A lesson

[Garcon1986]

Well just as many have said, you have only your shyness to blame for not grabbing a new opportunity by the horns.

[ZA Dater]

Well just as many have said, you have only your shyness to blame for not grabbing a new opportunity by the horns.

 

 

 

Yes and get rejected over and over again....assuming I could find anyone single to begin with.

 

 

I just don't feel I can attract anyone nice and that's been proven over and over I guess, the painful truth but the truth nonetheless.

 

 

And being shy is an instant turnoff to the confident out going ladies I find attractive so.

[Garcon1986]

Why do you refuse to use the women around you to work on your confidence? The only penalty to them is time.

 

 

This is #100th iteration of the same argument. Here we go, back to square one.

[Garcon1986]

If there's something you want -

- and you refuse to learn the skills to go get it -

- because the price of getting it is too high for you to stomach or otherwise tolerate -

- you are just wasting kinetic and potential energy on this forum that could be used elsewhere. Stop increasing the entropy of the electrons through the internet ether! hehe

 

 

All that energy you are burning here could be used towards making your company known nationwide or making your car club known throughout South Africa.

[Garcon1986]

I will quote the right honourable colleague Mrs Kitty Tantrum:

 

 

- He is a man of his word. He is so honest, and honorable, and consistent, and congruent in his words and actions - I have never been so easily able to recognize my own insecurities as I can against the backdrop of his steadfastness. He is regarded as a good and trustworthy man by everyone I've met who knows him. He is unafraid to give me answers I will hate when they are TRUE - and I love him for that perhaps more than anything.

 

- He is a good provider. I don't mean he makes a bunch of money, because he doesn't. What I mean is that he is willing to accept a less opulent standard of living so that I don't have to work for anyone else once we're married. I have met scarce few men truly willing to entertain that arrangement. He believes me when I say that I can contribute more value to our marriage and household directly with my time and energy than by selling those things for a wage, and he respects my desire to have a traditionally structured marriage and family. He is a hard worker and has many skills and talents he can employ to make money, and in the event that something goes really wrong, as long as he's not severely disabled I know that I can always count on him to provide food, water, fire, shelter, and protection.

 

- He knows how to make decisions, and how to tell me what to do. He kinda blew my mind really early on (I don't even remember if we had hooked up yet) when I was cleaning out the refrigerator in the kitchen of the big house where we met as housemates. I came across a mason jar that was full of something black and moldy and juicy, with the cap bulging and straining against the ring. I stood there holding it up and making a face at it for a moment, and I would have set it in my queue of jars to be emptied and cleaned, but he looked at me and said, very firmly, "Throw that one away." I have never given myself permission to throw away a mason jar, no matter how many millions of them I've accumulated accidentally. It was so liberating to have that decision made for me. It was an excellent and perfectly reasonable decision (saved more time and unpleasantness than any jar is worth) that I never would have made on my own. He's done similarly on occasion when he's seen me staring blankly at restaurant menus.

 

- He is competent and self-driven. I don't have to tell him what to do. I don't have to micromanage any of his affairs. He tends to his own business, and then he does things that he sees need to be done. He is clear and concise and kind in seeking my help when it suits him. We've never really had a conversation about division of labor, but he generally does the "men's work" before encroaching on my chore list. Not all of our previous housemates did a whole lot of housework, and I always liked that I'd be puttering around cleaning the common areas and doing the community laundry, and he'd be splitting firewood or mowing the grass or fixing something. On the other hand, if he decides to do the dishes or vacuum, I never have to worry that he's doing it to be passive aggressive - he actually wanted to do it.

 

- He opens doors for me. I feel like this is the mark of a decent person. I open and hold doors for people all the time - at nearly every reasonable opportunity. That he does so for me almost religiously, and will go out of his way to do it, is very touching.

