When MP blames A on OP

[White Flower]

Mr. Messy didn't blame OW after d-day. He said from the beginning he is the one who pursued her and for that he received 100% of the blame. She receives 100% of the blame for allowing that pursuit to happen and succumbing to it. I had more than enough proof of who did what. And after discovering their affair, I discovered she wasn't the first(he wasn't hers either). I wasn't married to who I thought I was. He was a cruel man, whom I loved. I never believed he would cheat and he did, no need to give me excuses of who did what and why.

 

That is my situation. I don't know what happens right after d-day for all those who find themselves there, but I don't believe all WS claim the AP was at fault and that they were bewitched by anything.

And I'm not claiming they all do.

 

I just don't like hearing when a WS blames the OW when he is the one who broke the vows, especially given that he has a KISA complex. It just doesn't gel with the typical behavior.

[Left in a Lurch]

Is it just me or are these threads getting too hard to read with 50 acronyms in every post?

It's a real P in the A trying to decipher the codes. Wouldn't it be just as easy to T all the Ws in the Rs to the Ps?

[Fieldsofgold]

Men who do that are telling Mommy that yes they got into a fight at recess but actually the other boy punched him first. Grow the eff up and own your actions geez...

 

Its all rubbish. He is the married one and he is the one who broke the vows and the whole thing makes no sense to me whatsoever. There are some but few predatory women involved in affairs. And the percentage of MM who get hit on by predatory OW and have real excuses for blaming the OW for their failure to honor their marriage vows is even smaller

 

Total tosh. How about we were going through a rough patch in our marriage she came along at the right time, the attention ws flattering, I should have dealt with it differently. I should have come to you and said we really need to work on things or I will be vulnerable to an affair.

 

 

Or how about things were so lousy between I didnt know where to begin to make things better and I looked outside the relationship and I am sorry I betrayed you.

 

The rest is a very very clever way of saying its you and me babe. I hate and at the same time feel sorry for that pathetic OW. Youve always been the one for me, you and I are solid as a rock. If it werent for that nasty OW, none of this would have happened. The poster who seems a lovely woman has said she didnt buy that rubbish shoveled at her by her H but of course she did on some level or would not have repeated it. Its positive for the BS only because hte manipulative WS is pitting himself and his wife as a unit agains the OW and thereby (in words despite his prior actions) showing which team he is on. Its a clever way of rebonding in the moment when he should be groveling.

 

Hs who use that routine deserve to have their azzes kicked into next year because if you dont get that it was YOUR fault you cheated you are going to do it again because it comes down to the same thing, unless we are going to "tag" our men, there are women everywhere and going to the train in the morning, going out to the parking lot to get into the car, its all fraught with the possibility that some lovely OW is going to snare the hapless little b*stard again.

 

Give me an effing break. Please....

 

I like Fooled's take on it. What a punk. Any man who isnt man enough to stand up and say it was me and REALLY own it, is a total punk.

 

Noone makes you cheat no matter how lovely, how flattering, how aggressive. And when D day comes if these WSs dont own it and really look at WHY, then all the shoveling of the tosh that they may do in the OWs direction is not going to help them repair their marriages.

 

It may be music to the ears of their spouses. When faced with that kind of devasation and betrayal, hearing something comforting (no matter how much of it is tosh) is bound to be welcome.

 

I totally agree with this. As I read the OP, he blamed everything from the OW to depression - everything and everyone was responsible except HIM!

[bentnotbroken]

And I'm not claiming they all do.

 

I just don't like hearing when a WS blames the OW when he is the one who broke the vows, especially given that he has a KISA complex. It just doesn't gel with the typical behavior.

 

 

Is it possible that they really do see things differently later? Time away from the affair endorphins and being able to actually see the destruction and the AP really was a bit manipulating? Not saying that is most WS but a percentage. The twists and turns are so varied, just with the WS of situations we have seen posted here and they do leave. The twists and turns were there.

[White Flower]

Is it possible that they really do see things differently later? Time away from the affair endorphins and being able to actually see the destruction and the AP really was a bit manipulating? Not saying that is most WS but a percentage. The twists and turns are so varied, just with the WS of situations we have seen posted here and they do leave. The twists and turns were there.

I believe we all see things differently once we step away, reexamine it, and gain new perspectives in any R (relationshipe for you Chat Room Hero). It is normal to rewrite history once perspective is gained, but to what extent?

[White Flower]

Is it just me or are these threads getting too hard to read with 50 acronyms in every post?

It's a real P in the A trying to decipher the codes. Wouldn't it be just as easy to T all the Ws in the Rs to the Ps?

Care to clarify what a T is? LOL

[pureinheart]

Is it just me or are these threads getting too hard to read with 50 acronyms in every post?

