A lesson

[Blanco]

But I thought none of that was important? Much like I am told looks aren't important either, well its ok for ladies to find them important but I cant find them important.

 

The tone of this is so smarmy that it's almost infuriating.

 

What is the point of these bloated threads when you continue to return to these binary statements which are contradicted by many posts within that very thread?

 

No one has said looks don't matter for either men or women. What people have said is that men tend to place more importance on looks than women do. TEND TO. Not universally. Women are generally more capable of looking past a possible superficial shortcoming compared to men. That doesn't mean they all do or that looks in a partner are totally meaningless to them. In fact, I don't know many women who are with someone or have dated someone that they don't/didn't find attractive in some way.

 

Similarly, no one has said that you aren't allowed to judge a woman's appearance. What people have said is that women hold the right to reject you based on your appearance in the same way you dismiss certain women based on their appearance. Moreover, many people who have stuck in out in this odious thread have said that you are free to fawn over beautiful women, but it is not their obligation to give you the time of day when you have little to offer them.

 

Them be the breaks, my boy.

[ZA Dater]

The tone of this is so smarmy that it's almost infuriating.

 

What is the point of these bloated threads when you continue to return to these binary statements which are contradicted by many posts within that very thread?

 

No one has said looks don't matter for either men or women. What people have said is that men tend to place more importance on looks than women do. TEND TO. Not universally. Women are generally more capable of looking past a possible superficial shortcoming compared to men. That doesn't mean they all do or that looks in a partner are totally meaningless to them. In fact, I don't know many women who are with someone or have dated someone that they don't/didn't find attractive in some way.

 

Similarly, no one has said that you aren't allowed to judge a woman's appearance. What people have said is that women hold the right to reject you based on your appearance in the same way you dismiss certain women based on their appearance. Moreover, many people who have stuck in out in this odious thread have said that you are free to fawn over beautiful women, but it is not their obligation to give you the time of day when you have little to offer them.

 

Them be the breaks, my boy.

 

In exactly the same way I did actually give people the time of day I didn't find attractive. So tell me if you are so correct, why no matches with my own pics and tons of matches with fake pics?

 

If that person isn't going to match with me they aren't going to give me the time of day in the bookshop either. I disagree women place far more emphasis on looks as has been proven here.

 

Sure it's not their obligation but it's not my obligation to go out with people I don't find attractive to try and gain experience.

[ZA Dater]

You've partially missed my point - I am telling you that serious people have a much harder time in the dating scene.

 

I made the women laugh by talking about everything from making fun of Indian accents vs Chinese accents vs New Yorker accents, to making fun of southern food, to making self deprecating jokes, to impressing a young mother by speaking Farsi to her child (flirting aimed at the Mom), to telling a joke about counseling mice in eating healthier if they get diagnosed with high blood pressure.

 

I only achieved this level of humor by going out of my way, wasting people's time as you describe it, and practicing with the morbidly obese to the single mothers to the 50 year old smokers who have only 4 teeth left. I've reaped the fantastic reward of being more accepted by women and now I'm being chased by single attractive Indian women who are unfortunately not my type. But everyone is entitled to have a type.

 

Again, why is it beneath you to improve your humor? You've dodged my question multiple times so I will ask you again.

 

Have to be totally honest that sounds like an awful way to spend time. If it works for you great.

 

I am not humorous it's just that way it is. Tellingly I have never enjoyed comedy barring perhaps dry humour. But even I can't debate that for whatever reason women love it. No idea why but they do.

 

Then again everyone enjoys a clown. Even me. Sometimes.

[Garcon1986]

Have you ever wanted to relax after a hard days work in your life ?

[ZA Dater]

Have you ever wanted to relax after a hard days work in your life ?

 

My relaxing is taking up a new project or planning events or perhaps watching a series or I'll go for a cycle.

[elaine567]

Then those some women must not complain when they are seen only as sex objects and the guys actually don't care one iota about them.

You just listed why I don't bother going out.

 

Why would being entertained by a man on a date, be seen as treating women like sex objects and showing a lack of care?

The whole point of dating is that is is meant to be enjoyable and fun for both.

If a woman is not having fun, she is not relaxed and comfortable within the date, then the likelihood of a second date is nil unless she is somewhat "desperate"...

[Garcon1986]

What do you gain psychologically from denying the viewpoints of everyone on Loveshack ZA Dater? Is it a badge of honour for you?

[ZA Dater]

Why would being entertained by a man on a date, be seen as treating women like sex objects and showing a lack of care?

The whole point of dating is that is is meant to be enjoyable and fun for both.

If a woman is not having fun, she is not relaxed and comfortable within the date, then the likelihood of a second date is nil unless she is somewhat "desperate"...

 

 

 

Fair point I suppose. Fun for me is actually having someone I get along with well who brings out a more open less shy me oh and who I can actually sit and talk to about seemingly anything.

 

 

These people are about as rare is finding a diamond in ones back yard.

 

 

Simply put I admit defeat, clearly I am wrong and the forum is right. Based on my own experiences I believe me points have some merit but anyway.

