A lesson

[ZA Dater]

I have been wowed by a stunning woman in Connecticut who rejected me for possibly not being forward enough on the first date, not being her type, or claiming she wasn't emotionally ready to date (code for I don't like you that way).

 

I still went on to have two amazing relationships and multiple interesting dating adventures after that.

 

I didn't let the single "wow" woman restrict my options.

 

We can only show you where the water is to drink. If you make an informed adult decision to refuse our advice, you get to reap the consequences. Remember that as adults we have to take advice that is good for us regardless of how painful it is. Congratulations on finally agreeing to seeking out other women a few days back.

 

 

 

Brother, trust me I live with the decisions I made 15 years ago each and every day when it comes to dating.

 

 

What do you find interesting dating wise? For me interesting is someone who makes me think, makes me question, intrigues me but maybe I have just become numb to it but few people ever seem to tick those boxes.

 

 

The other women ultimately didn't appeal to me, there no real connection at all, she was pretty enough but thanks to her profession I found it hard to believe much of what she told me. May see her again but only as a friend.

 

 

I just don't the find the "water" that appealing at the moment, is some of that my fault, sure it is, others seem to be quite happy with the people they date, I never find any I want to actually date who wants to date me, that's me and only me. Is it a fundamental problem, maybe but I cannot bring myself to date people who offer no intellectual connection, irrespective of how hot they might be.

 

 

What the real problem is I need someone I connect with on multiple levels, sadly I don't think that person really exists in so much as they like me. Either I try accept something else, make myself into something else, pursue different sorts of people and pretend I like them, be me and refocus on different things and put the dating book aside, do I fear being all alone, yes I do but at the same token I cannot like people I don't like.

 

 

I have never really been a "people" person per se, yes I can do speeches, I can do conversation but I would say its very difficult for me to make friends. Its always been difficult, I went through school with two friends. In the back of my mind I cant but help wonder if this isn't the fundamental problem why I fail so miserably at dating.

 

 

Normal Person is right though, I need to find some sort of balance, whatever that is. My life revolves around chasing objectives and maybe I need to focus on those hopefully attainable ones rather dating which seems less attainable. Unfortunately those objectives don't give me anyone to share things with, nobody to buy things for, nobody to take an interest in and nobody to talk to. I tell myself though that maybe those objectives if I attain them will give some of the tools I need to be attractive to someone.

 

 

Maybe I'll just keep chasing the impossible in my mind knowing I cant achieve it but its better than chasing nothing, maybe I'll admit friend zone is the best I can do.

[ZA Dater]

I didn't let the single "wow" woman restrict my options.

 

 

 

 

Every person I meet is ranked against that wow benchmark. See I don't allow a lot of room for emotions BUT she managed to get to my emotional side. I had a major situation in my family in my early 20's which lead to years where I simply had to find super human levels of emotional strength, breaking down was not an option and perhaps it shaped what I am now.

 

 

Wow gave me a lot more than I gave her, motivation to be a better me for one, motivation to try being another and I think somehow I believed dating was like work, you can keep trying and ultimately find success, you can analyse and understand the problems and correct then, which I can do in a company because the fundamentals are mostly the same, I cannot do it in the dating because the fundamentals are never the same. Which then makes me look at the competition to understand what they have I don't to understand why their product is better than mine, which again is impossible because I don't feel I am inferior to the competition in most respect when it comes to the core person I am and the beliefs I have.

 

 

I tried to look at others, understand why they were successful and am not. I looked at the match up, tried to understand what each saw in the other and could never really understand. I then weighted these guys against me own value system and found we never really matched up. I am not the assertive guy, I am the quiet guy who gets things done, the type people phone in the middle of the night because they know I'll help.

 

 

Am I the alpha type guy, probably not, I was but was when I was younger but people saw that as being aggressive so now I am very careful to paint a placid picture and be an easy going person.

 

 

Ultimately I can try and compete and accept I wont win but take some sort of solace in turning up to run the race. That's pretty much where I am and have been for a while, run but wont expect to win but be strong because I know I am good person.

[Garcon1986]

Any woman that fits the bill of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Fry

 

She's a mathematician and a spectacular person.

