I get it!

[giotto]

I would prefer to leave this conversation here now if you don't mind as I cannot see how this is helping my situation.

 

You are welcome... he is a gamaphobic, then... glad to see you got to the bottom of it...

[LisaUk]

Thank you for your perspective Giotto, I don't think I have gotten to the bottom of it, only he can do that and as he is still in therapy, I don't think he even knows why he did this, plus every time I spoke to him after he left he gave different and conflicting reasons for leaving.

 

All I can do and have done is make sense of it the best way that I can and taken the advice of various family, friends, poeple on here and health care professionals, that they (and I) believe he has a commitment issue. I have moved past the point of asking why? now, that's why I said I would prefer not to keep going over it. There is no point, only he has the answers and I have achieved as much closure as I am able to do so with the inside information I have. It just hurts to keep going round and round. There is no point to it, it achieves nothing.

 

What is important to me now is to concentrate on how I am feeling as a result of his actions and how I can get past this and move on with my life as I have no other option but to do so. Thank you again for taking the time to write me.

[Helter_Skelter]

Thank you Lisa, you are of course correct. Intellectually, I do know where it comes from (parents) I just haven't nailed the source feeling just yet. I did start to spin out but I am trying to keep with it even though it is really hard and I do falter (i.e. obsess about the loss of other options). I want you to know that your words are really helping me. I will look into your suggestion for the different type of therapist/therapy.

 

As for you, you sound pretty self aware. I don't know what your path looks like of course but it sounds like you will be OK either way. It seems you know this as well and he may have a different path but perhaps you are growing from this experience and making a difference for others (like myself). This is something you can take some pride in - even from across the sea! (I am in Canada)

[LisaUk]

Thank you Lisa, you are of course correct. Intellectually, I do know where it comes from (parents) I just haven't nailed the source feeling just yet. I did start to spin out but I am trying to keep with it even though it is really hard and I do falter (i.e. obsess about the loss of other options). I want you to know that your words are really helping me. I will look into your suggestion for the different type of therapist/therapy.

 

As for you, you sound pretty self aware. I don't know what your path looks like of course but it sounds like you will be OK either way. It seems you know this as well and he may have a different path but perhaps you are growing from this experience and making a difference for others (like myself). This is something you can take some pride in - even from across the sea! (I am in Canada)

 

Hi Helter, I am glad that I am helping you. I hope that maybe you will be able to help me also?

 

I think in my ex's case he is not aware/unwilling/unable to admit he has a problem, like what you described in another post, you thought the problem was her, now she has gone you know it isn't, the problem lies with you. Of course this backed up by the fact that now she is back again, you are back to feeling fear again. This is certainly the vibe I got from my ex, he was so up and down the last 5 weeks before he left, at one point I told him I would leave, he got very anxious and persuaded me to stay. It really did appear that he was struggling with himself, he was having regular full blown panic attacks and his behaviour was eratic and conflicting.

 

Since he left his behaviour has been even more eratic and his reasons for leaving me have changed and changed back again and then back again. One minute he is saying one thing, the next he gives another reason that is the exact opposite of the first reason. Both cannot logically be correct. He has also expressed doubt about his decision to leave, then come full circle again. It has got to the point where I have had to go no contact with him, just to protect myself from further hurt.

 

He displayed a lot of the behaviours that you describe, such as leaving quickly after sex, working excessively long hours. He would start projects and hobbies and never finish them. He did not take care of his possesions. Could I ask, do you withdraw into your self? What I mean is my ex would very often appear to be in his own head, if you know what I mean by that. His mum took him to the doctor as a child and said "there's something wrong with him, he is in a world of his own". I put this down to an attention problem, now I'm thinking maybe it was to do with commitment phobia, a sort of bubble, going into oneself to remove himself from me?

 

What really hurts about it all is that I know it is incrediably hard to suffer with a phobia and panic attacks. I have personal experience (7 years worth) or both following a stomach illness I had. However, I would never, even amist my worse panic attack, have let it harm my ex or anyone else. It hurts me so much to think he allowed his fear to cause me excrucating pain.

