A lesson

[carhill]

 

I'll just keep myself busy over the holidays and just try and ignore all the couples I will undoubtedly see everywhere.

 

As an experiment, shut off this forum and the internet entirely for the next couple weeks and live your life. Dating generally sucks during the holidays anyway since people are doing family and couple stuff.

 

That's a lesson I learned. Turn off the internet, take a breath of the fresh air, revel in the world's beauty and be thankful to be alive. There are billions on the planet. You attracted responses from 25 of them, now two from me. It's nothing. We're nobody. Flip the switch man, you'll see. Or not, that's the beauty. You have a choice.

[guest569]

As an experiment, shut off this forum and the internet entirely for the next couple weeks and live your life. Dating generally sucks during the holidays anyway since people are doing family and couple stuff.

 

That's a lesson I learned. Turn off the internet, take a breath of the fresh air, revel in the world's beauty and be thankful to be alive. There are billions on the planet. You attracted responses from 25 of them, now two from me. It's nothing. We're nobody. Flip the switch man, you'll see. Or not, that's the beauty. You have a choice.

 

I was actually thinking exactly this earlier today. ZA seems stuck in this cycle of negativity and the forums are enabling it because everything anyone says gets blocked, dismissed, no, no, no. Instead of constantly focusing on how you're not dating because dating is bad and pointless, pick some unrelated task or goal that you know you can achieve. And repeat. You can't depend on others to provide you with confidence. Sure it feels good to be loved and desired but don't ever depend on it. Setting goals and smashing them you can build your confidence back up. You need to find it within yourself.

 

What do you think? Get off this negative roundabout.

[Wallysbears]

Well if nothing else a lack of success has made me realise that perhaps I need to severely compromise and find what I want in different way in the sense of maybe friends is a better option for me.

 

 

Can never find any who want to talk about those things, most are too self absorbed and those who aren't are too apathetic.

 

 

Interesting personality. Ok I tell you exactly what I tell them.

 

 

"Hi I am ABC I run a variety of companies in the finance and property sector, I am busy working on a suspense romance novel which is currently nearing completion, though I still need to refine it. I don't have much down time but I run a fairly exclusive club which goes to various venues for lunch. I drive Italian supercars from time to time and write reviews on them. I have a keen interest in world affairs and politics."

 

 

What is not interesting about that? It never ever works not matter how I try sell myself. I am convinced it doesn't work because people don't relate to it.

 

 

Awkward only happens when there is absolutely NO common ground which there never is because either I don't relate to them or more often than not they don't relate to me. OR its not fun enough for them. OR its because I don't sit in the bar or dance around a club.

 

 

You are right I can transfer skills and the first of which is to remove everyone I have no interest in instantly. Just like they weed me out I am doing the same. OH NO you cant do that! You must give miss 37yo single mom a chance! Ok, I'll drop the sarcasm.

 

 

I am always going to stick the core that is me but equally I am always going to be hampered by things I cannot control, that being the likes of what women actually want.

 

 

K isn't going to do that because like me she has very few friends.

 

If this is the message you send to women when introducing yourself/attempting to approach them via OLD, then it isn't surprising that you don't get many replies.

 

This message has ZERO to do with the woman and is 100% about YOU.

 

Not only that, but it sounds very pretentious.

 

Why not mention something about THEM or their profile? Why not ask what THEY like?

 

Your message is dull and comes across as conceited. It would be a put off to many women. It also says you have no free time because of ALL the things you are involved with and that you have a heavy focus on money and prestige. None of which are very charming.

[ZA Dater]

If this is the message you send to women when introducing yourself/attempting to approach them via OLD, then it isn't surprising that you don't get many replies.

 

This message has ZERO to do with the woman and is 100% about YOU.

 

Not only that, but it sounds very pretentious.

 

Why not mention something about THEM or their profile? Why not ask what THEY like?

 

Your message is dull and comes across as conceited. It would be a put off to many women. It also says you have no free time because of ALL the things you are involved with and that you have a heavy focus on money and prestige. None of which are very charming.

 

Here I thought I was supposed to sell myself...

[Wallysbears]

Here I thought I was supposed to sell myself...

 

Perhaps, when initially approaching a woman you should try something more engaging?

 

Ask her a question, give her a compliment, mention a common interest?

[Blanco]

when I see the same people over and over again on OLD then I begin to wonder, who is really the issue...me or them

 

Nice try. Still you.