 

Is my dream date; I want intellectual depth, someone who generally has a positive attitude, someone who shares joy for her work, someone who cares about staying physically fit, and someone who has this charming confidence. I'll take people who have a lot less confidence also - it widens my possible dating pool. If I met another Hannah Fry I would almost not need to date, just go buy the ring right now. Of course I won't wait for only mathematicians - other folks who have the fire in the eye, that have achieved self actualization, who really are goal oriented, I also really fancy.

 

My strategy is to date people who can check some of those boxes, so when the demanding and high taste woman Hannah Fry comes along in my life, I'll be skilled enough with my social skills to sweep her off her feet. Where I disagree with you is that you refuse to date anyone who doesn't check all your boxes - they are automatically unattractive. I can date someone who checks even 1/3 of my boxes, just to learn the experience, and in turn pledge not to string her along and do anything too intimate so I'm not the guy leaving broken hearts and a trail of emotional devastation as a pick up artist only interested in the vagina. I understand you are not that guy - but women have to be rightfully wary of these guys. Dating such people doesn't count as using someone in my book.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Garcon1986

[Normm]

Frame any suggestion that implies success is likely dependent on stepping out of comfort zone as "not being true to one's self," dismiss suggestion and insist that anyone who does such things is a "sheep,"

 

 

Nailed it.

[Garcon1986]

Indeed we are all inclusive here and don't discriminate, so cows, horses, and feral cats are also included on top of sheep.

[Normm]

Indeed we are all inclusive here and don't discriminate, so cows, horses, and feral cats are also included on top of sheep.

 

 

It's been suggested that ZA consider dating down to improve his odds but that's a bit much.

[Garcon1986]

haha that was my try at online dry humor

[ZA Dater]

It's been suggested that ZA consider dating down to improve his odds but that's a bit much.

 

Have you dated down that you consider this suggestion to be such a good one?

[elaine567]

Have you dated down that you consider this suggestion to be such a good one?

Everyone has dated down either intentionally or non-intentionally, it is all part of the game, all part of gaining experience.

No-one just grabs a ball one day and suddenly becomes a world class soccer player do they? So why would dating be any different?

 

We all kiss a lot of frogs before we find our prince, and as you will also eventually find out, princes can sometimes unexpectedly turn back into frogs too...

[brigit87]

Everyone has dated down either intentionally or non-intentionally, it is all part of the game, all part of gaining experience.

No-one just grabs a ball one day and suddenly becomes a world class soccer player do they? So why would dating be any different?

 

We all kiss a lot of frogs before we find our prince, and as you will also eventually find out, princes can sometimes unexpectedly turn back into frogs too...

 

I'm going to go against the grain here due to the excessiveness of OP's thought patterns.

 

OP, Don't date "down." It's unfair to the women going on the date who might actually like you. Using people is wrong.

 

I honestly don't know what you "should" do. That is something you'll figure out in time.

[elaine567]

I'm going to go against the grain here due to the excessiveness of OP's thought patterns.

 

OP, Don't date "down." It's unfair to the women going on the date who might actually like you. Using people is wrong.

 

I honestly don't know what you "should" do. That is something you'll figure out in time.

 

 

In time?

He's 34, how much "time" does he need?

He has dated what he feels are "no hopers", they don't measure up, he has dated above his league, he doesn't measure up.

It is a fundamental mismatch.

Very few of the "wow" woman he wants, are going to give him a chance, so it is up to him to change his game.

He has never got past the first date so how does he know what or who he really wants?

No-one is suggesting he uses anyone, but until he finds out what makes women in general tick, then he is never going to "get it".

[brigit87]

In time?

He's 34, how much "time" does he need?

He has dated what he feels are "no hopers", they don't measure up, he has dated above his league, he doesn't measure up.

It is a fundamental mismatch.

Very few of the "wow" woman he wants, are going to give him a chance, so it is up to him to change his game.

He has never got past the first date so how does he know what or who he really wants?

No-one is suggesting he uses anyone, but until he finds out what makes women in general tick, then he is never going to "get it".

 

He might need five years, ten years or twenty years. He doesn't have a biological clock and I don't think he even wants kids anyway. Not now. For a man, 34 is quite young. Perhaps he can travel, learn about different religions, spend time building houses for the homeless. IDK. But if he continues to date he'll get nowhere. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is insane.

