Am I Receiving Partial Truth?

[oldshirt]

 

. The uncertainty of going from the known into the realm of the unknown if frightening, because I can't tell which realm will provide me the most happiness.

 

Decisions made based on fear are very very very very ever the right decision.

 

 

 

 

I'm older than most on this board and have been through a very wide range of experiences and have friends and family that have been through a lot over the years as well.

 

 

One of the things I have learned in my 51 years is that the people in the world who have been the most squared away and the most successful and have weathered the most storms and came out of it in one piece, feel no less fear, no less anxiety, no less sadness and no less internal conflict than anyone else.

 

 

They just do what they know they have to do for their own long term well being in spite of the acute fear they feel in the moment.

 

 

Courage is not a lack of fear. Courage is doing what ya gotta do in spite of fear.

 

 

The situation you are in requires strength and courage to save your own sanity and well being. Fear, sadness and angst are going to be part and parcel of the ordeal, you aren't going to be able to get rid of those. You have to sludge through it and rise above it.

 

 

The bottom line here is you are being mistreated by someone displaying bad behavior and you are in a toxic relationship and environment. The more you allow yourself to be mistreated and the more you sit in the toxic environment, the worse off you become.

 

 

There may be fear of the unknown that is out there. But you are currently sitting in a known toxic environment. It's like being in a burning house. you may have fear that if you run out of the house, your future in uncertain and you may have to live with friends and family or in a motel for awhile or even be homeless for awhile. But if you stay in the house, you will burn up.

 

 

The smoke is already burning your eyes and throat and your hair is starting to get singed. how much longer are you going to take the heat???

[Lois_Griffin]

She'll say something like she can't believe I would think that of her, or that's disgusting, or it's sad that I would think so lowly of her. Given the facts, I can't tell when I should let up and believe that she's told me everything and that all the trickling is tapped out.

Hell, I don't even KNOW her and I think she's about as low as a woman can get.

 

Look. This ain't rocket science. She's a lying cheat who obviously has no qualms about passing herself around to anyone who'll have her. Then she comes home, cries her fake tears of 'remorse' (she wouldn't know what remorse IS), makes you feel bad for believing the 'worst' about her (which you SHOULD because she IS the worst) and tries to mindf*ck you into thinking it was all YOUR fault that this happened. What a piece of work.

 

Jesus, take her the hell off the pedestal you have her up on and see her for what she really is. She's a freakin' disgrace.

[Lois_Griffin]

I appreciate the warm welcome. I know none of us wanted to end up here, but I'm glad I at least have other people to share the asscrack of reality with. I believe I will take the red pill. Speaking of that VAR. Would there be any point in it now that she's not cheating and claims she hasn't told anyone?

Sigh.

 

What's the POINT of 'gathering' more evidence when you're clearly too passive to stand up to this lying cheater and actually DO something about it? As another poster said, women don't respect cowardly, passive men who do whatever they tell them to do and that's all she's done for years, obviously. You said yourself you always keep quiet and don't fight her on stuff and she always gets her way.

 

All you've done is show her that you're too passive and weak to stand up for yourself and that is so unattractive on so many levels - and why she clearly DOESNT respect you.

 

And THAT, kind sir, will continue to get you steamrolled, cheated on, lied to and taken advantage of.

 

Find your spine.

[OldRover]

Hell, I don't even KNOW her and I think she's about as low as a woman can get.

 

Look. This ain't rocket science. She's a lying cheat who obviously has no qualms about passing herself around to anyone who'll have her. Then she comes home, cries her fake tears of 'remorse' (she wouldn't know what remorse IS), makes you feel bad for believing the 'worst' about her (which you SHOULD because she IS the worst) and tries to mindf*ck you into thinking it was all YOUR fault that this happened. What a piece of work.

 

Jesus, take her the hell off the pedestal you have her up on and see her for what she really is. She's a freakin' disgrace.

 

Lois,

 

You're a bit hard on this lady... she's bad, but far from the lowest. She could have some mental and/or emotional problems that can be treated, we don't know that. She may really be remorse but doesn't know how to deal with it.

 

Tom is doing the best he can, and I commend him for the choices. He's in the drivers seat and can do whatever he wants, and that includes permanently leaving her to trying to save things... his choice.

 

There's lots of reasons why people cheat, and not sure we know exactly what motivated this girl (Tom may not know, either, but he's searching for answers).

[Bryanp]

A question for you. If the roles had been reversed do you honestly think your wife would have been so accepting as you have been until recently? I hope you have gotten tested for STD's.