 

- He is an excellent driver. Not necessarily the "obeys every posted limit" sort (that's me), but I've never felt safer as a passenger with anyone. I absolutely trust his ability to test the limits of a vehicle, AND to discern where and when it is (or isn't) appropriate to do so. I can fall asleep in the car while he's driving! I usually can't do that with anyone else driving unless I'm incredibly tired. He has actually taken several professional/high performance driving courses, and has a very good understanding of the physics and mechanics involved - and it shows. This is a skill/area of competence that I'd recommend EVERYBODY develop to the greatest extent they reasonably can. People spend an awful lot of time in cars these days. It's such a genuine pleasure, as a passenger, to have a good driver. Especially one who knows how to do things that feel crazy and fun - safely.

 

 

I am capable of doing all of the above things plus a bazillion other talents. And yet the singles in my city have all rejected me so far. How rejected and resentful do I feel? A lot. But as I've grown older my temper has calmed down. I've grown to understand the system and use it to my advantage, and have gained a big pile of dates and two amazing girlfriends (now ex for incompatibilities).

 

 

There will always be some who prize looks above everything, or say that if there's no sexual attraction, it won't work.

 

 

Also, there's the body language. If you can't project pleasant body language starting at the front door and first encounter no woman will want you regardless of your redeeming qualities. Harsh reality of women

[ZA Dater]

If there's something you want -

- and you refuse to learn the skills to go get it -

- because the price of getting it is too high for you to stomach or otherwise tolerate -

- you are just wasting kinetic and potential energy on this forum that could be used elsewhere. Stop increasing the entropy of the electrons through the internet ether! hehe

 

 

All that energy you are burning here could be used towards making your company known nationwide or making your car club known throughout South Africa.

 

 

Its not a price per se its the actual possibility of actually getting it. Logic says there is not much chance based on my current matches and past dates. I like at things this way, probable or not and if probable how can I go about making those odds better. Frankly I have no idea how to improve my odds based on what I have to work with.

 

 

I am sure someone who enjoys music festivals has a better set of odds than a guy who loves cars for example.

 

 

Certainly I think I do have good qualities and I think a lot of that article you quote I do match up to many of those but how important are those really?

 

 

Sadly what I mostly see around me are

 

 

1: Guys desperately doing things they don't really like to try and get laid

2: Guys being what they are not to try impress ladies.

 

 

What is so bad about being yourself?

 

 

You asked me why I don't simply jump back into this again because the price I pay is one that "infects" every single sphere of my life, I go out and chase and chase and get nowhere and feel completely defeated, nothing I seem to do is good enough which makes me grump and generally unpleasant.

 

 

IF I could say "ok I stand a pretty good chance here" then I'd be more enthusiastic but I keep asking myself if this whole thing is so perfect why do people do pay dates why do people employ sex workers.

 

 

Fundamentally NOBODY shows interest so why should I show any? I take all of the risk and get none of the reward. Does not seem worth it.

[ZA Dater]

Why do you refuse to use the women around you to work on your confidence? The only penalty to them is time.

 

 

This is #100th iteration of the same argument. Here we go, back to square one.

 

 

 

I do, my friendship with K is primarily a confidence booster but you try live in this corporate world and see how dating works here, its unheard of I meet anyone single and its unheard of anyone is interested so yes I go for a run along the beach and see many beautiful people but while I admire their beauty I know there is about as much chance of them being interested in me as there is of snow on table mountain.

 

 

Doesn't stop me hoping though but that's as fat as it goes. I guess deep down I know I am nowhere but if I tell myself I am somewhere I get to ignore the fact I am nearly 35 and never had a kiss never mind a gf.

 

 

As they say "whatever gets you through the day"

[Garcon1986]

I've been surrounded by women who don't date Asians man, and I have a doctor's schedule, so you can't complain about your schedule

 

Anyway whatever you feel comfortable with. Your energy is better spent out in the dating game or improving your business/ clubs, rather than debating us here. Describing your reasons for your inaction will not get you any closer to an intimate relationship.

 

You can either choose to get back in or choose to stay out. I use the approach - judge the interest level of every woman in the room based upon their body language, and approach those who may be relaxed and potentially up for a talk. Your energy is better spent there.