[Mike800]

Well, see that's the part you don't get. People can be equally unattractive for any number of reasons having nothing to do with weight, like height, face, personality, awkwardness, stupidity. Fat women think a lot of men are unattractive just like anyone else. Just because you're think doesn't mean you're attractive to thin women. You are just as unattractive to the women you are disappointed you can't attract as these overweight women are to you. They are the only ones answering you, so they are your overall attractiveness equal. That's your level, for whatever reason.

 

Looks aren’t the end all be all of dating value.

 

The op’s problem is his personality and entitlement not looks.

 

If the op was as charming and funny as he claims he is I guarantee he’d be able to attract some women he finds physically attractive.

 

I’m an average looking dude and have dated average to extremely hot looking women and it’s not because I’m a stud it’s because I simply listen to them try to connect and have fun.

[elaine567]

If the op was as charming and funny as he claims he is I guarantee he’d be able to attract some women he finds physically attractive.

 

.

The OP has never claimed he is charming and funny, in fact he has claimed he is the exact opposite of "charming and funny".

[Mike800]

The OP has never claimed he is charming and funny, in fact he has claimed he is the exact opposite of "charming and funny".

 

Oh ok lol well then I can’t help him..

 

You have to bring something to the table..

 

Nobody wants to be with someone who’s not fun to be around.

 

 

And it doesn’t have to be life of the party guy..I’m more laid back funny but it works for me..

 

Women aren’t as shallow or picky as the op thinks if he simply got out of his own f’in head and tried to have fun he’d have better results.

[Garcon1986]

Any advice that hasn't been given out yet for improving your charm and humor? I'm out of ideas.

[ZA Dater]

Any advice that hasn't been given out yet for improving your charm and humor? I'm out of ideas.

 

 

 

Well I guess its my fault too I have a dry sense of humour. Charm, never really had that. I do have a get things done mantra but then its well known I use work and hobbies to hide away from being single and having no dating prospects.

 

 

I wouldn't say charm and humour are the only problems, I just simply don't find many people interesting and apparently the feeling is mutual so at least I have one mutual feeling....

[ZA Dater]

Oh ok lol well then I can’t help him..

 

You have to bring something to the table..

 

Nobody wants to be with someone who’s not fun to be around.

 

 

And it doesn’t have to be life of the party guy..I’m more laid back funny but it works for me..

 

Women aren’t as shallow or picky as the op thinks if he simply got out of his own f’in head and tried to have fun he’d have better results.

 

 

 

Sorry friend its not "thinks" its experienced. I am glad your experiences are better. Enjoy.

 

 

I bring others things to the table, they are just not valued at all but that's ok, it doesn't make me better or worse just different. If different isn't like well then so be it to, my point of sheep mentality in dating is then proved fairly comprehensively. So adamant I am right about this I am actually thinking of proving it using me, a male model and a camera. I'll do the first approach and get rejected, he will then do the same approach using the same words and I can assure you he wont be rejected. Looks buy you slack of that there is no doubt, none at all.

 

 

In fact I pretty much proved the above in my Tinder experiment.

 

 

Yea cool everyone loves the funny guy even when they have little to add to a conversation but he must be cool because he is funny. Yea, I spent decades competing with the funny guys, I am pragmatic realistic guy but hey its them leaving with the girls so I suppose BS really does sell better than realism.

 

 

Oh and fun, what is that exactly, I still haven't quite figured it out but I'd guess it goes with funny like milk goes with cream and coffee with milk.

 

 

Its all good really I know my place in the pit of dating where the best I can attract are the one the "funny, fun" guys don't want or perhaps want for one night and no more. So yea you know what perhaps its better to move sideways, sit on the bench because just maybe the game is better to watch than it is to play.

 

 

Oh and yes for those wondering this me being humorous and unserious.

[Blanco]

Maybe that's your problem. I have a good sense of humor and love some good old fashioned dry wit. That post isn't funny, it's just bitter, angry, passive aggressive, and borderline condescending in tone.

[ZA Dater]

Any advice that hasn't been given out yet for improving your charm and humor? I'm out of ideas.

 

 

 

I'll ask you this question. Did you feel incentivised to make changes? Did you feel "ok if I do this I might be able to get that"?

 

 

I want to try and understand the advice that's being given in the context of the fundamentals which cannot be changed. Those being I am nearly 35 with no dating experience. It appears to me and correct me if I am wrong no matter what I choose to do I may well be rejected based on the fundamentals?

