When MP blames A on OP

[White Flower]

Interesting interesting.

 

I've had two guys cheat on me - a guy I was dating and my H. The guy I was dating blamed the OW. He basically tied her up and tossed her under the bus - not just shoved her in front of it. I am a little ashamed of my behavior afterwards - I found someone for a ONS had a great time with them - and then told him I cheated on him and that we were through. I was not a really kind person during my younger days.

 

When my H finally told me....he took all the blame. When I asked him why he hid it for so long since we do have an open marriage, he said it was because he was thinking of her and he knew I would be very upset and hurt and he didn't want me to take it out on her. He also didn't want to face my hurt and anger. I think that is partly why unlike the first time when I didn't even consider staying with the cheating jerk I didn't leave.

 

I kept actually trying to see if he would bad mouth her. He wouldn't even let me bad mouth her to him in the beginning - later actions by her and that changed some. I have to say, I did not lose as much respect for him because he owned his betrayal.

 

CCL

This is the stance I always take when faced with something like this.

 

When MM has spoken of OW in the past or his W currently I will always interupt if I even think he is going to say something bad about them. I don't mind listening to real pain and struggles, but blameshifting and namecalling is not allowed.

 

When my exH spoke of his exSO, who was the mother of his first-born child, I wouldn't let him speak badly of her either. What they'll say about another woman they'll also say about you. Get the story without allowing the namecalling and blameshifting.

[jennie-jennie]

She also states:

 

So now he hates her too. I wish it wasn't true because I think it impedes his healing, but there it is.

 

To me this statement signifies a willingness to allow her H to hate the OW (because it makes her feel good) and not allow him to heal (which means you know what--trouble down the line). She states she wishes it wasn't so but quickly states, 'but there it is' in an accepting manner. Of course, this is my interpretation and not necessarily what she meant to say; it was a pretty long post and she may have been in a hurry to get her thought out there.

 

Oh, I interpreted those very words as the WS hating himself as well. Don't you think it could be that? That would make more sense, although he too only was human in loving someone else, and should not hate himself for it.

 

Hmm, rereading your post again. Not sure if you mean that she hates the OW as well, or if you mean that the quoted words indicate an acceptance and allowance of her husband's feelings of hate although they are not her feelings.

I think this is another aspect of what happens when the WH blames the OW. It impedes the healing process which is not healthy for the M.

 

I think it impedes the healing process of not only the WS but of the BS as well. It leaves her obsessing about aspects of the OW and her behavior instead of dealing with more relevant issues to the marriage itself.

Edited August 23, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[White Flower]

She also states:

 

So now he hates her too. I wish it wasn't true because I think it impedes his healing, but there it is.

 

To me this statement signifies a willingness to allow her H to hate the OW (because it makes her feel good) and not allow him to heal (which means you know what--trouble down the line). She states she wishes it wasn't so but quickly states, 'but there it is' in an accepting manner. Of course, this is my interpretation and not necessarily what she meant to say; it was a pretty long post and she may have been in a hurry to get her thought out there.

 

I think this is another aspect of what happens when the WH blames the OW. It impedes the healing process which is not healthy for the M.

 

Oh, I interpreted those very words as the WS hating himself as well. Don't you think it could be that? That would make more sense, although he too only was human in loving someone else, and should not hate himself for it.

 

Hmm, rereading your post again. Not sure if you mean that she hates the OW as well, or if you mean that the quoted words indicate an acceptance and allowance of her husband's feelings of hate although they are not her feelings.

 

 

I think it impedes the healing process of not only the WS but of the BS as well. It leaves her obsessing about aspects of the OW and her behavior instead of dealing with more relevant issues to the marriage itself.

I meant that his hating of the OW impedes his own healing and the overall healing of the M while at the same time makes it appear that he is putting W above OW. BTW, he doesn't really need to say this because he has already proven his love by staying home.

 

I believe she easily accepts his hating of her even though she denies it.

