Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[MissConduct]

Refer to my comment about core values. If he enjoyed the atmosphere, enough to want to go to the peeler bar on a regular basis, then he wouldn't be sharing my core values, now would he? With this in mind, I wouldn't be with him.

 

You have to understand that most of his friends are family men. They don't hit peeler bars or get piss drunk with the boys, on a regular basis. A boys night out pretty much consists of a poker game at someone's house or going to a hockey or football game.

 

Beyond that, we ALL get together, men and their SOs. It's always a good time.

 

He goes out every Friday night with his partners, where they dine at the same restaurant. They have standing reservations there.

Watching a bit of porn is one thing. NEEDING it, is something else. If he needed it, at the expense of the relationship where our sex life was suffering from it, he can go NEED it by himself.

 

For that matter, why would you stay with someone who's into porn, when it bothers you?

 

 

Cool then we are saying the exact same thing. If you share the same core values in which there is no room for the "going from time to time" it does not apply. So it's not so cut and dry as "you either trust him or you don't" I trust my man because we are on the same page, there is no surprise "oh friday after work we are going to the peelers don't wait up" Therefore it's easy to trust someone who doesn't put you in a position to question his core values.

 

My guy and I do much of the same drinks with friends from time to time on our own or dinners, no peelers thank you very much!

[MissConduct]

I was open - I said my only issue was with dishonesty and lap dances. He said that was fine, he didn't go often and never had dances. Then, he lied and had dances. WTF?

 

Personally, I think that he liked to have this secret thing going on, that I didn't know about, as it made it more forbidden, which I am beginning to think is the whole point.

 

Anyway, it fu#ked up our relationship, from my point of view. We're still together, he seems to love me just as much as he ever did, but I don't feel the same way about him. Part of me is held back now, like I'm waiting for the next major blow.

 

No kidding I don't blame you. Can he be trusted after lying to you about that? Why would you stop to think it was innocuous, he lied how innocuous could it be? That's the point. You were cool with it, he had NO reason to lie yet he did anyway. His loss because now his image in your eyes has changed.

Sorry to see that Annie.

[annieo]

Pretty simple, for most men. If you could appear differently to him with regularity, whilst retaining all those great attributes he loves in his mate, he'd be forever yours and yours only at every level. I remember a Star Trek episode where a changeling appeared as any woman the man desired, even though its natural state was a hideous monster. Very instructive.

 

Men (I'd say most, not all) like visual variety. A familiar visual pattern gets to be that, familiar. It doesn't lessen his love and loyalty, rather his visuo-sexual stimulation. IMO, the only way to change that is to change the wiring of his brain.

 

OMG I remember saying to him, during the fallout, that I can only be ME. Even with the ocassional dress up session, it's still JUST ME. Do you know how hurtful, how hopeless this made me feel. Just me, just me, not enough, not enough.

[Trialbyfire]

Cool then we are saying the exact same thing. If you share the same core values in which there is no room for the "going from time to time" it does not apply. So it's not so cut and dry as "you either trust him or you don't" I trust my man because we are on the same page, there is no surprise "oh friday after work we are going to the peelers don't wait up" Therefore it's easy to trust someone who doesn't put you in a position to question his core values.

 

My guy and I do much of the same drinks with friends from time to time on our own or dinners, no peelers thank you very much!

This thread is so long, you probably missed my original comments on the matter. I guess I assumed you had read them.

 

I agree it's not so cut and dried, as trusting him or not, if the foundations aren't originally built on similar core values and trustworthy actions. But...the question to ask women who are with men they don't trust, is why are they with them? Life really is too short for that.

[annieo]

We fumble along. Sorry that it isn't what it was. I am beginning to realize how completely off topic and personal this is, so I'll shut up now.

 

I agree with someone's post who said that this is not the fault of sc, it's just another relationship disaster. Not the fault of strippers or clubs, but perhaps the attitude of entitlement that some men have is not exactly conducive to happy healthy relationships with women. But that's just my 2 cents.

[Sam Spade]

One obvious thing that got missed here is that porn or no porn - most guys masturbate on a regular basis, even while in a relationship. So, the availability of porn basically doesn't change almost anything, just gives you something more to "work" with, in way of visual stimulation .

