A lesson

[ZA Dater]

Does K know that you are single and searching, and is she willing to refer girls to you?

 

 

Seriously you haven't read this stuff because you call it groveling? A community of an entire people can't all be groveling. There is an entire community of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, who all struggle with dating. While they are different because they actually have a psychological disorder, they all share one thing in common - refusal or failure to interpret social cues in a dating context. Many of them have achieved wild successes by acknowledging their weakness and working around it. You are now discounting advice that you haven't even contemplated yet.

 

When you are further down the road in dating a woman, you are right, you don't have to show all the interest. At the front door you have to be the eager one in today's society.

 

I'm calling you out for failure to try a brand new door that you haven't even tried yet (you said it yourself).

 

And what about smiling to new colleagues and new acquaintances? You can't even do that?

 

 

 

You completely missed the point. My grovelling comment had nothing to do with the reading material you suggested.

 

 

Never said I didn't smile at people, said on numerous occasions that I do try this from time to time.

 

 

No K doesn't refer anyone to me because we already established in another thread started by someone else that this does not happen in the modern world.

 

 

My grovel comment was more to do with the fact if they don't show any sort of interest i.e. I take them to dinner and they have nothing interesting to say I am not going to beg to see them again. Its that simple really.

 

 

I think irrespective of condition MILLIONS of people battle with dating and it would be interesting to know whether this has increased since the likes of Tinder.

 

 

Simply put I don't have much of a social life so its unsurprising I battle at dating. Cant find too many people interested in supercars, writing, politics and current affairs. Nobody I have ever taken out has bothered to show me any interest at all, its just about them which frankly I may as well have paid a date BUT ironically when I did that then all they wanted to know was about me. So what gives really.

 

 

I am happy with what I do in life, the people I care about, the things that interest me, the objectives I have, the things I would like to achieve, the things I have achieved. Here is a classic case in point, I like to help people, for example today I went to an orphanage and delivered hampers to 50 kids. I once sat down at a date and mentioned things like this, she wasn't even the slightest bit interested.

 

 

What this forum has taught me is to be incredibly strong when faced with the indifferent views of others.

 

 

Again this morning K and I sat for 2 hours chatting about anything and everything. I simply cannot find that with anyone else, its next to impossible.

 

 

Someone asked if I had given up how to hope, in a way I have because its just seemingly impossible to find that, just yesterday I sat with a friend at lunch, what was he doing, commenting on the bust size of some of the patrons, which to me is crass. I'd rather be interested in what she believes in than how big her .... are. But again that's probably because I have no experience.

 

 

The best help I have ever get from people are those like K who just accept me for me and encourage me to be a better me. The very worst help are those who try and force me to conform to what they think I should be because of some imaginary carrot so I try and inevitably someone else gets that I am left with nothing but

 

 

1: being rejected

2: the knowledge I wasn't me but some fake person.

 

 

Models, sure IF I had confidence, IF I felt I had something to offer them then maybe but NEVER has anyone really made me feel like I have anything to offer them, well ANYONE I LIKED.

[NuevoYorko]

No I haven't. I just never meet anyone interested in me so I just don't bother most of the time. Tired of grovelling to try and make people like me.

 

Huh??? You have a lot of problems around dating. You may have the most and longest threads on this site of anybody. Dubious distinction, but anyway. Why would checking out a group that might offer a different perspective than you have received here be "groveling"?

 

I cannot fathom why a guy should show all the interest all of the time.

Well, there you go demonstrating one of your social issues.

 

The person who is interested is the one who needs to show their interest. If a woman is interested in you, she ought to show it. Granted, society has taught us that men do the pursuing, so you have that working against you. Regardless, your statement quoted above seems to imply that women "should" be showing interest in you.

 

But ... they are not interested in you.

 

This is the root of your problem. You are entitled to nothing from any woman on earth. None of us are, unless we are in a relationship with them. So if you want to be close to a woman the onus is on you to 1) make your interest known and 2) to be attractive to her.