 

He is killing two birds with one stone (I hate her and you are better) but he is not really healing his M nor himself, IMHO.

Edited August 23, 2010 by White Flower

[jennie-jennie]

I meant that his hating of the OW impedes his own healing and the overall healing of the M while at the same time makes it appear that he is putting W above OW. BTW, he doesn't really need to say this because he has already proven his love by staying home.

 

I believe she easily accepts his hating of her even though she denies it.

 

He is killing two birds with one stone (I hate her and you are better) but he is not really healing his M nor himself, IMHO.

 

I read that what you want is indifference. As long as there is hate after the end of a relationship (any relationship), the relationship still has power over you.

[pureinheart]

Interesting interesting.

 

I've had two guys cheat on me - a guy I was dating and my H. The guy I was dating blamed the OW. He basically tied her up and tossed her under the bus - not just shoved her in front of it. I am a little ashamed of my behavior afterwards - I found someone for a ONS had a great time with them - and then told him I cheated on him and that we were through. I was not a really kind person during my younger days.

 

When my H finally told me....he took all the blame. When I asked him why he hid it for so long since we do have an open marriage, he said it was because he was thinking of her and he knew I would be very upset and hurt and he didn't want me to take it out on her. He also didn't want to face my hurt and anger. I think that is partly why unlike the first time when I didn't even consider staying with the cheating jerk I didn't leave.

 

I kept actually trying to see if he would bad mouth her. He wouldn't even let me bad mouth her to him in the beginning - later actions by her and that changed some. I have to say, I did not lose as much respect for him because he owned his betrayal.

 

CCL

 

I've only had a couple that haven't found another pleasurable:eek:

 

CCL, you reacted to what happened to you, and doubt it has anything to do with you being a "nice person"...hey I was ornery as they came back then, and still am:D:lmao:

[White Flower]

I read that what you want is indifference. As long as there is hate after the end of a relationship (any relationship), the relationship still has power over you.

Exactly!!!

 

I once told my IC that my exH was indifferent towards me. I would come in the back door and he'd be facing me, looking at his computer, and never raise his head to say hello. This was near the end of our M.

 

My IC said clearly this was not indifference, this was anger! He said not raising his head and acknowledging me was his way of saying 'f*** y***!'. My IC, male, said he felt sorry for my then H, because he was suffering real pain and just didn't know how to express it.

 

And anger is not a far cry from hate.

[Fallen Angel]

BTW, he doesn't really need to say this because he has already proven his love by staying home .

 

Staying home doesn't prove love. Staying home proves that he is unwilling/unable to make a change in his current living arrangement. Changing his behaviours will prove his love.

 

I believe she easily accepts his hating of her even though she denies it.

 

I believe she not only accepts it, but is thrilled by the thought of it. What BS would not be thrilled to believe that their WS now hated the AP?

 

If you (general you, of course)can truly make yourself believe that, then you have nothing to fear in the way of possibly losing your WS to the AP, right? (At least to that particular AP, which is the one that a newly acknowledged BS would be most concerned about.)

 

He is killing two birds with one stone (I hate her and you are better) but he is not really healing his M nor himself, IMHO.

 

Exactly! Which is why I think it is part of the "protect your own a$$" manipulation game that many WSs play after a D-day. I do not think it is actually the truth in most affairs. *shrug*

 

But, if it makes the BS feel better.........

[OWoman]

However, one can discuss this point in general - what might/should/does any MM who accepts 100% culpability, think of the OW's role? I suspect if they always saw themselves in the driver's seat, and that vision is not altered after d-day, they may think of the OW as a blameless victim. If they see the A of more of an equal situation, then they may come to assign the same negative view of the OW's actions as they assign to their own.

