Am I Receiving Partial Truth?

[tomcook]

Tom thanks for the clarification. I get you want to be super cautious and you are right. But in my eyes and if woman was my husband I would not accept her "wanting to change and want me". All this should be a given since she made the choice to marry you and make vows with you. She made the choices to cheat on you with 3 guys on 4 occasions - it is obvious to me her commitment and vows to you mean nothing. But anyway it is your choice and good luck. What makes me kind of upset though is that good men accept women who cheat on them and treat them without respect and good women are single. :/

 

Thanks for understanding SummerDreams. I mean, I agree with you. You don't have to convince me. It was always my belief that if she cheated, I would tell her to get the **** out with no further discussion. However, it hasn't played out like that. You're right, she basically took a piss on our commitment to each other. I remember her saying something like, "well we never wrote proper vowels", OH REALLY? So does that mean it is okay to just go off and cheat then? Hahaha. I know she must not have thought that one through. I am sure she gets nervous talking to me about it. Anyway, I understand what you are saying. Sometimes, the good men accept women who end up cheating, and the good women accept men who end up cheating. It's not fair. It's still really hard for me, and I still think about ending it, but I feel like I owe her a second chance if she is really trying (even though there is no rule that says she does). It's hard because I still feel the pain, resentment, and there are a decent amount of people who agree with you that she should not get a second chance. I do sympathize with your statement though. My feelings are not black and white. I have chosen to R reluctantly, but there's always the other side to those emotions as well.

Edited September 6, 2015 by tomcook
Addition

[tomcook]

Tom, it's all so unbelievably hard. The was one night that me & my H had a really good talk. I actually exploded (very out of character for me) & he was truly afraid. The next day was a good day with our kids. I forgot for a moment that everything had turned to s**t. I felt like my life was 'real' again. I think that was when I KNEW for certain that I wasn't leaving. I just knew that I couldn't. This is my family & no matter what I was feeling or thinking when it was bad I knew, deep down, that I was going to give it my best. It FELT DIFFERENT. It's so hard to explain & it wasn't anything in particular but from the moment I was sure I was committed to R its been a little easier each day.

 

I think all you can do is keep thinking & talking. One day you will know but until you reach that point know what you're going through is normal....well, it's what I was feeling so there are at least 2 of us that feel these feelings & think these thoughts!

 

Thanks ShatteredLady, that is uplifting. I am glad I am not alone. I mean I know I am not haha, but it's nice to actually hear it verbalized. I would like to think of it as becoming easier, and reaching that moment when I truly know, because some days are so tough. I'll just be feeling like there is a brighter place for me just beyond the horizon if I stay, and a lot of days I don't feel that way. Although normal, I am afraid that those feelings of wanting to leave may be more related to resentment and jealousy. As in, "well it's all gone to hell, I want to explore my wild side now" I mean, I cannot deny the fleeting thought of going and being with a different woman is enticing, but I knew my commitment, and even the fleeting thought would make me feel like a horrible person. I remember one time (and I hope everyone reads this) after finding out about everything, I told her that it made me jealous that she basically broke the rules and "got hers" and now she gets to say sorry and I get nothing but emotional pain. Her response was something along the lines of me getting to break the rules when we started socially drinking again, or using my electronic cigarette. Then, she followed it with something like I am not even interested in the opposite gender types of things. I was shocked by that. It's like, "Uhh, yes I am, I just chose to be a committed husband and stay true to the person I married." I'm not sure. Haha, sorry I start to ramble. I hope the stories are at least a good read. It's nice to hear everyone's opinion though, always. I love logging into LS and seeing if I got any responses. It's just nice to discuss it over and over with REAL people.

[fellini]

What makes me kind of upset though is that good men accept women who cheat on them and treat them without respect and good women are single. :/

 

But Tom and I both married that good woman. This is the part that people don't get: WE DID go out there and marry a good single woman. Mine remained a "good woman" for 18 years.

 

The promise of ever meeting a good woman who will not cheat is the promise of a fool. Not all good women cheat. But good women do. And the same is true of men. I don't see it as a gender thing

Edited September 6, 2015 by fellini

[Popsicle]

But Tom and I both married that good woman. This is the part that people don't get: WE DID go out there and marry a good single woman. Mine remained a "good woman" for 18 years.

