AlektraClementine Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I didn't say purely emotional. I said "more emotionally stimulated'. I'll be the first to admit that I like the way men are "designed" and I love to look at them. But, seeing a naked man is not going to tempt me into an affair like an emotional connection would. That's all I'm saying. If I liked the way vaginas looked, I'd be a lesbian. Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 This is actually why I feel some pity for the male gender. Yes we have lived a long time in a patriarchal society, but it doesn't do the male gender any favors either. It tells them they cannot control themselves, they need a woman to hold their life together for them or else they be the lesser man. Oh, and don't you dare cry about it buster! Then the unrealistic standards a woman must attain for them to pair up with her else it also be a measure of their own respectability........its a mess for them too sometimes Jersey.Do you think that idea that the standards for women being higher and still attainable isn't an implication that we might not be the weaker sex has never crossed the their subconscious? Of course it has! I agree that it doesn't do the male gender any favors. A look up to men that have strength of character and while, like women, are able to use self control out of respect for themselves and their partners. It's hard to live in a culture that ultimately feeds you the bs that you should act on every little whim of fancy and if you can't, you should seek it out in more descretionary practices. I disagree though that the standards that women must meet to be attractive to men make men feel weaker as men. Jersey - the flaw I see in your posts is that you refuse to acknowledge individual relationship guidelines and standards. You set your standards and everyone else can set theirs. Where did I refuse to acknoweldge individual relationships? Was that before or after you made your own generalations about how men and women are hardwired and emotional and sexual limits? Link to post Share on other sites
AlektraClementine Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Where did I refuse to acknoweldge individual relationships? Was that before or after you made your own generalations about how men and women are hardwired and emotional and sexual limits? Well, you seem to argue that any man who goes into a strip club is a bad man without any self control. And any women who's OK with that is kidding themselves. Am I wrong? Do you not feel that way? Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well, you seem to argue that any man who goes into a strip club is a bad man without any self control. And any women who's OK with that is kidding themselves. Am I wrong? Do you not feel that way? Where did I argue that men that went into strip clubs were "bad men"? When ...lack of self control yes. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Wake up! Men don't go to strip clubs because their women don't cater to their sexual needs they go for variety. You can become a naked controtionist for him and pull doves out of your ear and if he needs variety he's seen you naked a million times already it doesn't matter what you do he wants something new. If you're creative enough, you can keep things rolling in the bedroom Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Anybody who has seen women at a male strip club knows that they are just as raunchy and rowdy as men are. This business that women are purely emotional when it comes to sex is a bunch of crap. Exactly. Some argue that women aren't as animalistic as men and its usually feminist types. Link to post Share on other sites
AlektraClementine Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Re: "Bad Men". Not trying to put words into your mouth. So let me ask you this: Do you think that men who go to strip clubs are "Good Men"? I'm simply trying to impress upon you that your opinion, while completely valid and enforceable within the context of your own personal relationship, is not necessarily valid and true in the context of another woman's relationship. For instance, if my boyfriend went to a strip club...I'd feel ok about it. If he cheated, I'd leave him. Where you and I differ is that I think your opinion is no less substantial than my own. Because I'm not in your relationship. But I'd wager, that you (again correct me if I'm wrong) think my ease about my guy going to a strip club is ludicrous. I don't play the semantics game very well...and I paraphrase a lot. So feel free to correct me when I misrepresent you. I certainly don't want to do that because it only adds to the confusion of an argument. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 So guys (especially the ones who think strip clubs are harmless fun) - Would you consider your woman getting her "emotional variety" from platonic dating harmless? My man sure wouldn't!!! see I disagree with this - I don't think that when guys in relationships go to strip clubs that it's usually for "physical variety" in most cases - it's more like just a means to "act out and be a guy" - and women do the equivalent of this ALL THE TIME. I can't tell you how many times I've struck up a conversation with some girl at the bar and had them not mention their boyfriend until well past the point where it was fairly obvious that I at least had the possibility of getting a phone number or something in mind. not that women should have to wear an "I'm taken" sign or anything or that they can't just make some convo, but it was quite apparent in these situations that they were getting some personal enjoyment out of it. sometimes people just like to do stuff for no other reason than to assert their freedom to themselves. I know that my GF has done this on occasion if she's "out with the girls", and I really don't care - it doesn't threaten me - i mean what kind of relationships are you people in that you think that a guy's going to cheat at the first sign of t*ts or a girl's going to cheat at the first sign of attention? Matter of fact, I posted a thread recently regarding my attraction for another man. I've since had to cut that friendship completely off out of respect for my relationship. Tempted? Yes. Not sexually, but emotionally. See but in your case this was not some isolated incident where it was like "I talked to some guy on the bus for a half hour, he told me I was cute and it made me feel fuzzy inside" - from what you had said in your thread, you were seeing this guy regularly and flirting and even fantasizing about him - that's not equivalent to going to a strip club once, that's equivalent to fantasizing or communicating with a stripper outside of the strip club, or going there all of the time. and yes, that is certainly a problem from either side of the coin! Link to post Share on other sites
AlektraClementine Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Point taken. To be more clear, I was referring to the more frequent strip club visitor. The guy who goes frequently because he says it's natural to seek variety. I'd like to know from those guys if they'd be ok with their girl seeking "emotional variety" on a frequent basis. Thank you for answering my question though. You make some excellent points. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 @you're asian I'm a sexual being and a creative on at that, my abilities in the bedroom don't infringe on the need a partner might have for variety. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard, unless of course you are a frigid bitch who withholds sex. I like sex too much to withhold it, call me selfish! I bet you also think that people who are having varied sex prevent cheating. :laugh: I wish it was that simple, it simply isn't. Having frequent or varied sex, making a better sex life definitely lowers one's desire to cheat - atleast in a monogamous relationship, where both persons know they want each other and are committed. If you're just dating or are in a relationship that is already dry - lol that's another story..... one thing is for certain. you are very passionate about this issue. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 You sound really young and naive. I wonder what you will do when your wife has had a few stitches down there after healing from giving birth to your children and can't have sex for you for extended periods of time. I guess you are the typical type of guy who will be tempted to cheat the minute your selfish needs are being met like some baby who cries for food because he can't express his needs yet. . You sound like you've got overpacked baggage. You don't have to wonder what I'll do - I'll cross that bridge when I find it and frankly, its none of your business Link to post Share on other sites
spookie Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm sure there are tons of different types of strippers, but they all have one constant: their attention is conditional on being paid. I guess I'm strange in this regard; I just can never ignore "the elephant in the room" about strip clubs. I don't even know if that's true. Link to post Share on other sites
mr.dream merchant Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't think a woman leading a guy on for attention even though she has a boyfriend is the equivalent of a guy going to a strip club. While leading a guy on is solely for one purpose, the attention, a strip club could be for many purposes, so that comparison is too conditional. A guy could be at a strip club to for the attention, he could be at a strip club for sex, he could be at a strip club just to look at some tits and ass, and/or he could be at a strip for a gathering with the boys. There's many different purposes for a strip club while leading someone of the opposite sex on when you have a SO is only for one thing, and that's the attention. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't think a woman leading a guy on for attention even though she has a boyfriend is the equivalent of a guy going to a strip club. While leading a guy on is solely for one purpose, the attention, a strip club could be for many purposes, so that comparison is too conditional. A guy could be at a strip club to for the attention, he could be at a strip club for sex, he could be at a strip club just to look at some tits and ass, and/or he could be at a strip for a gathering with the boys. There's many different purposes for a strip club while leading someone of the opposite sex on when you have a SO is only for one thing, and that's the attention. None of your reasons for being at a strip club exclude the others so really they could all be the one reason(s). How is walking into a room leading someone on while having a BF? Is it a woman's fault if men react to their presence? That isn't the same thing as letting someone pursue you. You don't have to tell a guy you're available or not for them to show interest. You can even tell them you are NOT interested and they still might show interest. This is the woman's fault? Link to post Share on other sites