 

 

Did you feel the changes actually had any sort of benefit and if so how long did it take for those benefits to arrive? Would you say you are happier now that you bent over backwards to accommodate what society apparently wants.

 

 

And the kicker, are you dating people you want to date or people you are forcing yourself to like?

 

 

These same questions apply to all. I would be most interested in the answers.

 

 

Why do I ask these questions, well its simple I can either improve for me or I can improve in the hope I become attractive to others but there is no certainty I will be anymore more attractive. I am vastly different person to who was I was 3 years ago, I have a bit more confidence am slightly more outgoing and I think I look better.

 

 

The reality is I no matter what I do I probably wont be able to date people I like so do I go through this whole apparent process bearing in mind I don't have years because already I don't attract anyone I want. Do the ends really justify the means?

[Garcon1986]

I was a normal college student who used to be so mad at women that I slammed bagels through the bagel slicer because I had such female frustration. I had no skills in my early 20s in college, and women were just passing me by. My introduction to college was a couple hooking up right in front of me, and my reaction was to get scared and pretend that I was sleeping, when all I wanted to do was join in.

 

 

My achievement in college was rejecting two women that could have been great relationships, because I didn't have the confidence to pursue them back after I noticed that they liked me. I had two majors, some book knowledge, and a bunch of other things - but lacked the crucial life skill of people skills. I still decided that I would make it into medical school, and I got in. Medical school was a crushing defeat, because I actually failed out of first year when I was unable to study and memorize hard enough. I again rejected one woman who could have been great, and never developed confidence even 7-8 years later. I was ok with patients, but never in the dating scene. I was still fuming about women as you are. Beautiful women passing me by.

 

 

I realize my biggest failure was to heed the advice that you should build yourself before selling yourself as a mate in the dating game, otherwise you have nothing to offer. The correct advice would have been to build both at the same time, so when an amazing woman comes along, you can snap up the opportunity. This is my biggest regret in life.

 

 

At this point I have a nice job, live in an awesome apartment, get to play with babies for a salary, and have every skill under the sun except dating women. What to do. Every skill under the sun was not enough to impress a woman because she wanted social confidence, charm, and humor, of which I was only able to produce artificially at the job and amongst friends.

 

 

In the first year of residency (graduate school training to become a doctor), I finally discovered that there was a thing called a dating coach. I read their encyclopedia after spending $1600, and realized there was this giant room full of skills that I never learned, called the dating game. It was the most uncomfortable thing in the world. I was trained as a biochemist, and found it incredibly painful to think like a woman and share things that women like. It was incredibly painful to watch more and more women pass me by. So, I built up my confidence, and started on the sequential approach to dating, starting with people watching, then going into the store to talk to the cashiers, then asking women out.

 

 

I next signed up for online dating sites, and got incredibly frustrated because I learned quickly that everybody accentuates their shallow side online. I resorted to a photo studio to make pictures of me. I desperately wanted hot girls, and was turned down by every woman at my dance club that I asked out, and literally kicked out of my Irish dance course for being a creep. That was devastating. I later figured out that they admitted every other guy but me because I made them uncomfortable.

 

 

I said to myself, I am ready as I can be to have a family. I have the training to own a kid, I do it for a job for god sakes. I just don't have any women that like me. So then, for the three years I was in residency, I dated and dated and dated. I was so desperate at one point, that I even accidentally talked to a police officer posing as a hooker. The sense got into me before I agreed to a meeting, and I cut that off before revealing my location.

 

 

I said I will date a woman I like, on my terms, no matter what the mental cost and no matter what the physical pain. So I finally met this physical therapist, who had the right combination of wit, brains, beauty, and mild manner. She looked like Emma Watson. I just didn't have the confidence to make out with her on the first date. I went home elated that I was able to date Emma Watson material. Sadly she rejected me after both her parents died, and now she won't talk to me. Through this time my degree of determination to get off explicit movies and R rated stuff like 50 shades of gray waxed and waned, and my expectations of a date got distorted.