 

I know it looks like I am starting to get past this and I am, because I have to, I have no choice, I would much rather he got himself right and came back to me, I love him so much there aren't words to describe it. It has taken me nearly 4 months to get to this point, you know the pain you described on your wife leaving, on your first post? Imagine having that pain and worse, every day for 4 months and you will get the picture about what I have had to endure. Perhaps it will help to get you rooted in a desire to resolve your problem to think this is what you will experience if your wife leaves again and it is also the pain that your wife will have to endure. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

[Helter_Skelter]

Hi Helter, I am glad that I am helping you. I hope that maybe you will be able to help me also?

 

I think in my ex's case he is not aware/unwilling/unable to admit he has a problem, like what you described in another post, you thought the problem was her, now she has gone you know it isn't, the problem lies with you. Of course this backed up by the fact that now she is back again, you are back to feeling fear again. This is certainly the vibe I got from my ex, he was so up and down the last 5 weeks before he left, at one point I told him I would leave, he got very anxious and persuaded me to stay. It really did appear that he was struggling with himself, he was having regular full blown panic attacks and his behaviour was eratic and conflicting.

 

Since he left his behaviour has been even more eratic and his reasons for leaving me have changed and changed back again and then back again. One minute he is saying one thing, the next he gives another reason that is the exact opposite of the first reason. Both cannot logically be correct. He has also expressed doubt about his decision to leave, then come full circle again. It has got to the point where I have had to go no contact with him, just to protect myself from further hurt.

 

He displayed a lot of the behaviours that you describe, such as leaving quickly after sex, working excessively long hours. He would start projects and hobbies and never finish them. He did not take care of his possesions. Could I ask, do you withdraw into your self? What I mean is my ex would very often appear to be in his own head, if you know what I mean by that. His mum took him to the doctor as a child and said "there's something wrong with him, he is in a world of his own". I put this down to an attention problem, now I'm thinking maybe it was to do with commitment phobia, a sort of bubble, going into oneself to remove himself from me?

 

What really hurts about it all is that I know it is incrediably hard to suffer with a phobia and panic attacks. I have personal experience (7 years worth) or both following a stomach illness I had. However, I would never, even amist my worse panic attack, have let it harm my ex or anyone else. It hurts me so much to think he allowed his fear to cause me excrucating pain.

 

I know it looks like I am starting to get past this and I am, because I have to, I have no choice, I would much rather he got himself right and came back to me, I love him so much there aren't words to describe it. It has taken me nearly 4 months to get to this point, you know the pain you described on your wife leaving, on your first post? Imagine having that pain and worse, every day for 4 months and you will get the picture about what I have had to endure. Perhaps it will help to get you rooted in a desire to resolve your problem to think this is what you will experience if your wife leaves again and it is also the pain that your wife will have to endure. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

 

I can tell you that when I'm with her (like now) it feels like an anxiousness and a tightening of my insides. I fluctuate from thoughts of 'she is obviously not for me' to 'maybe I am just scared'. The former usually wins out for obvious reasons.

 

In addition, I have become very risk averse in other aspects of my life. Difficulty deciding which car to buy, business decisions, choosing a restaurant, etc. My fear of committing seems to be pervasive in my life. Is that so with him?

 

For me it has been an evolution of sorts. By myself I am not really withdrawn but with her I am a different person - a shadow of myself. Withdrawn, tired, lazy with no desire and difficulty feeling happiness. When we have been apart from each other for extended periods I did not miss her but rather was overjoyed about my freedom. Those were the times when I knew she or I was coming back. Of course when she was leaving for good it was a different story.

 

Up until very recently I would blame everything on two things that I felt were major issues in our relationship: fighting and lack of empathy. I felt we fought too much (and we did) and I have trouble with a lot of yelling and screaming. My wife can be volatile with little patience and she tends to take a long time to calm down when she is upset. This drained me.