 

You have full control over #1. You have ongoing issues with #2. I actually feel for you; we all know how crappy rejection feels and seems like you've had more than your share. Your evident sense of entitlement gets me off of your team most of the time.

 

Here is a classic case in point. Met someone nice on tinder, chatted to her, made plans to meet up, she cancelled on the day, ok she says we can reschedule. Then she goes quiet, I reach out and I get blocked.

 

Tell me how any of that is my fault? I was only but nice and this has happened twice.

 

Well that was rude of her. Or, perhaps you said or behaved in a way that gave her pause. Bottom line, she did not care to meet you. Happens all the time. You are not entitled to have anyone "give you a chance" and for whatever reason this one decided she did not want to meet you. Her choice. You seem to think women should meet you simply because you are "kind." I believe you are a good guy, but if they already know they are not interested in you, NO. They should not give you a chance. What would be the incentive? You are probably one of dozens, if not more, of good people that some woman connects with online and whom she knows are not of interest to her.

 

You have no problem dismissing women out of hand when you know they're not what you're looking for and I am supportive of that. The problem is when you come here complaining that women you like aren't giving you a chance though for some reason they "owe" that to you - while you don't "owe" it to the multitudes of fat single mothers who show interest in you. That's making it difficult for many to be on your side here.

 

So is your oft expressed belief that you are somehow "better" than an overweight single mother. You're not interested in dating one, fine, but it's not because you deserve someone "better." That's just wrong thinking and a huge turnoff as well.

 

Bottom line is you are not attractive to women you like, even though you are not fat and you are a kind person. Evidently more is required to increase your attractiveness quotient. You can do a lot to improve upon that but you'd have to get a little humility and teachability first.

[Garcon1986]

Accepting who you are and accepting to need to teach yourself to constantly be a better man are two different things. That is by the way, how many relationships fail in the real world.

 

I accept that you are the most extremely stubborn hard headed bloke I have ever encountered. However, I don't accept your point of view that you should stay where you are and grumble about women rejecting you. Unless of course, that is your happy place.

 

You can always be your own personality and forge your own path. However, you've mentioned topics that I know many women like to chat about. You still don't get dates. That's because you don't project an interesting personality to prospective singles, who are programmed to reject people who aren't immediately interesting in some form or fashion. I can see your point of view of being righteous, and having all the citizens of Loveshack criticize your point of view, and then you having more faith in your way of doing things.

 

If that achieves happiness for you, then by all means go for it. You can make that adult decision. However intimacy is a learned skill. Dating is a learned skill. The more we try to show you to the light, the more you try to stay in the darkness and grumble about women.

 

You have identified that you have a resting grumpy face, and you have identified that you are awkward around prospective dates. These are two very changeable things. You are right that you should never grovel for love. However, you still think that working on these two completely fixable things is against your core belief system. We've tried to give you advice but you have been steadfastly denying the advice or having rejections and falling flat on your face.

 

You can transfer your professional social skills to dating. It takes work but many who have come before have done it. You should be failing and then trying something different. But you've given up.

 

If you can say you can sit happily where you are, that's great, announce it, and we will stop badgering you. If not, the light is this way. Come with us and see how cool it can be to gradually improve your dating skills. What is preventing you from explicitly asking K to go around with you and be your wingwoman on real dating experiences? How about breaking that social norm?

[ZA Dater]

Huh??? You have a lot of problems around dating. You may have the most and longest threads on this site of anybody. Dubious distinction, but anyway. Why would checking out a group that might offer a different perspective than you have received here be "groveling"?

 

Well, there you go demonstrating one of your social issues.

 

The person who is interested is the one who needs to show their interest. If a woman is interested in you, she ought to show it. Granted, society has taught us that men do the pursuing, so you have that working against you. Regardless, your statement quoted above seems to imply that women "should" be showing interest in you.

 

But ... they are not interested in you.