 

I was a "predatory" OW. I always chose MMs who were (as far as I could tell) happily M, who had never had - or even considered - an A before, and I always made the move on them once I checked them out. I was never a victim, nor was I ever manipulative in letting them think that they had seduced me. However, at the very outset, before anything "happened", I always sat them down for "the talk", where I outlined exactly what I had in mind, what my demands and expectations were, what the boundaries were, what the intended outcomes were. I made sure that they thought through exactly what they would be getting into, that they were aware of - and resolved to - any possible (and some impossible) consequences and that they fully accepted their own responsibility for their own actions and their role in the A (and anything to do with their M - that was entirely THEIR issue, not mine!).

 

They were 100% responsible for their choice - and it was always a choice - to engage in the A. I was accountable to no one for my behaviour - and in that I was "blameless" in that I warranted no blame. (Innocent, no - but that's a different matter!) They had free will to choose to accept or reject my proposition; having accepted, they were responsible for that.

 

Yes, many of them were Knights. And AFAIK none of them ever "blamed" anyone - "blame" is something to be ascribed in a situation of wrongdoing, and AFAIK, none of them ever regarded the A as something bad that needed blaming on anyone. It was something they chose to partake in - much like one might have an ice cream when one has already eaten a healthy meal: you don't really need the nutrition, but it's a pleasurable experience to be enjoyed. Few people feel the need to blame themselves, or anyone else, for their enjoyment of an ice cream

[Spark1111]

Hi WF, I found those comments you mentioned very odd, or at least unusual from the reading I've done on LS.

 

I don't think the H should 'blame' the AP at all, whatsoever... yuk! However, he could conceivably lose respect for her.

 

It may be very simple though. She may be one of those (and I know they exist) for whom the very existence of an affair is deemed exciting and puts her (she feels) in to a position of superiority over the H's other relationship. She may have been a Cheating Cheerleader, encouraging him to lie and getting off on the whole situation.

 

If that were the case I could probably find it easier to understand the quotes that were in that particular thread.

 

Smart, smart girl.

 

 

There are many different types of affairs; many differing types of OW; many different types of marriages.

[Spark1111]

This is the stance I always take when faced with something like this.

 

When MM has spoken of OW in the past or his W currently I will always interupt if I even think he is going to say something bad about them. I don't mind listening to real pain and struggles, but blameshifting and namecalling is not allowed.

 

When my exH spoke of his exSO, who was the mother of his first-born child, I wouldn't let him speak badly of her either. What they'll say about another woman they'll also say about you. Get the story without allowing the namecalling and blameshifting.

 

Ahh...that's because you have true class.....

 

Some OW try to engage the MM in maligning the wife, in pointing out all flaws, real or imagined; of creating non-existant scenarios to make themselves appear like the better choice, the better partner, the better steward of having a reltionship with him.

 

Imagine that?

[torranceshipman]

Keep in mind her H suffers from KISA (Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome). My MM does as well. Funny how the very thing they lure you in with is the very thing they later blame the OW for when the title is stripped after D-day.

 

KISA is really a nice way of saying 'teflon guy' He wants what he wants, he says and does what he needs to get it, and he avoids the inevitable fall out as much as possible by blaming other people when the crap hits the fan.

[OWoman]

Ahh...that's because you have true class.....

 

Some OW try to engage the MM in maligning the wife, in pointing out all flaws, real or imagined; of creating non-existant scenarios to make themselves appear like the better choice, the better partner, the better steward of having a reltionship with him.

 

Imagine that?

 

Sounds like insecurity to me, whether it's an OW, a BW or anyone else doing that. People who are secure in themselves and know their own worth do not have to score points against anyone else.

[2sure]

As a BS...if my H had in any way blamed an OW for any part of his infidelity I think I would have had to react more extreme than I did.

Even the thought that an OW could be expected to be partially responsible for his actions...is beyond the pale.

 

But...also as a BS - I did end up personally blaming several OW ( there were a few) for taking part in my life without my knowledge. The 2 that knew me personally - had hell to pay and it had little to do with my husband's part in it. It was because they knowingly took part in my life secretly and I would have reacted the same whether the circumstances of that participation involved my husband, my family, my finances, my business etc. Even then, if my H had blamed them for his actions - I would have defended them.