It's a real P in the A trying to decipher the codes. Wouldn't it be just as easy to T all the Ws in the Rs to the Ps?

 

 

:lmao::lmao:, you made me smile...lol (laughing out loud):lmao:...anyway our codes are under the LS pinned items at the top of the directory

[Fieldsofgold]

Care to clarify what a T is? LOL

 

"T"ype all the Words in Responses to the Post.

[Summer Breeze]

As for blame for the OW - yes, in a way I can see why MM blame the OW considering she KNEW he was married. In no way am I saying HE has no blame - he has the majority of it; but there are tons of OW who knew the MM was married, who bought into his 'belief' that things at home weren't great and that have encouraged him to continue to cheat, encouraged him to leave and have even helped by telling him what to say to the BW. The fact that MM can't man up and either END their marriage or END their affair, on their own, shows the utter lack of strength and integrity IN MY OPINION these men have. I will never ever understand why women accept this from men. I know, I know - they love them.

 

Are you talking about the OW/OM or the BS? No matter what we want to think love is a powerful thing and most people lose themselves in it to some degree at some point in time.

 

Back to the OP-100% blame on the party that cheats on their partner. No exceptions in my mind. If that party says 'no' then there's no A-it's as simple as that.

[jennie-jennie]

So he deals with self-hatred. In his words: "I hate what she and I did! We used each other to feel good. It was breathtakingly selfish on both our parts."

So now he hates her too. I wish it wasn't true because I think it impedes his healing, but there it is.

 

There is altruistic love and there is selfish love. Selfish love is: you love the person that makes you feel good. This is the love you have for a partner. Very immature to hate someone for loving him the way you love a partner.

[woinlove]

I find this discussion of who is to blame very interesting because my own views have changed over the years. I used to agree with those who say the MM is 100% responsible and the OW is only responsible for her own pain (which I never had as I never felt guilty and wasn't looking for anything but an A).

 

However, I have always considered spouses of friends and relatives off-limits. I know such affairs are not uncommon, so I guess quite a few OW/OM don't feel the responsibility to friends and relatives that I did and still do. What has changed for me, is that I now feel a responsibility for how my actions affect others more generally.

 

I don't seem to have any control over who I feel a chemistry jolt from or who I feel some quick and unexpected romantic connection to. But, I am aware enough to recognize chemistry jolts and romantic connections and I sometimes decide not to act on these. Even more, I sometimes decide to make sure future interactions are appropriate - whether for a co-worker, in-law, spouse of friend, of simply a MM. I do this because I recognize and respect the power of romantic love and I care how my actions affect others. I also would like my love and involvement to inspire my partner to the best they can be and to have them lie and deceive their W negates that.

 

To me, people who say "it just happened" either seem to be quite immature and unaware of their feelings until they are hit over the head with them, or else they refuse to take responsibility for themselves.

 

Having said all that, I think the WS should accept 100% responsibility for what they have done to their spouse and M. I also feel OM/OW should accept responsibility for choosing to become involved with a MP (unless they were completely duped) and for the pain that causes to others (which, unfortunately, often involves children of the MP). As to the BS, while the blame has to fall primarily on the WS, I would expect them to have a very low opinion of the AP.

[jennie-jennie]

But she wanted him for herself to ease her loneliness. And ultimately, she was as selfish as he was. Because if you love someone, how do you help them become less honorable, less devoted, less loving, less honest to their spouse and family?

 

But also more true to yourself by pursuing the love you hold for the OW. This is caring for yourself. You and your happiness are also worth something. If the MM cared more for themselves, they would have gotten a divorce already.

 

The mistake is seeing a contradiction between your own happiness and the happiness of the family. You can be as devoted and loving and honest to your family even if you love another woman. It is the WS' choice to not be honest to the spouse. Most likely the OW was encouraging him to tell the truth.

[jennie-jennie]

I can see feeling disgusted with a ONS or a shorter affair, but feeling disgusted with a long term affair, especially if there were feelings of love involved, - own what you did. You are only disgusted because you got caught.

 

If there is anything to feel disgusted for, it is that you didn't own up to the affair and told the truth to your spouse before getting caught.

Edited August 22, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Jilly Bean]

Oooo - I think this is very dangerous indeed.

 

If an "reconciling" MM is home and still blaming the OW for the affair, he's clearly a MM who hasn't changed one lick, and still refuses to accept responsibility for his actions, whether in the past, present, or future.

 

MM to OW before Dday: I am with you because my wife is mean to me. She's an ugly shrew of a hag who criticizes me constantly, belittles me, and makes me feel two inches high. It's really her fault I'm even cheating. She drove me to it, really. YOU make me feel like a real man, however, and thats why I love you, and why Im here.

