Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[IrishCarBomb]

I found this post made on a forum where an ex stripper turned porn star was posting to let her fans know she was retiring from her porn career.

 

Probably none of my business, but why were you looking at such a site?

 

This is and interesting comment from one of her fans:

 

Do you think a fan on that site is typical of the average guy?

[MissConduct]

That's a fair question and the answer is simple:

 

I wanted to find a place where men spoke candidly about strip joints so I googled for forums that spoke on that. That's what I found. I feel that what men say in a discussion such as this one, given that there are women that could potentially represent the girlfriend or wife reading, they will water down their comments and stick to man code. They give lame answers like "we don't like going because it's fake, we don't get turned on, we don't find it as a sexual experience, lapadances do nothing for me, I could blow a thousand dollars on a lapdance all night and spend all night getting them but I feel nothing and it doesn't get in the way of my relationship. It is just the ol'guys getting together for some manly fun, it's just another "place" to get together with the guys" and the list goes on and on with all the lame excuses you can imagine.

 

 

But the bottom line is that when push come to shove a guy who frequents strip joints is not going to stop when with a woman, out of respect to her he won't even top. He would rather lie to her and do this behind her back than cut it out and all that tells us is that it is NOT all those lame things he claims he is there for, if it truly were like that he could take it or leave it.

 

And yes I don think it is a fair representation because

 

a) the man talking is a man

b) he frequents strip joints

c) I am sure all men have their fave porn starlett whether they will seek out a forum to speak to her or not is irrelvant but that all men have their faves, sure they do. If they could speak to them that is what they would say.

 

The way men think does not vary that much from man to man so save it! If you are at a sex club looking at sex don't tell me you are there for the good food and beer and live entertainment, go to a restaurant with a live band if you want good food, drinks, live entertainment and to catch up with the boys.

 

Porn and strip joints is just an excuse to sit around and objectify women and on top if men get pissed off that women "use them" for money? Well what did you expect to spit on a woman's face and she like it, for FREE?

Pfft!

 

Also I have noticed in porn women always fake orgasms they never come or the men never spend enough real time making them come the important thing is to show the man cumming, if that doesn't tell you the whole industry gears towards DISRESPECTING and make women inferior than you can consider yourself a full fletched misogynist. (you as in the general you)

[IrishCarBomb]

The way men think does not vary that much from man to man so save it!

 

I'm sorry you feel this way.

 

One of the exciting things I found when I was single is the variety in women I can meet. I'd be pretty bored and upset if women didn't vary all that much in how they think... so I suppose I empathize with you. If all men virtually all think alike... the dating pool must feel pretty shallow for women then.

 

I know I can't convince you, but I'll say it to whoever may be lurking and reading this: some guys aren't drawn into the strip club, some guys think differently.

[samspade]

Also I have noticed in porn women always fake orgasms they never come or the men never spend enough real time making them come the important thing is to show the man cumming, if that doesn't tell you the whole industry gears towards DISRESPECTING and make women inferior than you can consider yourself a full fletched misogynist. (you as in the general you)

 

Well, it depends on what kind of porn you are watching. And judging from the men in most porn, the male sex is not exactly exalted, either.

 

Besides, it's porn, not reality. Who cares who actually comes? And you're wrong, at least for me, the important thing is to see the woman, not the man. What the heck?

 

But I won't b.s. you: I go to strip clubs for T&A (and beer with it), and I watch porn because it's fun to watch a girl get ***ked on camera. So what? You don't like it, that's your business.

[MissConduct]

I'm sorry you feel this way.

 

One of the exciting things I found when I was single is the variety in women I can meet. I'd be pretty bored and upset if women didn't vary all that much in how they think... so I suppose I empathize with you. If all men virtually all think alike... the dating pool must feel pretty shallow for women then.

 

I know I can't convince you, but I'll say it to whoever may be lurking and reading this: some guys aren't drawn into the strip club, some guys think differently.

 

No no, I don't think ALL men think like that,. I said all men who frequent strip joints and use excuses.

 

The men who aren't drawn to them don't need excuses to go, they just don't go. If you need a good reason to go, you need to be there. It's that simple to me.

 

Big difference. My guy doesn't go, and I have never in the past had a relationship with a man who needed to go or needed to give me any lame excuse to go. He didn't need that in his life, and I didn't see the point of it either since we were in a committed relationship and so it was a non issue at all. It just never factored into our reality in any shape or form.