 

The other piece was that I wanted empathy and affection that she couldn't give me. When my mother was ill and then passed away she had difficulty just giving to me without getting something in return at the time. I had a very hard time and needed emotional support more than anything else. She was able to give me practical support (helping around the house etc.) but had a very hard time just being there for me. One time when I was at a low and obviously very upset (when I realized my mother's mind was going) she asked me if I was looking for sympathy. It boggled me that she could think or say that and it hurt me a lot and to this day I have trouble letting that go. This is still an issue although I have zero leverage these days as I detached myself from her rather than try to continue and engage her emotionally. I blamed everything on these issues.

 

I realize now that my fear of commitment goes both ways. If I accept her and want to be with her than we will work through these issues and if not I would need to commit to not being together. None of that is new to me except the focus is on what I want and do rather than reacting to everything that she wants and does in a passive aggressive mode.

 

A difference between you and my wife it seems, is that you are very interested in helping him get past this if its what he wants to do. In my case, my wife just wants me to push through it and doesn't really know how to be involved and perhaps no longer has the patience or energy for it. We will see how that plays out.

[LisaUk]

 

He worked excessively long hours, brought work home regularly, even on vacation.

 

He left after sex, got up, dressed quickly and went downstairs, no cuddles etc. ( I actually thought this was a habit developed when we were teenagers, as his parents would be coming home etc)

 

The 8 year engagement. Excuses everytime I brought up setting the date.

 

Bolted when we had set the date.

 

When he took out the wedding insurance I caught him gripping the arms of the chair, he said "all feels a bit real".

 

He didn't look after his posessions, including his car, our house, garden.

 

He didn't want us to get the cat (it was a trial on that one).

 

 

After he left-

"I just became more and more independant"

"You were too dependant on me"

"I want someone who is as independant as I am and we just come together when we feel like it"

"I couldn't be in a realtionship that wasn't 100% perfect"

"I feel liberated"

"I feel free"

"I was thinking about things last night and I'm just starting to figure out more why I did it, I want to be single, it could have been anyone, someone perfect, I just want to be single"

"I don't want to have to consider another person, I want to do what I want to do, when I want to do it"

 

Hi Helter, thanks for coming back to me. I've taken a quote from one of my earlier post that gives some, although not all of my ex's behaviours.

 

I've read that each commitment phobe has a different trigger point and a different level of functioning. I'm guessing my ex's trigger point was marriage. As he is unable/unwilling/unaware of his problem (if it is this), all I can do is tell you about his behaviours.

 

You asked if he had trouble with commitment in other areas of his life, when purchasing a car he researched it throughly, took a long time and went over the options again and again, going back and forth a lot. I myself have difficulty making decisions, so it did not appear odd to me at the time.

 

He was often withdrawn, tired and very lazy. He made me feel like a nag. I did everything in the house, the garden, cleaned his car even cleaned his shoes for him. If I asked him to do anything he would say yes, but wouldn't do it, I'd have to ask repeadtedly, I felt like I was nagging in the end, so I would do it myself. He procrastinated all the time.

 

Is passive aggressive behaviour consisitent with commitment phobia then? I don't know a lot about it, I've had a look at some examples on the web, he did seem to display some of these.

Procrastination

He was a massive liar and always made excuses for his behaviour, Forgetful

He avoided conflict (this was a big issue after we split he said he had discovered in therapy that because of the way his parents raised him, he has learnt to smooth things over. He said "I would brush my feelings aside to avoid an argument or hurting you").

He was sneaky, he would say one thing to me and do the opposite, or be underhanded and go behind my back and do it anyway, then say "Oh I thought we agreed it was ok".

Losing things

He would tell people what they want to hear (he suggested I should do this to, when I asked his advice on something he said "just nod along and agree with her, make her think you have agreed, but when it comes up again, say you're not sure."

 

I'm not sure, it's like trying to piece together a puzzle.

