OP", not whether or not the OP has any accountability for participating in the A.

 

My thoughts exactly. I THOUGHT (WF correct me if I am wrong) that the question was is it OK for the WS to say it wasnt just me blame the AP too.

 

Whether the AP has blame or not is a subsidiary question and perhaps we have run the course on the responses because its come down to the same question that so many threads degenerate to - whether the AP is culpable in causing harm. Arent we tired of batting that same issue about in most every thread? (its that or if he loved you he would leave who does he love more - another tired battle)

[OWoman]

If you are walking down the street, and you see a stranger beating his-her child, don't you feel some responsibility to intervene in some way? Would you not, in some small way, feel responsible for the welfare of the child? Or if you passed a bad car wreck, or a house on fire, wouldn't you feel some responsibility to at least call for help, even though it was a stranger? That is because you DO feel some responsibility for the welfare of strangers.

 

Forgive the t/j, but the fact that it had to be legislated in my home country that driving past the scene of an accident without stopping to assist (if emergency services are not already on the scene), or witnessing or hearing of or even suspecting child abuse (which would include the "stranger beating their child" scenario) and not reporting it, is a crime, suggests that it is not universal (and possibly not even common) for strangers to intervene as you suggest. Most people (back home) would simply not want to get involved - it's none of their business, after all - and would simply pass by, possibly phoning the emergency services when they got home.

[crazycatlady]

My thoughts exactly. I THOUGHT (WF correct me if I am wrong) that the question was is it OK for the WS to say it wasnt just me blame the AP too.

 

Whether the AP has blame or not is a subsidiary question and perhaps we have run the course on the responses because its come down to the same question that so many threads degenerate to - whether the AP is culpable in causing harm. Arent we tired of batting that same issue about in most every thread? (its that or if he loved you he would leave who does he love more - another tired battle)

 

Well if you always agree the AP had nothing to do with the BS, then of course your beliefe will be "Its never ok for the AP to blame the AP too". So in a way it is pertinent to the conversation in some people's minds.

 

If we feel the AP is responsible in same form or another then the question is open to debate.

 

Actually, I don't think its right to even shift blame for your actions onto another person. Because in the end, it comes down to you and the fact that you should have been a more honest person. Its all about owning your own choices. In the end I made that choice because I wanted to do so. In the end, my H made his choice because he wanted to do so. In the end my sister made that choice because she wanted to do so. In the end I stayed and made that choice because I wanted to do so. Choice is always there.

 

My child might be screaming bloody murder in the backseat because her brother hit her again (or just touched her or just looked at her I'm tired of this never ending fight) and I might want to take my eyes off the road for a moment long enough to turn around and yell at both of them, or on a really frustrated day, take a swat at the brother to see how he likes it, but if I do that and get into an accident its not partly my kids fault. They weren't grabbing my hands etc. I chose to turn around. I might have had a reason to do so, but the action of my turning was all my own choice. I also could have chosen to pull over first before turning around.

 

Unless someone is physically affecting you - ie holding you, holding a gun to your head etc - the end result is its YOUR choice.

 

CCL

[jj33]

CCL I think your case is particularly complicated your sister.... that is wrong on so many levels and she is accountable as your sister.

 

As a general matter I think situations vary and different people will have different views as to the APs culpability.

 

But it is abhorrent for a WS to say oh she was troubled or oh it was her chasing me. If you succumb to anothers advances when you DONT have an open marriage or some understanding that you will remain married and discreetly live your own lives, then if you break the contract thats on you. (again do you have to tag these hapless b~stards)

 

There are always extenuating circumstances and dynamics between spouses that may cause someone to look outside but ultimately its that persons choice to confront the marital issues or gain the strength to face issues within themselves or the marriage by having an A.

 

To carry on about how awful the AP was is distasteful to say the least. You f*ed her right? So at some point you didnt think she was that bad...

 

Actually id be insulted oh so you THOUGHT she was worth it and now youve had a change or heart? Dont come crying to me about how she didnt meet your expectations (its not like hiring a new secretary - I thought she was up to scratch but actually I made a mistake).

 

Whether or not the AP has his/her own culpability has IMHO NOTHING to do with the WS's culpability for betraying the marrage vows.

 

Its like co defendants. The fact that someone else hid the burglar in their home while the police hunted them down doesnt make the burglar less of a burglar.