 

By the way, her constant lying about the whole situation shows how little respect she has had for you and your marriage. Please remember this:

 

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF, THEN WHO WILL?

[aliveagain]

So she got into it with me today. I was going to buy her a new phone, and I was going to take her old one. We had a partial agreement on that before. Then, she asked me this evening for my honest opinion of if I wanted her old phone. I said no. Her face instantly changed. She asked me why. I said it's because that's the phone that was with you during the whole ordeal. It, as well as many other things, act as triggers that make relive the horror of the infidelity. She acted like that was frustrating, and acted like I am not understanding of the fact that she is going through something too. I told her, well you don't even ask about the articles I mentioned to read, and she acted like I should send them to her. I told her that she should be more proactive, and show me that she actually cares. She acted like I am not supportive or understanding or something and I said that she stabbed me right in the back and I am still here supporting her, waiting patiently for over six months. She said something like, well do you even want to be here. I looked her in the eye and firmly said "NO, not if this does not change". I felt my heart get tugged at that moment because her whole facial expression instantly changed, like I wounded her. It hurt me so bad to do that, but I had to continue. I said that I will leave tomorrow, and pack whatever few things I can, and be out of her life tomorrow if it's not going to change, because I cannot live confined like this for the rest of my life. I just refuse to do that. She stumbled out of the kitchen and said she had to go lie down. What an ordeal? I don't even know what the next step is now. I go blank on all of the advice when I'm in the middle of an event.

 

You've drawn your line in the sand now defend it. Do not move the line because she will test you, doing so will make you look weak and weak is not an attractive trait to someone trying to justify her affairs. It is her responsibility to prove to you without a shadow of a doubt that genital sex didn't happen. You already have enough information about the other types of sex that happened to file for divorce. This is your call because if she can't understand or appreciate the gift you've given her, don't give it. How many guys will it take before you enforce your rights? Fidelity isn't optional, three year marriage, three different guys so far. Sharing her with other men is way worse than divorcing her. Hold your ground.

[ShatteredLady]

I read this somewhere. It's not my idea. Sorry if it's a member here & I'm not crediting you.

 

This seemed to make sense to my husband when I felt HE wanted MY sympathy & understanding....

 

If he had beaten me & pushed me down the stairs it would of hurt LESS! No-one would expect me to analyze what I did to MAKE him push me down!! I wouldn't be expected to understand how much he enjoyed pushing me & what an emotional ordeal he was going through while he beat me!! Adultery is abuse. At some point we may get to a place where we understand but WE WILL NEVER have sympathy for them abusing us. They need to STOP expecting it! My H seems to get that now.

 

The "I'm hurting too!" drove me insane. Talk about 'Trigger', he's lucky I didn't have one on a gun to pull!!!

[tomcook]

Brother, it's clear that you're just staying out of fear. I get it. I was there, too.

 

A good therapist helps you look directly at those fears and to realize that once you confront them, they're not as scary as you thought.

 

I appreciate it you mentioning that. It settles a lot of the fears involved with it. BetrayedH, I also wonder if she really is trying. She says she is trying hard. I was thinking to myself, am I really upset because what happened was a known dealbreaker for me? Am I in one of those situations where no matter what she does, I am still going to have the lingering desire to not be with her anymore? Either way, I do think I am headed in the right direction. I get a little closer each time. It's just a slow process for me I guess.

[tomcook]

I think the people who regret "not trying" are the people who committed the wrongdoing and didn't do anything to try to rectify it.

 

 

People who were the ones wronged by other's bad actions, don't carry that baggage.

 

 

Take it from someone who has been there, done that - when someone is mistreating you and giving you the shaft, your regrets in later years are that you didn't break away sooner and save yourself additional grief and wasted time.

 

 

"trying" is when you did something wrong and need to make amends or if you completely dropped the ball through laziness and inaction and you need to put in some sincere effort.

 

 

Getting away from a toxic situation is just simply good sense and the regret you will feel in later years is that you allowed yourself to sit in the toxin and get more polluted longer than you needed to.

 

That is a very interesting way to look at it. I like that. I mean, yeah, I know I was a little lazy, but I did so much walking on eggshells to keep her happy among other things, it was ridiculous. In the end, she still wasn't happy, so why should I regret not trying. I did try, and I tried for 6 months after the ordeal.

[tomcook]

Decisions made based on fear are very very very very ever the right decision.

 

 

 

 

I'm older than most on this board and have been through a very wide range of experiences and have friends and family that have been through a lot over the years as well.

