A lesson

[ZA Dater]

Your refusal to take even little bits of experience that women offer you is mind boggling. Heck I even started my sex life with a 25 year old with seizures and static encephalopathy, who couldn't even walk without a big limp.

 

 

 

I have and do to take perspective from my few close ladies in life. It gets me some of what I want but not all. BUT its a compromise which works mostly for me and more so when I see what is out there.

 

 

I just find it mind boggling that people would want to subject themselves to situations they don't want in order to gain experience. If you are so desperate for experience then why not simply pay? Surely what would have offered a better experience than the person you describe above?

 

 

Me, I just hold onto some misguided hope that one day I can somehow get someone I like to like me but lets be realistic its improbable at best.

[ZA Dater]

Ok. Jadedness + resentfulness = very, very bad. What kind of partner do you propose to be with all that built-up negativity you seem to have been carrying with you for years? Do you think you will transform into a positive guy overnight once you meet the one? Serious question.

 

Dating is one thing. The end goal of it is a relationship, ie a million times more hard work in terms of compromising. Are you ready for that?

 

Side not - Whoever keeps bringing the Asperger's thing:

 

Asperger's is NOT the go-to explanation for everything. It's not a cherry-picking 'we all are a bit on the spectrum' kind of disorder, it's much more than social awkwardness. I have Asperger's and this is NOT typical of ASD behaviour. Rant over (sorry for the thread jack, OP)

 

 

I am glad you pointed out the bold, thank you. Sincerely, in case I am seen as being sarcastic (I am not being so).

 

 

Compromise, am 100% happy to do with BUT for the right person, everything each day is about compromise but I am less likely to compromise with someone I don't connect with intellectually in a dating scenario. Heck I have had wine on a date because I liked her, I didn't like wine but I toughed it out anyway and we had a good laugh about it.

 

 

Yes I can transform, I just need that smallest amount of whatever its called when I really like someone, life is better with them around, I feel happier I project differently. I gain some confidence. The bit of attention I get.

 

 

This is really what I am chasing.

[Giraffe-A]

Those online sites have really gone downhill in the past 15 years. They have made it so difficult to really get to know someone. It's become this really vicious cycle of recent breakups, emotionally unavailable, and those with the superficial need to find a hot rebound. Honestly, if you feel ugly, no one can talk you out of it unless it's someone good looking gal. But if you want the good looking gal, you gotta bring a lot more to the table. Are you funny? Are you confident? Are you passionate about your job? Do your friends think you are cool? Do you have all of these awesome traditions with your family where one would fall in love with them and want to be part of them? I can go on with the list that has nothing to do with looks, but that have attracted most of my really good-looking friends to some of the most unattractive men imaginable. However, you get sucked right in there with their charisma. Those are things you CAN actually work on.

[Blanco]

Why should I take what I don't want?

 

You shouldn't. But you also should stop whining about how you can't get what you want. You're starving to death on the streets and turning down anything that isn't steak.

 

Quite frankly, I don't think it's difficult to see why you've had such struggles with women. But I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here, other than to perhaps vent. If that's the case, then just state so. That way, people can stop wasting their time trying to offer solutions.

[Blanco]

Those online sites have really gone downhill in the past 15 years. They have made it so difficult to really get to know someone. It's become this really vicious cycle of recent breakups, emotionally unavailable, and those with the superficial need to find a hot rebound. Honestly, if you feel ugly, no one can talk you out of it unless it's someone good looking gal. But if you want the good looking gal, you gotta bring a lot more to the table. Are you funny? Are you confident? Are you passionate about your job? Do your friends think you are cool? Do you have all of these awesome traditions with your family where one would fall in love with them and want to be part of them? I can go on with the list that has nothing to do with looks, but that have attracted most of my really good-looking friends to some of the most unattractive men imaginable. However, you get sucked right in there with their charisma. Those are things you CAN actually work on.

 

It's way too much to digest, but I suggest perusing some of the other threads OP has made over the last three years. Then perhaps you'll get a better sense why some people are at a loss on what to say to him at this point.

[Garcon1986]

For the epic journey of ZA Dater, enough advice has been given for several trips between middle earth and Mordor to destroy the One Ring. Frodo has been stopped on the curb arguing with the Orcs.

[littleblackheart]

I am glad you pointed out the bold, thank you. Sincerely, in case I am seen as being sarcastic (I am not being so).

 

 

Compromise, am 100% happy to do with BUT for the right person, everything each day is about compromise but I am less likely to compromise with someone I don't connect with intellectually in a dating scenario. Heck I have had wine on a date because I liked her, I didn't like wine but I toughed it out anyway and we had a good laugh about it.