Edited August 25, 2010 by jj33

[Spark1111]

I often hear OW/OM say, after D Day 'we never meant to hurt anyone' and wonder what they thought an A was going to do to someone. I am sure that people in an A don't mean to hurt someone, I am sure that the A has a life of its own and that the focus at the time is on the A and not anyone else. But, I often wonder if the AP had a window into the world of the BS, saw the gut wrenching pain that an A brings, would still feel absolutely no responsibility for enabling the married person to hurt another person, their family.

 

I felt for OW after D Day, I felt no victory at her hurt, refused and still refuse H to put all the blame onto her, or to bad mouth her. In fact, I defend her, which he doesn't understand at all, but I live with me and I just couldn't be the cause of anothers pain, it goes against my values.

 

H owns up to his actions, but he also holds the OW responsible for some of the things she said to him, about me and our life, which were meant to cause a rift between us. If I bumped into someone in the street and they fell, I would feel responsible for their pain, if I helped to break someone's heart and trust, I think I would own my part in that, but not at the time of the A, or I wouldn't be able to continue. With hindsight and distance, I would hope that I could have regret for my part in hurt.

 

Thank you Seren for saying this so much better than I did.

 

At least your OW, in retrospect and after the affair was over, had the dignity to apologize for any pain, intended or unintended, she may have caused you.

 

I could respect that closure.

 

I got quite the opposite.

 

I forgave her and had only compassion for her, never bad-mouthed her and neither did he....ever.

 

MY H, in seeing the pain she caused me 2.5 years later, the angry attack filled with vitriol and contempt after I only words of empathy during our entire reconciliation, when we talked of her at all, changed his opinion of her.

 

It changed mine too.

[Fieldsofgold]

CCL I think your case is particularly complicated your sister.... that is wrong on so many levels and she is accountable as your sister.

 

As a general matter I think situations vary and different people will have different views as to the APs culpability.

 

But it is abhorrent for a WS to say oh she was troubled or oh it was her chasing me. If you succumb to anothers advances when you DONT have an open marriage or some understanding that you will remain married and discreetly live your own lives, then if you break the contract thats on you. (again do you have to tag these hapless b~stards)

 

There are always extenuating circumstances and dynamics between spouses that may cause someone to look outside but ultimately its that persons choice to confront the marital issues or gain the strength to face issues within themselves or the marriage by having an A.

 

To carry on about how awful the AP was is distasteful to say the least. You f*ed her right? So at some point you didnt think she was that bad...

 

Actually id be insulted oh so you THOUGHT she was worth it and now youve had a change or heart? Dont come crying to me about how she didnt meet your expectations (its not like hiring a new secretary - I thought she was up to scratch but actually I made a mistake).

 

Whether or not the AP has his/her own culpability has IMHO NOTHING to do with the WS's culpability for betraying the marrage vows.

 

Its like co defendants. The fact that someone else hid the burglar in their home while the police hunted them down doesnt make the burglar less of a burglar.

 

Excellent post. Really what more can be said?

[2sure]

WhiteFlower -

 

Earlier in the thread I wrote this:

 

[QUOTE=2sure;2957227]

But...also as a BS - I did end up personally blaming several OW ( there were a few) for taking part in my life without my knowledge. The 2 that knew me personally - had hell to pay and it had little to do with my husband's part in it. It was because they knowingly took part in my life secretly and I would have reacted the same whether the circumstances of that participation involved my husband, my family, my finances, my business etc. Even then, if my H had blamed them for his actions - I would have defended them.

 

And you asked:

 

You got me curious 2sue, how did they knowingly take part in your life? I'm so far removed that I couldn't imagine so I appreciate your sharing. You can PM me if you like.

 

I saw the question when you posted it, but to be honest - even thinking about the two women who knew ME personally & hooked up with my H...made me so upset & angry again that I didnt have words to respond.

 

Simply put - they KNEW me. They met us as a couple. I believe that their over step of boundaries was in part directed at me personally. How could it not be? Also, I believe that they both knew me well enough not to F with me. I am still struggling a bit with my responses to their insult. I cannot say I am pleased with the way I reacted...and yet, I'm still not feeling bad about it. I dont know. I guess I have work to do.

[OWoman]

Simply put - they KNEW me. They met us as a couple. I believe that their over step of boundaries was in part directed at me personally. How could it not be? Also, I believe that they both knew me well enough not to F with me. I am still struggling a bit with my responses to their insult. I cannot say I am pleased with the way I reacted...and yet, I'm still not feeling bad about it. I dont know. I guess I have work to do.

 

This I can understand. If someone I knew wanted to shag my H, I would expect her (or him) to ask us both if it was OK - the same way that if I wanted to shag someone I knew as part of an obvious couple, I'd check with both of them that it was OK.