 

 

I then moved, and started doing my next graduate school 3 year period. I dated a rather large woman who had a neurological issue just to get the experience, and had my first sexual experience at 26. It wasn't good because I couldn't keep the erection. Broke up because I found out she was sleeping with other guys and doing drugs. I then dated a lovely Chinese girl - physically fit, smart, has her own job. Two problems - this relationship was long distance and she, despite all my efforts, had constant pain with sex. That made me feel rejected on multiple levels, so I broke up with this one after she stayed up one night ruffling through my emails without my knowledge. At this point I tried to date an astrophysicist, but she point blank rejected me after I badgered her, and told me, I just don't have any feelings to you whatsoever. Quite a low blow. I then met a wonderful Ukrainian girl at work. She was beautiful, smart, mild mannered, and had mild mannered parents. I was elated and over the moon that I could date someone with all these characteristics. She was definitely a classic 8-9/10 if you use those numbers. I was ready to marry her, but my parents came in and started getting a hang of her personality. My ex texted me in the middle of an international trip with the Ukrainian girlfriend, then I found out that she total lost trust in me. I would spend most days fearing when I would have to be forced to choose between my GF and my parents, and when I would have to answer to being disloyal. I had deleted all my dating accounts and all my profiles, but yet here is my GF accusing me of texting other women every time I go to the restaurant restroom. I tried to apologize but it was no use. I didn't even initiate the text with my ex. I tried to explain that my parents were on her side, but she steadfastly said that everybody needs to accept her just the way she is. Granted my parents did a horrible thing and told her all the things they disliked about her. My health deteriorated from the constant fighting, and I broke up on the basis of being unable to reconcile and the constant worry about being accused of infidelity. I tried to tell her that I had not touched a single woman during my relationship with my Ukrainian ex but she refused to believe me.

 

 

I'm now recovered and have had six years of catch up, and now know that I can actually find the date of my dreams. I've had horrible dating experiences happen to me and learned from them. I started out as a reject Asian very much like EthanBlack, angry about the world. I almost had a police run in, that's how desperate I was. I got kicked out of my favourite past-time in the whole wide world - Irish dancing. Now I'm determined to make women around me comfortable and become the life of the party. These days, the women around me adore me, and I am the life of the party amongst my colleagues.

 

 

I can't change the fact that the women around me are beautiful but only want hot hunks, soldiers, police officers, or firefighters for their dates. I have learned the serenity to accept that hot women want certain physical standards and racial standards, and will refuse to change. I have tried my hardest to sell what I'm good at - while improving my appearance, personality, and image. These days I remember my old echocardiography colleague with fond memories - she's 35 years my senior, but she's stunningly beautiful, lived in 3 countries, grew up an Army child in Italy, and has amazing wit, incredible medical knowledge, and is a proud mother of three. Spectacular woman - I would have paid money to be born her year and be her husband.

 

 

Today I seek out the woman with the best brains and an ideally kind heart, positive outlook, and who isn't out to manipulate me. I still have requirements for physical attractiveness which are generally summed up as 6-10/10. I don't get sad anymore that a 10/10 lady won't give me the time of day. I have only one regret, but all the women I despise, I am now too old to hate. I've let them go. I look forward with the fond memories of the past, and have an encyclopedia of dating experience now. I don't feel guilty that I'm still single at 32, I just work hard at it, and laugh as much as I can along the way. I'm sure all those women who rejected me, who number in the hundreds now, couldn't care less if I exist. My revenge is to live a better life than them and refuse to give them the time of day when I become famous. I have a few more white hairs and a few more wrinkles, but I know how to make Mr Bean jokes and talk about the guy who once accidentally bought a horse. I can claim to know women better than I did six years ago. I even dated an Italian supermodel actor and spoke broken Italian with good Spanish to her. She told me I was perfect, but I had to turn it down because my family would never accept stepkids. Racism on their end. Not bad for an Asian guy who started out with no social skills.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Garcon1986

[ZA Dater]

I was a normal college student who used to be so mad at women that I slammed bagels through the bagel slicer because I had such female frustration. I had no skills in my early 20s in college, and women were just passing me by. My introduction to college was a couple hooking up right in front of me, and my reaction was to get scared and pretend that I was sleeping, when all I wanted to do was join in.

 

 

My achievement in college was rejecting two women that could have been great relationships, because I didn't have the confidence to pursue them back after I noticed that they liked me. I had two majors, some book knowledge, and a bunch of other things - but lacked the crucial life skill of people skills. I still decided that I would make it into medical school, and I got in. Medical school was a crushing defeat, because I actually failed out of first year when I was unable to study and memorize hard enough. I again rejected one woman who could have been great, and never developed confidence even 7-8 years later. I was ok with patients, but never in the dating scene. I was still fuming about women as you are. Beautiful women passing me by.