 

He needs to grow emotionally and spiritually before real change can happen.

[Normm]

Have you dated down that you consider this suggestion to be such a good one?

 

Wasn't ever an issue for me when I was dating. I'd go through profiles, and message women that seemed attractive based on their pictures and sometimes what they wrote in the description. I'd get around a 20% return response rate and was never short of dates for each weekend.

 

I'd say the women I dated ranged between 8.5 to 9 with a few 10s that really turned heads when we went out.

 

But your situation is different from mine so my experiences are irrelevant. For you dating down might mean you're only going to get dates from fat pigs. If I was in your shoes I'd rather not date at all. Which is what you're doing of course, the difference being you complain about it incessantly without ever changing your approach.

[ZA Dater]

Wasn't ever an issue for me when I was dating. I'd go through profiles, and message women that seemed attractive based on their pictures and sometimes what they wrote in the description. I'd get around a 20% return response rate and was never short of dates for each weekend.

 

I'd say the women I dated ranged between 8.5 to 9 with a few 10s that really turned heads when we went out.

 

But your situation is different from mine so my experiences are irrelevant. For you dating down might mean you're only going to get dates from fat pigs. If I was in your shoes I'd rather not date at all. Which is what you're doing of course, the difference being you complain about it incessantly without ever changing your approach.

 

 

 

Great, dispatch advice you yourself have never used. I am glad you can find 9s and 10's on OLD but having had a look stateside I'll believe you on that one.

 

 

Exactly I rather chase than date what I don't want. Did you ever change your approach or is it another "I never had to"...

 

 

For all the snide comments you and I aren't that much different in thought process.

[ZA Dater]

Everyone has dated down either intentionally or non-intentionally, it is all part of the game, all part of gaining experience.

No-one just grabs a ball one day and suddenly becomes a world class soccer player do they? So why would dating be any different?

 

We all kiss a lot of frogs before we find our prince, and as you will also eventually find out, princes can sometimes unexpectedly turn back into frogs too...

 

 

 

Tell me this then, how many people have you dated, sorry used to gain experience, people you just strung along with no intention of ever actually dating them seriously?

 

 

Sorry this mumbo jumbo about work ones way up is to me double speak, you are either attractive to people are not, you can go on 100 dates with 100 people but that wont make you anymore attractive.

[Normm]

Great, dispatch advice you yourself have never used.

 

 

More like dispatch advice YOU will never use, just like the advice provided by countless other posters over 1000s of threads and several years of chasing your tail.

 

 

Did you ever change your approach or is it another "I never had to"...

 

 

I never had to. Online dating was very good for me, I dated dozens of women, had several long term relationships including the 7 year one I'm in right now.

 

 

For all the snide comments you and I aren't that much different in thought process.

 

 

Yeah but I've got an exponentially greater chance of getting my penis sucked tonight than you do.

[ZA Dater]

I'm going to go against the grain here due to the excessiveness of OP's thought patterns.

 

OP, Don't date "down." It's unfair to the women going on the date who might actually like you. Using people is wrong.

 

I honestly don't know what you "should" do. That is something you'll figure out in time.

 

 

 

Thank you! At least one person here who thinks in a similar way. I hate being used but I hate using others more so the idea of dating someone for experience is an extremely unappealing one.

[Garcon1986]

If you refuse to date women just for the experience try to flirt with the women around you, who are outside of work.

 

 

We are united in our position that you cannot gain experience by refusing to gain the experience. If you are here purely for the curing of loneliness and the experience of debate let us know, but you'll not get the "wow" woman by debating the citizens of Loveshack. You will lose that amazing woman because she will think you are weird and reject you because things don't feel right. The way to avoid losing the jackpot is to gain experience until you get to the right opportunity. Success is the intersection of opportunity and preparation.

[ZA Dater]

In time?

He's 34, how much "time" does he need?

He has dated what he feels are "no hopers", they don't measure up, he has dated above his league, he doesn't measure up.

It is a fundamental mismatch.

Very few of the "wow" woman he wants, are going to give him a chance, so it is up to him to change his game.