 

This is the root of your problem. You are entitled to nothing from any woman on earth. None of us are, unless we are in a relationship with them. So if you want to be close to a woman the onus is on you to 1) make your interest known and 2) to be attractive to her.

 

You have full control over #1. You have ongoing issues with #2. I actually feel for you; we all know how crappy rejection feels and seems like you've had more than your share. Your evident sense of entitlement gets me off of your team most of the time.

 

 

 

Well that was rude of her. Or, perhaps you said or behaved in a way that gave her pause. Bottom line, she did not care to meet you. Happens all the time. You are not entitled to have anyone "give you a chance" and for whatever reason this one decided she did not want to meet you. Her choice. You seem to think women should meet you simply because you are "kind." I believe you are a good guy, but if they already know they are not interested in you, NO. They should not give you a chance. What would be the incentive? You are probably one of dozens, if not more, of good people that some woman connects with online and whom she knows are not of interest to her.

 

You have no problem dismissing women out of hand when you know they're not what you're looking for and I am supportive of that. The problem is when you come here complaining that women you like aren't giving you a chance though for some reason they "owe" that to you - while you don't "owe" it to the multitudes of fat single mothers who show interest in you. That's making it difficult for many to be on your side here.

 

So is your oft expressed belief that you are somehow "better" than an overweight single mother. You're not interested in dating one, fine, but it's not because you deserve someone "better." That's just wrong thinking and a huge turnoff as well.

 

Bottom line is you are not attractive to women you like, even though you are not fat and you are a kind person. Evidently more is required to increase your attractiveness quotient. You can do a lot to improve upon that but you'd have to get a little humility and teachability first.

 

 

Why would I make my interest know if I know I will be rejected, why do you think I go the friend zone route more often now than I ever did before. For exactly that reason and expressing interest is a nothing term to me because what does it even mean, I show it by taking an interest in them as people.

 

2 is basically impossible and is directly related to "incentive" that's exactly the issue I have, I have to offer an incentive but what incentive am I being offered? I understand most guys simply want a hot body but I want more than that, perhaps if they can actually demonstrate some belief in something, have some opinions, ask a few questions, all of that would be nice...an incentive if you call it that. Again I don't have this issue with friend zone.

 

 

I could go one step back and once go about superficial, at least I have been out with some of those single moms who seem so besotted with me, I actually tried. Does that make me better than people who reject me off hand, not really but at least I have some sort of perspective, which I often accused of not having here.

 

 

Your last paragraph brings out the cynic in me so I will TRY not to be. But frankly what do they want? Perhaps a sheep like the guys their friends date? Perhaps mr tree trunk arms? Perhaps Mr "yes honey" puppy? Perhaps Mr apathetic? Perhaps Mr conformity?

 

 

Date after date, even with people I didn't like I tried to ascertain this and there is no universal standard, you might as well throw a dart at the dart board with you eyes closed so ambiguous this is.

 

 

No the world owes nothing to me, its often given a kick in the head and I climb up and stare back and get on with learning why I got a kick in the head but there doesn't seem to be a lot one can learn here because inevitably any decision I make re dating is the wrong one, anything I say on dates is wrong.

 

 

I have never had anything but rejection. Never had a second date with anyone at all, granted 99.9% of the time I didn't actually want a second date so perhaps this doesn't count!

 

 

I have frequently cursed my own ineptitude, opportunities passed up, wrong decisions made, in some respects I am my own worst enemy because I hate making "mistakes".

 

 

The converse of this is I do know how good it can be to spend time with someone I like, there have been maybe three such people ever but I am just never what they want, when I see who they land up with I am left even more baffled as to what exactly they want.

[Garcon1986]

Every great explorer or scientist in history who was memorialized - always challenged staying still and resting on their laurels, and pushed the boundaries a little differently each time they failed at something.

[ZA Dater]

Accepting who you are and accepting to need to teach yourself to constantly be a better man are two different things. That is by the way, how many relationships fail in the real world.