 

 

Perhaps what isn't understood quite so clearly here is I try and look at things objectively and dispassionately.

 

 

Most of what I want I get from the few odd friend zone meet ups every so often, would I want more, yes I would but when I went looking for it I just found more of what I absolutely don't want.

 

 

It would be a completely different matter if people I did want showed some sort of interest in me but why would they when there are better options for them and I left with what I don't want.

 

 

Seemingly nothing I can do will change my odds when fundamentally I am not what they are looking for.

 

 

The greatest thing is when someone nice shows interest, I can count on one hand how often this has happened, most women don't put any effort at all with me, its one way traffic.

 

 

Mostly I just live vicariously through others and their amazing experiences because its some comfort against my own very average horrible experiences.

[ZA Dater]

What do you gain psychologically from denying the viewpoints of everyone on Loveshack ZA Dater? Is it a badge of honour for you?

 

 

 

I don't deny them but some are not relevant to my own circumstance based on my own experiences. You have had great experiences, I have not so obviously your perspective is going to be different to mine. I can want to take a pretty eastern European to dinner but you actually did, only way I can get that is to waste money paying a stripper.

 

 

My view is jaded because how could it not be based on what I have experienced. The only good one was K and that's good because I have a friend which I didn't have, though is doesn't ever mix me with her friends so its more a work friendship than anything else, the rest, forgettable every single one of them. Some I worked on for years trying to charm, trying to get them to give me a date, nope never worked.

 

 

I can walk around, I can smile, I can try a different resting face but for what. Say I find someone nice who miraculously gives me the time of day, its dead because I wont know when I kiss her, I wont know any of that and who wants to teach a 34yo that. NOBODY. Do I want to learn that from someone I don't want, absolutely not. So I learnt this so I hardly even try now. If I get a smile or something its a win because I know I am not going to get anything more because there will be something wrong with every single aspect of me.

 

 

Either I walk around feeling like a piece of trash or I remove myself completely, walk around focussing on my work, sure noticing the pretty brunette but I know that's about all I can do: notice. You asked why I am serious, this is why because I always need something to focus on. If I don't do that then I help those close to me, often the same people I am friends with, at least then I add some value and get some intellectual attention in return.

[Garcon1986]

You are getting a lack of interest in women directly as a result of your serious attitude and serious face. You have brought this upon yourself (although I don't know when was the first epoch you originally decided to be serious).

 

This is fixable, and has been shown to directly result in people having a warmer attitude towards you. Women will eventually like you enough to let you make out with them if you showcase your warm side enough times. However, you say no, "I've been rejected too many times, so therefore I am justified in placing myself in my own bubble". This is an equivalent of a student of mine saying I am wrong, and I refuse to learn to do better, and I am justified in refusing any attempt to learn to do better.

 

Why can't you stand up to the pain of female rejection and work towards success in the dating scene like everyone else? Is there some Emperor holding Darth Vader hostage here?

[ZA Dater]

You are getting a lack of interest in women directly as a result of your serious attitude and serious face. You have brought this upon yourself (although I don't know when was the first epoch you originally decided to be serious).

 

This is fixable, and has been shown to directly result in people having a warmer attitude towards you. Women will eventually like you enough to let you make out with them if you showcase your warm side enough times. However, you say no, "I've been rejected too many times, so therefore I am justified in placing myself in my own bubble". This is an equivalent of a student of mine saying I am wrong, and I refuse to learn to do better, and I am justified in refusing any attempt to learn to do better.

 

Why can't you stand up to the pain of female rejection and work towards success in the dating scene like everyone else? Is there some Emperor holding Darth Vader hostage here?

 

Not interested in anyone who is interested in me so no I don't see the upside. Apparently takes years to improve so really I'd rather do things which give me some joy versus ones which dont.

 

Very few have warm attitudes toward me unless they need something.

[Garcon1986]

We are well on our way to making it to 500 pages of debate ZA Dater. Well done.

[Garcon1986]

The benefit of doing things my way is you may potentially lead yourself to another caring woman like K, who could be your girlfriend.

[Garcon1986]

Read this ZA Dater, it's very important:

 

I'm going to go full woman on you:

 

If a woman was considering you previously, and was on the fence, and you start things off by projecting your serious personality, I can guarantee you that she will say no thanks. The hotness factor you described, is there, but - it's universal. That can't be changed except by plastic surgery.

 

Why are you choosing to willfully scare off women who could have been on the fence about dating you?

 

Again, the reason you are scaring off women is your serious personality. How on earth did you get anywhere with job interviews? Didn't you ever learn the importance of being likable?

 

Didn't you ever learn the life lesson that says you'll never get good at golf by reading about golf?

[Garcon1986]

And why have you refused to use your analytical mind to process and comment on dating advice for those on the Asperger spectrum?

[ZA Dater]

Read this ZA Dater, it's very important:

 

I'm going to go full woman on you:

 

If a woman was considering you previously, and was on the fence, and you start things off by projecting your serious personality, I can guarantee you that she will say no thanks. The hotness factor you described, is there, but - it's universal. That can't be changed except by plastic surgery.