He has never got past the first date so how does he know what or who he really wants?

No-one is suggesting he uses anyone, but until he finds out what makes women in general tick, then he is never going to "get it".

 

 

 

Actually not so sure about "dated above his range"...I don't measure up to those people because they have fundamentally more choice and different choice to me. I only bothered going after K because I thought she was gettable, I am very realistic but honestly for years now there really hasn't been anyone who I have liked who is gettable, there have been a few I have liked but why bother when they have tons of choices?

 

 

Mostly I don't get past the first date and in 99.9% of times I am glad because the people don't interest me at all.

 

 

Women love anyone who conforms, anyone who can give them a lifestyle they want, anyone who can throw compliments and laughter around while taking them on great dinner dates, they want the big muscle bound guys who everyone else looks at because women want someone who is coveted by others. They want someone their friends will like and someone who will like they friends, they want someone they can show off to their friends as a sign of what they can attract, they want Casanova who can do all the things they read about in magazines in the bedroom. Apparently women are so particular they want a man who drives a certain way, drives a certain car, a man who can socialise their "besties" boyfriend. Oh and he should be fun. Whatever that is.

 

 

I have lost out to these men continually and will continue to do so because I am not that person and never will be nor do I want to be.

 

 

And yes for all of this they will overlook basically anything else. Honesty, who needs that, a decent job and motivation in life, not important, caring, not important either, in fact personality traits appear completely unimportant full stop. Oh and if they are insular and selfish that's not important either, in fact both those characteristics I see in almost all instances where I lost out.

 

 

Again I have been the crutch more often than not in these dis functional relationships, the glue of which seems completely illogical to me but I hold my head up because I know as a person I am better than most of these men and that's the quiet comfort I take from dating.

 

 

My hobbies have brought me greater joy than any dating experience, the only thing which makes these hobbies is even better is someone I like to enjoy them with some of the time and I mostly have that so when the dice fall I don't think I have done too badly based on the fact I meet absolutely zero of the criteria that women want.

[Garcon1986]

Job, income, something that makes you happy, have your own home - these are several things that women like. So it's not true you have nothing women want.

[losangelena]

For you dating down might mean you're only going to get dates from fat pigs.

 

Well aren’t you a gentleman. Charming.

[normal person]

Thank you! At least one person here who thinks in a similar way. I hate being used but I hate using others more so the idea of dating someone for experience is an extremely unappealing one.

 

Most people don't see casual dating as "using" people. You've got to break some eggs to make an omelette. Kind of like when you drive a car you accept the risk that you might crash, when you enter the dating arena, you accept the risk that things won't always run smoothly or comfortably. And they don't for anyone. You date some people and learn from the experience, and they learn from it too. It's a necessary step in whittling down the pool of options, figuring out the things you like, figuring out the things you don't like, and preparing yourself for someone you're both better suited for. Most likely the couples you saw in high school aren't still together. It's not because they were being "used," by each other, they probably enjoyed the experience at the time and learned a good deal from it about relationships and themselves, even.

[Garcon1986]

Indeed ZA Dater do you consider going to the grocery store, using the ladies at the cash register?

 

 

Is riding a bus considered using the bus driver?

Is getting your drivers license considered using the clerk?

[Normm]

I hate being used but I hate using others more so the idea of dating someone for experience is an extremely unappealing one.

 

 

If you're dating the bottom of the barrel and you buy them a drink and maybe an appetizer they'll absolutely soak up the attention like a sponge because they're not getting it anywhere else. You get practice, they get attention and sustenance. I call that win/win.

[Garcon1986]

In the end the citizens of Loveshack don't truly care if you get a wife or not. For all we know you might be a Dachshund. Improve your life for yourself. Potential energy spent on debating other Dachshunds on Loveshack is just wasted energy, doomed to increase the entropy of the universe. If you refuse to date until you get the "A-list" woman then at least flirt and interact with women in a teasing and sexual manner at every opportunity. Let K show you what this actually is in real life. Ask her what a wonderful date entails and all the little subtle social cues that go into building a date into a BF/GF.

 

 

It's no use refusing to be a part of the dating game and then wondering why women don't let you in the front door. You can't gain experience by refusing to gain the experience.