[lilbunny]

Ok, as a BS, I blame my WH 100% for what he has done to our M by having an A.

 

BUT, I also blame OW for being what she is....She knew he was married, but she came on to him, complimenting him, boosting his ego, making googly eyes, placing her hand on his leg, arm, etc when she was talking to him. OW knew exactly what she was doing, and she also is to blame for her actions.

 

I didn't do any of those things. I didn't consciously seek to have an A with this man in particular or indeed with anyone.

 

These OW/OM who know what is going on are just as responsible as the MM/MW who cheat. How a person could willingly cause another individual so much pain and heartache I will never understand. If you get involved with a MM/MW, you know that they are liars and cheaters, and you know, deep down, that no matter what they tell you about their BS (how bad the marriage is, how ugly/fat/stupid/whatever their BS is towards them), they are most likely lying to get you in the sack.

 

At no point did he tell me any of these things. He never spoke badly of his wife or their M, the opposite in fact.

 

They will never belong to OW/OM 100%. They go home to their BS and lie about A and the relationship that they have with you. They lie about you. They deny your relationship, which means that they deny you and your "love" for one another. There is nothing to be proud of as a OW/OM.

 

I agree it isn't something I am proud of.

 

The OW/OM knowingly cause an incomprehensible amount of pain to BS and it seems, for the most part, the OW/OM is in the fog about their relationship with MM/MW, thinking about the fantasy world that they have created as reality, or someday soon a reality when MM/MW leaves their BS (which they hardly ever do).

 

He did leave. I sent him home because it seemed to me the right thing to do and he should think very carefully before doing something that would hurt a lot of people.

 

Time to wake up and see it for what it is, an excuse for MM/MW to get selffish ego boosting cake.

 

But no, in this case, while it is not right for MM/MW to blame OW/OM, this one does also accept responsibility for his actions as well as blaming OW for this. OW knew he was married but she didn't care.

 

I'm sure some don't. I cared. Hurting people isn't something I enjoy.

 

 

I suppose what I am getting at is that not all cases are the same and it is clear that you do blame the OW to a large degree, it is perfectly understandable in your position, but I still feel strongly that ultimately the married party is the one who has the choice to say yes or no and has made the committment to someone else in the first place.

 

Although I was not 'predatory' in any way I agree with much of what Owoman says (I often do btw) it makes sense to me that I am not part of that M and therefore I can't see how I can be blamed for what went on in it. MM or MW that blame the other party are just squirming their way out of trouble and passing the buck (uniting against a common enemy is a strategy most dictatorships have used to distract everyone from all the bad things they are doing). Spouses that believe them and take part in it might well be doing what is psychologically conveniant for them if they want to continue with the M.

[Spark1111]

Sounds like insecurity to me, whether it's an OW, a BW or anyone else doing that. People who are secure in themselves and know their own worth do not have to score points against anyone else.

 

My point exactly......or rather, his point today................

[Owl]

My wife doesn't blame xOM in her EA. She believes that she was the one totally at fault for having the affair.

 

I don't blame OM for the EA. My wife was the one who opted to pursue a relationship when it "crossed those lines".

 

I do blame him for the lies and deception he perpatrated against me. He claimed to be a friend, all the while pursuing the EA with my wife. I blame him for the lie of that "friendship" (was there ever actually one?) I blame him for assisting in decieving me, in trying to teach my wife how to avoid getting caught, in continuing to try to maintain the ruse that nothing was going on, and in trying to minimize the seriousness of what they were doing so that the affair could continue.

 

I also have to note that when he realized that my wife was having "second thoughts" about leaving to be with him, he chose to "force the issue" just as I was doing. He didn't suggest that things continue underground, but instead made it clear that he wanted her to make a choice and stick with it. And when it DID become clear that she chose to be with me...he "manned up" and enforced things on his side to prevent the affair from resuming.

