Why does God let bad things happen to innocent people?

[JamesM]

Heaven is imaginary, so that one is ruled out. "Loved ones" by definition means they love you which means they care.

 

The Bible God's love is extremely biased and fickle, far more so than many humans I've met. He went so far as to have His own "Chosen People" whom He would direct to slaughter other groups of people (obviously not His favourites), and confine all of His interventions, blessings and prophets to them at the exclusion of the rest of the planet.

 

If God truly is the Father or Creator of us all, does it not strike you as quite appalling that He spent a lot of time throughout human history playing one group against another, ordering genocide, infanticide, brutal retributions, all for His own glory? Don't you find that the least bit repulsive?

 

Cheers,

D.

 

You have interesting interpretations, I have to admit.

 

 

I couldn't help but wonder...since you have admitted on another thread that you are married to a Christian, what are your wife's answers to these questions? Have you discussed with her what she bases her strong love for Jesus Christ upon? Does she find Him repulsive?

[DutchGuy]

God promised suffering to his believers when they were baptised. As a follower of christ, you suffer for your beliefs, and by doing so you are given a place in heaven.

 

Well, your loved ones can't give you a place in heaven, for one. Not everyone's loved ones give a crap about what someone else in their family is feeling, but God offers love to all of his children, not being biased to one person or the other.

 

Think about it, if we were never faced with difficulties, our faith wouldn't grow. God lets bad things happen to good AND bad people, so that their faith may grow into a stronger faith.

 

Heaven, if there ever was a definitive example of wishfull thinking...

As I stated before, Eternity = Hell, no matter the location or the circumstances. Can you even grasp the idea of eternity? I'd get out while you still can.

And then the way you have to spend that eternity, without any of your non-christian friends, family or even spouse... Yet some people seem to think that their dog will be there!

[disgracian]

James: I don't discuss the particulars of her beliefs on the internet; such things are personal and shall remain that way.

 

Cheers,

D.

[JamesM]

James: I don't discuss the particulars of her beliefs on the internet; such things are personal and shall remain that way.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I can respect that and understand your position. My question certainly was not one of intrusion or an attack upon you or your wife. It was as it sounds...curious.

[Yosef]

Heaven, if there ever was a definitive example of wishfull thinking...

As I stated before, Eternity = Hell, no matter the location or the circumstances. Can you even grasp the idea of eternity? I'd get out while you still can.

And then the way you have to spend that eternity, without any of your non-christian friends, family or even spouse... Yet some people seem to think that their dog will be there!

 

I totally understand eternity. I would go insane in a pergatorial eternity such as the existance we live in now. Growing up on Earth and living on it for years, we build a false idea of what heaven is like. By assuming Heaven is similar to earth, eternity would be hell, but you've already crossed the line. Living for eternity in a place like what we're in now is hell, no doubts about it. But Heaven is perfect.

 

Personally, I think being dead for eternity is hell. A perfect life somewhere is better than the lack of life elsewhere, IMO.

 

Sorry if this might be going off-topic.

[bigheartkindsoul]

Because he doesn't exist, if he did and was all about good then these awful things would not happen. But thats just my own view and not intended to upset or offend anyone. We all have our own views on religion.

[NightsInWhiteSatin]

I second bigkindheartedsoul on that one....and if he/she/it does exist and has all this power, control, holy diviness etc...they're very sick in my eyes to let and allow the very wrong things to go on in this world that do. But then again, im on the fence...do i believe or don't i? If i do, i've got one hell of a bone to pick with the guy/gal/it thing that's all im saying.

[disgracian]

I can respect that and understand your position. My question certainly was not one of intrusion or an attack upon you or your wife. It was as it sounds...curious.

I didn't take it as an attack. I'd be very curious indeed if I were in your shoes.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

Living for eternity in a place like what we're in now is hell, no doubts about it. But Heaven is perfect.

Perfection is a concept that is bandied about rather too casually. I'd be willing to bet that most people who use it don't even know what it means. Yosef, I wonder if you can elaborate on what it means for Heaven to be perfect. Will all our wildest dreams and fantasies come true every moment? Even the immoral ones, or will they be somehow purged? If so, does that mean everybody becomes, in Christian apologetics parlance, robots without free will if parts of our personality are removed?

 

Won't we mourn those who didn't make it, or will we somehow be separated from our empathy and compassion for them? Or will we be having too much fun to notice?

 

I'm sure you can see that I could ask an endless barrage of questions but I'll stop there just to give you some things to think about. I'd be very interested to hear your answer.