 

 

Yes I can transform, I just need that smallest amount of whatever its called when I really like someone, life is better with them around, I feel happier I project differently. I gain some confidence. The bit of attention I get.

 

 

This is really what I am chasing.

 

What you're chasing is what most people are chasing, plus wanting to become a good partner too - not just what you are set to gain from a relationship, but also what you are ready to give in return.

 

I have a ton of degrees myself (really, I do) and if being intellectually curious matters to me a lot (not necessarily being academically educated, I should add) I pay much more attention to emotional intelligence, sound mental health and qualities 'of the heart' - given the choice, I would put kindness and patience over dry wit or any 'shallow' or materialistic factors any day, for instance.

 

So what do you mean by 'intelligence'? Because seriously, I can't see how you can pick up a stranger's level of intelligence after one short date.

[Normm]

For the epic journey of ZA Dater, enough advice has been given for several trips between middle earth and Mordor to destroy the One Ring. Frodo has been stopped on the curb arguing with the Orcs.

 

 

Maybe ZA should use The Force.

[nospam99]

For the epic journey of ZA Dater, enough advice has been given for several trips between middle earth and Mordor to destroy the One Ring. Frodo has been stopped on the curb arguing with the Orcs.

 

Between Eriador and Mordor. Both are in Middle Earth. .... Tolkien-fan nospam

[ZA Dater]

You shouldn't. But you also should stop whining about how you can't get what you want. You're starving to death on the streets and turning down anything that isn't steak.

 

Quite frankly, I don't think it's difficult to see why you've had such struggles with women. But I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here, other than to perhaps vent. If that's the case, then just state so. That way, people can stop wasting their time trying to offer solutions.

 

I have been on enough dates with people I didn't find atractive in any way at all. Why go back to that?

 

If you were me would you settle?

[Garcon1986]

So you need an extraordinarily smart woman because you can't twist yourself to be attracted to anybody else.

 

Why not go back to college to earn a degree and meet these people, or start searching for the most intellectual past-times that South Africa has to offer, and then join those clubs? You've just been banging on that nobody in South Africa meets your standards.

 

Let me remind you that the Loveshack community remains united in the political viewpoint that being jaded and resentful is not going to get you anywhere. If you want to post just for the attention, we can all start copying and pasting what we've said in previous posts.

 

 

There is one way to dig up more attractive people - giving them more than one date's time to showcase their personality.

 

You've had all the advice that there is to give.

[Normm]

If you want to post just for the attention, we can all start copying and pasting what we've said in previous posts.

 

 

That won't work. That's the same as giving an attention deprived person a tape recorder with prerecorded messages on it and saying "here, listen to this it's the same thing over and over again". It's different when there's a captive audience, and with ZA there's always a new group that doesn't know the history and have yet to bang their heads against the walls after seeing their well intended advice bounce off of it. Giving advice to ZA is like entering a building that has a revolving door with an entrance but no exit.

[sabaton]

I'm all for debating conflicting ideas. It's just that I don't really see the point to most of OP's threads. They pretty much all boil down to how women are just as shallow as men and it's unfair that he become a sheep and break from who he really is "just" so he can date women he finds attractive.

First of all, there is no such thing as shallowness. Women are far more vulnerable than men are, in every stage of their lives. They're the ones who have the burden of carrying on the human species so we don't all die off, the window they have to make strong, healthy babies, is very short and is at it's strongest when they're very young and way too many guys at that time aren't really worth much, daddy and husband material.

 

If I was a woman I'd only reproduce with a 25 year old Brad Pitt, to be honest.

 

Since women have to carry the baby, having to deal with all of the nuisances of having a baby inside of them, having someone depend on them, and then being the ones who give birth(something that historically killed millions of women) and then raising the baby... yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say, ''you go girl, don't settle for a man you are not attracted to, if he wants the honey, he better be worth it.''

 

The fact that we're here 20+ pages in and he's still saying "Why should I take what I don't want" pretty much says it all. It doesn't matter what people chime in with or perspectives they offer. He finds a way to bring it back to his original position. Nothing gained or learned. Just the same old "woe is me" spiel he's been hammering home for three years.

Listen, I'm old(29) but I'm not old enough to know what men were up to before the age of the internet. I suppose they were many men who complained about women, but something I've noticed in the last 10 years and more is that there's wayyyyyy too many guys being vocal about the fact that they only want women who are too much out of their personal league in terms of physical looks for those women to notice them, sexually, or romantically.