 

I accept that you are the most extremely stubborn hard headed bloke I have ever encountered. However, I don't accept your point of view that you should stay where you are and grumble about women rejecting you. Unless of course, that is your happy place.

 

You can always be your own personality and forge your own path. However, you've mentioned topics that I know many women like to chat about. You still don't get dates. That's because you don't project an interesting personality to prospective singles, who are programmed to reject people who aren't immediately interesting in some form or fashion. I can see your point of view of being righteous, and having all the citizens of Loveshack criticize your point of view, and then you having more faith in your way of doing things.

 

If that achieves happiness for you, then by all means go for it. You can make that adult decision. However intimacy is a learned skill. Dating is a learned skill. The more we try to show you to the light, the more you try to stay in the darkness and grumble about women.

 

You have identified that you have a resting grumpy face, and you have identified that you are awkward around prospective dates. These are two very changeable things. You are right that you should never grovel for love. However, you still think that working on these two completely fixable things is against your core belief system. We've tried to give you advice but you have been steadfastly denying the advice or having rejections and falling flat on your face.

 

You can transfer your professional social skills to dating. It takes work but many who have come before have done it. You should be failing and then trying something different. But you've given up.

 

If you can say you can sit happily where you are, that's great, announce it, and we will stop badgering you. If not, the light is this way. Come with us and see how cool it can be to gradually improve your dating skills. What is preventing you from explicitly asking K to go around with you and be your wingwoman on real dating experiences? How about breaking that social norm?

 

 

 

Well if nothing else a lack of success has made me realise that perhaps I need to severely compromise and find what I want in different way in the sense of maybe friends is a better option for me.

 

 

Can never find any who want to talk about those things, most are too self absorbed and those who aren't are too apathetic.

 

 

Interesting personality. Ok I tell you exactly what I tell them.

 

 

"Hi I am ABC I run a variety of companies in the finance and property sector, I am busy working on a suspense romance novel which is currently nearing completion, though I still need to refine it. I don't have much down time but I run a fairly exclusive club which goes to various venues for lunch. I drive Italian supercars from time to time and write reviews on them. I have a keen interest in world affairs and politics."

 

 

What is not interesting about that? It never ever works not matter how I try sell myself. I am convinced it doesn't work because people don't relate to it.

 

 

Awkward only happens when there is absolutely NO common ground which there never is because either I don't relate to them or more often than not they don't relate to me. OR its not fun enough for them. OR its because I don't sit in the bar or dance around a club.

 

 

You are right I can transfer skills and the first of which is to remove everyone I have no interest in instantly. Just like they weed me out I am doing the same. OH NO you cant do that! You must give miss 37yo single mom a chance! Ok, I'll drop the sarcasm.

 

 

I am always going to stick the core that is me but equally I am always going to be hampered by things I cannot control, that being the likes of what women actually want.

 

 

K isn't going to do that because like me she has very few friends.

[Garcon1986]

"Hi I am ABC I run a variety of companies in the finance and property sector, I am busy working on a suspense romance novel which is currently nearing completion, though I still need to refine it. I don't have much down time but I run a fairly exclusive club which goes to various venues for lunch. I drive Italian supercars from time to time and write reviews on them. I have a keen interest in world affairs and politics."

 

 

Each of these things is a several hour talking point - or several weeks if you play your cards well. What you've done here is to dazzle the woman into thinking either she's never going to be able to run on the same track as you, or make her totally lose interest because you play all your cards. I have about 45 hobbies like yourself, but I only reveal two at a time.

 

I am socially impaired like yourself, but made it my holy duty to learn social skills and emotional intelligence. While I am far behind the classic frat boy lawyer's social skills, I am now the life of the party at my workplace. My fault was never learning social skills back in childhood when there was no penalty for getting it wrong. My first girlfriend was in primary school but I buggered it up obviously haha.

 

An alternative approach is: I am having a great time doing my exclusive club. And then - you banter about all the people you've met while keeping them anonymous. That caters to the peoplewatching crowd.