 

Why are you choosing to willfully scare off women who could have been on the fence about dating you?

 

Again, the reason you are scaring off women is your serious personality. How on earth did you get anywhere with job interviews? Didn't you ever learn the importance of being likable?

 

Didn't you ever learn the life lesson that says you'll never get good at golf by reading about golf?

 

Then so be it. Been on the field enough to know no matter what I do it doesn't matter, there is always someone they want more . There is no fence, I don't meet enough people for there to be people sitting on the fence.

 

Really boils down to the fact unless you have charm and charisma you may as well not bother because an authentic personality is frowned upon but a fake one is loved.

 

You have pretty much just proven that point.

[ZA Dater]

And why have you refused to use your analytical mind to process and comment on dating advice for those on the Asperger spectrum?

 

Because it doesn't interest me. I am serious, not fun, not conformist. Really not sure why I even bother.

[Garcon1986]

Apart from having your job, what's one positive thing that's happened from you being serious all the time?

[ZA Dater]

Apart from having your job, what's one positive thing that's happened from you being serious all the time?

 

Lots I have grown my social clubs membership, done some decent deals, met some interesting people.

 

I have only ever been serious so...

[elaine567]

Lots I have grown my social clubs membership, done some decent deals, met some interesting people.

 

I have only ever been serious so...

 

 

But all of that is immaterial.

A bit like saying "I did a degree in engineering, why can't I be a doctor?"

[ZA Dater]

But all of that is immaterial.

A bit like saying "I did a degree in engineering, why can't I be a doctor?"

 

Doesn't matter I keep myself mostly occupied with challenges. In my own mind dating is a challenge too just an impossible one and one without any reward or redeeming factors.

 

My serious persona has worked for when it comes to things which matter. Irrespective of I was a fun guy the results would be thrilled same because they'd find something else wrong.

[Garcon1986]

And from your analysis, why was building your social clubs easy, but dating impossible? Wouldn't there be clients also finding things wrong with you?

 

 

How did clients come to your social club anyway if all you ever portrayed was your stone face?

[littleblackheart]

Ask yourself one thing: Why.

 

 

Why must I be like everyone else, why must I say the same things, why must I act the same as everyone else? Why?

 

 

More engaging? That's why I sit on at dates and singularly have to lead the conversation and drag some sort of response out of people! How much more engaging must I be?

 

 

I don't see anything wrong with me. I am not going to sit and pick myself apart because nobody wants to date me? I tried to do the chameleon thing and you know what that didn't work any better and I just felt worse.

 

 

Do I fit in: NO I don't but I never have. Should that be an impediment, in my mind not but seemingly to sheep lead society it is.

 

 

 

You seem to think I don't try when I actually do try and put best foot forward but why must I really when I am instantly dismissed because I don't conform.

 

 

Something for you to think about is this. I don't try and date miss model, I meet a fair few of them from time to time because I simply stand no chance, I try to find like with like but I never find like with like so I then decided to try go for the best looking people I could find, with equally bad results BUT at least I have played both sides of the coin.

 

I don't think anything - I realise that you are more than the sum of your posts but I can only base myself on your posts because I have nothing else to go on.

 

You don't want to conform? Totally fine, neither do I. But you seem to conflate 'conforming' with meeting people half-way. If you are trying and it's jiving, it's not meant to be. That's all.

 

I am beyond picky myself (zero physical prerequites, I have a non-negociable list of character traits and values instead) so in some way, I get where you are coming from.

 

My real life personality doesn't really translate well in a forum so on that too, I have some sympathy for you.

 

Where we differ is on attitude. Plenty of people who 'don't conform' find themselves in fulfilling relationships (no settling, no reaching, no desperation, no forcing themselves) - if they can, so can you.

 

Sure there is a little bit of luck and patience involved, sure it may not happen - all you can do is keep hoping it works out, despite the odds.

 

There is no answer to your 'why'; if you don't want to change, stay as you are and hope it's enough.

[ZA Dater]

And from your analysis, why was building your social clubs easy, but dating impossible? Wouldn't there be clients also finding things wrong with you?

 

 

How did clients come to your social club anyway if all you ever portrayed was your stone face?

 

Easy because it's a club built on mutual interest and the subject is something I am passionate about and that enthusiasm people like.

 

Dating is impossible because I don't usually find anyone interested or interesting. I portray myself as different which people don't like.

 

Honestly what motivation do I have to go out and chat to some random person who more likely than not has a bf. The answer is very little.

[elaine567]

Easy because it's a club built on mutual interest and the subject is something I am passionate about and that enthusiasm people like.

 

Exactly.

The club is not set up to extol the virtues of the great ZA Dater, the club exists for those who have a passion for Supercars.

As long as the club remains an interesting place for members, it could very well still exist whether ZA is there or not, someone else could run it.

Seriousness, efficiency, accuracy and organisation are needed in order for the club to run smoothly.

 

Dating is a different ball game.