 

We all go to fire and dust eventually. It is everybody's sacred duty to spend time well. And I think debating Garcon is time not well spent

[chillii]

The fundamental problem is she isn't single. The other issue is I really value the friendship we have. Granted its not the kind of friendship where I see her every weekend.

 

 

I tried to date her once before and made a complete mess of it so in that respect she knows I like her. I bought her a really over the top gift to end the year and again her reaction was what I was hoping to get, she was really thrilled with it. How much she reads into my actions toward her I don't know but I try make those actions say "I like you" without actually saying "I like you" verbally.

 

 

She reads me very well so I'd be surprised if she doesn't see this. Or she simply uses me and loves the attention I lavish on her.

 

 

Thing is I like the attention she gives me so its a give take scenario and its this attention I keep trying to find on dates but never really seem to find.

 

 

Yeah right , shame she's with someone.

She know alright and yeah she probably enjoys that part but not only , she'd be enjoying the friendship too l bet.

 

But there ya go take heart in that because if you can have that with one woman you can have it with another it's just gotta be the right one is all.

She won't be on every corner, but she'll be out there somewhere and who knows , hopefully the paths will cross right place right time one day.

[chillii]

Yes and get rejected over and over again....assuming I could find anyone single to begin with.

 

 

I just don't feel I can attract anyone nice and that's been proven over and over I guess, the painful truth but the truth nonetheless.

 

 

And being shy is an instant turnoff to the confident out going ladies I find attractive so.

 

Ya might be surprised about that one.

Often the bubbly out going ladies end up with the quieter shy guy, dunno why but it happens a lot.

l think often women like that have a lot of hidden patience and understanding .

l know of 2 married couples where he's really quiet and shy but she's the opposite.

 

And one of my sisters has been with a guy about 15yrs , they aren't married but she a very very bright lady , educated to the hilt, happy, very out going , extremely in depth talker , but her boyfriend is opposite.

He's a mechanic , shy, very quiet , painfully quiet but, they have this thing and always seem content.

[ZA Dater]

I've been surrounded by women who don't date Asians man, and I have a doctor's schedule, so you can't complain about your schedule

 

Anyway whatever you feel comfortable with. Your energy is better spent out in the dating game or improving your business/ clubs, rather than debating us here. Describing your reasons for your inaction will not get you any closer to an intimate relationship.

 

You can either choose to get back in or choose to stay out. I use the approach - judge the interest level of every woman in the room based upon their body language, and approach those who may be relaxed and potentially up for a talk. Your energy is better spent there.

 

We all go to fire and dust eventually. It is everybody's sacred duty to spend time well. And I think debating Garcon is time not well spent

 

 

 

Sure but when none are single them what? Nobody even people I know here can tell me where to find single people.....I have an offensive theory but a theory nonetheless that if she is single there is probably a good reason why and to be fair I apply that to myself too.

 

 

Who'd want me? Nobody quite clearly.

 

 

I have tried clubs, I have tried going to sit in those place and I may as well not be there, everyone else is in groups of friends and groups of people and there is me....please they aren't interested in the guy sitting on his own.

 

 

Only thing I may try and see if meeting tourists is any easier, admittedly that's not ideal but perhaps they are more open minded and less judgemental than these locals.

[Normm]

I have an offensive theory but a theory nonetheless that if she is single there is probably a good reason why

 

You have effectively ruled out all single women as potential dating possibilities.

 

 

 

Well done.

[Blanco]

You have effectively ruled out all single women as potential dating possibilities.

 

 

 

Well done.

 

I mean, the upside is that it absolves him of responsibility for his own situation, which is ultimately I think what these threads are aimed to do.

[ZA Dater]

You have effectively ruled out all single women as potential dating possibilities.

 

 

 

Well done.

 

 

Why is it then I don't meet anyone single...and why is it the ones I meet on dating sites are so unsuitable, if they were so suitable they wouldn't be single, many have been on those sites for YEARS.