 

Bottom line is that I believe that everyone in MY particular situation (to include myself) accepted their role and responsibilities in what happened...and moved on when it was over.

 

At this point I surely don't want to see OM come back into our lives in any fashion today...but as long as he stays out of our lives, I don't wish him any ill anymore as I used to.

[OWoman]

As a BS...if my H had in any way blamed an OW for any part of his infidelity I think I would have had to react more extreme than I did.

Even the thought that an OW could be expected to be partially responsible for his actions...is beyond the pale.

 

But...also as a BS - I did end up personally blaming several OW ( there were a few) for taking part in my life without my knowledge. The 2 that knew me personally - had hell to pay and it had little to do with my husband's part in it. It was because they knowingly took part in my life secretly and I would have reacted the same whether the circumstances of that participation involved my husband, my family, my finances, my business etc. Even then, if my H had blamed them for his actions - I would have defended them.

 

2Sure this makes a lot of sense. The OW who had a pre-existing R with you were betraying that R, and you, with their actions, quite separately from your H betraying you, and your M, through his actions. Both they, and he, had loyalties that should have lain with you - which they betrayed - for which they are separately responsible. Blaming each other for that would have been a further insult.

[2sure]

For some reason I have major wrath for a WS who blames the AP.

The BS blaming everyone all the way around is understandable to a degree and dependent on circumstances.

But the WS blaming the AP??????? Seriously, that would be like his saying:

 

I have seriously betrayed, damaged, and abused you....but its not my fault. I would rather he say: OW was wonderful, hot, and I couldnt resist.

[Spark1111]

I could see where the MS might be angry at the AP more, if the AP was constantly pressuring him/her to leave the BS, pushing him to sneak out more often, pushing him to take more risks, or generally take the affair further than MS really wanted to, etc. (maybe this was what Silly Girl meant by a Cheerleader type - I don't know what that term means.)

 

Still, I think the WS should take 100% responsibility for betraying the Spouse.

 

Excellent point! Very, very insightful.

 

And is it in the best interests of the A relationship to do so? Or is it in the best interest of the AP? Could an AP have a hidden agenda? One that has less to do with love than with revenge? On an xH and his new wife, perhaps? Could the OW also have kept her secrets from the MM?

 

Could it take a MP a while to realize this? Because he did feel love, believe it WAS love?

 

Felt guilty with everyone, blamed himself fully.

 

But over time realize there were other elements involved? Things he did not, could not, was not ready to examine on a deeper level? Things that made him scratch his head and say, "Hmmmm.....I wonder why she never told me that?"

 

Could be.

[OWoman]

I have seriously betrayed, damaged, and abused you....but its not my fault. I would rather he say: OW was wonderful, hot, and I couldnt resist.

 

I think if my H ever had to "cheat" on me and the OW wasn't so hot that he couldn't resist, I would mangle him for his lack of taste! Some things are unforgiveable, and poor taste is one of them

[Spark1111]

She also states:

 

So now he hates her too. I wish it wasn't true because I think it impedes his healing, but there it is.

 

To me this statement signifies a willingness to allow her H to hate the OW (because it makes her feel good) and not allow him to heal (which means you know what--trouble down the line). She states she wishes it wasn't so but quickly states, 'but there it is' in an accepting manner. Of course, this is my interpretation and not necessarily what she meant to say; it was a pretty long post and she may have been in a hurry to get her thought out there.

 

I think this is another aspect of what happens when the WH blames the OW. It impedes the healing process which is not healthy for the M.

 

WF, frankly I am surprised by this. You know me better, or so I thought.

 

My entire thread is reposted here.

 

Why not ask me directly on my thread what I meant?

 

What I thought?

 

Why I think it impedes healing?

 

Why my H had lost respect for his former OW?

[bentnotbroken]

As a BS...if my H had in any way blamed an OW for any part of his infidelity I think I would have had to react more extreme than I did.

Even the thought that an OW could be expected to be partially responsible for his actions...is beyond the pale.