 

It's like, I remember I was talking to this 19 year dude on another website about what he oughta do when approaching a girl, and this fella chimes in with the most insane garbage I have ever heard, ''most women only want to be approached by men who look like Ryan Gosling, if you aren't Ryan Gosling and you approach her she's going to call the cops on you.''

 

I adviced the young man to spend a few seasons inside a psychiatric ward,but I don't think the guy followed through with it, and over the years I've talked to guys who rejected perfectly attractive young women because they only wanted the hottest of the hottest. With that girl wanting a 22 year old Robert Redford but aight, ''women only want hotttt guys.''

 

Gimme a break.

 

I know participation is voluntary, but it's a shame so many people over the years have earnestly tried to help someone who seems to prioritize being right over anything else.

He's 36 years old. I don't think he's sexually active. There's plenty of way hotter guys than him that sleep with women who aren't conventionally attractive, and they just shrug it off and do it because they want sex. OP either has a really low sex drive or he's barking at the wrong home team, if you know what I'm saying.

[Blanco]

I have been on enough dates with people I didn't find atractive in any way at all. Why go back to that?

 

If you were me would you settle?

 

I don't care if you go back to that. Don't ever date again for all I care. What I'm saying, and have said again and again, is that if you aren't happy with the caliber of women who are attracted to you and you refuse to adjust your criteria, then throw in the dating towel. Just stop with the incessant whining about it or complaining about it under the thin guise of wanting to engage in any meaningful and productive discussion.

[Blanco]

He's 36 years old. I don't think he's sexually active. There's plenty of way hotter guys than him that sleep with women who aren't conventionally attractive, and they just shrug it off and do it because they want sex. OP either has a really low sex drive or he's barking at the wrong home team, if you know what I'm saying.

 

I don't think that's it. I just think he's been gone so long that he's pretty much built this first relationship/sexual encounter up to a nearly impossible standard. The irony is that most first relationships don't last, so this notion that OP's problems would be behind him once he got someone he liked is faulty.

 

It just comes down to OP trying to punch far above his weight. He shouldn't date women he's not enticed by, but he needs to accept that his total inexperience, age, and caliber of woman he's after all combined is similar to a college freshman getting upset he's not getting to take master's courses.

[sabaton]

I don't think that's it. I just think he's been gone so long that he's pretty much built this first relationship/sexual encounter up to a nearly impossible standard. The irony is that most first relationships don't last, so this notion that OP's problems would be behind him once he got someone he liked is faulty.

 

It just comes down to OP trying to punch far above his weight. He shouldn't date women he's not enticed by, but he needs to accept that his total inexperience, age, and caliber of woman he's after all combined is similar to a college freshman getting upset he's not getting to take master's courses.

 

 

Part of me wonders those guys create such impossible standards in the women they are interested in dating because they're afraid of getting hurt, and by being attracted only to women who are way out of their league, the chances of them getting hurt is down to zero, because they aren't entering a relationship with the woman of their dreams in the first place, or if its all out of a sense of personal entilement like this dude.

 

 

Guy spends thousands of dollars trying to find a wife way out of his league overseas.

 

Guy spends thousands of dollars trying to find a wife way out of his league overseas. He finally meets her. Turns out to be a scam. He then tries the exact same thing.

 

 

 

 

Every time, 100% I see a guy complaining about American women it so happens to be a guy who wants a woman 10+ younger than him, or someone much better looking than him, and then the guy goes on a rant how foreign women are so much better than American women blah blah feminism blah blah why do(hot) women love hot men and don't give nice guys a chance.

[Wallysbears]

I’m truly exhausted reading this thread.

 

If you guys are anything like this on dates...it’s not surprising you don’t have women in your lives.

[ZA Dater]

Ok all the naysayers. I went on another date, one which happened a whole 45 minutes after matching with her.

 

 

She is from Ukraine, 32yo, for the purposes of this I'll leave out her work profession but will say she isn't a pay date.

 

 

Was it a good date. Yes because she actually gave something back, her English is not great but she does pretty well at it, she asked question, she smiled, she touched my arm and we talked about all sorts of mundane things and not so mundane things, where is from the town is occupied by rebels so she cant go home.

 

 

Has worked in a few different cities.

 

 

Very warm personality, kind and just nice. Instead of this dismissive attitude I get from local ladies I actually found one who thinks out the box a bit, can talk about things, smiles, laughs and I can be me.

 

 

It was actually very nice, she isn't here for very long but I'll run with this for a while and yes she is above average looking but unfortunately her chosen career would probably make most look down on her. Me, I don't really care to be honest, she is interesting and nice company.