 

 

I think though OLD is a complete waste of time in SA. It might work well elsewhere but I can categorically say it doesn't work here.

 

 

I'll try going out and again and see if anyone notices me but I refuse to make any moves, if they are interested they can talk to me, am well tired of looking like an idiot.

[ZA Dater]

I mean, the upside is that it absolves him of responsibility for his own situation, which is ultimately I think what these threads are aimed to do.

 

 

 

Responsibility for what exactly? Being different? Refusing to conform to what I consider ridiculous stereotypes? Not giving a continental about what other think?

 

 

I am guilty of all of those.

 

 

What I not responsible for is the apathy of miss au pair, the poor vocab of miss teacher, the standing up by miss acting student or the one who simply left and never returned, or the one who agreed to date 2 and the never showed up. I am NOT responsibly for the frankly pathetic people I seem to end up taking on dates, the very same people who are STILL on dating sites.

 

 

What I am guilty of is being trapped in a shyness so nobody really sees who I am because I am tired of being judged as different or non conformist. I am also tired of grovelling at the feet of women hoping they will like me because I will ALWAYS be second best to mr confident good looking.

 

I'll simply go for the pay date route, I can reduce the entire thing into business and I don't have to care about what body language I use or watching her body language.

 

 

I am happy with who I am and see no reason to change that in the REMOTE hope someone I might like will like me, wont happen because I refuse to do all the selling while she sits there and does nothing to sell herself to me.

 

 

Frankly I am tired of being continually painted as being wrong and assuming no responsibility, yes its my fault I didn't grow up like everyone else, didn't like what they liked and I'll pay the price for life, guys learnt about girls, I learnt about politics and history.

 

 

One gets you laid the other makes you a 34yo with no dating future or one where I have accept people I don't want.

 

 

I'd rather have nothing than ever do that.

[chillii]

Why is it then I don't meet anyone single...and why is it the ones I meet on dating sites are so unsuitable, if they were so suitable they wouldn't be single, many have been on those sites for YEARS.

 

 

I think though OLD is a complete waste of time in SA. It might work well elsewhere but I can categorically say it doesn't work here.

 

 

I'll try going out and again and see if anyone notices me but I refuse to make any moves, if they are interested they can talk to me, am well tired of looking like an idiot.

 

 

Ya got that last bit all so wrong , gonna be lonely nights going that way l'm afraid.

You can't just hang around expecting women to come up to you and do all the dirty work. Sure sometimes that could happen but it's gonna be a long time between drinks.

You don't have to put anything on the line or look like an idiot. Casually talking to someone a few seconds on your way past, checking out the reception and feel first of all, doesn't put you out there or mean your trying to chat her up.

That's a later thing if all else feels nice.

 

Back in the day that was my trick , l'd just stop a few seconds if l didn't like the feel or reception pretty well keep on walking to the bar or loo or whatever and go with my night.

There's ways to check all that out first without putting anything what so ever on the line.

Matter of fact that's a great teaser , she usually watches you after wondering wth you didn't try chatting her up you can even pop back and forth later because there's now some familiarity. If things start feeling any better you can spend a bit more time chit chatting next time. Even a casual smile on your way past tells you a lot.

It's good too if you can just mingle about with guys, girls , anyone, or just get talking to a few people.

Edited December 20, 2018 by chillii

[normal person]

Sure but when none are single them what? Nobody even people I know here can tell me where to find single people

 

Have you tried going to age appropriate bars with your friends? If not, why haven't you, or what's stopping you?

 

But also keep in mind that most people aren't single into their mid-thirties. There are some exceptions, and those are the ones you'll have to go for.

 

.....I have an offensive theory but a theory nonetheless that if she is single there is probably a good reason why and to be fair I apply that to myself too.

 

Some people just don't want to settle. We're well aware that that applies to you, but you also have to let it apply to others as well.

 

Responsibility for what exactly? Being different? Refusing to conform to what I consider ridiculous stereotypes? Not giving a continental about what other think?