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

Heaven has no tears, no disease, people love each other, not deprive each other like here on earth, if that isn't perfection, what is it? If you know or acknowledge just a little bit about God's unconditional love here on earth, it isn't difficult to know what heaven look like. Because here on earth, we are limited by our flesh views, we block the perfect love that come from God, we fail to understand his love. But in heaven, no such thing. we aren't limited by our physical eyes and minds. I had the moment that feel extremely happiness, peace and rejoice, feel loved by God and everywhere is love, but that kind moments didn't last long, it is like waves, go and come. I guess in heaven this kind of moment become eternal.

 

Here on earth we are in a fallen world, suffering is inavoidable. suffering is like storms. There is a story about Jesus and his disciples on a boat, and suddenly storm came, all disciples paniced and asked Jesus to save them, but Jesus was sleeping, yes, even in the life threatening storm, then when he was awakened by his disciples, he said they had too little faith, and he scolded the wind to stop. that means we SHOULD be like Jesus, when storms come, we should put our eyes on Lord, and totally trust in God. He gave us Holy Spirit that was in him and now same in us. Often we fail to do so because of our circumstances. we view things good and bad by our human definition, our view is too short, we are like a frog who think the well is the world.

 

when God reveal himself to you and teach you about him, do you look (spiritually speaking) at God and choose human logic? I don't think so. I use human logic, to the tangible world and human, not to God and faith.

 

Then how do we can approach or comprehend God? only takes heartly repentance and humble yourself before him, he will reveal himself to you. many people find God through study his Words: Bible is a love book, full of God's love in there.

 

Have you ever thought about: if other's prayers got answered, if God works supernaturelly well in others' lives and change them and bless them, won't he do the same for me if I put trust in him? maybe you think you did too many bad things that God could not possibly forgive you, that is not the case. God can forgive any sinns, his grace and love is far beyond our imagination.

 

But if you are pride, come on, you cannot be pride when you face LIFE here on earth. don't let pride block your destiny and blessing just because of some useless pride

[disgracian]

LB, do you ever say anything relevant to the topic instead of banal preaching?

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

LB, do you ever say anything relevant to the topic instead of banal preaching?

 

Cheers,

D.

why do you can always speak banal comments, and I cann't?

[Yosef]

Perfection is a concept that is bandied about rather too casually. I'd be willing to bet that most people who use it don't even know what it means. Yosef, I wonder if you can elaborate on what it means for Heaven to be perfect. Will all our wildest dreams and fantasies come true every moment? Even the immoral ones, or will they be somehow purged? If so, does that mean everybody becomes, in Christian apologetics parlance, robots without free will if parts of our personality are removed?

 

Won't we mourn those who didn't make it, or will we somehow be separated from our empathy and compassion for them? Or will we be having too much fun to notice?

 

I'm sure you can see that I could ask an endless barrage of questions but I'll stop there just to give you some things to think about. I'd be very interested to hear your answer.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Perfection cannot be fully comprehended by any mortal. Even those who have been to heaven and back (yes, there are instances. you know, those ones that doctors insist is lack of oxygen, making every attempt to explain the unexplainable even when the truth is right in their face) cannot explain the quality of heaven. People have written books about their experience, and in the end are unable to completely explain the feelings they felt while there.

 

This is speaking from recorded evidence, mind you;)

[disgracian]

I thought so. So people who are deprived of oxygen, and hallucinate about a place they cannot even explain should somehow convince doctors when they already have a better explanation for what happens in near-death scenarios?

 

I can't help but think you're being very biased there with regards to what constitutes "truth" here. It seems you'll accept any account, even that from somebody in a non-waking state suffering oxygen deprivation, that supports your beliefs.

 

Lonelybird - Look up "banal" in a dictionary.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Yosef]

I thought so. So people who are deprived of oxygen, and hallucinate about a place they cannot even explain should somehow convince doctors when they already have a better explanation for what happens in near-death scenarios?

 

I can't help but think you're being very biased there with regards to what constitutes "truth" here. It seems you'll accept any account, even that from somebody in a non-waking state suffering oxygen deprivation, that supports your beliefs.

 

Note, doctors use "probably" when describing the reason behind heaven. It's probably the lack of oxygen to the brain. When multiple people make a "probably", they assume it's a "without-a-doubt", often what people do when they hear a myth. "I bet if you eat pop rocks and soda, you'll blow up." Well, the "I bet..." becomes "If you eat pop rocks and soda, you'll blow up."

 

Doctors have to think up something to disprove these near-death experiences, as doctors say that we have to think up something to disprove them. The argument goes both ways, making it pointless to argue over.

