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You've got about 40 people here telling you the exact same things:

 

a) you can't believe a phukking word she says; she plays you like a fiddle

b) married adult cheaters don't hold at third––it's all about scoring

c) she pulled down her panties for three different men in a few days, for no particular reason, and you still manage somehow to buy the demure, inhibited act?

 

You've got one serious case of denial going on tomcook. You want so badly to believe that it didn't happen, that it will all be ok, that you're able to deny the reality and the gravity of the situation.

 

Everyone is telling you that her taking off her panties for three guys in three days for no better reason than you had an argument means that she's disinhibited... but you choose to believe that she stopped short of actually phukking them because of her ladylike inhibitions. That is denial.

 

And one more thing... whether these three guys inserted their penises or just fingers is NOT a key distinction as you seem to have concluded. The fact that she took her panties off for three different guys, gave the access, and allowed them to insert any of their body parts into her... well, how do you just ignore that as if it has no relevance.

 

Yes, do the polygraph. You need it. The crying routine means nothing.

 

PS: I'm sorry for your loss. Don't use that as an excuse for the other stuff even if you feel overwhelmed.

 

I agree with all of this wholeheartedly (except the polygraph). Instead, file for divorce, do the 180 (look it up), let her get served, and make it clear that the only hope she has of any chance of reconciliation is to come completely clean because you're just not buying it.

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bubbaganoosh
Again, thank you all for your support. I had a fairly young close family member die yesterday morning, and it really ripped me apart. Last night, the wife and I talked a little more about things. She cried a lot. I think she could tell I was REALLY considering leaving her. She told me how much she needed me, and how much it would tear her up if I left. While she was crying, she said that she was so glad that she did nothing more than what she says she did. Is this also a ploy? Don't get me wrong, I am still very pissed and agree with each and every one of you on many levels, but I told her okay I'll take your word for it to buy myself more time to flip through all of the data I collected, and I can't find a thing. She deleted too quickly at that time to really uncover anything new. I will pursue it again, but even though she tore my heart out over something stupid that was used as an excuse to allow herself to cheat, it's still really tough breaking seeing her break down with the remorse she has shown. Should I proceed with the polygraph, divorce papers, etc? Are all of the apologies, crying, and saying I am overthinking it just some form of diversion from the truth/gaslighting? I commend you all for having gone though this before me. This crap is tough, especially when you're the sympathetic type. I did read about the signs of a control freak and gaslighting and a lot of them have been there all along. I guess it's gone on so damn long, I just don't even know when I'm right or wrong anymore it feels like.

 

Look. She's remorseful only because she got caught nothing more. Open your eyes and start looking at this thing with reality and stop looking at the tears and crying. Those are for getting caught and nothing more. Crying and whining is a great way to deflect form the problem so think about it.

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Hi Tom, Just for the record how long have you two been married? How long were you together before marriage? Is your wife employed and if so what is her line of work? Have you always been minding your PS and As with her.

 

Also her tears could be crocodile ones! Just a thought. A lot of people have made some excellent suggestions and given you some good ideas. It is for you to take what you think best fits your situation and go to work with it. My own reading is that your wife is way too far gone and her mental make up is completely opposed to yours. There doesn't seem to be anything to save except your own dignity. Cheers.

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Hi Tom, Just for the record how long have you two been married? How long were you together before marriage? Is your wife employed and if so what is her line of work? Have you always been minding your PS and As with her.

 

Also her tears could be crocodile ones! Just a thought. A lot of people have made some excellent suggestions and given you some good ideas. It is for you to take what you think best fits your situation and go to work with it. My own reading is that your wife is way too far gone and her mental make up is completely opposed to yours. There doesn't seem to be anything to save except your own dignity. Cheers.

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Hi Tom, Just for the record how long have you two been married? How long were you together before marriage? Is your wife employed and if so what is her line of work? Have you always been minding your PS and As with her.

 

Also her tears could be crocodile ones! Just a thought. A lot of people have made some excellent suggestions and given you some good ideas. It is for you to take what you think best fits your situation and go to work with it. My own reading is that your wife is way too far gone and her mental make up is completely opposed to yours. There doesn't seem to be anything to save except your own dignity. Cheers.