 

 

One of the things I have learned in my 51 years is that the people in the world who have been the most squared away and the most successful and have weathered the most storms and came out of it in one piece, feel no less fear, no less anxiety, no less sadness and no less internal conflict than anyone else.

 

 

They just do what they know they have to do for their own long term well being in spite of the acute fear they feel in the moment.

 

 

Courage is not a lack of fear. Courage is doing what ya gotta do in spite of fear.

 

 

The situation you are in requires strength and courage to save your own sanity and well being. Fear, sadness and angst are going to be part and parcel of the ordeal, you aren't going to be able to get rid of those. You have to sludge through it and rise above it.

 

 

The bottom line here is you are being mistreated by someone displaying bad behavior and you are in a toxic relationship and environment. The more you allow yourself to be mistreated and the more you sit in the toxic environment, the worse off you become.

 

 

There may be fear of the unknown that is out there. But you are currently sitting in a known toxic environment. It's like being in a burning house. you may have fear that if you run out of the house, your future in uncertain and you may have to live with friends and family or in a motel for awhile or even be homeless for awhile. But if you stay in the house, you will burn up.

 

 

The smoke is already burning your eyes and throat and your hair is starting to get singed. how much longer are you going to take the heat???

 

Oldshirt, I appreciate this very thoughtful post. I like the burning house analogy. I'm worried about the unknown of what's most likely the better choice for me, so I've chosen to stay in this burning house. I can tell that it's getting to me.

[tomcook]

Sigh.

 

What's the POINT of 'gathering' more evidence when you're clearly too passive to stand up to this lying cheater and actually DO something about it? As another poster said, women don't respect cowardly, passive men who do whatever they tell them to do and that's all she's done for years, obviously. You said yourself you always keep quiet and don't fight her on stuff and she always gets her way.

 

All you've done is show her that you're too passive and weak to stand up for yourself and that is so unattractive on so many levels - and why she clearly DOESNT respect you.

 

And THAT, kind sir, will continue to get you steamrolled, cheated on, lied to and taken advantage of.

 

Find your spine.

 

You've got a good point Lois_Griffin. She could have done worse obviously, so I still don't consider her the worst woman in the world, but you are spot on about the passive part. She's even said that **** herself. My grandma and mom were exactly the same.

[sidney2718]

I can't always talk freely about the cheating episodes without it backfiring on me through means of hurting her feelings arguments that I lose. So, instead of talking it out daily like I would have wanted to, I suppress everything for periods of time, just to avoid even MORE discomfort if I was to bring anything up.

 

This is it in a nutshell. She should be bending over backwards to answer your questions. She should be willing to tell you everything.

 

She's not. And you know why she's not. She wants to bury those events.

 

What you need to do is clear. You have to risk your marriage to save it. Bring up the cheating episodes. If she goes the "you are hurting my feelings" route, tell her point blank that you know that you are doing that. Then tell her that the alternative is divorce.

 

Be hard.

 

It will be hard for you. But you have to do this or you will never know the truth.

 

Remember, nobody here, probably including you, believes her story.

[sidney2718]

Originally Posted by tomcook 

.She just got out of a breakup at that time and wanted to become more religious/faithful.

 

Am I reading this right? She wasn't faithful in a previous relationship? Violated God's rules?

 

This isn't her first time around the block, is it?

Edited August 29, 2015 by sidney2718

[fellini]

Personally, I think you have been getting a lot of one sided advice, pushing really, you out the door. So I wish to be a voice for another perspective. And frankly, I don't get it.

 

If you are not ready to walk out the door, you are not ready. And whether you do eventually walk out the door should have nothing to do with anonymous people calling you cowardly, a wuss, etc, but because you do that for the right reasons. And there are no "objective" right reasons: you leave her because it is the right thing to do for you, or you stay and try to reconcile because that is what you want.

 

You are only 6 months post DDay and you clearly do not have your head sorted out. You are in post affair limbo, and many of these same people who are telling you to leave now, have been through this.

 

But let me assure you like anything in life, ONE MUST GO THROUGH THE STEPS to get to the other side! Just because some of these guys "know" what they know they did does not mean they know what YOU SHOULD DO. You didn't marry THEIR betraying spouses. Infidelity might have common ground, but EVERY person who commits it has their own resources and strategies for coping.

 

I, for one, did "TRY" (contrary to the eloquent discourse about "trying" is just for cheaters, it's a one sided and only partial argument). And I am still together with my spouse 2.5 years later. I consider what my WW did just as much a betrayal as yours to you. I chose to try because it was not MY IDEA that she should step outside of a marriage (18 years and with child) and because I knew there was more to the story than SHE was telling me. It took us nearly a year for her to learn to stop blaming me for stepping out, to stop blaming him, to basically recognise things about herself that she refused to accept. NOW we have a basis upon which to build.