 

 

I realize my biggest failure was to heed the advice that you should build yourself before selling yourself as a mate in the dating game, otherwise you have nothing to offer. The correct advice would have been to build both at the same time, so when an amazing woman comes along, you can snap up the opportunity. This is my biggest regret in life.

 

 

At this point I have a nice job, live in an awesome apartment, get to play with babies for a salary, and have every skill under the sun except dating women. What to do. Every skill under the sun was not enough to impress a woman because she wanted social confidence, charm, and humor, of which I was only able to produce artificially at the job and amongst friends.

 

 

In the first year of residency (graduate school training to become a doctor), I finally discovered that there was a thing called a dating coach. I read their encyclopedia after spending $1600, and realized there was this giant room full of skills that I never learned, called the dating game. It was the most uncomfortable thing in the world. I was trained as a biochemist, and found it incredibly painful to think like a woman and share things that women like. It was incredibly painful to watch more and more women pass me by. So, I built up my confidence, and started on the sequential approach to dating, starting with people watching, then going into the store to talk to the cashiers, then asking women out.

 

 

I next signed up for online dating sites, and got incredibly frustrated because I learned quickly that everybody accentuates their shallow side online. I resorted to a photo studio to make pictures of me. I desperately wanted hot girls, and was turned down by every woman at my dance club that I asked out, and literally kicked out of my Irish dance course for being a creep. That was devastating. I later figured out that they admitted every other guy but me because I made them uncomfortable.

 

 

I said to myself, I am ready as I can be to have a family. I have the training to own a kid, I do it for a job for god sakes. I just don't have any women that like me. So then, for the three years I was in residency, I dated and dated and dated. I was so desperate at one point, that I even accidentally talked to a police officer posing as a hooker. The sense got into me before I agreed to a meeting, and I cut that off before revealing my location.

 

 

I said I will date a woman I like, on my terms, no matter what the mental cost and no matter what the physical pain. So I finally met this physical therapist, who had the right combination of wit, brains, beauty, and mild manner. She looked like Emma Watson. I just didn't have the confidence to make out with her on the first date. I went home elated that I was able to date Emma Watson material. Sadly she rejected me after both her parents died, and now she won't talk to me. Through this time my degree of determination to get off explicit movies and R rated stuff like 50 shades of gray waxed and waned, and my expectations of a date got distorted.

 

 

I then moved, and started doing my next graduate school 3 year period. I dated a rather large woman who had a neurological issue just to get the experience, and had my first sexual experience at 26. It wasn't good because I couldn't keep the erection. Broke up because I found out she was sleeping with other guys and doing drugs. I then dated a lovely Chinese girl - physically fit, smart, has her own job. Two problems - this relationship was long distance and she, despite all my efforts, had constant pain with sex. That made me feel rejected on multiple levels, so I broke up with this one after she stayed up one night ruffling through my emails without my knowledge. At this point I tried to date an astrophysicist, but she point blank rejected me after I badgered her, and told me, I just don't have any feelings to you whatsoever. Quite a low blow. I then met a wonderful Ukrainian girl at work. She was beautiful, smart, mild mannered, and had mild mannered parents. I was elated and over the moon that I could date someone with all these characteristics. She was definitely a classic 8-9/10 if you use those numbers. I was ready to marry her, but my parents came in and started getting a hang of her personality. My ex texted me in the middle of an international trip with the Ukrainian girlfriend, then I found out that she total lost trust in me. I would spend most days fearing when I would have to be forced to choose between my GF and my parents, and when I would have to answer to being disloyal. I had deleted all my dating accounts and all my profiles, but yet here is my GF accusing me of texting other women every time I go to the restaurant restroom. I tried to apologize but it was no use. I didn't even initiate the text with my ex. I tried to explain that my parents were on her side, but she steadfastly said that everybody needs to accept her just the way she is. Granted my parents did a horrible thing and told her all the things they disliked about her. My health deteriorated from the constant fighting, and I broke up on the basis of being unable to reconcile and the constant worry about being accused of infidelity. I tried to tell her that I had not touched a single woman during my relationship with my Ukrainian ex but she refused to believe me.