[bullhunter]

My thoughts exactly. I THOUGHT (WF correct me if I am wrong) that the question was is it OK for the WS to say it wasnt just me blame the AP too.

 

From what I've read on this thread it appears most OW say they have no responsibility for the affair. Why shouldn't the MM claim the same? If one person in the affair claims no responsibility it seems the other can as well.

[jj33]

From what I've read on this thread it appears most OW say they have no responsibility for the affair. Why shouldn't the MM claim the same? If one person in the affair claims no responsibility it seems the other can as well.

 

Read my subsequent post which clarifies this

[Summer Breeze]

From what I've read on this thread it appears most OW say they have no responsibility for the affair. Why shouldn't the MM claim the same? If one person in the affair claims no responsibility it seems the other can as well.

 

Some MM do that. Gaslighting is just that and it happens all the time. I've always said the cruelest lying is to the BS and it's not just when the A is going on.

 

A more serious response is this. The MM made promises and turned their back on the person they promised to protect and love. The commitment was between he and the WS. The OW had nowt to do with any of it. You're trying to compare lemons and onions.

[woinlove]

My child might be screaming bloody murder in the backseat because her brother hit her again (or just touched her or just looked at her I'm tired of this never ending fight) and I might want to take my eyes off the road for a moment long enough to turn around and yell at both of them, or on a really frustrated day, take a swat at the brother to see how he likes it, but if I do that and get into an accident its not partly my kids fault. They weren't grabbing my hands etc. I chose to turn around. I might have had a reason to do so, but the action of my turning was all my own choice. I also could have chosen to pull over first before turning around.

 

Affairs are not a single person activity like driving a car is. It takes two. It's more like cheating on an exam by having someone give you the answers, than it is like driving. If you know the other person will use your answers to cheat, then you'll be disciplined as well. Also, let's assume the participants in an affair are adults.

 

Having said that, I don't think fault or blame are the most relevant terms for the role of an AP. To me, it is a matter of caring about others, valuing openness and honesty, and encouraging those we love to be the best people they can be. Being an AP is not consistent with these.

[White Flower]

WhiteFlower -

 

Earlier in the thread I wrote this:

 

But...also as a BS - I did end up personally blaming several OW ( there were a few) for taking part in my life without my knowledge. The 2 that knew me personally - had hell to pay and it had little to do with my husband's part in it. It was because they knowingly took part in my life secretly and I would have reacted the same whether the circumstances of that participation involved my husband, my family, my finances, my business etc. Even then, if my H had blamed them for his actions - I would have defended them.

 

And you asked:

 

 

 

I saw the question when you posted it, but to be honest - even thinking about the two women who knew ME personally & hooked up with my H...made me so upset & angry again that I didnt have words to respond.

 

Simply put - they KNEW me. They met us as a couple. I believe that their over step of boundaries was in part directed at me personally. How could it not be? Also, I believe that they both knew me well enough not to F with me. I am still struggling a bit with my responses to their insult. I cannot say I am pleased with the way I reacted...and yet, I'm still not feeling bad about it. I dont know. I guess I have work to do.

I appreciate that you needed time to cool before posting and I agree with you 100%. I could not, would not get involved with the H of a friend of mine or anyone I knew. It is a double betrayal to me.

 

Again, if he wants to betray his W that is on him. I do not hold any responsibility to MM's W IMHO since I don't know her.

 

This I can understand. If someone I knew wanted to shag my H, I would expect her (or him) to ask us both if it was OK - the same way that if I wanted to shag someone I knew as part of an obvious couple, I'd check with both of them that it was OK.

I agree.

[2sunny]

My guess BBM Bent is that they want things to go back to normal as quickly as possible without really dealing with the issues that got them there on D-day.

 

For example, and this is where I think MM's W went all wrong. She asked for MC, he said no I'll go to IC, it's my problem.

 

She let him.

 

He stayed home like a little lost puppy so she could see how 'transparent' he'd become. Eventually she let him out, HER idea, and told him he could go to the local pub to watch a game. I met him there.

 

Her idea.

 

After 10 days of throwing verbal fireballs at him she wondered how is libido was holding up. She seduced him (he admitted this to me) and he succumbed. He told me it was horrible (I know, he could have lied).

 

She gave in way too quickly.

 

This BS was in such a hurry to get everything back on track that she overlooked doing it right.

 

After 40 years she still doesn't know when he is lying.

I figured him out in only a couple of years. I know exactly when he is lying. Her desire to have the perfect M and the perfect life and have the outside world see that it that way is more important to her than truly holding him accountable and really getting the M she wants. Or I should say could have. I think she has what she wants, the appearance of perfection.