 

In your post you said up until recently you blamed everything on two issues. I read somewhere, that a person with commitment phobia will always blame there feelings on what they see as problems in the relationship, whether they are real or not, if that helps any?

 

You are right, I would be willing to help my ex through this, if he wanted to any further insight you can give me wiould be much appreciated, if nothing else it will help to bring me some closure. Have you told your wife what your problem is? The book I suggested may help her understand, if she is willing.

[Gunny376]

Hi Helter, thanks for coming back to me. I've taken a quote from one of my earlier post that gives some, although not all of my ex's behaviours.

 

I've read that each commitment phobe has a different trigger point and a different level of functioning. I'm guessing my ex's trigger point was marriage. As he is unable/unwilling/unaware of his problem (if it is this), all I can do is tell you about his behaviours.

 

You asked if he had trouble with commitment in other areas of his life, when purchasing a car he researched it thoroughly, took a long time and went over the options again and again, going back and forth a lot. I myself have difficulty making decisions, so it did not appear odd to me at the time.

 

He was often withdrawn, tired and very lazy. He made me feel like a nag. I did everything in the house, the garden, cleaned his car even cleaned his shoes for him. If I asked him to do anything he would say yes, but wouldn't do it, I'd have to ask repeatedly, I felt like I was nagging in the end, so I would do it myself. He procrastinated all the time.

 

Is passive aggressive behaviour consistent with commitment phobia then? I don't know a lot about it, I've had a look at some examples on the web, he did seem to display some of these.

 

Procrastination

 

He was a massive liar and always made excuses for his behaviour,

 

Forgetful

 

He avoided conflict (this was a big issue after we split he said he had discovered in therapy that because of the way his parents raised him, he has learnt to smooth things over. He said "I would brush my feelings aside to avoid an argument or hurting you").

 

He was sneaky, he would say one thing to me and do the opposite, or be underhanded and go behind my back and do it anyway, then say "Oh I thought we agreed it was OK".

 

Losing things

 

He would tell people what they want to hear (he suggested I should do this to, when I asked his advice on something he said "just nod along and agree with her, make her think you have agreed, but when it comes up again, say you're not sure."

 

I'm not sure, it's like trying to piece together a puzzle.

 

In your post you said up until recently you blamed everything on two issues. I read somewhere, that a person with commitment phobia will always blame there feelings on what they see as problems in the relationship, whether they are real or not, if that helps any?

 

You are right, I would be willing to help my ex through this, if he wanted to any further insight you can give me would be much appreciated, if nothing else it will help to bring me some closure. Have you told your wife what your problem is? The book I suggested may help her understand, if she is willing.

 

And this is the guy you want to spend the rest of your life with?

 

Where in tha' Hell did you get into your head that this guy was the best and only one that you could ever get?

 

Too damn bad Hallmark doesn't make a "Thank You, Thank You, Thank You For Leaving Me Card!"

 

You should be doing cart-wheels, skipping along, dancing through the clover, jumping and shouting for joy ~ like a lunatic that just escaped the asylum that your free of this guy!

 

I know, I know! You in love with the jerk?

 

But all too often we fall in love with the very person that is the absolute worse person for us mentally, psychologically, emotionally, financially and yes even physically?

 

I look at the XHEX, and I stand in wonderment and awe as to what I ever saw in her to begin with?

 

Being married to her? Was like dragging a dead horse around with everywhere I went?

 

I've thought more than once about calling up her 'toy-boy' that she was cheating on me with and eventually left me for, and in the end married?

 

And thanking him! :bunny: :bunny:

 

For taking her off my hands!

 

She gets older, meaner, cranker, uglier with each passing day!

 

But I'm free of her and her insane BS!

 

I was told as a child.

 

"You can play now and pay for the rest of your life?

 

Or you can pay now! And play for the rest of your life!"

 

Guess what? I'm reaping hard earned dividends from my youth! And its nothing but 'gravy' now! And its gets better with each passing day.

 

There is such a thing as "paralysis by analysis?"