 

 

I am guilty of all of those.

 

Or "inability to observe/learn/adapt to the nuances of romantic interactions under a facade of self-righteousness."

 

"I'm different."

Cool. You know who else is different? Literally every single person. Everyone has quirks, idiosyncrasies, and offbeat features. Others have demonstrable limitations or shortcomings. Yet most people figure out how to make the most of their situation and find a suitable partner, you're the one using at as an excuse.

 

"I refuse to conform to what I consider ridiculous stereotypes"

You love to toss out this trope that everyone but you is a stereotype. Every woman on Earth only can be attracted to alcoholic, steroid-ridden misogynists, according to you, right? There is no exception, right? Every person out there is a caricature of purposeless youth. Except you, of course.

 

"I don't care what other people think."

Great. Plenty of people also have this attitude and manage to make it work for them. It's oftentimes seen as attractive. So it shouldn't be an excuse.

 

What I not responsible for is the apathy of miss au pair, the poor vocab of miss teacher, the standing up by miss acting student or the one who simply left and never returned, or the one who agreed to date 2 and the never showed up. I am NOT responsibly for the frankly pathetic people I seem to end up taking on dates, the very same people who are STILL on dating sites.

 

Fair enough, but what do you think they'd say about you? It's an honest question that might help you get some perspective.

 

What I am guilty of is being trapped in a shyness so nobody really sees who I am because I am tired of being judged as different or non conformist. I am also tired of grovelling at the feet of women hoping they will like me because I will ALWAYS be second best to mr confident good looking.

 

You're 34, you're a little too old to be "shy." If you want something desirable in life, the odds are you're going to have to experience some discomfort to get it, or even compete for it. That's the way it is.

 

If your response is "why should I have to expend effort to get a woman when they don't have to expend effort for me," then answer is because you want them more than they want you. The world isn't fair. Accept it and get over it already, your inability/unwillingness to realize this is amongst your biggest hurdles.

 

I'll simply go for the pay date route, I can reduce the entire thing into business and I don't have to care about what body language I use or watching her body language.

 

 

I am happy with who I am and see no reason to change that in the REMOTE hope someone I might like will like me, wont happen because I refuse to do all the selling while she sits there and does nothing to sell herself to me.

 

Ok, so what's the problem?

 

 

Frankly I am tired of being continually painted as being wrong and assuming no responsibility, yes its my fault I didn't grow up like everyone else, didn't like what they liked and I'll pay the price for life, guys learnt about girls, I learnt about politics and history.

 

 

One gets you laid the other makes you a 34yo with no dating future or one where I have accept people I don't want.

 

Ugh, this is interminable. The reason you can't get a girlfriend is because you "didn't grow up like everyone else," and "didn't like what they liked?"

 

There are plenty of outliers who don't grow up like everyone else. The world is full of men who didn't grow up playing football and spent their time learning about politics and history. Guess what, now they're politicians and historians and they still managed to find partners. But you want to paint the world as if it's because you spent all your time on more enlightening pursuits, you didn't have time for women, and now you're stuck because at the time you'd rather be smart and true to yourself. Well, the overwhelming majority of people found time for both. Or did one then found time for the other. What's your excuse? You're the only person I've ever heard of who wants to attribute their lack of dating success to this.

 

Also, don't you like/drive/own supercars? Plenty of women like those. Presumably that's something you both like. Plenty of people like history and politics. They have TV channels and endless amounts of websites sustained by all those interested. Maybe you're not so alone. Maybe you're not so different. Just because you don't like football doesn't mean the whole world turns its nose up at you, so stop trying to make it seem that way.

[Garcon1986]

Normal person, ZA Dater has been having the same circular arguments for 3 years straight and some 3 000 posts:

 

- he thinks he has run out of options of meeting single women

- he refuses to do any more changing for women because he's got rejection after rejection

- he does well at work and in his cars club, and even has a platonic woman friend

 

- but he rejects women because he doesn't find the ones near him interesting, isn't willing to travel outside Capetown due to his work schedule, and seems to be attracting the gold-diggers and single mothers. The ones he finds intellectually satisfying (he needs super smart and quite attractive) have been consistently rejecting him

 

- he's fed up of trying to project a warm personality because he's naturally a serious face dude

 

- he's never had sex and never been intimate with a woman.