 

The books - you could share what you know about romance. Women are reading romance novels from a really young age, some even around 10. Some would be really willing to talk about your interpretations of romance. Obviously don't show them the grumbling side you show us.

 

Fancy women who are the gold-diggers would love to talk to you about Italian cars. You could take one out on a ride and talk about the sweet ride you get.

 

You see how I am putting a different spin on all this stuff? Can you comment on if your stern personality and lack of a smile has changed yet?

[littleblackheart]

Probably or I am tired of being disappointed. Logically they are not on the country long all they want is some fun and how fun is an inexperienced guy going to be? All I'd do is look like an idiot.

 

It's extremely difficult to hope when nothing positive arrives. Spent the morning with K which was nice, again it's friend zone but it's better than any date I have had. I can do banter there which is fun because she gets me but it's also a no pressure harmless situation where I know nothing will come of it.

 

Ok. I think you need to read a little on learned helplessness (it's a real thing!).

 

Essentially, it's a form of depression that comes from your mind getting used to the idea that no matter what you do, you can't change a particular situation.

 

Your friend K is your excuse for not getting out of your inertia.

[ZA Dater]

Each of these things is a several hour talking point - or several weeks if you play your cards well. What you've done here is to dazzle the woman into thinking either she's never going to be able to run on the same track as you, or make her totally lose interest because you play all your cards. I have about 45 hobbies like yourself, but I only reveal two at a time.

 

I am socially impaired like yourself, but made it my holy duty to learn social skills and emotional intelligence. While I am far behind the classic frat boy lawyer's social skills, I am now the life of the party at my workplace. My fault was never learning social skills back in childhood when there was no penalty for getting it wrong. My first girlfriend was in primary school but I buggered it up obviously haha.

 

An alternative approach is: I am having a great time doing my exclusive club. And then - you banter about all the people you've met while keeping them anonymous. That caters to the peoplewatching crowd.

 

The books - you could share what you know about romance. Women are reading romance novels from a really young age, some even around 10. Some would be really willing to talk about your interpretations of romance. Obviously don't show them the grumbling side you show us.

 

Fancy women who are the gold-diggers would love to talk to you about Italian cars. You could take one out on a ride and talk about the sweet ride you get.

 

You see how I am putting a different spin on all this stuff? Can you comment on if your stern personality and lack of a smile has changed yet?

 

 

 

I agree with you, all of it! BUT when I don't get asked any questions its make a conversation very difficult. I suspect you and I made the same mistake but I spin it with the fact I learnt other things so sitting here and moping about it isn't going to help me!

 

 

I have done the banter thing but that can be problematic if the person cannot relate to what I am saying. The book does get some attention but its more matter of fact than any sort of interest. I try to expand on the book but again no questions and its a one sided conversation, which I then turn by asking them things about themselves and then it becomes an interview....

 

 

There is one thing that cant be conveyed here is the confidence I can carry is that of being happy with who I am. I can put positive spin on things now which I have been working hard to do and K is my test on each thing I try do different, see the reaction I get. My gauge of success is how the friend zone thing works. Her body language towards me.

[ZA Dater]

Ok. I think you need to read a little on learned helplessness (it's a real thing!).

 

Essentially, it's a form of depression that comes from your mind getting used to the idea that no matter what you do, you can't change a particular situation.

 

Your friend K is your excuse for not getting out of your inertia.

 

 

 

Not really. I'd be pretty silly not to believe in I can find what I want but I accept it might not be in a conventional way. I may need to just settle for friends if that gives me most of what I want.

[Garcon1986]

And any reason why K can't be your wingwoman?

[Garcon1986]

I'm glad we found common ground unlike the gun control debate in Mississippi

[littleblackheart]

Not really. I'd be pretty silly not to believe in I can find what I want but I accept it might not be in a conventional way. I may need to just settle for friends if that gives me most of what I want.