 

 

I'm now recovered and have had six years of catch up, and now know that I can actually find the date of my dreams. I've had horrible dating experiences happen to me and learned from them. I started out as a reject Asian very much like EthanBlack, angry about the world. I almost had a police run in, that's how desperate I was. I got kicked out of my favourite past-time in the whole wide world - Irish dancing. Now I'm determined to make women around me comfortable and become the life of the party. These days, the women around me adore me, and I am the life of the party amongst my colleagues.

 

 

I can't change the fact that the women around me are beautiful but only want hot hunks, soldiers, police officers, or firefighters for their dates. I have learned the serenity to accept that hot women want certain physical standards and racial standards, and will refuse to change. I have tried my hardest to sell what I'm good at - while improving my appearance, personality, and image. These days I remember my old echocardiography colleague with fond memories - she's 35 years my senior, but she's stunningly beautiful, lived in 3 countries, grew up an Army child in Italy, and has amazing wit, incredible medical knowledge, and is a proud mother of three. Spectacular woman - I would have paid money to be born her year and be her husband.

 

 

Today I seek out the woman with the best brains and an ideally kind heart, positive outlook, and who isn't out to manipulate me. I still have requirements for physical attractiveness which are generally summed up as 6-10/10. I don't get sad anymore that a 10/10 lady won't give me the time of day. I have only one regret, but all the women I despise, I am now too old to hate. I've let them go. I look forward with the fond memories of the past, and have an encyclopedia of dating experience now. I don't feel guilty that I'm still single at 32, I just work hard at it, and laugh as much as I can along the way. I'm sure all those women who rejected me, who number in the hundreds now, couldn't care less if I exist. My revenge is to live a better life than them and refuse to give them the time of day when I become famous. I have a few more white hairs and a few more wrinkles, but I know how to make Mr Bean jokes and talk about the guy who once accidentally bought a horse. I can claim to know women better than I did six years ago. I even dated an Italian supermodel actor and spoke broken Italian with good Spanish to her. She told me I was perfect, but I had to turn it down because my family would never accept stepkids. Racism on their end. Not bad for an Asian guy who started out with no social skills.

 

 

 

It appears we are very much on the same page. Lot of me wishes I had had some of those good experiences you have had. That's the thing you can to some extent balance the bad against the good.

 

 

Kudos for being honest enough to admit that a dating coach was not the be all and end all answer.

 

 

Lot of me just thinks all we can do is conjure up the best experiences we can even if they are fleeting experiences.

 

 

I can bring out some skills if I want to, in fact I can be quite good at it if I want to but honestly there isn't a lot of incentive for me to present like that. Its not like I go to work, chase a deal and work and work and I get the reward of completing it well.

 

 

That's always been the thing I can do a lot of what is mentioned here, I can do a lot of the advice which is give but its needs to be brought out of me, certain people do and certain people don't, certain people I feel comfortable with and others not.

 

 

What I did three years ago was decide to be better at things, try be more social, ok I am still not going out and I don't really have any friends either but I do have more confidence, when I do go out for dinners on my own etc. I do look around, I see how people interact and I try pick things up from that.

 

 

My problem really is I am beyond the point of believing I can accomplish anything at dating and maybe its because the good experiences I have had were VERY good and its actually impossible to replicate them and after those, well everything else is a bit of a let down. So I am constantly chasing what is VERY hard to get with the emotional battering which comes with that. Its also why I steadfastly believe people should never settle ever but I understand why some do, something ok is better than nothing at all.

 

 

How I perceive myself and how other perceive me probably doesn't match up either.

[Garcon1986]

Well here you go waffling again. Can you make the choice to not grumble about women, or go at it full throttle? I think we would all like to see you make one choice or the other, and not stay in between.

[ZA Dater]

Well here you go waffling again. Can you make the choice to not grumble about women, or go at it full throttle? I think we would all like to see you make one choice or the other, and not stay in between.

 

Why? Given the choice I'd rather avoid any further rejection.

[Blanco]

Then it's settled. No more grumbling.

[elaine567]

Kudos for being honest enough to admit that a dating coach was not the be all and end all answer.

 

 

You missed the point, the dating coach opened his eyes to the reality of dating.

 

there was this giant room full of skills that I never learned, called the dating game

 

 

You are in a similar place. The skills of dating, will not suddenly arrive on your lap.

You, atm are messing about and failing at Lego, yet you say you want to build cathedrals... but you are putting no real effort in to learning how to build them.