 

- and he's worn out entire cities of people in the country of Loveshack =p

[Blanco]

I am happy with who I am and see no reason to change that in the REMOTE hope someone I might like will like me, wont happen because I refuse to do all the selling while she sits there and does nothing to sell herself to me.

 

Then stop making these threads.

[Garcon1986]

I've got to give ZA Dater a hand because he comes in at number one, for the ability to make circular arguments and refuse all advice given.

[ZA Dater]

Ya got that last bit all so wrong , gonna be lonely nights going that way l'm afraid.

You can't just hang around expecting women to come up to you and do all the dirty work. Sure sometimes that could happen but it's gonna be a long time between drinks.

You don't have to put anything on the line or look like an idiot. Casually talking to someone a few seconds on your way past, checking out the reception and feel first of all, doesn't put you out there or mean your trying to chat her up.

That's a later thing if all else feels nice.

 

Back in the day that was my trick , l'd just stop a few seconds if l didn't like the feel or reception pretty well keep on walking to the bar or loo or whatever and go with my night.

There's ways to check all that out first without putting anything what so ever on the line.

Matter of fact that's a great teaser , she usually watches you after wondering wth you didn't try chatting her up you can even pop back and forth later because there's now some familiarity. If things start feeling any better you can spend a bit more time chit chatting next time. Even a casual smile on your way past tells you a lot.

It's good too if you can just mingle about with guys, girls , anyone, or just get talking to a few people.

 

Glad you can tell if they are interested. I can't.

[ZA Dater]

Normal person, ZA Dater has been having the same circular arguments for 3 years straight and some 3 000 posts:

 

- he thinks he has run out of options of meeting single women

- he refuses to do any more changing for women because he's got rejection after rejection

- he does well at work and in his cars club, and even has a platonic woman friend

 

- but he rejects women because he doesn't find the ones near him interesting, isn't willing to travel outside Capetown due to his work schedule, and seems to be attracting the gold-diggers and single mothers. The ones he finds intellectually satisfying (he needs super smart and quite attractive) have been consistently rejecting him

 

- he's fed up of trying to project a warm personality because he's naturally a serious face dude

 

- he's never had sex and never been intimate with a woman.

 

- and he's worn out entire cities of people in the country of Loveshack =p

 

 

You left out one thing. I rarely find anyone who interests me

[Garcon1986]

You spend a heck of a lot of calories on Loveshack mate. It's a waste of energy mate.

 

Why not spend the calories exploring the rest of South Africa? You yourself said you don't wander outside of Capetown.

[Garcon1986]

And can you make an attempt to make a new argument you haven't made before?

[ZA Dater]

Have you tried going to age appropriate bars with your friends? If not, why haven't you, or what's stopping you?

 

<SNIP>

 

My friends are either married or single 45+chasing 25yo which thru can get because they are charming and flirt well so going out with them is pointless because I can't compete at all. Addrhr fact they are fun and I might as well it bother.

 

Exactly and there is usually very obvious reasons for the exceptions.

 

You confuse suitable with what they want...very different concepts. I look go many unhappy marriages I see around me and that's very obvious to me.

 

Most women are you can't dispute that one there are universal attractive qualities they want.

 

Do I really care what theu say, not really. Almost all I had no long term interest in.

 

I have done the discomfort and get nowhere. Tried to find some confidence and just couldn't because nothing I tried worked.

 

If they aren't into me why bother, it's certain rejection. It's either yesk or no but never maybe.

 

No they don't the ones that did like cars were not single.

 

Tired of putting my foot in the water for no gain, nothing o do works.

 

Sure I could probably find a girl like me but I dont find them attractive.

Edited December 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator