A lesson

[ZA Dater]

If you refuse to date women just for the experience try to flirt with the women around you, who are outside of work.

 

 

We are united in our position that you cannot gain experience by refusing to gain the experience. If you are here purely for the curing of loneliness and the experience of debate let us know, but you'll not get the "wow" woman by debating the citizens of Loveshack. You will lose that amazing woman because she will think you are weird and reject you because things don't feel right. The way to avoid losing the jackpot is to gain experience until you get to the right opportunity. Success is the intersection of opportunity and preparation.

 

 

 

I have been on countless dates. How many more pointless ones do you want me to go on with people I don't find attractive and intellectually interesting? What experience is to be gained from those date? Please do tell.

 

 

That's happened already more than once.

[Garcon1986]

You've told us you don't think you gained enough dating experience being intimate with women. So you feel inadequate in this arena. That's the area that leaves something to be desired.

 

 

Maybe the next time, you should date with some focused learning objectives. Or at least go to K with some focused learning objectives, and ask her some of the questions you've asked us.

[Garcon1986]

And also, you've not slept with a woman. There's an experience that has a lot of learning about her and yourself associated with it. It's possible to gain enough experience to get there. I would suggest you go to K with some focused learning questions.

[Normm]

I have been on countless dates. How many more pointless ones do you want me to go on with people I don't find attractive and intellectually interesting? What experience is to be gained from those date? Please do tell.

 

 

You just might get laid. That in of itself can be a big confidence builder. This is when you say "Oh I won't have sex with just anybody she's gotta be special". No one is better at deepening their own hole than you.

[ZA Dater]

If you're dating the bottom of the barrel and you buy them a drink and maybe an appetizer they'll absolutely soak up the attention like a sponge because they're not getting it anywhere else. You get practice, they get attention and sustenance. I call that win/win.

 

 

 

Been there done that and its interesting for all of 5 minutes, ok maybe 30 min.

[Garcon1986]

You've told us you don't think you gained enough dating experience being intimate with women. So you feel inadequate in this arena. That's the area that leaves something to be desired.

 

 

Maybe the next time, you should date with some focused learning objectives. Or at least go to K with some focused learning objectives, and ask her some of the questions you've asked us.

[ZA Dater]

You just might get laid. That in of itself can be a big confidence builder. This is when you say "Oh I won't have sex with just anybody she's gotta be special". No one is better at deepening their own hole than you.

 

 

 

Seemingly I have become so predictable you can type my posts for me.

 

 

And yes you are correct. No intellectual ability= no attraction of any sort. Even on the dates I have been on I cant say any of those were particularly into me that way.

[Garcon1986]

Why can't you join a physics/ chemical engineering/ debate/ philosophy club where all the smartypants go?

[ZA Dater]

You've told us you don't think you gained enough dating experience being intimate with women. So you feel inadequate in this arena. That's the area that leaves something to be desired.

 

 

Maybe the next time, you should date with some focused learning objectives. Or at least go to K with some focused learning objectives, and ask her some of the questions you've asked us.

 

 

 

I have always dated with specific objectives in mind, its how I work, almost everything works on an objective, except when I simply care about people there is no objective there.

 

 

People don't understand why I don't sit fawning over miss stunning, my friend cannot understand why I don't show much enthusiasm for the hot lady at the coffee shop, its simply really, its not gettable so why be enthusiastic about something which is frankly improbable. This is where I got into such an issue to begin with, I went on dates, chased people I did like and got hurt because it never worked, why, why get hurt about something which wasn't probable to begin with.

 

 

That's the thing really, people have tried to set me up with people from time to time but its never been useful help, its like setting up a NBA player to now play in the Ryder Cup. Yes, I am sure experience with a hot model would be fantastic, except it does not work in reality, all that happens is I feel really bad about myself so nothing good comes of it. They don't exactly show any interest in me either, many times I am some sort of "project" or pity project.

 

 

K works because we work on things, we create things, the fact we get on really well is what makes everything else work, she doesn't find me attractive in the dating sense, which I guess is regrettable but fine, for a while I thought I could win that race but clearly I cant. What I can get from her is the sense we work on things they become good things, I get to share my hobby with her and she sees the side of me none of the dates ever really do. She is just a nice person who gives me that challenge I enjoy.

 

 

So I go out on dates, there is nothing to bind anything together, what did you do last weekend "I drove the new Ferrari Portofino", most people cant relate to that or it sounds like boasting so I'll make up some other story which sounds more normal.

[ZA Dater]

Why can't you join a physics/ chemical engineering/ debate/ philosophy club where all the smartypants go?

 

 

 

Its got nothing to do with smart at all. Its got to do with people actually questioning life, questioning convention, wondering why things are like they are, being able to talk about various things. If someone is really good at that I can look past looks to a great degree.

 

 

It boils down to being exceptional at one thing but not average at everything. I know what I am good at, public speaking being one, debating being another, general knowledge, politics, geography, history but those things carry a non existent rating on the rating of attractiveness. I know this because I have asked people to critique me before and its always the same, they want what I mentioned in another post, none of which I have.

[ZA Dater]

If you refuse to date until you get the "A-list" woman then at least flirt and interact with women in a teasing and sexual manner at every opportunity. Let K show you what this actually is in real life. Ask her what a wonderful date entails and all the little subtle social cues that go into building a date into a BF/GF.

 

 

It's no use refusing to be a part of the dating game and then wondering why women don't let you in the front door. You can't gain experience by refusing to gain the experience.

 

 

 

I don't meet many women and when I do none are single. K, I think she allows me a lot of vicarious dating experience, after all she get the gifts and the loads of attention and seems to like it. I get to feel less lonely for a few hours.

 

 

All it took to woo her were three expensive dinner dates apparently.

[Garcon1986]

If that's what you believe then write down what you think you aren't good at in dating. Being a hunk and having a hot face are off the table, you already said it yourself.

 

 

Write down what you think you still aren't good at - and ask K to teach you about it.

 

 

Otherwise, here we go again on the epic cycle of dating debates that go on like the Stock market.

[normal person]

Why can't you join a physics/ chemical engineering/ debate/ philosophy club where all the smartypants go?

 

With all due respect, do these things even exist outside of colleges? For adults? When these threads pop up someone always suggests "join a club," but I've never heard of anyone with or without dating issues belonging to something like this.

 

So I go out on dates, there is nothing to bind anything together, what did you do last weekend "I drove the new Ferrari Portofino", most people cant relate to that or it sounds like boasting so I'll make up some other story which sounds more normal.

 

Big mistake, in my opinion. You have something that can set you apart from everyone else and make you interesting and exciting -- and you designate it as a turnoff. Even if someone's knowledge of supercars isn't on the same level of yours, you can at least talk about what you do, why you like it, why it's exciting to you, and show maybe a picture or two of the cars. Odds are you won't be able to relate to the minutiae of her work/hobbies but you'll get to learn something deeper than surface level info that you might be able to connect on. Maybe you can find common ground on certain elements of your passions, or your approaches to things, or your attitudes about them. That's much more important than whether or not you "like" the exact same thing.

 

If I was a woman and you talked excitedly and tastefully about your work with the supercars, and made an effort to keep the conversation at a level that was relatable, I'd be fascinated. Women might not know as much about cars as you, but I'm fairly positive that if you pulled out a picture of whatever you've gotten to drive recently, her interest would be at least piqued.

[Garcon1986]

If you are no longer willing to date, use your social club status and need for smart people to maneuver yourself into a position that other people will introduce you to singles. You seem to be the kind of man who is very unpalatable on the first date, but if the lady gets to know you, your redeeming qualities start to shine.

 

 

It's OK to make the informed decision to stop approaching women because it makes you anxious about wasting your time, but it's not OK to keep on debating us and carrying on griping about how women won't give you the time of day. I sense part of you is conflicted and still wants female companionship - you'll have to learn the more detailed points of flirting, and at the same time maneuver your way socially to groups of people who show the life smarts you desire.

 

 

Remember you are talking to an Asian man in Mississippi, who is surrounded by Southerners who want only hot policemen or firefighters as husbands, who then divorce after 1 year of having a kid, because they didn't realize how stressful that sort of relationship is. In the South it's a revolving door of hot people get together, divorce because they couldn't stop fighting, and I'm left outside to either whine about being excluded or do something with my life. I hear your plight, but you will have to use your incredible obstinancy to get behind a cause that will actually help you. For me it's driving out of State. For you - you will have to search different approaches.

[Garcon1986]

Normal person, there are meetups for these things on meetup.com Maybe not those exact topics though. I will concede that point.

 

 

ZA Dater has tried to speak with women who share his car interest but they don't intellectually check his boxes.

[Garcon1986]

ZA Dater, I'm going to try and start a salsa club at my university, with me as the teacher.

[Garcon1986]

You haven't used K to teach you appropriate arm rubbing/ touching/ sexual body language eh? That's a learning opportunity.

[ZA Dater]

 

Big mistake, in my opinion. You have something that can set you apart from everyone else and make you interesting and exciting -- and you designate it as a turnoff. Even if someone's knowledge of supercars isn't on the same level of yours, you can at least talk about what you do, why you like it, why it's exciting to you, and show maybe a picture or two of the cars. Odds are you won't be able to relate to the minutiae of her work/hobbies but you'll get to learn something deeper than surface level info that you might be able to connect on. Maybe you can find common ground on certain elements of your passions, or your approaches to things, or your attitudes about them. That's much more important than whether or not you "like" the exact same thing.

 

If I was a woman and you talked excitedly and tastefully about your work with the supercars, and made an effort to keep the conversation at a level that was relatable, I'd be fascinated. Women might not know as much about cars as you, but I'm fairly positive that if you pulled out a picture of whatever you've gotten to drive recently, her interest would be at least piqued.

 

 

The problem in the past has been it tends to close the conversation down rather than open it up. I tried to figure out why and came to the following

1: they don't relate

2: its seen as boasting but I definitely don't deliver it like that

 

 

I agree with you, I'd have thought it would make me stand out, show there is something different but its the same when I bring up the novel I am writing, the conversation get closed down rather than opened up, they don't tend to take any interest at all or offer up anything, this is my chief irritation.

 

 

Always I am happy to try and learn from them when it comes to hobbies but believe it or not I have sat down with people who have none, on more than one occasion too. There is not that interest show in me ever. Agreed again on trying to find attitudes and belief but again it just doesn't happen.

 

 

 

What is fairly important to me is to keep things relatable so I try very hard to accomplish that in life in general and yes when I sit on a date I try and talk excitedly about things in a relatable way but again its so frustrating because they just sit there or when I expect them to do the same about something they like it never happens.

[Garcon1986]

You ever showed K your failed conversations with women? Ask her why they didn't relate to you?

[ZA Dater]

If you are no longer willing to date, use your social club status and need for smart people to maneuver yourself into a position that other people will introduce you to singles. You seem to be the kind of man who is very unpalatable on the first date, but if the lady gets to know you, your redeeming qualities start to shine.

 

 

It's OK to make the informed decision to stop approaching women because it makes you anxious about wasting your time, but it's not OK to keep on debating us and carrying on griping about how women won't give you the time of day. I sense part of you is conflicted and still wants female companionship - you'll have to learn the more detailed points of flirting, and at the same time maneuver your way socially to groups of people who show the life smarts you desire.

 

 

Remember you are talking to an Asian man in Mississippi, who is surrounded by Southerners who want only hot policemen or firefighters as husbands, who then divorce after 1 year of having a kid, because they didn't realize how stressful that sort of relationship is. In the South it's a revolving door of hot people get together, divorce because they couldn't stop fighting, and I'm left outside to either whine about being excluded or do something with my life. I hear your plight, but you will have to use your incredible obstinancy to get behind a cause that will actually help you. For me it's driving out of State. For you - you will have to search different approaches.

 

 

 

I have never approached women and I don't intend to either. Doing so gives them full power to reject you and in my case it will only be rejection when they have tons of options. I refuse to give women that power over me or that ability to make me that unhappy.

 

 

Ok I did approach perhaps 3 and all 3 rejected me, in all 3 instances she had her friends around her.

 

 

Sure those I like, I don't have anything they like so its a loss situation.

 

 

You'd be amazed South Africa isn't a lot different I can relate to that in many respects, except her you need to love rugby, love drinking or love all of those and go to church, its vital, some dates refused to see me again because I didn't go to church.

[ZA Dater]

You ever showed K your failed conversations with women? Ask her why they didn't relate to you?

 

 

 

She encouraged me to write the blog, whether she knows she will be featured I have no idea.... She knows I am useless at dating in fact its become a bit of a joke between us.

 

 

I also think in part its why she does sort of let me vicariously "date" her in a harmless friend zone sense. Look with her I open up a lot more than with others, she sees me good and bad and I can simply be the best me around her, which makes me feel good.

[Garcon1986]

Then what about maneuvering your way to social scenes that have more women with the smarts you desire?

 

 

I approach women knowing full well they have the right to reject me, but I don't care anymore. Did you know the first time I got rejected, it was with an online date, and I was so distraught I took a picture of a person I never met before, and tore it up and threw it in a river? Came a long way since then. I look back and laugh at my 23 year old self. Not caring about women until they care about me has given me so much more opportunity. I still stay civil and charming while not caring.

 

 

And you know what - other countries have need for men with your skillset.

[normal person]

I agree with you, I'd have thought it would make me stand out, show there is something different but its the same when I bring up the novel I am writing, the conversation get closed down rather than opened up, they don't tend to take any interest at all or offer up anything, this is my chief irritation.

 

[...]

There is not that interest show in me ever. Agreed again on trying to find attitudes and belief but again it just doesn't happen.

 

[...]

What is fairly important to me is to keep things relatable so I try very hard to accomplish that in life in general and yes when I sit on a date I try and talk excitedly about things in a relatable way but again its so frustrating because they just sit there or when I expect them to do the same about something they like it never happens.

 

You make it seem like you simply don't meet people who are anything but uninterested and dull towards you or life in general. I find that a little hard to believe considering in my single days I never met anyone like that. I've never had a woman not ask me about my work, what I like about it, etc. Also when it comes up I've also never not reciprocated. If I was on the fence about someone who mentioned to me that they were writing a novel and/or drove supercars, I'd be ordering a few more drinks because I'd want to hear all about it -- unless my mind was already solidly made up that I found the person to unsuitable for me. It's getting hard to comprehend this "everyone I date is just uninterested in supercars and/or life in general" train of thought. Maybe something else about the interaction is turning them off beforehand?

 

Anyways, I'm out of here for now, happy new year's ZA and everyone else. 'Hope 2019 goes well for you.

[Garcon1986]

By the way, I had to put a lot of work into my stoneface.

[Normm]

Been there done that and its interesting for all of 5 minutes, ok maybe 30 min.

 

 

You get out of it what you put into it. No surprise you walk away disappointed.

 

Change it up a bit. Say you're chatting with a woman who has nothing to say that's interesting. Look at her chest- if she's wearing something low cut and moves around and leans forward while one of you is talking try to get a glimpse of areola. Maybe even a hint of nipple. It helps pass the time.