 

99% of the posts I've read from you are a variation of 'there's no point, no one gets me, I've done everything but can't find anyone who relates despite me being a confident guy, I'm not going to fake it, social outings are a drag because of the music, the noise, being teetotal' etc.

 

Whatever your issue is, your lack of success is NOT down to you being socially awkward - as an Aspie, I would find it insulting that your attitude to dating would somewhat be amalgamated with being the autism spectrum, as though it would excuse how you describe your experiences on LS. I used to wonder whether you were and even suggested for you to look into it way back when - one year and thousands of posts later on the same very thing thing have completely changed my perspective.

[Garcon1986]

Now the conversation falling flat thing. Have you asked K to brainstorm that with you? What about your conversational body language?

[ZA Dater]

And any reason why K can't be your wingwoman?

 

Because I tried to date her and in many respects it was that rejection which made me realise I had to fundamentally change who I was in terms of look style and try find some more confidence.

 

I still think if I was the person I am now back then I'd have had a better chance.

[ZA Dater]

Now the conversation falling flat thing. Have you asked K to brainstorm that with you? What about your conversational body language?

 

They just never offered me anything I was looking for that's the truth. Two I really liked, the rest I simply didn't. I either find something amazing about a person or I don't.

[ZA Dater]

99% of the posts I've read from you are a variation of 'there's no point, no one gets me, I've done everything but can't find anyone who relates despite me being a confident guy, I'm not going to fake it, social outings are a drag because of the music, the noise, being teetotal' etc.

 

Whatever your issue is, your lack of success is NOT down to you being socially awkward - as an Aspie, I would find it insulting that your attitude to dating would somewhat be amalgamated with being the autism spectrum, as though it would excuse how you describe your experiences on LS. I used to wonder whether you were and even suggested for you to look into it way back when - one year and thousands of posts later on the same very thing thing have completely changed my perspective.

 

I think you missed my point. My experience is my experience. All I said was if good friends is the compromise I need to make to get most of what I like them so be it. I have no idea where you gleen the conclusions you make above.

 

Perspective is a result of experience, someone who has good experiences will have a different perspective to someone who hasn't.

[basil67]

I agree with you, all of it! BUT when I don't get asked any questions its make a conversation very difficult. I suspect you and I made the same mistake but I spin it with the fact I learnt other things so sitting here and moping about it isn't going to help me!

 

People being poor conversationalists seems to be a common malady. Or perhaps it's always been like this and I've only begun to notice. I've even got family who will spend two hours talking about themselves and not once ask what's going on in our household.

[littleblackheart]

I think you missed my point. My experience is my experience. All I said was if good friends is the compromise I need to make to get most of what I like them so be it. I have no idea where you gleen the conclusions you make above.

 

Perspective is a result of experience, someone who has good experiences will have a different perspective to someone who hasn't.

 

Seems you missed my point too. I was summing up the posts I'd read from you over the last few months (years?) here on LS, with posters with varying degrees of patience giving you the same exact type of advice - you were already advised about picking up on social cues, reading body language, trying to show a lighter side to your personality, appear more engaging, be less tight / righteous / more cheery, etc.

 

I don't personally think that's your problem - if it was, you'd have picked up on that by now, one would hope.

 

BTW, Perspective is the result of observation and analysis, not experience - it's the way you see and interpret concepts or events relative to others.

[preraph]

 

Bottom line is you are not attractive to women you like, even though you are not fat and you are a kind person.

 

 

Kind people don't go on and on about how gross fat women are. To be honest, I think the biggest problem ZA has is his personality. I mean, we've all seen his diatribes and double standards and bitterness in his writing here. I have to believe it doesn't take long to get a whiff of that in OLD.

[chillii]

You completely missed the point. My grovelling comment had nothing to do with the reading material you suggested.<snip>

 

 

 

Your a one woman man , not a dater . l;m a one woman man. l have no interest in 99% of women and l've never dated in my life because l've had zero interest in meeting or wasting my time with just anyone"s.