 

But know this: having read hundreds of stories here and elsewhere, and having read more than a dozen books on infidelity and the fallout post DDAY, YOU CANNOT BE IN A STRONG position to negotiate whether you should leave or stay in 4, 5, 6, months IF you don't truly embody the ZERO TOLERANCE philosophy. Many people talk about it, but when it happens, that is when they discover if they really embody it. You clearly DON't. So pretending you do is just silly. And ASKING a community of strangers if you should reconcile should ONLY be really asking for perspectives. That you are asking, that you are confused IS YOUR REALITY. Embrace THAT, not the responses, and focus on your confusion, and resolve it, and then ACT.

 

The first thing I learned to do for myself was this: get my **** together so that I can say, honestly to myself, that I am not staying because I am afraid of leaving, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, I am not AFRAID to LEAVE. When you know you are not afraid to leave, then you know if you are staying it is because you want to make something work. And when your WW sees with her own eyes that you are clearly NOT afraid for a second to walk out that door, she might just wisen up. Or she might need more time. Only you, who have lived with her day to day, can genuinely determine if things are sinking in or not.

 

I think its silly to ask her to "change" in one day: I think what you are looking for is a SHIFT in attitude about what has happened. When there is a shift, there is the possibility for more, always.

 

In sum, I would no more wish to walk out on my WW because that is the BEST advice I could get from a community of strangers - the majority of whom NEVER hesitated to kick their WW out the door. I call that limited experience - than I would want to walk out the door if I had strong emotional connections that fed my confusion about what is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do.

 

What I do know is this: What ever you decide to do will not be the wrong decision, because whatever happens in our lives, we will always attempt to make the most of it. You do not need to be married to this woman, you choose to, or not to. Either way you will be a happy man.

Edited August 31, 2015 by fellini

[jbrent890]

Personally, I think you have been getting a lot of one sided advice, pushing really, you out the door. So I wish to be a voice for another perspective. And frankly, I don't get it.

 

If you are not ready to walk out the door, you are not ready. And whether you do eventually walk out the door should have nothing to do with anonymous people calling you cowardly, a wuss, etc, but because you do that for the right reasons. And there are no "objective" right reasons: you leave her because it is the right thing to do for you, or you stay and try to reconcile because that is what you want.

 

You are only 6 months post DDay and you clearly do not have your head sorted out. You are in post affair limbo, and many of these same people who are telling you to leave now, have been through this.

 

But let me assure you like anything in life, ONE MUST GO THROUGH THE STEPS to get to the other side! Just because some of these guys "know" what they know they did does not mean they know what YOU SHOULD DO. You didn't marry THEIR betraying spouses. Infidelity might have common ground, but EVERY person who commits it has their own resources and strategies for coping.

 

I, for one, did "TRY" (contrary to the eloquent discourse about "trying" is just for cheaters, it's a one sided and only partial argument). And I am still together with my spouse 2.5 years later. I consider what my WW did just as much a betrayal as yours to you. I chose to try because it was not MY IDEA that she should step outside of a marriage (18 years and with child) and because I knew there was more to the story than SHE was telling me. It took us nearly a year for her to learn to stop blaming me for stepping out, to stop blaming him, to basically recognise things about herself that she refused to accept. NOW we have a basis upon which to build.

 

But know this: having read hundreds of stories here and elsewhere, and having read more than a dozen books on infidelity and the fallout post DDAY, YOU CANNOT BE IN A STRONG position to negotiate whether you should leave or stay in 4, 5, 6, months IF you don't truly embody the ZERO TOLERANCE philosophy. Many people talk about it, but when it happens, that is when they discover if they really embody it. You clearly DON't. So pretending you do is just silly. And ASKING a community of strangers if you should reconcile should ONLY be really asking for perspectives. That you are asking, that you are confused IS YOUR REALITY. Embrace THAT, not the responses, and focus on your confusion, and resolve it, and then ACT.

 

The first thing I learned to do for myself was this: get my **** together so that I can say, honestly to myself, that I am not staying because I am afraid of leaving, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, I am not AFRAID to LEAVE. When you know you are not afraid to leave, then you know if you are staying it is because you want to make something work. And when your WW sees with her own eyes that you are clearly NOT afraid for a second to walk out that door, she might just wisen up. Or she might need more time. Only you, who have lived with her day to day, can genuinely determine if things are sinking in or not.

