a4a Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I agree with most of the content of what you're telling her. I just hope you're saying it in a way she can hear it. Brilliant! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I just hope you're saying it in a way she can hear it.If you knew how much thought and time I put into responding to her, you'd know that we share this same sentiment. I don't think people realize that real tears were shed bringing my past up.....(not just mine either), not that it makes any difference, but trying to help does take a physical toll sometimes. There's also the embarrassment factor..... I doubt we'll ever hear from her again. But I'll continue to keep her in my thoughts and prayers..... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you knew how much thought and time I put into responding to her, you'd know that we share this same sentiment. I don't think people realize that real tears were shed bringing my past up.....(not just mine either), not that it makes any difference, but trying to help does take a physical toll sometimes. There's also the embarrassment factor..... I doubt we'll ever hear from her again. But I'll continue to keep her in my thoughts and prayers..... Moose this is not about your pain......this is about hers. Your way to deal with your pain is yours to choose, not hers, not mine, not your neighbors. I believe she will be back. Perhaps with a warmer reception- you might get the message through "she will get through this and must choose the best path for her future now".... in a way that she can understand and chooses to hear. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Thanks a4a, I realize that.....I'm not going to bother with her anymore, even if she asks. There are plenty of people here at LS who can help her out.... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Sorry just didn't get the drama about the "shedding tears" thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Sorry just didn't get the drama about the "shedding tears" thing.Honestly, your, "brilliant" comment sparked it. It was a very hard thing for me to throw my personal baggage out on a public forum only to have it scoffed at by her, and then by you, (and others) The truth is not often received very well at first. I honestly can't tell you how many people I've pissed off telling them like it is only to find them on my doorstep in the middle of the night some years later apologizing for not listening in the first place. It's not easy watching an impending train wreck while knowing how to stop it, yet powerless to do so. I hope we do hear from her again, and we get better news. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Honestly, your, "brilliant" comment sparked it. It was a very hard thing for me to throw my personal baggage out on a public forum only to have it scoffed at by her, and then by you, (and others) The truth is not often received very well at first. I honestly can't tell you how many people I've pissed off telling them like it is only to find them on my doorstep in the middle of the night some years later apologizing for not listening in the first place. It's not easy watching an impending train wreck while knowing how to stop it, yet powerless to do so. I hope we do hear from her again, and we get better news. I hope you notice from this that you do your share of scoffing...... and the need to control things also is part of your inability to get people to hear you. I can say I was not scoffing anything. But for you to say you dealt with it here is how to do so.... might not be the answer for her. You cannot drive your solutions that worked for you down the throats of others so relentlessly. My "Brilliant" was to say I agreed with StoryR's statement. Please reread it. Moose honestly your story does not make me shed tears...... I have heard, seen, and lived worse. No scoffing or scorn or laughing at you. Nor do I expect anyone to shed a tear for me. (I prefer cash ) If someone like you talked to me that way when I was 13 I would have concerned you a callous ass........ and not listened at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Kenyth Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 This story brings to mind a saying I heard once and repeat to myself when I have questions like this. "The rain falls upon the just and unjust alike." God does not micromange humanity and stop wickedness with physical manifestations in my experience. God works through us spiritually, from the inside, to make us better, stronger, happier, wiser, etc. He can't work from inside the wicked because they won't let him in to begin with. It is our job and lot as the ones who let him in to help stop the wickedness with the good he has given inside us. Morality, strength, wisdom, courage, determination, compassion, love, etc. Don't turn your head away and pray for God's intervention when you see something like this happening. YOU ARE GOD'S INTERVENTION! Don't fail in your job. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I hope you notice from this that you do your share of scoffing...... and the need to control things also is part of your inability to get people to hear you. I can say I was not scoffing anything. But for you to say you dealt with it here is how to do so.... might not be the answer for her. You cannot drive your solutions that worked for you down the throats of others so relentlessly. My "Brilliant" was to say I agreed with StoryR's statement. Please reread it. Moose honestly your story does not make me shed tears...... I have heard, seen, and lived worse. No scoffing or scorn or laughing at you. Nor do I expect anyone to shed a tear for me. (I prefer cash ) If someone like you talked to me that way when I was 13 I would have concerned you a callous ass........ and not listened at all.It really is hard to read and, "feel" where you're coming from. Sorry about that...... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 It really is hard to read and, "feel" where you're coming from. Sorry about that...... I know a nice little place where the beer is cold and ............ You are not the first to say this... In RL people say the same. and Kenyth.... I am wicked yet I do good deeds all the time... so not sure what to think of myself after your post...... I am heathen watch me be compassionate and intervene. Link to post Share on other sites
Kenyth Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I know a nice little place where the beer is cold and ............ You are not the first to say this... In RL people say the same. and Kenyth.... I am wicked yet I do good deeds all the time... so not sure what to think of myself after your post...... I am heathen watch me be compassionate and intervene. Aww cmon A4A, you're just wicked good, that's all! Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Aww cmon A4A, you're just wicked good, that's all! I am satans daughter...... mawhaaaa haaa haaaa.... see even fooled you! It sucks when bad things happen to good people.... but that is life. - viewpoint from a satanette Link to post Share on other sites
lonelybird Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 (edited) I'm glad you were honest enough to post a smilie there. One of the most hypocritical things about religion is the extent to which preachers wail and rail against the notion of sin, when they rely so greatly on sin and sinners so much for their sense of purpose and identity. What does an idealist become in an ideal world? What's a healer with nothing to heal? What's a rescuer if there are no persecutory people or circumstances to create victims? How can a mullah indulge his sadistic side without Sharia Law to invent sins and validate the violent punishment of those sins? God and the Devil are handy names for forces of nature that sometimes work in ways we like, and sometimes in ways we hate and fear. Like the beloved but absent mother and the wicked stepmother of a fairytale, they're really the same creature perceived in different ways. You could equally refer to them/it as nature, life, the way the world works and so on. Yes, life is sometimes tough, but we who have faith can see God how work the even bad into good things, we see God's glories upon glories, we come out tough situation healed and grow stronger and better than before we were in the tough situation, and after that we were increased faith and hope and love for God. although in a storm, we know where we are going, and during storm we can see how great God's love and forgiveness is. Bitterness has no business with us Life is much better than a fairy tale when you have faith in God feed yourself with God's word and spirit, kingdom of heaven is in you Edited December 21, 2007 by lonelybird Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 That's just want everyone wants. Now, Now, Now... always. You kind of have to be open-minded and expand your horizon a little. Don't expect an instant answer but do expect an answer. It may not come now but in the future it will come, it just requires the patience that most people just don't have today. Whatever you need to tell yourself in order to rationalize. All I know is that if I was staving to death, as well as everyone I ever knew and loved (like so many people are dealing with today in this world), and my "father" had not done anything about it over several generations, I would have to conclude that: a. he's doesn't exist (simplest explaination is usually the correct one) b. he doesn't know (therefore not a god) c. he can't do anything about it (therefore not a god) d. he doesn't care (a malevolent being unworthy of worship) The question is, "Why does God let bad things happen to good people." Your answers seem to boil down to, "A very good reason!" I don't care how mysterious you want to believe your god is, letting people suffer is the opposite of benevolent. I only wish your god existed. I'll throw the first stone. You are all worshipping a demon in white. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 And my Father didn't do anything about it, I would have to conclude that: a. I didn't do anything either Your entitled to your opinion, but I have to say that your thinking is way off about what believers expect from God. It isn't a free ride. Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 And my Father didn't do anything about it, I would have to conclude that: a. I didn't do anything either Your entitled to your opinion, but I have to say that your thinking is way off about what believers expect from God. It isn't a free ride. What are you talking about? How is a starving baby at fault or expecting a "free ride"? Are you just stumped for an answer? I am too, as are we all, but come on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 What are you talking about? How is a starving baby at fault or expecting a "free ride"? Are you just stumped for an answer? I am too, as are we all, but come on.Starving babies? I wasn't aware that we were talking about starving babies. I'm not really stumped for an answer, but I do have a pretty good theory.... If the entire world believed in, (in my case God), one set of agreed core moral beliefs that included equality in wealth and possesions...that would stave off most of the world's problems. It'll never happen because man is too selfish by nature. And we would still be limited by our own stupidity. Link to post Share on other sites
lonelybird Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I believe that Father wants us adult to do something about hungry kids. and for those hungry kids who died of lack of food, I believe they go directly to heaven As for adults, we do have responsibility for our own act and it's consequences. when Father told you to follow spirit not flesh, you can choose spirit or flesh always. but if you choose to disobey, there are always consequences. Usually people don't ask themselves why they choose to disobey spirit and follow own flesh and selfishness, but they want to blame God. when God gives right spirit to overcome everything, but if people don't follow the right spirit, then they will lost Usually either a person condemnate self too much, or don't think self can make mistakes at all (self-righteousness). There is a fine balance. Learn from God about own mistakes, and move on and improve self instead of self condemnation Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 (edited) I also believe that it is up to us humans to take care of the starving babies. Interesting! But I call it Humanism. I believe that it is up to us because there is no one else to do it. It is my opinion that if there was a god that could do something about it, then he/she/it has a respondsibility to do act or it is evil/inept/ignorant. Edited December 25, 2007 by shadowofman addition Link to post Share on other sites
lonelybird Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 (edited) I also believe that it is up to us humans to take care of the starving babies. Interesting! But I call it Humanism. I believe that it is up to us because there is no one else to do it. It is my opinion that if there was a god that could do something about it, then he/she/it has a respondsibility to do act or it is evil/inept/ignorant. Actually HE did. He asked us to do, to help others. God often works through people to help people, he made us according to his image, that means we should be compassionate, and loving; and God is behind of humanism, HE improves humanism Edited December 25, 2007 by lonelybird Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moose Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 It is my opinion that if there was a god that could do something about it, then he/she/it has a respondsibility to do act or it is evil/inept/ignorant.Interesting take on things. Curious, do you mean that you God needs to make the first move? Or more so, what do you want Him to do? I'm asking you to hypothetically believe He exists..... Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I refer to the Humanist philosophy that there is no divine help and therefore we humans must help each other. I'm sure you believe that God is behind everything good and that is an opinion that you are entitled to. I personally see no evidence of such and infact see evidence to the contrary. Mark Twain wrote an amazing book called Letters to Earth that illustrates this question very well. My favorite point he makes in it is about how germs are actually God's chosen people, and how arrogant the humans are for thinking that it's themselves. The fact that there are creatures like the ebola virus illustrate an evil/inept/ignorant god, if there is one. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Moose Well if I was a god, I wouldn't have created a world at all. Or, if I could help myself, I would have created it and left it completely alone with no direction. Basically just disappeared, but then we would have the exact same world we have today. Or, I would show myself to everyone and not demand blind faith. I would provide undenyable evidence for my existance. I would dig the wells in Africa myself. I would work the burn ward at the childrens hospitals. I would make all the weapons on the planet not work anymore. I could go on but I think you get my point. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I changed to Lovelybird by the way my faith isn't blind faith, I have TONS of proves Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Sorry lovely, and yes you are:love:, I didn't notice the change in name because I was blinded by your beauty. And to you your faith is not blind and I understand your point. There is nothing that I can say to deny your subjective proof other than my disbelief (which isn't much as far as your concerned). It is my opinion, and admittedly my assumption, that you are attributing very mundane events or personal realizations to a higher power. Example: If you pray for the answer to a tough question, and then you come up with the answer. What proof do you have that it was a miracle other than an assumption based on a preconceived notion? You probably would have come up with that answer whether you prayed or not. And how could you possibly know one way or the other? I personally believe that everything good that you have ever done, was done because you are a good person. You are the source of all you good deeds. Likewise, if you do bad things, I wouldn't blame the devil, I would blame you. Personal respondsibility. Link to post Share on other sites
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