 

Your never going to find all the pieces to the puzzle ~ so quit trying!

 

If he doesn't have the answer to the questions and solutions to the problems? You never will!

 

He cannot tell you the reason he bailed? Because he doesn't even know himself!

 

Trying to figure all this out is like a dog trying to chase and catch its own tail!

 

It will never happen!

 

Quit going around and around in circles chasing your own tail!

 

Get busy living your life ~ you've wasted enough of the best years of your life on the Azzhat!

[LisaUk]

So true Gunny, I know I'll never get to the end of the puzzle, but in trying to figure it out I have realised things I was blind to before. It has helped because by SEEING thses things clearly now, I can see he wasn't all that!

 

I think I am starting to move on, I certainly feel much better than I did a couple of weeks ago, perhaps I'm not quite there yet, but I will be.

[LisaUk]

So, I am backsliding today. Had dreams about him all last night, not a good morning so far. I just keep having that moment of disbelief, disbelief that he has done this. I so want to move past this, I've told myself I can and will move past this, then one bad night, one bad dream and it all slides back again. So fed up.

[tojaz]

Just let it happen Lisa, you've been here for my backslides, and there is nothing that can be done except to let it happen and move ahead. I,ve noticed as things move along that these episodes get shorter and shorter although I have them everyday at least once (when I wake up) and even now, sitting in her, no wait MY office with her stuff all stacked up waiting to go. Watch a movie or otherwise occupy your mind for awhile and it will pass. Stay strong Lisa

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Just let it happen Lisa, you've been here for my backslides, and there is nothing that can be done except to let it happen and move ahead. I,ve noticed as things move along that these episodes get shorter and shorter although I have them everyday at least once (when I wake up) and even now, sitting in her, no wait MY office with her stuff all stacked up waiting to go. Watch a movie or otherwise occupy your mind for awhile and it will pass. Stay strong Lisa

TOJAZ

 

Thanks Tojaz, I have to do some driving theory revision and get my test booked, my instructor is nagging me, so maybe that will take my mind of it for a bit this afternoon. Will be popping in on LS as well, oh I HATE HIM!

[tojaz]

Thanks Tojaz, I have to do some driving theory revision and get my test booked, my instructor is nagging me, so maybe that will take my mind of it for a bit this afternoon. Will be popping in on LS as well, oh I HATE HIM!

 

No you don't, this would be much easier if you did! I only wish I could hate the wife, she has given me every reason to, but I don't. Good luck with the driving, hows it coming?

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

No you don't, this would be much easier if you did! I only wish I could hate the wife, she has given me every reason to, but I don't. Good luck with the driving, hows it coming?

TOJAZ

 

Drivings not going too bad, long way to go yet. We have to do a theory and hazard perception test here in the UK, that's the study I have to do. Knowing my luck on test day I'll get all the motor maintainace questions rather than the traffic signs! Practically, I have the clutch control but still can't steer, my dad is taking me to an off road driving school tomorrow to help me get to grips with steering, without worrying about hitting anything, or anyone! I went round a corner with my instructor the other evening and there were two blokes ON THE PAVEMENT (sidewalk), who actually jumped backwards out of fear! Oh, it's like a comedy farce!

[tojaz]

Drivings not going too bad, long way to go yet. We have to do a theory and hazard perception test here in the UK, that's the study I have to do. Knowing my luck on test day I'll get all the motor maintainace questions rather than the traffic signs! Practically, I have the clutch control but still can't steer, my dad is taking me to an off road driving school tomorrow to help me get to grips with steering, without worrying about hitting anything, or anyone! I went round a corner with my instructor the other evening and there were two blokes ON THE PAVEMENT (sidewalk), who actually jumped backwards out of fear! Oh, it's like a comedy farce!

 

I can just picture this happening, with the Benny Hill music in the background, made my day.:laugh:

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

I can just picture this happening, with the Benny Hill music in the background, made my day.:laugh:

TOJAZ

 

You got it! My instructor is always joking with me as well, he said the other night, "try to stay on the bridge Lisa" I replied "cheeky b**ger". Hope I can get the steering better after the off road with my dad tomo!

[tojaz]

I think your problem is, the wheel is on the wrong side. You should see a mechanic.:laugh:

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

I think your problem is, the wheel is on the wrong side. You should see a mechanic.:laugh:

TOJAZ

 

 

Ha Ha! It went well today, spent 4 hours driving on the off road track with my dad, bless him, my dad is lovely, so patient, didn't even mind when I stalled 5 times at the traffic lights!

 

I really enjoyed it, am so cream crackered now though, I hate myself though for having the thought that it would have been nice if it was my ex taking me round today, he always said he would teach me to drive.

[tojaz]

Ha Ha! It went well today, spent 4 hours driving on the off road track with my dad, bless him, my dad is lovely, so patient, didn't even mind when I stalled 5 times at the traffic lights!

 

I really enjoyed it, am so cream crackered now though, I hate myself though for having the thought that it would have been nice if it was my ex taking me round today, he always said he would teach me to drive.

 

Hmmmmm! Commited to teaching you to drive, but never followed through? I think I see a pattern here.

 

I'm glad you had fun, your dad sounds like a very patient person. I remember teaching my wife to drive, my sister too, very nerve racking.

 

You must explain CREAM CRACKERED to me though, that is a new one.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Sorry, it's cockney rhymeing slang. It means knackered (tired out). Do you have cream crackers there? They are crackers you put chesse on, don't understand the cream bit though?

 

Just realised the time there, no work today?

[tojaz]

Sorry, it's cockney rhymeing slang. It means knackered (tired out). Do you have cream crackers there? They are crackers you put chesse on, don't understand the cream bit though?

 

Just realised the time there, no work today?

 

Yeah, we have them. We just call them crackers though, I'll have to try that some time "hey boss, I'm a little cream crackered today, think I'll knock off" :laugh: He'd think i lost my mind!

 

Left work early, ran out of things to do, nice thing about comission, no standing around.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Yeah, we have them. We just call them crackers though, I'll have to try that some time "hey boss, I'm a little cream crackered today, think I'll knock off" :laugh: He'd think i lost my mind!

 

Left work early, ran out of things to do, nice thing about comission, no standing around.

TOJAZ

 

Sorry I stopped posting, friend just called. I feel terrible I just realised whilst talking to her that I forgot her b'day on Saturday. My head is all over the place right now, I've never forgotton it before, I feel so bad.

[tojaz]

Sorry I stopped posting, friend just called. I feel terrible I just realised whilst talking to her that I forgot her b'day on Saturday. My head is all over the place right now, I've never forgotton it before, I feel so bad.

Don't feel bad, I'm sure she understands.

[LisaUk]

Thanks Tojaz.

[LisaUk]

How long am I going to feel like this? I don't want to feel depressed any longer. I just keep thinking, was I really that bad? Did he really have to just dump me? I can't see why he wouldn't try and work things out with me, I was willing, hell, I didn't even know he was unhappy. I asked him after he left why he didn't want to try, he said "well, I just felt it was too much of a mountain to climb". I don't understand this, I know I did some things wrong, we could have worked through it though, I'm not a mind reader, if he had told me he was unhappy then I could have done something about my behaviour, but he didn't. Sorry, just rambling I guess, I know there are no answers to these questions. My head says move forward with your life, so why can't I?

[tojaz]

Give it time Lisa! I came to a very painful revelation yesterday that I'm going to put in my thread. Reread yor post, your still blaming yourself, yet he is the one that left. You did it right, he ran! Remember that, it isn't you. You are a loving and caring person who tried to save it, saw the value in your relationship. You deserve to be with someone who feels the same way, unfortunately he dosen't anymore. You don't miss him, you miss the memory of what he was. That person is gone. Don't get yourself all "CREAM Crackered" over this!!

TOJAZ