 

I think its silly to ask her to "change" in one day: I think what you are looking for is a SHIFT in attitude about what has happened. When there is a shift, there is the possibility for more, always.

 

In sum, I would no more wish to walk out on my WW because that is the BEST advice I could get from a community of strangers - the majority of whom NEVER hesitated to kick their WW out the door. I call that limited experience - than I would want to walk out the door if I had strong emotional connections that fed my confusion about what is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do.

 

What I do know is this: What ever you decide to do will not be the wrong decision, because whatever happens in our lives, we will always attempt to make the most of it. You do not need to be married to this woman, you choose to, or not to. Either way you will be a happy man.

 

Here is how I look at it and I'm going to try to apply this from his perspective. In essence, I really do think he already has taken your advice. He didn't immediately kick his wife out on D Day. Six months in and he is still feeling very uncomfortable and not just because she cheated. He feels (as do many others on this thread, myself included) that more happened in her affairs than she is letting on. Six months in and she really hasn't done anything to prove that more did not happen. Besides crying and apologizing, I really haven't seen that much action from her. I hope you don't mind me asking, how long does he have to wait for her to finally begin to turn things around? Six months is not a short amount of time.

 

Do I think that he should call it quits? Yes, and not because she cheated and that she deserves a divorce. In my opinion, what we have here is a situation where two people got married way too young. Its obvious that his wife lacks the maturity to be in a marriage at this stage. He is 28 and she is 23 and I don't think they have any children. I think it might be best to call it quits and both of them go out and enjoy whats left of their 20's. If he finds that she changes dramatically during this time, then maybe they can try again in the future. In addition, yes, I believe strongly that more happened in her physical relationships and I don't think she is going to admit to it unless more definitive action is taken by the OP. But at the end of the day, these are just my opinions. I'm not going to tell this man how to live his life. But I will say that I think enough time has passed for her to take action.

[fellini]

Actually things have happened in six months. Not perhaps what needs to happen. Perhaps you haven't seen "much action" because this is not your marriage. A marriage is, if nothing else, a dynamic. If we were to serioulsy point towards where two people CONSTANTLY continuously play out a dynamic more than any other relationship on the planet, we would have to agree that the husband and wife dynamic is well over the scale. Couples simply fall into such predictable behaviours, and one of those is how they resolve stress within the marriage. We always resort to existing strategies, and I don't see any evidence that this couple is any different.

 

Neither can we put a finger on whether six months means something or little. for me it took 8-9 months to REALLY TRULY get my WW on board with truth, no more trickle truthing, no more omissions, no more misdirection. Not 6, not 3. And more importantly, 6 months is nothing if the after DDAY work was weak or poorly executed. Sadly, but understandably, very few of us are experts in how to manage DDAY. So mistakes are made, the timeline for deciding to stay or go needs to be thought through carefully. And obviously, I found ultimatums to be almost useless because they produce false positives.

 

You may be right that this woman is only 23 and doesn't have what it takes to pull through this. But she isn't here on LS so i cannot speak to that. My point was that OP needs to assess all these things. But if he really wants to make his marriage work, or just simple isn't ready (for what ever reason) to throw in the towel, then he isn't.

 

so OP, when I said that I learned that I needed to be in a place where I wasn't afraid to walk away from my marriage of 18 years, I also meant by that: This is true of anyone in any marriage. Not just those experiencing infidelity. The question is what is it that you are afraid of losing - this could be any number of many different things.

 

Im not saying he shouldn't leave his wife. I would probably have ditched a woman in the same situation as he. My WW and I had a lot more water under the bridge than these two have. But what I would do is not a place to start to advise what another man should do in the same situation. And my point was I saw very few people listening to what his heart was saying, and pounding away at what only half his head was telling him and I felt someone should say something to that other side of his dilemna if they have something worthwhile to say.

 

Here is how I look at it and I'm going to try to apply this from his perspective. In essence, I really do think he already has taken your advice. He didn't immediately kick his wife out on D Day. Six months in and he is still feeling very uncomfortable and not just because she cheated. He feels (as do many others on this thread, myself included) that more happened in her affairs than she is letting on. Six months in and she really hasn't done anything to prove that more did not happen. Besides crying and apologizing, I really haven't seen that much action from her. I hope you don't mind me asking, how long does he have to wait for her to finally begin to turn things around? Six months is not a short amount of time.