 

 

Where I think I will admit a slight flawed thinking, whoever said go out with as many as you can is CORRECT. Yes I'll admit that thinking is correct but I still wont go out with people who I don't find attractive but I will vary that criteria a bit on a person but person basis, for example I am not interesting in being someone's drinks wallet for the evening.

 

 

One match I had "If you buy me drinks and buy that we can", quite how desperate she thought I was I have no idea but I prefer Caucasian ladies and I am not really into extremely large ladies at all.

 

 

You guys miss the point why I date, I don't date to get laid, I date because I am very lonely. Would I like to get laid, sure but I'd prefer that to be with someone I have some connection with.

[ZA Dater]

I don't think that's it. I just think he's been gone so long that he's pretty much built this first relationship/sexual encounter up to a nearly impossible standard. The irony is that most first relationships don't last, so this notion that OP's problems would be behind him once he got someone he liked is faulty.

 

It just comes down to OP trying to punch far above his weight. He shouldn't date women he's not enticed by, but he needs to accept that his total inexperience, age, and caliber of woman he's after all combined is similar to a college freshman getting upset he's not getting to take master's courses.

 

 

Amazing I have been told countless times those things don't matter by posters on this very forum, so which is it?

[chillii]

Ok all the naysayers. I went on another date, one which happened a whole 45 minutes after matching with her.

 

She is from Ukraine, 32yo, for the purposes of this I'll leave out her work profession but will say she isn't a pay date.

<SNIP>

 

 

Well there ya go , good for you well done.

And l can assure you "genuine", Russian women are as good as it gets. They can be beautiful natures, very smart, warm and supportive too , they have a whole different view to a relationship it is truly a partnership.

They actually believe in making love too and that's about as good as it gets too, it's not just this sex bs, so you might even suit in those ways too.

lt's a good idea meeting somebody different, seems as you usually just find all the same thing over and over with those you've been meeting..

 

The other one , ha, don't blame ya l wouldn't be going near her , well , unless you just wanted some experience .

Edited December 24, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Garcon1986]

Holy cannoli the Garcon can breathe a sigh of relief. Well done.

[normal person]

Why should I show any interest when they don't?

 

Because you appear not to have a choice in the matter, and you've been here complaining incessantly for years expecting things to change.

 

Why should I take what I don't want?

 

You shouldn't. You should be realistic about the prospects of getting what you do want and adjust your expectations/strategies/goals with that in mind and do what you can find something that satisfies and enriches you enough to be happy.

 

What would you say to an unemployed, un-athletic friend who was constantly saying "I want to play in NBA, why should take a job as a cashier?" Let's also say this person was frequently asking you for money. And let's also say this person liked to continually complain about why they didn't have any money.

 

You are that person. Guess what? You're not good enough to play in the NBA. They're not going to let you in the league no matter how much you complain about how much you'd rather play in it than be a cashier. The world continues to spin. Hopefully before it's too late you'll realize that if you can't play in the NBA, you can still find a way to make your passion for basketball a source of happiness. Maybe you play on a club team and do what you can during the day to make money. Maybe you get into coaching. Maybe you start a company related to basketball. You have to work out a way to find satisfaction given the cards you're dealt.

 

Even you've got to admit that at 35, it's laughable how you're still waiting for the world to cater to your desires. For someone who seems reasonably intelligent, you can't actually be this naive, can you?

 

Normal person, ZA Dater has been having the same circular arguments for 3 years straight and some 3 000 posts:

 

I'm aware. Who do you think he's been having those circular arguments with for 3 years? Surprised I'm not dizzier.

 

From what I've learned, the typical ZA thread goes as such:

 

- Complain about romantic life

- Misrepresent situation to make self seem like the only worthwhile, socially conscious, smart, person in a sea of drunk troglydytes

- Don't respond to probing questions that while uncomfortable, might provide clarity

- Insist that no additional effort/energy/outgoingness should be required of self because it's not required of desirable women

- Frame any suggestion that implies success is likely dependent on stepping out of comfort zone as "not being true to one's self," dismiss suggestion and insist that anyone who does such things is a "sheep,"

- Insist that if uncomfortable things have to be done for something desirable, then they aren't worth it, proclaim happiness and victory over the charade of courtship

- Start a new thread to complain about unhappiness

Edited December 27, 2018 by normal person

[brigit87]

You guys miss the point why I date, I don't date to get laid, I date because I am very lonely. Would I like to get laid, sure but I'd prefer that to be with someone I have some connection with.

 

I left this thread a while back and just saw it was up in recent posts. Nothing has changed.

 

Za doesn't want to settle but he doesn't like those that like him. It's not such an unusual problem. Lots of people only want the ones that don't want them.