 

 

As for your second question BBM, again, refer to my porn flick analogy. If he'd been having an affair with porn, gambling, or with a ham sandwich you wouldn't be holding those things accountable.

 

these are all things he told you. he very well could still be lying WF... sometimes - many times - i see people who have lied to themselves so much and for so long that they don't even know where their OWN truth is...

 

for me - when i have done this - i needed OTHERS to point out to me what i wasn't seeing (the lie). once i could consider that it MAY not actually be my truth - but just the habit of what i was trained to think - i could begin to discover what MY TRUTH might actually be.

[White Flower]

Could that have more to do with his pathology than her needing to move foward in trusting him? It seems if his need to live a life of lies is more important than him finding a healthy balance for himself. Is she guilty of denial, possibly. Is he guilty of intentionally leading her off the path of truth to who he is...yes. Of course as humans when we find ourselves in turmoil, we reach out for the familiar. We are always looking for a balance and when there is and imbalance of course we try to hurry to correct it. I don't necessarily see that as bad.

 

And I 'm sorry I don't get your analogy of the porn, gambling and ham:lmao:. An affair, at least in my mind, is where two people make a choice to do things in a decietful way in order to maintain secrecy(for most people). Porn, gambling or food are acted upon. There is no exchange of emotion or sex. Sure the others are addictions and no i wouldn't hold them accountable for being acted upon.

 

Now I still have hope that people aren't reducing their responsibility to the level of objects, but you never know I guess.

I think they both play into the pathology of perfection. They could write a book on it if they were truly in self-discovery mode.

 

He is, actually, and continues to be in IC.

 

Yes, she is in denial (head-in-the-sand-burying) and he is used to lying to her in order to avoid confrontation when he wants to leave her anyway. In his mind, why confess all when he feels he can't move forward with her and has never felt intimately connected to her? This is not her fault, I know. She wants what she wants and will overlook her instincts in order to keep it.

 

So they both play into it, allowing the farce to continue.

 

Yes, we'll agree to disagree. I don't feel my part in our A is deceiving her. I feel his part in our A is.

 

And I'm not sure there is a difference between a man 'acting upon' an object for his addiction or 'exchanging emotions' with an A partner. Ask any BW whose H is addicted to porn and she might answer differently. One of my best friends D'd her H for putting porn above her and her sexual needs.

 

However, I do see how the exchanging of emotions can feel threatening, especially if the OP is very good at persuasion.

[White Flower]

WF - I have to say this I think is true, IMO. I wouldn't have been as deeply hurt if the OW had been someone else. But given who it was, it was a double betrayal. Not only was my home that I made with my H no longer a safe place (when I found it out, I don't feel this way too often, but its still occassionally there) but now my childhood home (the place where when I'm hurt or sick i want to return to to be safe....HOME) is not longer a safe place....And that has not recovered. I don't think it will ever be recovered. Its a huge betrayal that I still am struggling with getting over. It scary. I have no safe place to hole up in where I will be protected. Its like the last bit of my childhood and/or innocence has been striped away.

 

So YES who the OW is does matter. Loyalty owed does matter. At least IMO.

 

CCL

Hugs CCL. My heart goes out to you.

 

When I first learned of MM's A with a friend of his W's I was very angry and very tempted to out it. I didn't for a couple of reasons. One is, I wouldn't want his W hurting any more than she already does. I think this news would damage her.

 

I guess I'm not completely indifferent to her afterall.

 

Also, I wouldn't want a perfect stranger outing his A with me.

 

I can imagine that every good memory she has in that house would be altered by the knowledge. How awful. CCL, I hope you overcome the feeling that you can never go home.

 

(((CCL)))

[White Flower]

My thoughts exactly. I THOUGHT (WF correct me if I am wrong) that the question was is it OK for the WS to say it wasnt just me blame the AP too.

 

Whether the AP has blame or not is a subsidiary question and perhaps we have run the course on the responses because its come down to the same question that so many threads degenerate to - whether the AP is culpable in causing harm. Arent we tired of batting that same issue about in most every thread? (its that or if he loved you he would leave who does he love more - another tired battle)

No, you are right jj.

[White Flower]

From what I've read on this thread it appears most OW say they have no responsibility for the affair. Why shouldn't the MM claim the same? If one person in the affair claims no responsibility it seems the other can as well.

But one of them took vows with a BS. As an OW, even I can see he is to blame in the downfall of his own M and morals. Many times over, in fact.