 

Hi JustAGuy. You're right. Most everyone has been pretty much in agreement about the direction I should go, and yes, of course it is up to me to make the decision I see fit. We have been married for a little over 3 years, and been together for a little over 4 years. So, we were together about a year before marriage. She just got out of a breakup at that time and wanted to become more religious/faithful.

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Are all of the apologies, crying, and saying I am overthinking it just some form of diversion from the truth/gaslighting?

 

In short, yes.

 

Think about what true remorse would look like:

 

She'd be truthful - tell you anything you want to know

 

She'd be transparent - showing you anything you'd want to see

 

She'd be proactive - suggesting ways to address your concerns

 

She'd be considerate - allowing you space to process what's happened

 

tomcook, does that sound like her :confused::confused::confused: ???

 

Mr. Lucky

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bubbaganoosh
Hi JustAGuy. You're right. Most everyone has been pretty much in agreement about the direction I should go, and yes, of course it is up to me to make the decision I see fit. We have been married for a little over 3 years, and been together for a little over 4 years. So, we were together about a year before marriage. She just got out of a breakup at that time and wanted to become more religious/faithful.

 

Well so far she has a lousy way of living up to being faithful and religious. Maybe you should remind her of that.

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In short, yes.

 

Think about what true remorse would look like:

 

She'd be truthful - tell you anything you want to know

 

She'd be transparent - showing you anything you'd want to see

 

She'd be proactive - suggesting ways to address your concerns

 

She'd be considerate - allowing you space to process what's happened

 

tomcook, does that sound like her :confused::confused::confused: ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I guess that's just the thing. She's shown at least a partial effort in all of those areas, some times better than others. She has been very transparent with all events that took place since. She has shown me everything I want to see that she still has, and anything from current events. She has tried to give me suggestions to address my concerns, such as writing my thoughts in a notebook to not drive myself crazy (but I need real human feedback). In terms of allowing me space, sometimes yes, sometimes we can both be very clingy. However, there are still issues. I can't always talk freely about the cheating episodes without it backfiring on me through means of hurting her feelings arguments that I lose. So, instead of talking it out daily like I would have wanted to, I suppress everything for periods of time, just to avoid even MORE discomfort if I was to bring anything up. We still have many of the issues I complained about before all of this though. They just come and go. One major one is I feel that I am treated unfairly in our relationship. I feel like I am always made out to be wrong in some way in any argument. The good times with her are really great. She's beautiful, smart, funny, and very sweethearted, but the bad times or infidelity triggers make me think of the horrific, heartless acts she commited. That's where I think I am having trouble. I feel like I should be thrilled that she's putting effort into keeping us together, but I am still haunted by what she did. I have been hesitant on separation because I don't know if I'll regret my decision. In fact, even if it is a good decision, after a separation, people tend to become biased towards the good sides of the person they left, completely forgetting the bad. I don't want that to happen either.

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Well so far she has a lousy way of living up to being faithful and religious. Maybe you should remind her of that.

 

Bubbaganoosh, you're absolutely right. However, I myself did not fulfill that well either. I feel like me mentioning that would give her the perfect opportunity to flip it around on me. I read about that in an article, but forgot the specific term for it. May be another form of gaslighting.

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You've got about 40 people here telling you the exact same things:

 

a) you can't believe a phukking word she says; she plays you like a fiddle

b) married adult cheaters don't hold at third––it's all about scoring

c) she pulled down her panties for three different men in a few days, for no particular reason, and you still manage somehow to buy the demure, inhibited act?

 

You've got one serious case of denial going on tomcook. You want so badly to believe that it didn't happen, that it will all be ok, that you're able to deny the reality and the gravity of the situation.

 

Everyone is telling you that her taking off her panties for three guys in three days for no better reason than you had an argument means that she's disinhibited... but you choose to believe that she stopped short of actually phukking them because of her ladylike inhibitions. That is denial.

 

And one more thing... whether these three guys inserted their penises or just fingers is NOT a key distinction as you seem to have concluded. The fact that she took her panties off for three different guys, gave the access, and allowed them to insert any of their body parts into her... well, how do you just ignore that as if it has no relevance.

 

Yes, do the polygraph. You need it. The crying routine means nothing.

 

PS: I'm sorry for your loss. Don't use that as an excuse for the other stuff even if you feel overwhelmed.

 

I love your post. It definitely has relevance. It's complete phukking (in your words) bull****. I guess I was surprised that I didn't up and file for D when she admitted to that. Maybe that's why I'm looking for more. I established our relationship on honesty. It's one of the things I talked about very seriously, on many occasions. Sadly, I also talked about infidelity with her on many occasions over the four years we had been together. I mean, many many times. I would always tell her that cheating wasn't just sex, and I would say that I have zero tolerance to it, and that would mean the end right then and there if it were ever to happen to me, hypothetically. I think maybe one single time in that four years I may have mentioned something like I wouldn't necessarily leave her if it happened, but every other time I would always be completely merciless to cheaters. In fact, a week before she cheated on me, after I had already discovered the ex-fling coworker, she told me that he had mentioned that her ex had been cheating on her (this guy was friends with her ex). I told her how disgusting it was that he thought he could just go and cheat on her and expressed my complete disapproval of the whole thing, and I mean literally (I'm pretty sure) a week later I got cheated on. So, I guess maybe all of this poking around to discover additional sexual acts that may have been committed is not so much my lack of disgust with what I already know, but rather to figure out what it takes to get me to actually be like "**** this, I'm outta here". I broke my own word of allowing zero tolerance, and it sucks now that I think of it that way.

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. She just got out of a breakup at that time and wanted to become more religious/faithful.

 

Doesnt look like that has worked out well for her unfortunately.

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Doesnt look like that has worked out well for her unfortunately.

 

Haha, no, certainly not. I'm no saint either, but geez, it seems like this could have been something fairly easy to avoid, not to mention 4 times with 3 different gentlemen. Oh, and for the record because I forgot to mention this, it was only kissing with one of the guys. It was the other two that got to put their hands on her pot of gold and expose themselves. Of course, that is based on her word, so...

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4 times with 3 different gentlemen. Oh, and for the record because I forgot to mention this, it was only kissing with one of the guys. It was the other two that got to put their hands on her pot of gold and expose themselves. Of course, that is based on her word, so...

 

There's nothing gentle about those men.

 

Your word will not be taken seriously anymore, as you didn't go through with leaving her after saying you had zero tolerance. You've shown her, it's not a dealbreaker for you.

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There's nothing gentle about those men.

 

Your word will not be taken seriously anymore, as you didn't go through with leaving her after saying you had zero tolerance. You've shown her, it's not a dealbreaker for you.

 

So, what would you do sandylee1? Do I just up and leave, and say f*** the consequences? That's not in a smartass tone or anything. I'm actually asking. I'm scared of the confrontation and aftermath of the whole thing. Is it worth me doing that? I mean, is making that decision, the D decision, the most valuable option I have currently? I know that's what everyone suggested, and I promise I read and re-read every individual's response and took all of them to heart. It just feels a little worrisome. If you truly think this is my best option, and truly believe from experience that she is bul****ting me, I will go for it. If that is the case, from your standpoint, what would be the best way to initiate the conversation, or set everything in motion?

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ShatteredLady

I'm like you. I'm very new to this site or anything like it. I also made myself a promise that I would NEVER tollerate this kind of crap. It's just so different when it's not a hypothetical anymore. Believing how you will react in theory goes out the window when you're face to face with the person you love. I know people are going to say that our marriage 'contracts' are null & void after what our partners did to us but I don't find it that simple. Regardless of my H's actions "I" stood in church with our families & friends & promised "Until death us do part". I believed that I would fight tooth & nail to fix ANYTHING. We have 2 beautiful little children. We have a life, a history. I'm not saying I would tolerate anything. I'm not saying I won't divorce if this EVER happens again. I'm not saying its going to be easy to get through this...but I think it's worth trying! It's worth trying so I know (for me) that I did everything I could to build a strong marriage again. I NEED to be 100% certain that we've given it our all. That's just me. I know people will think I'm being a pathetic whimp (I would of thought that before it was me & my life!) but I have to live with this. Others opinions can help me think things through but at the end of the day I have to live with me & my choices long after strangers on the Internet have moved on with their lives. (No disrespect. There are some fantastic, kind, generous souls here who have helped me more than they will ever know).

 

The HUGE problem is.... If we say, "My partner says that A & B happened" We will be advised "That REALLY means A, B, C & D happened!". My H can never be telling me the truth because "Cheaters ALWAYS minimize" but what if he IS telling me everything?

There are people who just have emotional affairs. There are people who just hold hands. There are people who just......!!!! For me ANYTHING that breaks our vows, all the lies, all the cruelty is devastating. I'm not playing down anything. It's soul destroying. I'm broken. The pain is beyond words.

If I want my marriage to work at some point I have to believe that I'm getting the truth. I posted a few pages back that we went through the trickle truth discussion. I got a time-line. I filled in the missing puzzle pieces. It makes sense now. If I think of something new we have to sit & go through it all again. I've explained this & my husband now understands. He's explained how he feels, how he HATES going through it again & again & again....Ive explained "Tough!" I NEED it!! He gets that now.

 

At the end of the day I love my husband & I love my little family. I have faith that we can get through this. It's my life!

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I'm like you. I'm very new to this site or anything like it. I also made myself a promise that I would NEVER tollerate this kind of crap. It's just so different when it's not a hypothetical anymore. Believing how you will react in theory goes out the window when you're face to face with the person you love. I know people are going to say that our marriage 'contracts' are null & void after what our partners did to us but I don't find it that simple. Regardless of my H's actions "I" stood in church with our families & friends & promised "Until death us do part". I believed that I would fight tooth & nail to fix ANYTHING. We have 2 beautiful little children. We have a life, a history. I'm not saying I would tolerate anything. I'm not saying I won't divorce if this EVER happens again. I'm not saying its going to be easy to get through this...but I think it's worth trying! It's worth trying so I know (for me) that I did everything I could to build a strong marriage again. I NEED to be 100% certain that we've given it our all. That's just me. I know people will think I'm being a pathetic whimp (I would of thought that before it was me & my life!) but I have to live with this. Others opinions can help me think things through but at the end of the day I have to live with me & my choices long after strangers on the Internet have moved on with their lives. (No disrespect. There are some fantastic, kind, generous souls here who have helped me more than they will ever know).

 

The HUGE problem is.... If we say, "My partner says that A & B happened" We will be advised "That REALLY means A, B, C & D happened!". My H can never be telling me the truth because "Cheaters ALWAYS minimize" but what if he IS telling me everything?

There are people who just have emotional affairs. There are people who just hold hands. There are people who just......!!!! For me ANYTHING that breaks our vows, all the lies, all the cruelty is devastating. I'm not playing down anything. It's soul destroying. I'm broken. The pain is beyond words.

If I want my marriage to work at some point I have to believe that I'm getting the truth. I posted a few pages back that we went through the trickle truth discussion. I got a time-line. I filled in the missing puzzle pieces. It makes sense now. If I think of something new we have to sit & go through it all again. I've explained this & my husband now understands. He's explained how he feels, how he HATES going through it again & again & again....Ive explained "Tough!" I NEED it!! He gets that now.

 

At the end of the day I love my husband & I love my little family. I have faith that we can get through this. It's my life!

 

Thank you ShatteredLady. Sorry for what you're going through by the way. I appreciate your super thoughtful responses. It means a lot. Although your tone differs from everyone else's, I understand and appreciate what you are saying.

 

It's true. It feels very different when hypothetical becomes your reality. I liked the idea of the timeline discussion very much. It's strange. When our times are good, and she's in a good mood, I'm typically joyful or at most mildly upset. However, when she snaps at me or does one little thing that feels unfair, I immediately go into a different because I begin viewing her as someone else. I begin viewing her as the once closest person to me who unleashed a wave of hurt upon me. It is in those times that I feel deep down I want to exit this relationship. That feeling is there, but something stops me. In fact, if that feeling wasn't present, I probably wouldn't keep this thread going. I would have gotten all the information I needed.

 

Just like in your case, I feel that I will regret not at least trying. I feel like if I leave , I will look back one day and think "what if?" At the same time, however, I feel like the freedom of not being married to her for the rest of my life will bring me great joy. That change in the status quo is terrifying, even though there are parts of it that I dislike a great deal. The uncertainty of going from the known into the realm of the unknown if frightening, because I can't tell which realm will provide me the most happiness.

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ShatteredLady

I understand. I truly do. The other week my husband shouted at me "Yeh! Just keep picking that scab & watching me bleed!". I EXPLODED! The first time he's ever seen me like that! I just screamed "9 Months! You have no right ever!! 9 months of torture you can't ever make me feel bad for you!! You've lost ALL right to sympathy!". He actually thought I was going to hit him! I've never shouted, let alone hit anyone! it's such an insane rollercoaster. I don't truly know what I'm thinking from one moment to the next at times. I just NEED to know I'm doing the right thing. For the rest of my life I would be a divorced person. If I'm going to carry a label for life I need to know it was the only correct choice.

I'm so sorry. I wouldn't wish these feelings on my worst enemy. I had no idea that anything could hurt so much on so many different levels. It's just insane!! I keep thinking "I'm not this person! It's not my life!". I've always been a hapless romantic. I just don't understand the mentality of someone who does this to someone they love. I try to. I really do but I just don't get it!

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So she got into it with me today. I was going to buy her a new phone, and I was going to take her old one. We had a partial agreement on that before. Then, she asked me this evening for my honest opinion of if I wanted her old phone. I said no. Her face instantly changed. She asked me why. I said it's because that's the phone that was with you during the whole ordeal. It, as well as many other things, act as triggers that make relive the horror of the infidelity. She acted like that was frustrating, and acted like I am not understanding of the fact that she is going through something too. I told her, well you don't even ask about the articles I mentioned to read, and she acted like I should send them to her. I told her that she should be more proactive, and show me that she actually cares. She acted like I am not supportive or understanding or something and I said that she stabbed me right in the back and I am still here supporting her, waiting patiently for over six months. She said something like, well do you even want to be here. I looked her in the eye and firmly said "NO, not if this does not change". I felt my heart get tugged at that moment because her whole facial expression instantly changed, like I wounded her. It hurt me so bad to do that, but I had to continue. I said that I will leave tomorrow, and pack whatever few things I can, and be out of her life tomorrow if it's not going to change, because I cannot live confined like this for the rest of my life. I just refuse to do that. She stumbled out of the kitchen and said she had to go lie down. What an ordeal? I don't even know what the next step is now. I go blank on all of the advice when I'm in the middle of an event.

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Tom, I've read and re-read this thread a couple times. I am very confident that you will regret trying to reconcile with her much, much more than any regret you might feel by divorcing her now. She's lying to you - big time - and you are going to start living the hell of trickle truth as soon as you pull yourself out of the state of emotional shock you are living in now. I hope you will stop being afraid and doing the "what if" thing and just do what you've always known is the right thing when your partner cheats.

 

Strict no contact means that you begin to move forward. Walk away now and you start healing tomorrow. Or just stay where you are and keep feeling how you feel.

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I understand. I truly do. The other week my husband shouted at me "Yeh! Just keep picking that scab & watching me bleed!". I EXPLODED! The first time he's ever seen me like that! I just screamed "9 Months! You have no right ever!! 9 months of torture you can't ever make me feel bad for you!! You've lost ALL right to sympathy!". He actually thought I was going to hit him! I've never shouted, let alone hit anyone! it's such an insane rollercoaster. I don't truly know what I'm thinking from one moment to the next at times. I just NEED to know I'm doing the right thing. For the rest of my life I would be a divorced person. If I'm going to carry a label for life I need to know it was the only correct choice.

I'm so sorry. I wouldn't wish these feelings on my worst enemy. I had no idea that anything could hurt so much on so many different levels. It's just insane!! I keep thinking "I'm not this person! It's not my life!". I've always been a hapless romantic. I just don't understand the mentality of someone who does this to someone they love. I try to. I really do but I just don't get it!

 

I can imagine how you feel ShatteredLady. That rollercoaster feeling is the worst. One minute you think you are on the final approach to recovery lane, then one small trigger later, boom, you can't stand your spouse, you can't stand your weakness for staying with someone who could do such a thing to you. I don't like the idea of being a divorced person for the rest of my life, and carrying that label. However, if I can't change this wife of mine, I will be doomed, because there are personality issues that will confine and control me for the rest of my days. I hope it is not the same issue on your end. Like I said, all it takes is one agressive move from her end, and I have hardly a shred of sympathy for her or her cause.