So anytime l was single , l bided time and waited for that one special person that does interest me and l see a future with.

 

This is what you need to do, you just need another K. Only a romantically K.

But you can't find them growing on trees , she'll be a one in 10 million so hopefully you just haven't found another one yet. Doesn't mean she's not out there and you won't. You live life go with whatever you feel and like , keep eyes ears and senses open for when that one off K type of person does pop up and crosses your path.

 

lf it's real you'll feel each other in seconds.

She'll get you love you you won't have to do a thing or be anyone fake, just you and neither will she, everything just falls into place.

 

It'll be like when you met K only all the right feelings both ways.

There's someone for everyone out there, doesn't matter who we are or what we like.

It's hard to explain but if we're strong and believe in who we are then any flops or bad calls don't matter ,yeah l had them too. But you know it's as simple as they just weren't for you anyway. Just go on with life and believe , keep the faith, none of this negative bs.

Edited December 10, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[chillii]

Just wondering , has K got a bf or H or anyone.?

lf not she probably wishes it was just there for you guys too.

[JuneL]

Ok so I took stock, sat down, listed the things I want to improve but I realized something, I cant change how I look and that's the biggest impediment. Put a pic of a model on a profile and get tones of matches, post a picture of me and suddenly it's the same overweight matches.

 

Clearly looks are the gateway. I'll rather just get on with my life chase what's never going to want me but at least I know why.

 

Feel somewhat calmer now.

 

I'd had planned to do some cold approaches but after this little experiment I don't really see the point. Ugly is as ugly does.

 

I didn’t read the rest of the thread, so I’m not sure if the obvious has been mentioned: Have you researched about plastic surgery?

[ZA Dater]

Seems you missed my point too. I was summing up the posts I'd read from you over the last few months (years?) here on LS, with posters with varying degrees of patience giving you the same exact type of advice - you were already advised about picking up on social cues, reading body language, trying to show a lighter side to your personality, appear more engaging, be less tight / righteous / more cheery, etc.

 

I don't personally think that's your problem - if it was, you'd have picked up on that by now, one would hope.

 

BTW, Perspective is the result of observation and analysis, not experience - it's the way you see and interpret concepts or events relative to others.

 

 

Ask yourself one thing: Why.

 

 

Why must I be like everyone else, why must I say the same things, why must I act the same as everyone else? Why?

 

 

More engaging? That's why I sit on at dates and singularly have to lead the conversation and drag some sort of response out of people! How much more engaging must I be?

 

 

I don't see anything wrong with me. I am not going to sit and pick myself apart because nobody wants to date me? I tried to do the chameleon thing and you know what that didn't work any better and I just felt worse.

 

 

Do I fit in: NO I don't but I never have. Should that be an impediment, in my mind not but seemingly to sheep lead society it is.

 

 

 

You seem to think I don't try when I actually do try and put best foot forward but why must I really when I am instantly dismissed because I don't conform.

 

 

Something for you to think about is this. I don't try and date miss model, I meet a fair few of them from time to time because I simply stand no chance, I try to find like with like but I never find like with like so I then decided to try go for the best looking people I could find, with equally bad results BUT at least I have played both sides of the coin.

[ZA Dater]

I didn’t read the rest of the thread, so I’m not sure if the obvious has been mentioned: Have you researched about plastic surgery?

 

 

 

Why would it? To once again pander to a revolving door of likes?

 

 

I have removed myself from the OLD pool completely which means I wont get any dates at all but nothing is better than having to deal with some of the people on OLD and its also better than going on dates with people I don't find attractive.

 

 

If anything what I am most guilty of is having my own feelings toward myself dictated do by the rejection of others of me. That negative cycle offers me nothing at all but I guess when I see the same people over and over again on OLD then I begin to wonder, who is really the issue...me or them.

 

 

I'll just keep myself busy over the holidays and just try and ignore all the couples I will undoubtedly see everywhere.