Edited August 31, 2015 by fellini

[Vercetti]

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. You are correct. She has been more transparent. I have access to everything. She has shown some serious signs of remorse, and has cried repeatedly. It is very difficult to get her to talk about it though. Sometimes we talk, sometimes she's not willing, or withdraws herself as soon as the questions get tough. I mean she's improved as the months (7 months approximately) have gone by, but I'm still not satisfied. It's that damn trickle truth you mentioned that has got me into an obsessive behavior of questioning the truth of everything. She makes me question whether I am being reasonable or not. For example, if I ask her, "Did you really not have sex with any of them?" She'll say something like she can't believe I would think that of her, or that's disgusting, or it's sad that I would think so lowly of her. Given the facts, I can't tell when I should let up and believe that she's told me everything and that all the trickling is tapped out.

 

She is gas lighting HARD. How could you think that, that's sick, you think that low of me...says the girl that admitted in part to improper sexual relation with three men.

 

Sorry for you, just this is classic lie cheat gas light. Sorry your wife is a silly girl. Find a women with some class. Please don't let this obtuse girl mess with your life more.

[spanz1]

. In fact, a week before she cheated on me, after I had already discovered the ex-fling coworker, she told me that he had mentioned that her ex had been cheating on her (this guy was friends with her ex). I told her how disgusting it was that he thought he could just go and cheat on her and expressed my complete disapproval of the whole thing,.

 

she was horny for the other man, and was coyly asking you if it would be ok to open up your marriage so she could get laid. When you came down on her like a ton of bricks, it shut her up. She decided "i can not talk to him about any of my sexual urges....i had better keep it all a secret".

 

Hence her wild sexual romps with others, her denying it, and trickle truthing you to try to make it all seem innocuous.

 

Maybe all you need to get the truth out of her is to sit her down, explain that you might have been against all of this in the past, but really do want to communicate with her about her sexual needs now. that she can tell you anything and you will not be judgemental or bite her head off. then ask her about these past relationships.

 

After some days of discussing, you might have closer to the truth, and then you can decide if you want to divorce her or not

 

I know it is a bit of a trick to play on her, but you do deserve the truth. and you do not want to divroce her if she truly did not do all that much.

[tomcook]

Personally, I think you have been getting a lot of one sided advice, pushing really, you out the door. So I wish to be a voice for another perspective. And frankly, I don't get it.

 

If you are not ready to walk out the door, you are not ready. And whether you do eventually walk out the door should have nothing to do with anonymous people calling you cowardly, a wuss, etc, but because you do that for the right reasons. And there are no "objective" right reasons: you leave her because it is the right thing to do for you, or you stay and try to reconcile because that is what you want.

 

You are only 6 months post DDay and you clearly do not have your head sorted out. You are in post affair limbo, and many of these same people who are telling you to leave now, have been through this.

 

But let me assure you like anything in life, ONE MUST GO THROUGH THE STEPS to get to the other side! Just because some of these guys "know" what they know they did does not mean they know what YOU SHOULD DO. You didn't marry THEIR betraying spouses. Infidelity might have common ground, but EVERY person who commits it has their own resources and strategies for coping.

 

I, for one, did "TRY" (contrary to the eloquent discourse about "trying" is just for cheaters, it's a one sided and only partial argument). And I am still together with my spouse 2.5 years later. I consider what my WW did just as much a betrayal as yours to you. I chose to try because it was not MY IDEA that she should step outside of a marriage (18 years and with child) and because I knew there was more to the story than SHE was telling me. It took us nearly a year for her to learn to stop blaming me for stepping out, to stop blaming him, to basically recognise things about herself that she refused to accept. NOW we have a basis upon which to build.

 

But know this: having read hundreds of stories here and elsewhere, and having read more than a dozen books on infidelity and the fallout post DDAY, YOU CANNOT BE IN A STRONG position to negotiate whether you should leave or stay in 4, 5, 6, months IF you don't truly embody the ZERO TOLERANCE philosophy. Many people talk about it, but when it happens, that is when they discover if they really embody it. You clearly DON't. So pretending you do is just silly. And ASKING a community of strangers if you should reconcile should ONLY be really asking for perspectives. That you are asking, that you are confused IS YOUR REALITY. Embrace THAT, not the responses, and focus on your confusion, and resolve it, and then ACT.

 

The first thing I learned to do for myself was this: get my **** together so that I can say, honestly to myself, that I am not staying because I am afraid of leaving, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, I am not AFRAID to LEAVE. When you know you are not afraid to leave, then you know if you are staying it is because you want to make something work. And when your WW sees with her own eyes that you are clearly NOT afraid for a second to walk out that door, she might just wisen up. Or she might need more time. Only you, who have lived with her day to day, can genuinely determine if things are sinking in or not.