 

MM to OW after Dday: I have to go back. Its not that I want to, its that shes making me. Well, her and the kids and the family. Its horrible. I have no choice, and I am forced to go back to something I don't want. I doubt it will work, either. I just cant follow my own heart and dreams and be with you because of them, do you see?

 

MM to BS after Dday: She made me do it.

 

MM to BS when caught in subsequent affairs: They made me do it.

 

I just think if a MM is not accepting 100% culpability for his action, then he's ripe to be a repeat offender, and his BS is ripe to accept it.

[RecordProducer]

I would care to clarify what all abreviations are!

 

Anyway, White Flower, as much as I understood, your MM, broke up with his wife finally? By the way, I've missed you.

 

Personally, I think it's the MM to blame. I have an experience with a woman who tried to ruin our marriage, but he didn't want her. When we were trying to work on our issues and stay together, she kept interrupting on purpose. She asked him to go on a trip with her and when he said NO, she insisted (but he didn't go). When I called her and told her to stay away from my husband, she just hung up on me instead of telling me that they were just friends (and this is a very "religious" woman!!!). I know she was deliberately trying to separate us and get him for himself.

 

He was never attracted her (she is older than him and I am 20 years younger than her) and they're still just friends, but she keeps coming to his house once a week to sleep over (in his guest room). She always brings him food, too (he doesn't eat it). I suspect he has lent her money, because he is very wealthy.

 

So, I do think she's a bad person for what she's trying to do. I don't think she cares about him as much as she cares about stealing someone's husband. I mean, our final divorce step is taken, we'll be divorced in a couple of weeks and we've been separated for over 1.5 years. But I know how religious people always tell me that we're still married and we have no right to date others. So, as a religious person, she thinks/knows she is actually standing between a husband and a wife. If I had less dignity I'd call her and tell her that God will punish her for what she's been doing to me.

 

Yes, I do think she's a bitch because HE doesn't want HER. If he wanted her, I would never think anything was HER fault. I know of women who were going out with my husband while we were having a full blown after-separation relationship, and I didn't think they were mean or anything. It was his fault that he would sleep with me and then get up and go on a date with them - and he would leave me at his house waiting for him to come back from the date! Of course, he wouldn't tell me; I would only know by snooping into his computer. And if I would confront him, he'd accuse me of snooping and taking things between us too seriously (I was his wife, separated, but still a wife who loved him).

 

The only time I would think the OW is acting mean is if she had no understanding for the wife and humiliated her.

[woinlove]

Oooo - I think this is very dangerous indeed.

 

If an "reconciling" MM is home and still blaming the OW for the affair, he's clearly a MM who hasn't changed one lick, and still refuses to accept responsibility for his actions, whether in the past, present, or future.

 

MM to OW before Dday: I am with you because my wife is mean to me. She's an ugly shrew of a hag who criticizes me constantly, belittles me, and makes me feel two inches high. It's really her fault I'm even cheating. She drove me to it, really. YOU make me feel like a real man, however, and thats why I love you, and why Im here.

 

MM to OW after Dday: I have to go back. Its not that I want to, its that shes making me. Well, her and the kids and the family. Its horrible. I have no choice, and I am forced to go back to something I don't want. I doubt it will work, either. I just cant follow my own heart and dreams and be with you because of them, do you see?

 

MM to BS after Dday: She made me do it.

 

MM to BS when caught in subsequent affairs: They made me do it.

 

I just think if a MM is not accepting 100% culpability for his action, then he's ripe to be a repeat offender, and his BS is ripe to accept it.

 

Yes, but what about the more nuanced situation described in the OP - one where the MM accepts blame and culpability for his own actions, but doesn't see the OW as blameless. One can accept 100% culpability for one's own actions and yet think the actions of one's accomplice are also terrible.

 

As to whether this specific MM accepts 100% culpability for his own actions, one would likely need to go back to the original thread in Infidelity and discuss that point.

 

However, one can discuss this point in general - what might/should/does any MM who accepts 100% culpability, think of the OW's role? I suspect if they always saw themselves in the driver's seat, and that vision is not altered after d-day, they may think of the OW as a blameless victim. If they see the A of more of an equal situation, then they may come to assign the same negative view of the OW's actions as they assign to their own.

[Left in a Lurch]

"T"ype all the Words in Responses to the Post.

 

Bingo! Nice job!

[pureinheart]

But also more true to yourself by pursuing the love you hold for the OW. This is caring for yourself. You and your happiness are also worth something. If the MM cared more for themselves, they would have gotten a divorce already.

 

The mistake is seeing a contradiction between your own happiness and the happiness of the family. You can be as devoted and loving and honest to your family even if you love another woman. It is the WS' choice to not be honest to the spouse. Most likely the OW was encouraging him to tell the truth.