 

Time to put in some legwork like Garcon1986 did if you want to get anywhere.

[ZA Dater]

You missed the point, the dating coach opened his eyes to the reality of dating.

 

 

 

 

You are in a similar place. The skills of dating, will not suddenly arrive on your lap.

You, atm are messing about and failing at Lego, yet you say you want to build cathedrals... but you are putting no real effort in to learning how to build them.

 

Time to put in some legwork like Garcon1986 did if you want to get anywhere.

 

Yeh the dating coach was so fantastic that his luck appears to be exactly the same as it was before.

 

I am at the point where I'll take the forum advice and compromise.

[Garcon1986]

I'd say I'm not married, but I have had so many awesome dates that I would not have had otherwise without the coach opening my eyes.

[NuevoYorko]

Ask yourself one thing: Why.

 

 

Why must I be like everyone else, why must I say the same things, why must I act the same as everyone else? Why?

 

 

You don't have to act the same as everyone else. You just have to accept that the way you act is evidently not attractive to other people.

 

Maybe you can understand it if I use an example that seems to resonate with you: fat women.

 

You find fat women unattractive, and you are not alone in this. Fat women have a much more difficult time dating than women with svelte figures.

 

But ... why must they be like everyone else? Why must they have a slim body, why must they have a small waist?

 

The answer for them is the same as it is for you: They don't have to; BUT, the onus is not on men in general to start finding fat women attractive. The onus is on the women to accept the reality that it is going to be more difficult for them to find a large dating pool than if they had a different body type. Which, like your personality, can be altered if a person chose to do so.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I do NOT think that anyone should feel they need to change themselves, body or personality, to please or attract others. I am just pointing out the fact that it's not the responsibility of others to like any of us the way we are.

 

You can choose to remain exactly as you are, and thus be choosing to have the exact same dating pool that you have today as well. I'm sure there are women who in fact will find you attractive just as you are; it's just a small pool and harder to find. Tinder will be the exactly worst place to find anyone who is not 1) quite physically attractive and / or 2) able to function socially on a very high level.

[ZA Dater]

You don't have to act the same as everyone else. You just have to accept that the way you act is evidently not attractive to other people.

 

Maybe you can understand it if I use an example that seems to resonate with you: fat women.

 

You find fat women unattractive, and you are not alone in this. Fat women have a much more difficult time dating than women with svelte figures.

 

But ... why must they be like everyone else? Why must they have a slim body, why must they have a small waist?

 

The answer for them is the same as it is for you: They don't have to; BUT, the onus is not on men in general to start finding fat women attractive. The onus is on the women to accept the reality that it is going to be more difficult for them to find a large dating pool than if they had a different body type. Which, like your personality, can be altered if a person chose to do so.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I do NOT think that anyone should feel they need to change themselves, body or personality, to please or attract others. I am just pointing out the fact that it's not the responsibility of others to like any of us the way we are.

 

You can choose to remain exactly as you are, and thus be choosing to have the exact same dating pool that you have today as well. I'm sure there are women who in fact will find you attractive just as you are; it's just a small pool and harder to find. Tinder will be the exactly worst place to find anyone who is not 1) quite physically attractive and / or 2) able to function socially on a very high level.

 

 

 

Point taken but Id wager its a lot harder to fundamentally change a personality than it is to loose weight.

 

 

See here I have an issue, I was told to be this, do that, act like that and put on a general sham and my pool was not better then than it is now and as a person I felt worse about myself. Where do you draw the line, completely alter yourself and feel bad about who you are in the HOPE someone might like that fake personality?

 

 

Where is the compromise here?

 

 

Care to explain what "function socially on a high level" actually means?

 

 

If I could say "ok do that and you get this opportunity" then its an easier choice and a compromise to handle. Again today I was out having lunch and looked around me, its all the same really, the same charm, the same wit, the same apparent humour, essentially its all the same thinking and there is some sort of pattern to it. None of it makes a heck of a lot of sense to me at all but the choice to me seems simple, try be like that look like a fool, get nowhere. Keep doing what I am doing, feel lonely, but not feel like a fool and get nowhere.

[ZA Dater]

I'd say I'm not married, but I have had so many awesome dates that I would not have had otherwise without the coach opening my eyes.

 

 

 

I'll agree to disagree about their effectiveness. The only thing which would interest me would be how said dating coach proposes one beats the odds when one isn't physically desirable....especially seeing that's all the matters to most.