 

With strip clubs, another point that got missed is that vagua sexual stimulation is a very small portion of the draw. Most men I know periodically get SICK of being law-abiding citizens that show up on time at work and for dinner. Every guy I know to some extent has a wild mother****er inside of them that rather would go beat their opponents up, kill their own food, booze it up, and go through a lot of meaningless and dangerous sex and other dangerous activities. None of us do it, of course, because we know better. So a strip club is a pretty innoquous way to stage a minor insurgency against the soul crushing family-work routine. Even if it is once in a lifetime. I haven't been in a strip club in 5 years and have no particular urge to go. But if the mood strikes me and the context is approrpiate - I will go, and all the judgement from the insecure, prissy, controlling, quilt-ridden and frigid anglo-saxon girlies won't stop me .

[Trialbyfire]

We fumble along. Sorry that it isn't what it was. I am beginning to realize how completely off topic and personal this is, so I'll shut up now.

 

I agree with someone's post who said that this is not the fault of sc, it's just another relationship disaster. Not the fault of strippers or clubs, but perhaps the attitude of entitlement that some men have is not exactly conducive to happy healthy relationships with women. But that's just my 2 cents.

While I admit that some of the responses from the guys have been pretty lame within this thread, I also have to take issue with your comment.

 

The attitude of entitlement is the guys making a personal choice to put their wants before the relationship. Since that's the case, why are women putting up with it and staying in these kinds of relationships? The issue is two-fold, where you have the perpetrator, as defined by women, and the enabler, who are the women themselves.

[annieo]

This thread is so long, you probably missed my original comments on the matter. I guess I assumed you had read them.

 

I agree it's not so cut and dried, as trusting him or not, if the foundations aren't originally built on similar core values and trustworthy actions. But...the question to ask women who are with men they don't trust, is why are they with them? Life really is too short for that.

 

Second marriage, children (from first) have already been through hellish divorce. H/step dad is basically a good guy, funny, handy around the house, has a strong relationship with my kids, financial reasons (like, I'll end up losing this house that I have worked so long and hard to get after dissolution of marriage number one - can't afford it on my own income).

 

When I married him, when I bought a house with him, I trusted him. Now that I'm in neck deep, I don't. I'm too old, too in debt, have too many people involved, to be idealistic. I can't afford it right now.

[Trialbyfire]

Second marriage, children (from first) have already been through hellish divorce. H/step dad is basically a good guy, funny, handy around the house, has a strong relationship with my kids, financial reasons (like, I'll end up losing this house that I have worked so long and hard to get after dissolution of marriage number one - can't afford it on my own income).

 

When I married him, when I bought a house with him, I trusted him. Now that I'm in neck deep, I don't. I'm too old, too in debt, have too many people involved, to be idealistic. I can't afford it right now.

How much longer before your children reach 18?

[annieo]

One obvious thing that got missed here is that porn or no porn - most guys masturbate on a regular basis, even while in a relationship. So, the availability of porn basically doesn't change almost anything, just gives you something more to "work" with, in way of visual stimulation .

 

With strip clubs, another point that got missed is that vagua sexual stimulation is a very small portion of the draw. Most men I know periodically get SICK of being law-abiding citizens that show up on time at work and for dinner. Every guy I know to some extent has a wild mother****er inside of them that rather would go beat their opponents up, kill their own food, booze it up, and go through a lot of meaningless and dangerous sex and other dangerous activities. None of us do it, of course, because we know better. So a strip club is a pretty innoquous way to stage a minor insurgency against the soul crushing family-work routine. Even if it is once in a lifetime. I haven't been in a strip club in 5 years and have no particular urge to go. But if the mood strikes me and the context is approrpiate - I will go, and all the judgement from the insecure, prissy, controlling, quilt-ridden and frigid anglo-saxon girlies won't stop me .

 

Newsflash - nice, normal women masturbate, too. Some of us, pretty often (read - daily) Not going to hurt anyone, so go ahead.

 

Newsflash - nice, normal women sometimes have fantasies of cutting loose. Being bad. Going off somewhere, without the h and kids, and being the girl/woman they used to be, and kissing some random stranger in a bar.

Some actually do, some don't, because they know that they will hurt somebody they love. It's called self-control, foresight ... love.

[annieo]

How much longer before your children reach 18?

 

6 years, although I still worry about the effect it would have on them.

[Jake Barnes]

Strippers come in all varieties: blondes, brunettes, redheads; girls in leather, girls in white, faux-nurses, faux-schoolgirls; quiet girls, shy girls, drunk girls, airheads, alcoholics, cokeheads; girls who seem smart.

 

It's dumb to pigeon-hole them all into the ghetto trashy semi-hot cliche.

 

Which means that even if you're not the kind of guy who "goes" to strip clubs, even if you think they're funny and kind-of nasty, and you're only there cause it's a night out with the boys and no woman can control you... you will probably find a girl that you like. Even if you weren't looking.

 

And once you're in that corner alone with her on your lap, your hands around her tiny, naked waist... her hair in your face, her smell intoxicating you as much as the alcohol that's just started to kick in... it's not hard for things to get out of control. To lines to be crossed.

 

From my experience... lap dances always go way too far.

 

Granted, some women are fine with their bf dry-humping a naked girl he spent the whole evening talking to in a dark corner to the pulse of loud music.

 

But most aren't.

 

And it's delusional to think that he won't, once he is there. I have rarely seen a man come to a club and get away without buying a lapdance.

 

To each his own, though, I guess.

I used to go to stripclubs a lot and pretty rarely got lapdances, but it still wouldnt be appropriate in the context of a relationship

[MissConduct]

This thread is so long, you probably missed my original comments on the matter. I guess I assumed you had read them.

 

I agree it's not so cut and dried, as trusting him or not, if the foundations aren't originally built on similar core values and trustworthy actions. But...the question to ask women who are with men they don't trust, is why are they with them? Life really is too short for that.

 

 

Yes I did miss your earlier posts sorry, I was more responding to the last few. I agree with everything you said.

 

The problem I am thinking here is when for some women they come to find these things out about their men later in the relationship so it must be harder to deal with when you go in thinking they are a certain way and then the lies come out, as in Annie's situation for example. So even someone like her who trusted him now has good reason not to trust him in that respect.

 

It's a touchy subject for women (or evidently some women) I should say, that isn't some sort of feminist reich "sanction" like some guys trivialize it to be. I personally have no desire to control and put my foot down on a man. It is about the deeper issues it implies when you need to be focusing on his seemingly "harmless needs" incorporating that kind of outing to interfere in the relationship. Inevitably, at least in my case, it would interfere no matter how much I trust him because it is disrespectful to me and my needs and how I view him. Just as I would not put him in a position to feel compromised by some kind of weird outing that does not sit well with him. It's a matter of respect for each other really.

 

My ex had to go to Vegas once a year with his business partners and it was three men in Vegas for a week. I mean at some point I suppose maybe he went, he said he didn't because practically every night we were on the phone most the time, his choice to call me and possibly for him to see what I was about every night )after he would tretreat from his dinners but I trusted him implicitly. By the third night I was the one pushing him to go out and enjoy his nights and I meant it! But he wanted to call and talk to me and share his days with me on the phone instead. He just had this uncanny way of knowing how to reach out to me when he was not present to make sure we were in touch and present in each others minds even if not in person. That was one of his many great qualities, the idea that we had this unspoken understanding that no matter where we were, we were "with" each other. Trust like that is nurtured. I don't know if it's right or wrong but it worked for us.

 

Going off to see strippers from time to time only adds unecessary questions in a relationship, that is not my idea of nurturing trust.

[annieo]

Yes I did miss your earlier posts sorry, I was more responding to the last few. I agree with everything you said.

 

The problem I am thinking here is when for some women they come to find these things out about their men later in the relationship so it must be harder to deal with when you go in thinking they are a certain way and then the lies come out, as in Annie's situation for example. So even someone like her who trusted him now has good reason not to trust him in that respect.

 

It's a touchy subject for women (or evidently some women) I should say, that isn't some sort of feminist reich "sanction" like some guys trivialize it to be. I personally have no desire to control and put my foot down on a man. It is about the deeper issues it implies when you need to be focusing on his seemingly "harmless needs" incorporating that kind of outing to interfere in the relationship. Inevitably, at least in my case, it would interfere no matter how much I trust him because it is disrespectful to me and my needs and how I view him. Just as I would not put him in a position to feel compromised by some kind of weird outing that does not sit well with him. It's a matter of respect for each other really.

 

My ex had to go to Vegas once a year with his business partners and it was three men in Vegas for a week. I mean at some point I suppose maybe he went, he said he didn't because practically every night we were on the phone most the time, his choice to call me and possibly for him to see what I was about every night )after he would tretreat from his dinners but I trusted him implicitly. By the third night I was the one pushing him to go out and enjoy his nights and I meant it! But he wanted to call and talk to me and share his days with me on the phone instead. He just had this uncanny way of knowing how to reach out to me when he was not present to make sure we were in touch and present in each others minds even if not in person. That was one of his many great qualities, the idea that we had this unspoken understanding that no matter where we were, we were "with" each other. Trust like that is nurtured. I don't know if it's right or wrong but it worked for us.

 

Going off to see strippers from time to time only adds unecessary questions in a relationship, that is not my idea of nurturing trust.

 

What you have, that's what I thought I had. And I am glad for you - your h sounds like a peach

I also strongly approve of your avatar - saw them in '82 - love the clash.

[Trialbyfire]

While annieo and others like her are in no position to change their lot in life, women who are starting out, need to consider that it's very possible they might need to raise children on their own, so get yourself into a financially secure position previous to having them.

 

In a perfect world, getting financially secure pre-marriage, then signing mutual prenups, would be the best way to ensure you're never trapped into accepting crappy behaviour, like lying, cheating or abuse.

[MissConduct]

With strip clubs, another point that got missed is that vagua sexual stimulation is a very small portion of the draw. Most men I know periodically get SICK of being law-abiding citizens that show up on time at work and for dinner. Every guy I know to some extent has a wild mother****er inside of them that rather would go beat their opponents up, kill their own food, booze it up, and go through a lot of meaningless and dangerous sex and other dangerous activities. None of us do it, of course, because we know better. So a strip club is a pretty innoquous way to stage a minor insurgency against the soul crushing family-work routine. Even if it is once in a lifetime. I haven't been in a strip club in 5 years and have no particular urge to go. But if the mood strikes me and the context is approrpiate - I will go, and all the judgement from the insecure, prissy, controlling, quilt-ridden and frigid anglo-saxon girlies won't stop me

 

:lmao::lmao:

Oooooh knock yourself out Charles Manson in a sheep's costume.

 

Good to know you see family life as a "soul crushing" experience.

 

It's funny to hear a comment like that from a white collar middle class machine "part", when if we were to talk to a villager from Africa who is sent in to work in the treacherous conditions of a gold mine, going for days without food or a drop or water and risking his life for his family, I bet his soul is lifted by the mere though of when he will get to see his them next.

 

Sam spade that comment was completely

[MissConduct]

What you have, that's what I thought I had. And I am glad for you - your h sounds like a peach

I also strongly approve of your avatar - saw them in '82 - love the clash.

 

It's what I had with my ex. What I have with my current bo is too early to tell, but so far we are on the same page on a lot of things and I see a good path ahead.

 

I was too young to see them in 82 Lucky!!! Would have given anything to see them live.

[spiracles]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]i went to a strip club with a girl before. she got hammered, received a couple of lap dances, and danced on stage. i played pool. it was very smoky in there. but the point i seem to be getting from this thread (sorry i skipped over a few of the ad homs) is that insecure people have problems with their mates indulging in porn/going to a strip club (which is not to say that their insecurity is not well founded), and said mates are ***es for disregarding the feelings of their SO. and yeah, there were some attractive girls working there, but more than anything, i just felt sorry for them.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[Sam Spade]

:lmao::lmao:

Oooooh knock yourself out Charles Manson in a sheep's costume.

 

Good to know you see family life as a "soul crushing" experience.

 

It's funny to hear a comment like that from a white collar middle class machine "part", when if we were to talk to a villager from Africa who is sent in to work in the treacherous conditions of a gold mine, going for days without food or a drop or water and risking his life for his family, I bet his soul is lifted by the mere though of when he will get to see his them next.

 

Sam spade that comment was completely

 

Wiseguy Sam tells it like it is. You may not like it, but guys have a happy place where their inner ******* roams free from you decorating ideas and birthday party guest lists. Whether it is strip clubs, martial arts, football & beer, or cryptic hobbies really doesn't matter - it's dependent on mood and context, but the purpose is largely the same.

 

Obviously you haven't hung out enough with married people with families. Even the most loving and together parents I've seen have felt at times like they're about to throw the crying baby out of the window; not my words too. While I look forward to having a family, I know that there will be moments when I'll wish the whole thing never happened to get in the way of my life-long dream of being a mail pilot (dabbling in the drug trade on the side) in South America .

[MissConduct]

@Sam Spade yeah yeah we get it, while your wife is breast feeding your second baby and trying to put your first child to bed you will be off motorboating some peeler at a tittie bar because life is just too much pressure for YOU!

 

Don't worry the message is loud and clear.

[Sam Spade]

@Sam Spade yeah yeah we get it, while your wife is breast feeding your second baby and trying to put your first child to bed you will be off motorboating some peeler at a tittie bar because life is just too much pressure for YOU!

 

Don't worry the message is loud and clear.

 

Not possible to hear loud and clear with head up azz .

[MissConduct]

Not possible to hear loud and clear with head up azz .

 

Gonna have to take your word on that one.

[IrishCarBomb]

Not possible to hear loud and clear with head up azz .

 

Dang!! I thought we'd make it to 200 posts before blatant name calling happened.

[Jersey Shortie]

Well I have alot to say because this topic is so frustrating and the lack of concern, caring or desire men have to work with their women on these issues instead of just use the old stand by "well I am a man", as a good enough reasons to do anything you want.

 

 

IrishCarBomb

Maybe I'll start a new thread about the irony that a textual medium like the intenet has actually decreased literacy, instead of improving it.

 

Please do IrishCarBomb.

 

MrDream

JerseyShortie battles statements with what the statement didn't say. If I'm talking apples, she'll come through and hit me with oranges, bananas, pineapples, and whatever else from the fruit category she can grab.

 

Its hilarious when I read it, but kind of sad to. All in all I just battle ridiculousness with equally ridiculous content, or I just ignore it. I usually do the latter.

 

While the reference to the fruit made me laugh Mr. Dream, you often talk a big game but it's nothing more the posturing with no real foundation of truth behind it. And when you can't logically debate things you start throwing down 12 year old comments like "Sit down" or "deuces". You ignore it? Is that why you mention me in many of your posts?

 

 

Popey

That aside, in general; if you suggest that strip clubs are ok, usually the reasoning is that it is just entertainment, and non-threatening b/c the men are only there to look, and not really connect with the women. IMO, this means, the women are being dehumamnized... just objects. And we have substantial history to show the detrimental psychological effects of any dehumamnization.

 

The assertion that it's not a threat is usually made by men that are the situation of going to a female strip clubs. Men and women naturally protray different things as threats. I hope we can all agree on that. Not not agree means that you don't really want women to be women and men to be men.

 

Men do not worry about some gay grease monkey gyrating in a g-string because that is not even close to how the majority of women are turned on. Every man understands this even if they don't admit it. Now ask most men how they would feel about their women dancing nearly naked getting attention from tons of men and the tables turn. It's easy to understand why. It's a bigger threat to a man if his woman makes herself sexually attractive to other men and it's a bigger threat to a woman if her man seuxally respondes to other women, even if it's just looking on both ends.

 

Now we all know the truth of what I speak in our heads. For men to admit the truth about the differences in sexuality of men and women, it would take away from the foundation the men that defend strip clubs try to base their explanations on. A woman in a g-string gyrating very much feeds into a man's desires and sexual nature. A man dancing in a g-string gyrating around does not. So any man that says it's not a threat is purposely ignoring a woman's nature. A man saying he is okay with a woman going to watch other men dance in g-strings is okay with it because this is not a basic biological threat to him. It amazes me the amount of men on this thread that rather make their SO question him, put her at a disadvantage, disrespect her, and have the nerve to call her insecure as if she shouldn't be when he is doing all the things that naturally are questionable and going to put her in the disadvantage in the relationship. Perhaps men don't care about that thought because the bigger short-term satisfaction is more important to many men that truly committing to their SO and respecting her?

 

 

MrDream:

Point is, your honest and faithful man wouldn't let it get so far as him being in a dark corner with some stripper all over him, to be honest, he probably wouldn't let her touch him. Give me a break. If that were the case then his lack of self control isn't due to where he's at, its due to him....and his lack of self control lol. He could end up with a broad all over him anywhere.

 

Why is that most men boarder on bragging how sexual they are and when a woman makes a logical conclusion about their sexual nature, men back track and make statements that give way to the previous statements of how sexual a man is? Come off it. No one is saying that all men lack self control. But it makes no logical sense to put yourself in a situation with other women and only then lay claim to great amounts of self control. Why put yourself in the situation to begin with? Why put the woman you care for in that situation? Why make her struggle with it? Could it be a power trip for men? You get to go out, have fun with other women and go home to the little woman waiting for you? I think this strip club arguments has more to do with men's insecurity then womens. All the men out there that need outside validation of their sexuality. That reeks of insecurity. All the men defending a trip to a strip club...insecurity.

 

MrDream:

In a dark corner? With a stripper gyrating all over him? These scenarios sound like a common phobia among women the more and more its repeated on this board.

 

Please attempt to be somewhat logical. Not only do you have no sympathy to women dealing with this issue. Now you are going to inanly say that women shouldn't even have questions about what goes on or wonder what their man is doing when he makes the adult choice to go. Guess what? At strip clubs.. strippers gyrate over men. They are naked attractive women in most cases. Last time I checked heterosexual men didn't even need a chick to be naked to be thinking about her sexually. They wouldn't make any money if only single men were getting lap dances. But godforbid you admit the reality of that. Funnily enough, the fact that you refuse to be completely logical about it says alot about your insecurity.

 

You’reasin

If a woman doesn't want her man going to strip clubs and looking at porn, all she has to do is keep him coming home and staying - ladies, this isn't a challenge

 

And what will he be doing for her to make her feel like putting in that effort? I challenge you to answer that.

 

 

Annieo

So I'm sorry, but you're wrong. My man acted like a greedy child who never though he's get caught. We had stupid fun in and out of bed, had loving vanilla sex as well as dirty red and purple sex, and he still turned around betrayed me, lied to me.

 

Explain that to me, oh wise men of LS, because I don't get it. BTW (not that it should matter) I'm pretty, slim and get come on vibes/looks/comments on a regular basis (which, ironically, make my h jealous) - so he didn't go to the peeler because I'm unattractive.

 

Most of the men around here don't care about that Annieo. They don't care about the women out there that have to face these issues. Or making their own girlfriends and wives face them. They, just like your fellow, just care about being able to go to strip clubs, look at porn and ahve a real woman that loves him without having to worry about her own personal female needs.

 

MrDream:

To be honest its your man's fault all of that **** happened. The strip club has zero to do with it. Don't blame strippers and whatever else you can to lessen the fact that your man is the problem.

 

We are in agreement. No woman here is blaming the strippers. I think most take issue with the opinions and actions of the man in their life they care for that have a committed SO.

 

 

Carhill

Pretty simple, for most men. If you could appear differently to him with regularity, whilst retaining all those great attributes he loves in his mate, he'd be forever yours and yours only at every level....

 

Men (I'd say most, not all) like visual variety. A familiar visual pattern gets to be that, familiar. It doesn't lessen his love and loyalty, rather his visuo-sexual stimulation. IMO, the only way to change that is to change the wiring of his brain.

 

So men get to feed themselves on all the outside stimulation of other women they want and women are suppose to ignore their own wiring of their brains? The wiring that wants them to be special, loved and cared for and thought to be sexy and beautiful by one man. That's is ALL we ask. Not very much. We are asking x amount of men to validate us.

 

And when the man we are with can't even do that, and rather validate other women, it sends a big message. It seems that it's better to be the man's fantasy then the reality. Women can't win no matter what they do. He will always want more more more..visual stimuation of other women. Why even try to please him? He certainly doesn't want to try and please his woman in teh female ways she needs? Funny how you say that if women do this, only then will men do that. What do men do in return? What effort are men putting into it? Doesn't seem like you, or other men expect yourself to put any effort into it at all. Oh but you all are "visual" and need more "visual stimulation" no matter what your partner needs. She's not want is is important. YOU are what's important. I am sorry but you speak of loyatly and at the same time a man's desire for variety. Huge contradiction don't you think ? Perhaps the truth is most men just can't be loyal to the women that love them. Sounds to me like men are the insecure ones.

 

 

Annieo

OMG I remember saying to him, during the fallout, that I can only be ME. Even with the ocassional dress up session, it's still JUST ME. Do you know how hurtful, how hopeless this made me feel. Just me, just me, not enough, not enough.

 

Message is, that a woman, there is no point in even trying with men because they don't really give us much in return for our efforts expect to seek out more titliating and exciting, fresher, newer women.

 

Sam Spade

Most men I know periodically get SICK of being law-abiding citizens that show up on time at work and for dinner. Every guy I know to some extent has a wild mother****er inside of them that rather would go beat their opponents up, kill their own food, booze it up, and go through a lot of meaningless and dangerous sex and other dangerous activities. None of us do it, of course, because we know better. So a strip club is a pretty innoquous way to stage a minor insurgency against the soul crushing family-work routine.

 

Do you think the famil-work routine enlivens women and makes them feel electrified any more then it makes you? You want to talk about soul crushing, lets talk about soul crushing. Knowing that your man needs to validate himself to feel like a *man* by going to look at other women or looking through porn, that he can't get those feelings from you, as a woman, is soul crushing to our own feminity. While you might want to engage in dangerous sexual or adventerous activities. Women want that to. We want to feel wildly beautiful, sexual and cherished. Does that mean we should go out and seek that out from other men because of the "soul crushing family-work routine? Seriously, all you seem to want to consider is your needs with very little concern to women. Talk about soul crushing. But it doesn't matter if a woman's soul gets crushed right?

 

 

Even if it is once in a lifetime. I haven't been in a strip club in 5 years and have no particular urge to go. But if the mood strikes me and the context is approrpiate - I will go, and all the judgement from the insecure, prissy, controlling, quilt-ridden and frigid anglo-saxon girlies won't stop me .

 

I think it's a shame you feel the need to demean women for struggle with this issue. Calling them names like frigid and controlling instead of trying to understand how these things can make a woman feel shackled in her own way just like your work/family life might make you feel shackled. Right above you said that strip clubs do possess something that make you feel like a *man*. you forget that your woman wants to be able to do that for you. Does that make her frigid? wrong? bad? No. It makes her a woman. When your man goes off seeking thrills from other women, thrills that you hope he can get from you, it is a threat. And it's hurtful. And it's doesn't make a woman ANY of the things you tried to shame women into being. That above comment you made is rather disgraceful for women and goes a long way from trying to understand them and your needs and demanding that your needs override anything they might need.

[Jersey Shortie]

But hey guys..keep mocking women and belitting them for their natural concerns. Keep telling them how awful they are and how their needs as a woman aren't 1/10th as important as a man's needs. that's the overall message.. Men are mor important..their needs more important..women are nothing..their needs don't matter and if a woman has needs..she is jsut insecure and an evil person right? It's not so much the disagreeing of the topic that bothers me but the lack of trying to see where women are coming from and trying to shame women for natural concerns.

 

It's not you as the man that is in more vunerable spot. It's all the ladies out there that have to sit home while her man goes off to get sexual thrills from other women, even if he is *just* looking. You're not the one on the sidelines. It's your woman who is suppsoe to ignore her own needs so that you can look at some fresh t&A. And she is suppose to be so confident in the light of what you are picking to do?

 

Holy crap, coul dyou cut women some slack?

 

Despite being in the position of power in the situation guys, you still don't really seem to care about really understanding women or helping them. Just railroading right over them because your a man and obviously your needs are worth more then hers right?