 

You know Jennie, with this happening a lot in my circle, home town, etc., I saw no shock value, nor a need to get back at the other, throw anyone under the bus...nothing...no talking mess about the other...angry yes (I am assuming because there was little talk...just, "we split up").

 

The M's that remained together after an A seemed to do well...really I think it's better just to chill (easier said than done) because people are gonna do what they want anyway.

[pureinheart]

Bingo! Nice job!

 

I'm indoctrinated already...unable to T all the words...lol

[Fieldsofgold]

However, one can discuss this point in general - what might/should/does any MM who accepts 100% culpability, think of the OW's role? I suspect if they always saw themselves in the driver's seat, and that vision is not altered after d-day, they may think of the OW as a blameless victim. If they see the A of more of an equal situation, then they may come to assign the same negative view of the OW's actions as they assign to their own.

 

I could see where the MS might be angry at the AP more, if the AP was constantly pressuring him/her to leave the BS, pushing him to sneak out more often, pushing him to take more risks, or generally take the affair further than MS really wanted to, etc. (maybe this was what Silly Girl meant by a Cheerleader type - I don't know what that term means.)

 

Still, I think the WS should take 100% responsibility for betraying the Spouse.

[Silly_Girl]

I could see where the MS might be angry at the AP more, if the AP was constantly pressuring him/her to leave the BS, pushing him to sneak out more often, pushing him to take more risks, or generally take the affair further than MS really wanted to, etc. (maybe this was what Silly Girl meant by a Cheerleader type - I don't know what that term means.)

 

Still, I think the WS should take 100% responsibility for betraying the Spouse.

 

That's what I meant FoG, someone cheering the MM/MW on with regards the lying, someone getting a buzz out of the fact the R is an affair, per se. Not someone I've seen around LS but I've heard of one or two IRL over the years.

[crazycatlady]

Interesting interesting.

 

I've had two guys cheat on me - a guy I was dating and my H. The guy I was dating blamed the OW. He basically tied her up and tossed her under the bus - not just shoved her in front of it. I am a little ashamed of my behavior afterwards - I found someone for a ONS had a great time with them - and then told him I cheated on him and that we were through. I was not a really kind person during my younger days.

 

When my H finally told me....he took all the blame. When I asked him why he hid it for so long since we do have an open marriage, he said it was because he was thinking of her and he knew I would be very upset and hurt and he didn't want me to take it out on her. He also didn't want to face my hurt and anger. I think that is partly why unlike the first time when I didn't even consider staying with the cheating jerk I didn't leave.

 

I kept actually trying to see if he would bad mouth her. He wouldn't even let me bad mouth her to him in the beginning - later actions by her and that changed some. I have to say, I did not lose as much respect for him because he owned his betrayal.

 

CCL

[White Flower]

I would care to clarify what all abreviations are!

 

Anyway, White Flower, as much as I understood, your MM, broke up with his wife finally? By the way, I've missed you.

 

Hey RP I've missed you too!

 

I'll PM you with an update. And thanks for your .02 here. I've missed your posting!

[White Flower]

 

However, one can discuss this point in general - what might/should/does any MM who accepts 100% culpability, think of the OW's role? I suspect if they always saw themselves in the driver's seat, and that vision is not altered after d-day, they may think of the OW as a blameless victim. If they see the A of more of an equal situation, then they may come to assign the same negative view of the OW's actions as they assign to their own.

That is why I started a new thread--I wanted to speak on the subject in general.

 

My MM happens to be a serial cheater. There is no way on God's green earth he can blame any OW as he was a preditor in his own game.

 

He KNEW the OWs would fall in love with him; he KNEW they would possibly call his house and threaten to tell his W; he KNEW he could risk losing everything each and every time he took up with a new OW. Facing all these risks, he kept on going.

 

He would be making a complete fool of himself if he were ever to claim any one of those women threw themselves at him, except the first who if I am to believe him was pretty predatorial herself. I'm sure there are predatorial women out there.

[White Flower]

There is altruistic love and there is selfish love. Selfish love is: you love the person that makes you feel good. This is the love you have for a partner. Very immature to hate someone for loving him the way you love a partner.

She also states:

 

So now he hates her too. I wish it wasn't true because I think it impedes his healing, but there it is.

 

To me this statement signifies a willingness to allow her H to hate the OW (because it makes her feel good) and not allow him to heal (which means you know what--trouble down the line). She states she wishes it wasn't so but quickly states, 'but there it is' in an accepting manner. Of course, this is my interpretation and not necessarily what she meant to say; it was a pretty long post and she may have been in a hurry to get her thought out there.

 

I think this is another aspect of what happens when the WH blames the OW. It impedes the healing process which is not healthy for the M.