 

I don't think you're ever going to meet anyone Za at this point in your life. You'll need to grow and mature spiritually. Seek out the bigger meaning of life and work on making the world a better place. You will not find what your looking for by dating now. It's not what the universe wants of you.

[ZA Dater]

You shouldn't. You should be realistic about the prospects of getting what you do want and adjust your expectations/strategies/goals with that in mind and do what you can find something that satisfies and enriches you enough to be happy.

 

What would you say to an unemployed, un-athletic friend who was constantly saying "I want to play in NBA, why should take a job as a cashier?" Let's also say this person was frequently asking you for money. And let's also say this person liked to continually complain about why they didn't have any money.

 

You are that person. Guess what? You're not good enough to play in the NBA. They're not going to let you in the league no matter how much you complain about how much you'd rather play in it than be a cashier. The world continues to spin. Hopefully before it's too late you'll realize that if you can't play in the NBA, you can still find a way to make your passion for basketball a source of happiness. Maybe you play on a club team and do what you can during the day to make money. Maybe you get into coaching. Maybe you start a company related to basketball. You have to work out a way to find satisfaction given the cards you're dealt.

 

Even you've got to admit that at 35, it's laughable how you're still waiting for the world to cater to your desires. For someone who seems reasonably intelligent, you can't actually be this naive, can you?

 

 

 

Not much argument on that but how do you explain that to people who continually put pressure on you to do things how they think you should do them? Yes these people are well meaning but the "help" they try to offer is akin to trying to writing on a wet piece of paper.

 

 

I'll be quite honest most of my life revolves around work and the club I run, there is not a lot else. Do I regret that I haven't "lived" more, yes and no, I'd have liked to do what some others did in their 20's but I cant go back to there.

 

 

That happy scale swings wildly because while I can get lost in the things I do some of the time I cant all the time and its then I look around and miss what I don't have. Here is a good example, yesterday I had a business meeting with my business partner and two ladies who are looking for capital and expertise. Said business partner cannot understand my mantra on dating, for him its about getting laid as often as possible, he looks at women as sex objects whereas I look to them as people and companions.

 

 

No surprise he tried to set me up with the one, on paper this like sending star football player to play ice hockey. She is nice enough, pretty enough, friendly enough but fundamentally she goes to trace parties, I cannot stand trance. Do you agree its a pointless matchup for me to chase?

 

 

He on the other hand just see the "oh she is stunning and this and that", maybe he can be picky because he can get almost anyone he wants. He cannot understand why I have it so tough.

 

 

Honestly I don't think I'll ever be that happy with these cards when it comes to dating, what I will have are tons are regrets that at various stages I wasn't a better person, that various opportunities never went my way and that like a pitcher I could never really get the one great pitch against a great player.

 

 

Well quite clearly the proliferation of sites like seeking arrangement and others indicate there are many people who cant make dating for them in a way that makes them happy so no the world doesn't seem to cater to the desires of most. Can you tell me whether tour partner is what you want?

 

 

Bridgit is right to an extent, what I can get doesn't interest me, what is hard to get really interests me. When it comes to what is gettable its all completely incompatible with me.

 

 

I'd rather keep half an eye on dating and most of my eyes on materialistic things but then I am accused of "not living" and "not getting experience", is there any point in getting experiences you don't really want?

 

 

In retrospect I shouldn't have gone on 95% of the dates I went on because I did so based on the idea I could learn something to use when I eventually did find someone I really liked, which proved patently false in every respect.

 

 

What I really want: Someone I really like to show some interest in me. Until then I'll amuse myself with chasing the materialistic wonders of life rather than that impossible spot in the NBA.

 

 

Of course the real problem is I have been wowed once and after that, its all I want to experience.

[Garcon1986]

I have been wowed by a stunning woman in Connecticut who rejected me for possibly not being forward enough on the first date, not being her type, or claiming she wasn't emotionally ready to date (code for I don't like you that way).

 

I still went on to have two amazing relationships and multiple interesting dating adventures after that.

 

I didn't let the single "wow" woman restrict my options.

 

Any reason why you keep on coming back here to look for sympathy? We are united in our advice that you either get more experience by dating "medium interesting" women until you snag the jackpot, or you stop and refrain from coming here posting about how the world won't provide you the kind of woman you prefer, or how you have a lack of experience and refuse to get more.

 

We can only show you where the water is to drink. If you make an informed adult decision to refuse our advice, you get to reap the consequences. Remember that as adults we have to take advice that is good for us regardless of how painful it is. Congratulations on finally agreeing to seeking out other women a few days back.