 

Trust me I know there are men who don't think like that, I happen to fall in love preciesely with those kinds of men!

 

So you don't need to sell me on it! I am sold! I was refering to those who use all the lame excuses we have seen in this thread and continue to go! They are a waste of breath, practice what you preach and you have my full attention!

[MissConduct]

Besides, it's porn, not reality. Who cares who actually comes?

 

Well there you go right there!

 

As a woman I care who comes because I would like to see the woman getting real enjoyment out if it too, not just having the woman dedicate all this time to get the MAN get off! That is what makes porn objectifying of women, in lesbain porn women dedicate time to get the woman off.

 

 

But you wouldn't understand because like you said, who cares!

[IrishCarBomb]

No no, I don't think ALL men think like that,. I said all men who frequent strip joints and use excuses.

 

Ahh... glad I misunderstood.

 

If you need a good reason to go, you need to be there. It's that simple to me.

 

So if your boyfriend's lifelong best-friend had a bachelor party in Vegas, would you expect him not to go? Or would any reason for him going just be an excuse? Obviously he wouldn't regularly do these things. But does that situation seem any different?

 

I was refering to those who use all the lame excuses we have seen in this thread and continue to go!

 

Agreed. To me these guys would just be liars. Much easier for everyone involved if people are just up-front about these things.

[MissConduct]

So if your boyfriend's lifelong best-friend had a bachelor party in Vegas, would you expect him not to go? Or would any reason for him going just be an excuse? Obviously he wouldn't regularly do these things. But does that situation seem any different?

 

 

Noooo of course I would never stand in the way of that, that's a once in a lifetime deal and it IS his best lifelong friend. Now if it were that all his friends and work colleagues were having bachelor parties from time to time and he "needed" to go that's different. We have discussed this with my guys and it usually ends in, I don't even want to be there so why go! Bachelor parties are a dime a dozen. I had an ex who went to the dinner part of a bachelor party of a close friend and then came home there was no point in "staying out all night paying hookers to rub up against him", his words not mine!

 

The whole topic of bachelor parties is a topic of its own, you spend years being faithful to a woman you are about to marry and spend the rest of your life for, you are telling the world and your family "this is the woman I respect and love enough to want to spend the rest of my life with her" and the tradition of embarking in that journey is going to a strip joint to see who can make the groom cave and finally get him to get the blowjob in the VIP room.

 

It is SO backwards in my mind and simply can't understand the hypocrisy in doing that the day before you marry.

 

 

But whatever, the whole concept seems crazy to me but I am not here to change society. As long as my man and I are on the same page, "hooker" away men!

[Jersey Shortie]

It's not just as black and white as ok and not ok like you see it though. There are varying degrees of dislike and like towards strip clubs for both genders, and the questions and situations you pose always assume that the woman in question has as deep a hatred towards strip clubs as you do, which just isn't true.

 

My questions do nothing of the sort. And rather then discuss the topic with me, you rather personally attack me and make false statements about how *I* feel. I don't have a deep hatred of strip clubs. That would be like me telling you you have a deep love of them.

 

 

And maybe I jumped the gun in judging you, but to me it says a lot to me when someone won't at least acknowledge the opposing sides viewpoint

.

 

The opposing view point is the reason that men go to strip clubs because they want to be able to get to the possible cloest thing they can to cheating right infront of their gf/wives nose.

 

 

My money is on enjoying a sexually charged atmosphere with females other than your SO without a sense of betrayal. Since men are hard-wired for promiscuity, this is a socially "safe" way to enjoy variety, from a male perspective, anyway

 

 

I've said as much before. The thing is that it IS a sense of betrayal for alot of women and who can blame them? You are already admitting that you do it to get away with something, you do it because it is sexual and it does invovle other women. And really, that's why alot of men do it. And then alot of men sit here making fun of women or calling them "insecure" when the man that is suppose to be commited and faithful is doing his best to get as close to being with other women as he can. You might as well just pubically humilate your girlfriend/wife because that's doing a damn good job of it. But that doens't matter right? YOu're a man and your needs matter. Women are just interchangable pieces of crap that apparently deserve to have men that infact do try to get as close as they can to sexual situations with other women. And then have the nerve to call women insecure and completely disrespect her feelings on it.