 

I think its silly to ask her to "change" in one day: I think what you are looking for is a SHIFT in attitude about what has happened. When there is a shift, there is the possibility for more, always.

 

In sum, I would no more wish to walk out on my WW because that is the BEST advice I could get from a community of strangers - the majority of whom NEVER hesitated to kick their WW out the door. I call that limited experience - than I would want to walk out the door if I had strong emotional connections that fed my confusion about what is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do.

 

What I do know is this: What ever you decide to do will not be the wrong decision, because whatever happens in our lives, we will always attempt to make the most of it. You do not need to be married to this woman, you choose to, or not to. Either way you will be a happy man.

 

Wow, thanks for your post arguing the other perspective. It's true. I do have a lot that I love about her, and we've had a major discussion. I was on the brink of leaving, but she took the fault, entirely, at least verbally. She cried and said please don't leave me, and I gave her no answer for a while. She kept repeating those words throughout the evening, and I told her that we need to fix us and we need to talk. I need to hear the full story. She agreed, but still insists that there is nothing more. Before all that, I had been talking to her about the details, and everything was okay. She was tired, but everything was decent until I mentioned something about her getting off from the incidents, and she said something (wish I could remember), so I was like wait, this and this happened, and she just flipped out. Of course this was all before the "please don't leave me" agreement we came to. Also before our agreement, I said something like what if I talked to the other men, and she said no she doesn't want people to be involved in our marriage. It's embarassing blah blah blah. I said well isn't what you did kindave already embarassing and involving them. Remember, this was before our agreement. Everything has actually been decent since that day, but being the BS that I am, I still am wondering, do you think it would be acceptable to secretly meet with one or more of the other guys? Do you think it's worth it? Do you think I would get any useful information?

 

Note: We have decided to reconcile, and I said I would not leave her regardless of what she tells me (as long as she puts in 110% effort in supporting me and not bull****ting me ever again), because I do love my wife. However, I want to be able to verify that what she's telling me is all. That's why I'm interested in speaking with the guys involved.

Edited September 2, 2015 by tomcook
Addition

[MrBojangles]

Wow, thanks for your post arguing the other perspective. It's true. I do have a lot that I love about her, and we've had a major discussion. I was on the brink of leaving, but she took the fault, entirely, at least verbally. She cried and said please don't leave me, and I gave her no answer for a while. She kept repeating those words throughout the evening, and I told her that we need to fix us and we need to talk. I need to hear the full story. She agreed, but still insists that there is nothing more. Before all that, I had been talking to her about the details, and everything was okay. She was tired, but everything was decent until I mentioned something about her getting off from the incidents, and she said something (wish I could remember), so I was like wait, this and this happened, and she just flipped out. Of course this was all before the "please don't leave me" agreement we came to. Also before our agreement, I said something like what if I talked to the other men, and she said no she doesn't want people to be involved in our marriage. It's embarassing blah blah blah. I said well isn't what you did kindave already embarassing and involving them. Remember, this was before our agreement. Everything has actually been decent since that day, but being the BS that I am, I still am wondering, do you think it would be acceptable to secretly meet with one or more of the other guys? Do you think it's worth it? Do you think I would get any useful information?

 

Note: We have decided to reconcile, and I said I would not leave her regardless of what she tells me (as long as she puts in 110% effort in supporting me and not bull****ting me ever again), because I do love my wife. However, I want to be able to verify that what she's telling me is all. That's why I'm interested in speaking with the guys involved.

 

 

Why would you want to humiliate yourself by going to these men? Aside from making yourself look weaker, you will probably not get the truth out of them anyway. Most likely these men would just corroborate her story at her urging. Your WW's version of events seems totally unrealistic, as others have already told you. Since you've already decided to reconcile with her, just let it go!

 

Unless at this point finding out the whole truth will cause you to reconsider R, just let it go. By the way, what you've agreed to with your WW, is called rug sweeping, IMO. Her actions as you've described do not sound remorseful to me. Are you willing to put her actions behind you completely, having doubts about the full extent of her betrayal?

 

I do not believe for one second she did not have full blown sex with these men. I mean why wouldn't she have gone all the way?

[SummerDreams]

People who get cheated on and stay for months discussing about what they should do are insecure people who dont think they are good enough to be loved by anyone else. It is not love that keeps you with this woman who has made you a doormat and humiliates you time and time again, it is obsession, fear for the unknown and insecurity. I have been in your shoes in a similar situation being the only one working for a dead relationship and I was insisting causr I was scared to be alone - I wasnt realizing I was already alone in my soul. Then something happened that made me say "enough is enough". I left him and some months later I met the man of my life. Would I have stayed with this man back then I would have not met this man I love now. We say in my country, every ending is a new start. You may feel terrified to do what you know it is right and leave her but after you do you will feel freed and strong.