[Enema]

Note, doctors use "probably" when describing the reason behind heaven. It's probably the lack of oxygen to the brain. When multiple people make a "probably", they assume it's a "without-a-doubt", often what people do when they hear a myth. "I bet if you eat pop rocks and soda, you'll blow up." Well, the "I bet..." becomes "If you eat pop rocks and soda, you'll blow up."

 

Doctors have to think up something to disprove these near-death experiences, as doctors say that we have to think up something to disprove them. The argument goes both ways, making it pointless to argue over.

 

They say "probably" lack of oxygen because many things can cause near-death experiences, but that's the most common.

 

It's been shown in repeatable tests by stimulating certain parts of the brain with electrodes. They can stimulate different parts to get different reactions... from out of body experiences, right through to stimulating memories... ie. "my life flashed before my eyes!"

 

There is every reason to point the finger at the chemical and electrical activity in our brain and absolutely no reason to suspect something supernatural.

[disgracian]

Doctors have to think up something to disprove these near-death experiences

No they don't. Some doctors even believe in them as well. There remains, however, no reason to believe in an afterlife or heaven based on the disjointed, dreamlike images somebody experiences when blood stops flowing to their brains.

 

Cheers,

D.

[DutchGuy]

I think a god would know the difference between a dead person and a near-dead person well enough to not let them go to heaven by mistake.

 

"Uh, sorry I screwed up, I thought you were already dead... I'll send you back again."

[Moose]

Religious people claim that god offers protection and comfort yet there's not much to support that.

You're kiddding right? How would you know? Do you live inside believers? OHHHH......Wait a sec...You'd believe if you could actually, "see", my guardian angel(s) battling around me....wouldn't you? It's not enough for me to tell you they are there.....again....you're not on a level capable of understanding, and therefore, you'll always be in denial......

And if other people's free will and their consequently actions are so uncontrolable for god, then what can god actually do for you?

It's not what God can do for you......it what you can do for God......sound familiar? It should......you're stuck on yourself.....me, me, me.......it's NOT about YOU!! (Dr. Phil)

why would you say that god is there to protect and comfort you when there is absolutely nothing that he can do to stop you from getting hurt by other people?

Stop thinking on physical terms and you'll begin to understand......maybe......I'll give you the benefit of the doubt......

 

Besides, anything that happens to us that you would consider, "bad" is usually considered an, "opportunity" in the believer's eye.....

[DutchGuy]

Besides, anything that happens to us that you would consider, "bad" is usually considered an, "opportunity" in the believer's eye.....

 

I especially appreciate the opportunities offered to alterboys by priests.

[disgracian]

You're kiddding right? How would you know? Do you live inside believers? OHHHH......Wait a sec...You'd believe if you could actually, "see", my guardian angel(s) battling around me....wouldn't you? It's not enough for me to tell you they are there.....again....you're not on a level capable of understanding, and therefore, you'll always be in denial......

Because somebody who thinks he is routinely orbited by angels is a sound testimony for what is real and what isn't, and anybody who doesn't accept that account on face value is obviously in denial.

It's not what God can do for you......it what you can do for God......sound familiar? It should......you're stuck on yourself.....me, me, me.......it's NOT about YOU!! (Dr. Phil)

Nice dodge. In case you hadn't noticed (perhaps one of those angels obstructed your view), the thread is about why God intervenes or does not, and there have been plenty of people (including yourself) claiming that god does intervene, so this thread is in fact about what god can do for us.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

Because somebody who thinks he is routinely orbited by angels is a sound testimony for what is real and what isn't

Prove it then.

so this thread is in fact about what god can do for us

ONLY as a, "result" of what WE do first......

[disgracian]

The burden of proof is yours, as the person making the claim. I shouldn't have to remind you how this works. If you're adamant that it's not, then by all means prove that I am not in counsel with Loki, who is right now telling me what to type to you.

 

If you deem this an unreasonable request, well, now you know what I think about your "Prove it then" comment.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

If you deem this an unreasonable request, well, now you know what I think about your "Prove it then" comment.

It's a perfectly reasonable request.

 

I'll start by your not answering my second point. Let me refresh a comment made earlier by you to start:

Nice dodge. In case you hadn't noticed (perhaps one of those angels obstructed your view), the thread is about why God intervenes or does not, and there have been plenty of people (including yourself) claiming that god does intervene, so this thread is in fact about what god can do for us.

Nice Dodge....(back at ya), but with an answer, (flashback again):

ONLY as a, "result" of what WE do first..........

AND without an insult on what I know to be true. Or an insult from me about what you believe to be true.

 

Just touching the surface there without going TOO far off topic....

[disgracian]

I'm trying to understand what it is I apparently dodged, or what I said that you found insulting.

 

Cheers,

D.