 

What you are hard wired for doesn't matter. A woman is hard wired for certain things as well but that doesn't mean she gets to **** all over her man for it. I guess when you are a man, it does mean you get to crap all over your girlfriend for it. You're a *man*..so even if you put yourself in a commited relationship, it don't need to respect that relationship. That seems to be what alot of men are saying. Alot of you guys justify yourselves because your "men". Well it's weak. And selfish. and petty. If you want other women, dont' get in a committed relationship! Whta is so hard for men to do that? Why do you men do this crap and then make the woman that loves you pay for it the most?

 

Also I have noticed in porn women always fake orgasms they never come or the men never spend enough real time making them come the important thing is to show the man cumming, if that doesn't tell you the whole industry gears towards DISRESPECTING and make women inferior than you can consider yourself a full fletched misogynist. (you as in the general you)

 

I agree. I think more and more men now-adays do want women to feel inferior. We always talk about women's insecurities with porn but what is porn if not a fantasy world that feeds all of men's own insecurities.

 

 

 

The whole topic of bachelor parties is a topic of its own, you spend years being faithful to a woman you are about to marry and spend the rest of your life for, you are telling the world and your family "this is the woman I respect and love enough to want to spend the rest of my life with her" and the tradition of embarking in that journey is going to a strip joint to see who can make the groom cave and finally get him to get the blowjob in the VIP room.

 

It is SO backwards in my mind and simply can't understand the hypocrisy in doing that the day before you marry.

 

Again, I agree. It's obviously what is most important to men. It's certainly not the woman in their life. IT's his strip clubs and friends.

[spookie]

IMO comparing porn to strip clubs is like comparing apples to bbq pork.

[MissConduct]

I agree. I think more and more men now-adays do want women to feel inferior. We always talk about women's insecurities with porn but what is porn if not a fantasy world that feeds all of men's own insecurities.

 

Well yeah that's just it, men try to say that porn or the whole sex industry is harmless that it is just a release that there is nothing wrong with it but on the same forum I quoted from the stripper/porn start she was sharing who were some of her favorite male stars to do scenes with. Well more than one guy pipe in to tell her they didn't care about the guys and especially the ones she was talking about. They told her they only wanted to see her in the scenes and with other women or with a guy like Ron Jeremy, (no guf!)

 

I looked up the guys she was referring to and they were absolutely gorgeous. I mean really hot looking guys, no wonder her fans didn't want to see those men in the scenes, that is intimidating to them. Well hung extremely buffed hot guys.

 

Pffft. Some of these guys are full of shet that they would not be intimidated if their women were watching men in porn all day long.

 

IMO comparing porn to strip clubs is like comparing apples to bbq pork.

 

Yes and no. They both do a great job at objectifying women, in that respect they are exactly alike. Now one is fantasy and it leads to a good jerk off the other is real and it could lead to physical sexual contact. But in both the women are being paid and used to entice solely the man's whim.

[flyingtim01]

Am I the only one who thinks that the term 'sexualized atmosphere' or whatever being applied to a strip club is a kinda funny? Think about it...for every naked woman with a limp and lazy eye, you have maybe a dozen men. That's not a very sexy ratio, in my estimation. Then when you factor in a large, hairy bouncer, a goofy DJ with the world's worst song library and a funny smell in the air...lets just say that's not how MY bedroom is set up.

 

Kidding aside, I'd just like to say that while I fall into the category of guys who find that strip clubs fall much more into the 'funny' column than the 'sexy' column, its legal, and we're adults and can make our own decisions. It doesn't make us bad people, and I don't particularly care for how some people are lumping men into one, big untrustworthy pile, as though we use the same club for finding dinner as we do for finding mates. While I'm sure that there are plenty of fine male examples of that mentality, I'm also sure that there are an equal number of examples to the contrary. We're not all the same. Generalizations aren't very nice, and when someone does that (whether it be racial, ideological or moral) it usually speaks more to their own inherent lack of trust (or some kind of fear) than the behavior of the group they are generalizing.

 

I'd also like to say that I agree with what sam spade and some others have been saying. To each their own, live and let live. Not into strip clubs? Don't go. Don't support them. And don't be with someone who thinks they're cool. As we've found in this thread alone, there are lots of girls AND guys who would be fine with never setting foot inside of one. But don't pass judgment on people who are okay with them...there are lots of them. Have your opinion, discuss it with your SO, and figure out between the two of you what is acceptable behavior within your relationship. Just my two cents.

[Jersey Shortie]

I looked up the guys she was referring to and they were absolutely gorgeous. I mean really hot looking guys, no wonder her fans didn't want to see those men in the scenes, that is intimidating to them. Well hung extremely buffed hot guys.