normal Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Wow, talk about getting way too huffed up over this. Yes, our current boundary is set at no strip clubs, that doesn't mean it will never change... IF he does go to a strip club some day (and I'm sure he will!) I'm not going to sit around and cry about it. It's a waste of time, and as it stands my life is too short to worry about things so trivial. The only way I'd ever get upset is if it turned into some sort of addiction. And I doubt it would. There will always be hot girls taking off their clothes whether it's in a movie, on a stage or on his computer. There will even be hot girls with their clothes ON that might turn him on. Fine by me, until he actually acts on it and gives me a reason to not trust his judgment. He'll have access to naked women no matter what, and I know that if I WERE to try and control everything he did and saw it would only ruin my relationship, probe him to become more dishonest and untrustworthy. I am perfectly content knowing that I'm not the hottest girl in the world, and I have nothing to be insecure about in comparison to a stripper or porn star. I have a great career, I am attractive, I'm well-educated, cultured and I'm in a VERY loving, honest and loyal relationship with someone that I am madly in love with. So why should I care what he does, who or what he looks at? He's always going to get in bed with me when all is said and done. He loves me, he doesn't love strippers or pornstars. I'm NOT going to apologize for not being some insecure, jealous, whiny and controlling girlfriend. Link to post Share on other sites
normal Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 If you don't care then why set boundaries? I don't get that. Why are you even arguing? We made that agreement when we FIRST started dating, forever ago. Anyway, in case you missed the entire point of almost all of my posts: JEALOUSY IS A WASTE OF TIME AND DOES NOTHING POSITIVE FOR RELATIONSHIPS. Is THAT what you're arguing with? Link to post Share on other sites
normal Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Calm down, I am trying to understand your reasoning. On the one hand you say it doesn't matter and to not get caught in being jealous about that but on the other you say that in your relationship you have set clear boundaries that there will be no clubs. So what is the point of setting a boundary if you don't care? Why even have a boundary to not go? It's like saying we set boundaries to not date other people but if we do then I won't be jealous about that because it's not the end of the world. Still don't get it. Didn't I just say we set those boundaries at the beginning of our relationship? Who said I'm the one that made that rule or set that boundary? It was originally something he said HE wasn't comfortable with. And I am respecting his wishes by not going. Link to post Share on other sites
mr.dream merchant Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 None of your reasons for being at a strip club exclude the others so really they could all be the one reason(s). How is walking into a room leading someone on while having a BF? Is it a woman's fault if men react to their presence? That isn't the same thing as letting someone pursue you. You don't have to tell a guy you're available or not for them to show interest. You can even tell them you are NOT interested and they still might show interest. This is the woman's fault? What? Is there a major lack of reading comprehension on this board that I don't know about? A guy showing interest in you is one thing. Actively leading someone on is another. I didn't state that a guy showing interest in you is you leading him on. I simply said that being in a strip club is not the equivalent of a female, who craves attention, leading a guy on because there are multiple conditions for which a guy could be at a strip club. It could range from all of those conditions to one condition. A female who's leading a guy on, is just for one thing which is attention. Hopefully that clears things up for you. Link to post Share on other sites
BUENG1 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 No you're right it's not the equivalent of going once. But what about the example I gave comperable to the kind of man who goes from time to time just to escape the daily chores of his mundane lifestyle of family life and work and other "pressures" What about that guy who needs the escape from time to time, what if we were to compare that to the emotional escape a woman needs from time to time just to go out and be talking to a new man on a platonice level, and they are doing nothing wrong other than having a few drinks a few laughs? It doesn't have to be the same guy every time could be different guys. Would you be ok if your woman needed this kind of "escape" from time to time? Could you trust her enough that nothing other than a few drinks and a few laughs would happen on said outing? You just arbitrarily made the comparison, based on your feelings, which are subjective, and you've arbitrarily decided that these two situations are equivalent. The comparison you made between the two events you spoke isn't really based on anything other your feelings of the situation, which are subjective. I could arbitarly decide that the equivalent of someone flirting with some guy one time is the equivalent is your so sleeping with someone and your feelings about that would have no more validity than mine, but the facts are the facts, and actions are actions. What you get out of something you did, isn't really as important as what you did. If hypothetically you have an affair or cheat on your partner and the sex sucks, is it any better than if you enjoyed it? I don't think so. The action in this case is what is important, not what you got out of it, just as it is in your example. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Your future endeavors do not concern me one bit other than to draw perfect examples from them when comparing that to some of my personal theories on this topic. Yet you're still responding when I told you that its NOYB. Link to post Share on other sites