 

But...also as a BS - I did end up personally blaming several OW ( there were a few) for taking part in my life without my knowledge. The 2 that knew me personally - had hell to pay and it had little to do with my husband's part in it. It was because they knowingly took part in my life secretly and I would have reacted the same whether the circumstances of that participation involved my husband, my family, my finances, my business etc. Even then, if my H had blamed them for his actions - I would have defended them.

 

 

Yes, that it exactly! My issues with the OW were based on the things SHE did. His actions belonged to him alone. She didn't have her hand stuck up his azz making him mouth words or giving him brain farts. But she made conscious choices and actions where my children and I were concerned.

[WTFBBQ]

WF, frankly I am surprised by this. You know me better, or so I thought.

 

My entire thread is reposted here.

 

Why not ask me directly on my thread what I meant?

 

What I thought?

 

Why I think it impedes healing?

 

Why my H had lost respect for his former OW?

Obviously, she didn't want your answer; she wanted others answer about you.

[Fieldsofgold]

Excellent point! Very, very insightful.

 

And is it in the best interests of the A relationship to do so? Or is it in the best interest of the AP? Could an AP have a hidden agenda? One that has less to do with love than with revenge? On an xH and his new wife, perhaps? Could the OW also have kept her secrets from the MM?

 

Could it take a MP a while to realize this? Because he did feel love, believe it WAS love?

 

Felt guilty with everyone, blamed himself fully.

 

But over time realize there were other elements involved? Things he did not, could not, was not ready to examine on a deeper level? Things that made him scratch his head and say, "Hmmmm.....I wonder why she never told me that?"

 

Could be.

 

I hadn't thought of that. More valid reasons why the WS might have bad thoughts toward the AP. Not that she was doing things out of her desperate love for him/desire to be with him, but that she had an agenda for her own personal gain/gratification that he wasn't aware of until after the A ended.

 

I could see that - whether it was revenge, jealous of the W, personal ego trip, financial gain - I'm sure there have been plenty of devious reasons why an AP might promote an A, besides love or good sex. And I am sure there have been plenty of WS's who've been fooled, thinking the A was all about love or sex. I'm sure that's happened more than once!

 

In that context, I could see the WS taking responsibility, but also viewing the OW harshly.

[Snowflower]

She also states:

 

So now he hates her too. I wish it wasn't true because I think it impedes his healing, but there it is.

 

To me this statement signifies a willingness to allow her H to hate the OW (because it makes her feel good) and not allow him to heal (which means you know what--trouble down the line). She states she wishes it wasn't so but quickly states, 'but there it is' in an accepting manner. Of course, this is my interpretation and not necessarily what she meant to say; it was a pretty long post and she may have been in a hurry to get her thought out there.

 

I think this is another aspect of what happens when the WH blames the OW. It impedes the healing process which is not healthy for the M.

 

Oh, I interpreted those very words as the WS hating himself as well. Don't you think it could be that? That would make more sense, although he too only was human in loving someone else, and should not hate himself for it.

 

Hmm, rereading your post again. Not sure if you mean that she hates the OW as well, or if you mean that the quoted words indicate an acceptance and allowance of her husband's feelings of hate although they are not her feelings.

 

 

I think it impedes the healing process of not only the WS but of the BS as well. It leaves her obsessing about aspects of the OW and her behavior instead of dealing with more relevant issues to the marriage itself.

 

I meant that his hating of the OW impedes his own healing and the overall healing of the M while at the same time makes it appear that he is putting W above OW. BTW, he doesn't really need to say this because he has already proven his love by staying home.

 

I believe she easily accepts his hating of her even though she denies it.

 

He is killing two birds with one stone (I hate her and you are better) but he is not really healing his M nor himself, IMHO.

 

This is unreal and cruel.

 

Isn't it against the TOS to post about another member? I'm sure no one would like to open up LS one day and see their situation being discussed as a topic on a thread that someone else started.

 

If anyone is that curious about the situation, just ask the poster directly.