 

Yeah, they probalby want to see the middle aged fat guy with no hair so they can say.."if she lets that guy stick it in her she would let me..oh yeah baby!".

 

Am I the only one who thinks that the term 'sexualized atmosphere' or whatever being applied to a strip club is a kinda funny?

 

Why is it funny? It is a sexualized atmosphere. I live in NJ. In NYC they have a placed called "Scores", alot of guys go there, alot of rich men go there. They go to get turned on. Alot of guys go to oggle young women even if they have someone at home that loves him and wants to have sex with him. I mean, I am sure some strip clubs aren't as hot as others but all in all, the idea of a strip club is one of naked women and men watchin gnaked women dance for them. It's not to get good food, hang out with friends, or laught at the strippers. It's to oggle t & a. that's the first and maind reason for strip clubs. All the other side factors might happen but the first reasons stands alone.

[cn283]

I'm not a guy or "all guys" for that matter. But when I asked my guy friends about strip clubs this is what they told me:

 

Some only went because they were pressured to go by other friends, they thought it was a waste of time and money and would have preferred to go to a sports bar.

 

Some went because they thought it was a fun harmless activity, they like looking at girls dancing naked. To explain in the kind of detail some chicks are seeking as to why they like it would be extremely difficult if not impossible. That's like someone asking you why you like sunsets and didn't think "they're pretty" wasn't a good enough answer.

 

And yes, there were the few guys that were honestly attracted to strippers, they liked the fact they gave them attention. There are some dudes out there that are scummy and if given the chance, would do something questionable. Are all guys like that? No, and its a immature and sad way to look at the world if you believe all guys have no control over themselves.

 

A bar or club on a Saturday night is a sexually charged atmosphere, would you not let a BF or H go to those? If he told you he didn't feel like you were respecting him because you like to go dance with your friend wouldn't you feel like he was controlling, selfish, and insecure? Guys feel that way because after a while, yes, you should know them better. And keeping a running tally of "what builds trust and what hurts trust" doesn't sound like a very fun relationship.

[Jersey Shortie]

How come the question of control only comes into the picture once the man is physically in the strip club? It seems like there is some irony there. I don't think that most women think that a guy is going to cheat. But I bet more men get lap dances then they tell. And I bet more men downplay how they feel about strip clubs to the women they are friends and lovers with. Frankly, we hear all the time how sexual men are. Men even say themselves that all a girl has to do is wear a low cut top to get turned on. Quite honestly, back tracking and saying naked women dancing around with nice bodies isn't meant to turn a guy on , or that a man won't be turned on, is ludicris.

 

It has nothing to do with running talllies. It's a reality for BOTH parties that you can either do things to build the trust, or break it down. It's just as true for female as for men. It's a reality of any relationship.

 

By the way, I don't go to regular clubs to go dance with my girlfriends.

[IrishCarBomb]

I bet more men downplay how they feel about strip clubs to the women they are friends and lovers with. Frankly, we hear all the time how sexual men are. Men even say themselves that all a girl has to do is wear a low cut top to get turned on. Quite honestly, back tracking and saying naked women dancing around with nice bodies isn't meant to turn a guy on , or that a man won't be turned on, is ludicris.

 

I bet more women downplay how they fell about money and jewelry to the men they are friends and lovers with. Frankly, we hear all the time how much women love money and jewelry. Women even say themselves that a man with more money that showers them with gifts is more attractive. Quite homestly, back tracking and saying that men with money aren't attractive is [ludicrous].

 

Yeah, you're right. This does all sound pretty ludicrous. Probably best if I just be reasonable about this kind of stuff. But what am I saying?!?!? Men cannot be reasonable as soon as we see a piece of skin, so I guess my cause is just totally lost.

[Jersey Shortie]

Really IrishCarBomb, if you want to start another post about your issues with women and money, that's great, please do. But your post does nothing in directly addressing the issues I brought up. It was more commentary to divert from the orginal topic. I am sure there are many issues men face with women and money and I am not abject discussing that but using it as an arguement in a thread completely unrelated and ignoring the orginal comments doesn't help anyone.

 

Again, why do comments about self control only come into the picture after the man physically has put himself in a situation that is sexual in nature to begin with? If men are proud of themselves for using self control wouldn't they be doubly proud of themselves for using the self control not to even step in a strip club and entertain the idea of it?

 

When men regulary comment how sexual they are and that they probably think of anyone from a woman's own friend to a woman walking down the street, how do you not expect a woman to feel upset and questionable about a man putting himself in close quarters with naked women that are obviously offering a degree of sexual excitment. I never once said that men don't have self control. There are just realistic factors you have to consider. Which is it guys? You aren't as sexual as you say you are and are completely unaffected by other naked young women dancing around? Or you are sexual beings and just a woman on the street in a short skirt can cause sexual fantasies? Don't you see the confusion for women?

[mr.dream merchant]

RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE!

 

I fixed your post for you Jersey Shortie. And to answer your two questions are the end of your post...it's both. It isn't as cut and dry as you think it is. When some male posters actually try to explain to you how it works all you do is shoot them down for being misogynists. That's like me asking a female poster what get's her riled up and then turning around and calling her a filthy cheating whore. Wtf? Rofl just go live alone on an island with a rifle and some cardboard targets of men. You'll be content.

[carhill]

Yeah, they probably want to see the middle aged fat guy with no hair so they can say.."if she lets that guy stick it in her she would let me..oh yeah baby!".

Sheesh, are you all trying to give me a lovely 50th BD present, or what? I think I've seen this phrase 100 times now.

 

For women who seem to detest men who use superficial terms to describe women, you all seem to be coloring that kettle pretty good.

 

Now, seriously, in those 50 years, I've never been to a strip club, gentleman's club, topless bar, brothel, cat house, etc, so I can't comment on how such depravity affects the male psyche and marital relations. It doesn't affect mine.

 

Of course, a woman dancing naked in front of me is going to affect me, which is why I would prefer it, and require it, to be a woman I'm involved with emotionally. Anything else is just superficial and empty.

 

Again, this is an issue of male negative behavior garnering female time, energy and emotion. Why you all don't dump these losers and get with the guys who value you and the sanctity of relationships and love is beyond me.

 

OK, rant over...time for some coffee to medicate my mid-life crisis

[AAlike]

I will say this...I am one of the people who finds strip clubs to be way more humorous than I do erotic, and I would think that would be the determinant. I've been to a strip club twice in my 18 months of being in a relationship - once because my GF wanted to take her little brother for his 21st b-day and neither of them had been to one, and once for a bachelor party, during which I called her three times in order to discuss the hilarity that was going on. it was certainly not an issue. I did not get a lapdance but I doubt that she would have cared a whole heck of a lot - however, she knew that I was turned on because I called her later to "talk me off" (haha). never caused a problem.

 

However, if I was REGULARLY going to strip clubs for reasons other than special occassions, and getting lapdances and knowing the girls by name, etc. etc., I'm sure that she would be pissed and rightfully so.

 

and I think porn should be the same way. I still watch porn on occassion - generally when either her or I are travelling for business, or the occassional sporadic moment where I'm feeling ultra frisky and she's not around. But I don't watch it anywhere even close to as much as when I was single, and I certainly never opt to watch it over having sex with her - it only plays a role of providing me with some generic visual stimulation when I want to take care of biz and she's not around. and again, I think this should be the determinant. If it got to a point in which I was more interested in porn than actual sex in any occurrence, then perhaps it should be evaluated. until then, it's a non-issue for us.

[Jersey Shortie]

I fixed your post for you Jersey Shortie.

 

You certianly did. The "fix" now makes me picture you sitting there with a little drool coming down your chin grinning like a monkey. I bet that "fix" was difficult for you Sugar Lamb. We don't expect much to begin with but we are proud of what you are able to accomplish with your meager natural skills.

 

And to answer your two questions are the end of your post...it's both. It isn't as cut and dry as you think it is. When some male posters actually try to explain to you how it works all you do is shoot them down for being misogynists.

 

Wrong, and again showing your hypocritical comments. When I, or other women try to explain their side of it *YOU* shoot them down with your misanderist comments. You don't like it.

 

That's like me asking a female poster what get's her riled up and then turning around and calling her a filthy cheating whore. Wtf? Rofl just go live alone on an island with a rifle and some cardboard targets of men. You'll be content.

 

You walk around this board refering to women as "bitches", you're not far removed from the comment above actually Mr. Dream. You're inability to see your own lack of congentive thinking skills is entertaining.

[Jersey Shortie]

Sheesh, are you all trying to give me a lovely 50th BD present, or what? I think I've seen this phrase 100 times now.

 

It's not men like you Carhill that are the problem. Even if you are in the same age group.

 

 

 

 

"....she knew that I was turned on because I called her later to "talk me off" (haha). never caused a problem."

 

While some women aren't bothered it, most women don't want to be the closing act to a night spent getting turned on and titlated by other women. There is no bigger way to communicate, for some women, how you see your partner by using other women to get turned on and then using your partner to get off with, having nothing to do with her. Everything to do with the pleasure you think yo udeserve and nothing to do with really wanting to make her feel like a woman.

 

 

Again, the real message that seems to always comes through with men is that men's sexual needs over power and out weight anything a woman could want or need. His needs or of greater importance then a woman's. Men care very little about doign the things, giving the things that make women feel valued and appreciated over satisfying their own needs and placing greater importance on it.

[Nikki Sahagin]

There is no 'harm' in enjoying any aspect of the sex industry but people need to realise, it IS an industry, a buisness and it does use people. The porn industry is a meat market pretty much like the fast food industry. It sucks up people who are poor, in debt, have substance abuse or addiction issues or have suffered difficult lives. Some people gravitate to the sex industry buisness because they enjoy it, want to or choose to, I would say this is about 1% of the industry. Normal, healthy and functional adults, do not want to work in the sex industry. The majority of the people that do are damaged or desperate in some way. Therefore in partaking in this industry, you are contributing to someones suffering. In much the same way as you can buy a happy meal and think nothing of it, you have contributed to an industry that murders and slaughters animals and raises them in an unhygienic, cramped and miserable existance, just to eat something, that no, i'm sorry, you did not need. I think that is comparable to the sex industry. No-one needs to go to a strip club. You want to and you can get away with it, so you do.

 

If you are enjoying the sex industry, then at least accept, that you are contributing to a buisness that sucks in peoples wives, daughters, sisters and mothers for your enjoyment. As I said, there are prostitutes, strippers and escorts who enjoy there job - 1 %. The rest are there because there is little or no other alternative. It is an industry that used people. But that sums up our society; we don't care so long as we are okay. As I said there is no harm enjoying this, so long as you can accept you are playing your part.

 

The irony is men would hate if there mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives or daughters did this job, but don't mind seeing any other woman do it. This is because you can dehumanise these women. Your mother, wife, sister, daughter have emotional value to you. The women in the industry are not so much women to you as objects, toys, playthings, whores, s***, a whole load of words that makes them inhuman and encourages hate. That's why even women tend to hate other women, because you dehumanise them. They aren't 'real people'. They are 'Star' or 'Honey' or whatever name they are hiding behind.

 

I am open-minded to pornography but even then I have moral reservations because as a woman I think it is important to be aware of the suffering of other women as and when it occurs. Strip clubs though - no. Completely dissrespectful. Call me insecure, call me conversative, call me whatever. I am not for them.

[Jersey Shortie]

The irony is men would hate if there mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives or daughters did this job, but don't mind seeing any other woman do it. This is because you can dehumanise these women. Your mother, wife, sister, daughter have emotional value to you. The women in the industry are not so much women to you as objects, toys, playthings, whores, s***, a whole load of words that makes them inhuman and encourages hate. That's why even women tend to hate other women, because you dehumanise them. They aren't 'real people'. They are 'Star' or 'Honey' or whatever name they are hiding behind.

 

 

I disagree with women hating the other women but I agree with everything else. As a woman, it hurts seeing how much men like to dehumanize other women. It's great that men have loyatly to women in their own "network"/"family". But what is that really saying? Does he really respect women or by default of his envolvement with other women, their connection to *him*, that makes the respect more worthy. Him being the main factor, and not the woman herself for who she is. And what of the rest of us? Do we deserve to be desrespected? Thought less of? Do we deserve to have boyfriends that seem nothing wrong with debasing our gender as long as it isn't "us"? Isn't it still debasement of our gender? I think porn does encourage hate and dehumanation towards women. But often it seems men think their sexuality should overrule all that. I wish men were more honest and realistic about porn.

[IrishCarBomb]

Really IrishCarBomb, if you want to start another post about your issues with women and money, that's great, please do. But your post does nothing in directly addressing the issues I brought up. It was more commentary to divert from the orginal topic. I am sure there are many issues men face with women and money and I am not abject discussing that but using it as an arguement in a thread completely unrelated and ignoring the orginal comments doesn't help anyone.

 

Forgive my parody, given the language of the quote and the language of my parody, I thought you would have picked up on my point. I'll use bright color schemes and pop-up books next time.