 

Dont give in to your insecurities and fear anymore.

[tomcook]

Why would you want to humiliate yourself by going to these men? Aside from making yourself look weaker, you will probably not get the truth out of them anyway. Most likely these men would just corroborate her story at her urging. Your WW's version of events seems totally unrealistic, as others have already told you. Since you've already decided to reconcile with her, just let it go!

 

Unless at this point finding out the whole truth will cause you to reconsider R, just let it go. By the way, what you've agreed to with your WW, is called rug sweeping, IMO. Her actions as you've described do not sound remorseful to me. Are you willing to put her actions behind you completely, having doubts about the full extent of her betrayal?

 

I do not believe for one second she did not have full blown sex with these men. I mean why wouldn't she have gone all the way?

 

Good point. I do not need to further humiliate myself. It's just hard to let go. I mean, I should at least wait and see what comes of our talks. You know what I mean? If she reveals more, I will TRY to repair the marriage if she's still putting in an effort and getting on the same page as me with the details.

[tomcook]

People who get cheated on and stay for months discussing about what they should do are insecure people who dont think they are good enough to be loved by anyone else. It is not love that keeps you with this woman who has made you a doormat and humiliates you time and time again, it is obsession, fear for the unknown and insecurity. I have been in your shoes in a similar situation being the only one working for a dead relationship and I was insisting causr I was scared to be alone - I wasnt realizing I was already alone in my soul. Then something happened that made me say "enough is enough". I left him and some months later I met the man of my life. Would I have stayed with this man back then I would have not met this man I love now. We say in my country, every ending is a new start. You may feel terrified to do what you know it is right and leave her but after you do you will feel freed and strong.

 

Dont give in to your insecurities and fear anymore.

 

I'm glad you met the man of your dreams. That is AWESOME! To tell you the truth (as you can already see), I am an insecure person. Do I feel like I'll never find anyone else? Somewhat. Do I feel like it'll be a repeat of the pain I've went through in this relationship. Certainly. Additionally, when I think of leaving this one, I remember the things I like about her. I love the way she looks at me. I love how we met. I love the dreams we dream up, and our kitties, haha. I love how much we have in common, and I love the idea of being with her IF she really does put in a HUGE effort to correct her ****ty ways, as well as come clean about everything under MY terms. Anything else, unacceptable. I mean, I partially took the advice of many posters. I feel like standing up for myself and saying I'll pack my **** and leave now if she doesn't get her act together scared her. It was the first time she actually started to beg me to stay, and took 100% responsibility, and said she would have talks and work on her attitude.

Edited September 2, 2015 by tomcook
Addition

[MrBojangles]

Good point. I do not need to further humiliate myself. It's just hard to let go. I mean, I should at least wait and see what comes of our talks. You know what I mean? If she reveals more, I will TRY to repair the marriage if she's still putting in an effort and getting on the same page as me with the details.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean. All of the information that you are seeking must come from her. Should you be forced to speak to these other men just to try and get the truth, it will only further prove that she is not worthy of R. But if in your heart you know you will never get passed the unanswered questions, then you have to decide if R is even worth the effort.

 

You are still a young man, and sometimes it's easier to just start fresh and not have to relive the pain of betrayal every time you look at a wSO. If you feel she's truly earned the greatest gift, reconciliation, then by all means give it a go! But she must show true remorse, be 100% truthful and do the heavy lifting to repair the damage she's caused. This is the absolute minimum you should expect from her before entering R.

 

It's very obvious that you still love her, and want to save your marriage. But she has to understand that her actions carry consequences. Don't be too quick to agree to R at her request, until you've healed and all of your questions have been answered to YOUR satisfaction.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Tom,

Having read what you have just posted it is apparent that you have forgiven your wife her indiscretions since you have decided to reconcile. If that be case then there is no point in further investigating her actions as any information that you may discover will only poison your mind against your wife. My own opinion in the matter( which you may please disregard if you so wish) would be to divorce your wife as she has cheated on you in a relatively short span of three years of marriage. To me it does not bode well for the future because this period of your marriage is more like a honeymoon period. You do not have kids but when you do their presence will add a lot of stress on a marriage which is already weak at it's moorings. However you are the man in the hot seat and are the one who is aware of the situation and also the one who should know his wife better than anyone else. It is definitely your call. What ever you choose to do I guess the folks on here would join me in wishing you the very best! Cheers.