BUENG1 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 @BUNEG....another one who can't answer the question and has to derail the comment on another completely irrelevant tangent, apparently you love the use of the word "arbitrarily" though. If someone were to provide an answer to the question, or ask if the question is not clear, we could actually lead to a good discussion about it. But since no one is really answering the question then we won't. Men relate to sex, women relate to emotion. In both examples we are talking about attention from someone platonic, one in a sexual context due to the nature of the environment one in an emotional one due to the nature of the encounter. The examples are perfectly fitting and parallel, considering what both genders are responsive to and therefore where the threat would come into play. But seeing as you want nitpick about truly "arbitrary" things instead, then never mind. They're not parallel, you just made them and said they were the same. No one is responding to your statement and agreeing with you because what you said doesn't make any sense. The problem isn't everyone else its you. Link to post Share on other sites
missdependant Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The problem isn't everyone else its you. I've just been following this thread lately.. and I second that. Link to post Share on other sites
BUENG1 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You won't answer because you know where that conversation is leading so your non-answer is good enough for me and why I hold strong nothing good comes out of strip joints (for the women in the relationship) no matter how much some men want to brush if off as it's some "good clean safe fun". If it really were just about "oh trust and let it be" men would be just as trusting to let us go out on platonic get-togethers with other men we have never met before when we wanted to go out for a little innocuous attention seeking. It's a good example. You won't answer because you don't have a leg to stand on. End of question. Some of these guys want us to believe the dumbest shet, they must really think women were born yesterday or that we are retarded. If we are supposed to "trust" them going to strip joints they should trust us to be out on platonic dates with other men, after all we can control ourselves too. Being out on dates with other men is fun and harmless and if we promise to only love him, he should be secure enough to realize that going out on platonic dates with other men is just entertainment and a safe way to get variety (as someone else pointed out earlier). You seem to have a strange definition of a question, but anyway, that was your statement and my response was quite clear. Those two actions aren't the same and you haven't given any meaningful justification to why they are. Just because you claim to get the same satisfaction from one action as someone else gets from a different one doesn't make them the same, or comparable or anything else. You won't like any answer that isn't "you are right, these are exactly the same the equivalence of going to the strip club for a man is a woman dating other people". Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I would not expect my wife to be okay with me going on a date with another women. You are comparing apples and oranges. Porn and strip clubs are simply a form of entertainment. The women are putting on a show and it is not real. It's not much different than going to a concert or a broadway play. Some men think it is real but that is their problem. If you have a who man thinks that he has deeper issues. Link to post Share on other sites
flyingtim01 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 It's an interesting thought, that a man visiting a strip club while in a committed relationship is comparable to a woman going on a platonic date with a man, also while in a committed relationship. MissConduct, to answer your question, I wouldn't have a problem with my SO going on a platonic date with a male friend, because I trust her keep to things on a friend level, much the same as she trusts me to keep my hands (and anything else) to myself if I ever went to a strip joint. But thats our relationship, and it works for us. For the record, I don't think that a woman who has a problem with her SO going to a strip club is necessarily controlling. Its just who she is. There are manipulating and controlling personalities out there for sure, on both sides of the gender fence, but you can't just say that because she doesn't want her SO going to a strip club that she has her man 'whipped' and probably doesn't let him watch football on sundays. Thats just silly. Link to post Share on other sites
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