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Tom, I've read and re-read this thread a couple times. I am very confident that you will regret trying to reconcile with her much, much more than any regret you might feel by divorcing her now. She's lying to you - big time - and you are going to start living the hell of trickle truth as soon as you pull yourself out of the state of emotional shock you are living in now. I hope you will stop being afraid and doing the "what if" thing and just do what you've always known is the right thing when your partner cheats.

 

Strict no contact means that you begin to move forward. Walk away now and you start healing tomorrow. Or just stay where you are and keep feeling how you feel.

 

drifter777, I hear you loud and clear. I think this ship is sinking. It's already in motion after what I said tonight (you can read my earlier post). In short, I finally stopped sugarcoating and basically said I will leave tomorrow if this **** does not change. I will not tolerate it, and live in a prison for the rest of my life. I wish I would remember all the good points I come up with (or those provided by the forum members) when in the middle of these confrontations.

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Hi Tom, I'm really sorry for the ordeal that you ate having to go through every day. However, on the other hand it is cathartic because it reinforces the reasons why you should walk away. Also, three years of marriage is not really an eternity and you have not acquired a lot of history together. It may be easier to walk now than say ten or fifteen years later when there may be children, mortgages, solid history and crystallized bonding with each other. The other thing is that your wife had just broken up with her previous boyfriend/ fiance and met you on the rebound. Not the best time to find a partner for life. Maybe that is why she is behaving as she is, she did not really fall in love with you but may have bonded with you because she needed some one to lean on while she recovered from her break up. The fact that she cheated on you with her ex shows she is probably not over him fully. Just some things to think about. Wish you the very best in whatever you choose to do.

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Hi Tom, I'm really sorry for the ordeal that you ate having to go through every day. However, on the other hand it is cathartic because it reinforces the reasons why you should walk away. Also, three years of marriage is not really an eternity and you have not acquired a lot of history together. It may be easier to walk now than say ten or fifteen years later when there may be children, mortgages, solid history and crystallized bonding with each other. The other thing is that your wife had just broken up with her previous boyfriend/ fiance and met you on the rebound. Not the best time to find a partner for life. Maybe that is why she is behaving as she is, she did not really fall in love with you but may have bonded with you because she needed some one to lean on while she recovered from her break up. The fact that she cheated on you with her ex shows she is probably not over him fully. Just some things to think about. Wish you the very best in whatever you choose to do.

 

Thanks a lot man. What you say is a very good observation. It is a reinforcement in a sense. That's a good point regarding the rebound, but she actually didn't cheat with the ex himself, she cheated with a fling she had while she was with her ex in an "open" phase of their relationship, or she cheated on him too, not sure. That's true though. Maybe if I present it to her with the fact that maybe I was the wrong guy at the right time, she may just see it my way, so it doesn't end up costing me a fortune along with a huge heartache.

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Brother, it's clear that you're just staying out of fear. I get it. I was there, too.

 

A good therapist helps you look directly at those fears and to realize that once you confront them, they're not as scary as you thought.

 

I'll also say that I am living proof that there is life after divorce. I didn't want the failure label either or to break up my childrens' home. But I made it thru it all and quite frankly, it was a relief once it was all in motion. I finally had something to look forward to, rather than bring stuck in a torturous situation that seemed to have no end in sight. Like my wife, yours is not truly remorseful. She's sorry she got caught. And now she's playing the victim. What exactly is she the victim of? If anything, she's the victim of her nagging husband disrupting her single life. Poor thing.

 

Don't sign up for any more of this.

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.

 

Just like in your case, I feel that I will regret not at least trying. I feel like if I leave , I will look back one day and think "what if?"

 

 

.

 

I think the people who regret "not trying" are the people who committed the wrongdoing and didn't do anything to try to rectify it.

 

 

People who were the ones wronged by other's bad actions, don't carry that baggage.

 

 

Take it from someone who has been there, done that - when someone is mistreating you and giving you the shaft, your regrets in later years are that you didn't break away sooner and save yourself additional grief and wasted time.

 

 

"trying" is when you did something wrong and need to make amends or if you completely dropped the ball through laziness and inaction and you need to put in some sincere effort.

 

 

Getting away from a toxic situation is just simply good sense and the regret you will feel in later years is that you allowed yourself to sit in the toxin and get more polluted longer than you needed to.

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