 

The promise of ever meeting a good woman who will not cheat is the promise of a fool. Not all good women cheat. But good women do. And the same is true of men. I don't see it as a gender thing

 

 

It's ridiculous to spend the rest of your life thinking all women and all men cheat...

[TX-SC]

Tom, I have to ask again... Why do you want to stay with her? Is your self esteem REALLY that low? Think about it, you could be free of this cheater and liar and live a new life. Cruises, vacations, pretty much ANYTHING you want. Just divorce and move on.

[tomcook]

But Tom and I both married that good woman. This is the part that people don't get: WE DID go out there and marry a good single woman. Mine remained a "good woman" for 18 years.

 

The promise of ever meeting a good woman who will not cheat is the promise of a fool. Not all good women cheat. But good women do. And the same is true of men. I don't see it as a gender thing

 

Very true. I made sure I took that into account in my reply. You always have fantastic observations fellini.

[tomcook]

It's ridiculous to spend the rest of your life thinking all women and all men cheat...

 

I can't speak on his behalf of course, but what I took from fellini's post is that when many of the bs's met their WSO's, what they saw in that person then is not what they saw post D-day. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't have married them in the first place, in a lot of our cases. I know every situation is unique. I feel like fellini was trying to say that you can't ever blindly have faith that no one will cheat, like I'm sure most of us did. Hence the fool's promise quote. You have to keep your eyes open to reality, instead of the fantasy world I put myself in when meeting my wife. "She's not that type. Thank God I'm in a relationship with a different type of woman. We're clearly a unique case. She would never do that because she has values that those other women don't" and her saying "Cheating is terrible. It's a dealbreaker. It's horrible. I would never cheat on you" blah blah blah blah. It wasn't realistic, and it set me and her on the wrong path of expectations, which led to WAY more pain. I shouldn't expect SO to cheat, but I should at least be aware of the fact that it is always a possibility, no matter how well I think I know someone, no matter how well I think I'm on the road to recovery. There are loyal men and women, and there are those who are not loyal, and there seems to be some loyal that turn the other way, and vice versa. It's all difficult to predict sometimes.

Edited September 6, 2015 by tomcook

[tomcook]

Tom, I have to ask again... Why do you want to stay with her? Is your self esteem REALLY that low? Think about it, you could be free of this cheater and liar and live a new life. Cruises, vacations, pretty much ANYTHING you want. Just divorce and move on.

 

Haha, maybe my self esteem is that low. Here's what went through my mind when I made my ultimatum to leave. She cried (a lot of folks said crocodile tears, a lot of folks said otherwise) and cried, and begged me not to leave. She talked about how I could keep one of our cats, since the cat liked me more, and talked about how she would keep one of my worn shirts so she could remember my smell, and a pair of my stinky socks so she could remember how much she hated me putting my socks at the doorway next to my shoes. That night, I actually went upstairs and found her cuddled in the bed with one of my shirts. It was tremendously sad, so sad that I cried. I didn't break and say I'll do anything to keep you. I stood my ground but it was horribly sad, even though this woman has put me through hell. Then I thought of all of our dreams together, the fun times we've had and have had even since the infidelity (even though my days have also been filled with a lot of suppressed emotions). I also thought of how much I enjoy our conversations, and the way we like to eat and watch our favorite shows together. That's what made it so hard to leave, even after putting my fear of the unknown aside. It's just that on my bad days of recovery, I feel like I want to leave, and I keep flipflopping, like I mentioned earlier.

[nightmare01]

I think everyone has the potential to cheat. Everyone will be tempted at some time or the other.

 

Some make the choice to cheat, and some don't. I don't think there is a fool proof way to predict whether your partner will cheat though.

 

There probably are predictors though. Dating and relationship history, family of origin issues, and the friends they surround themselves with.. all those might give hint at the possibility of faithfulness. Still though, there isn't some kind of gene in there dna or brain scan we could run to find out.

[ShatteredLady]

The problem is I LOVE my fantasy world! My Dad NEVER cheated. It was actually a joke amongst their friends that there was this woman falling over herself to get my Dads attention & he was completely blind to it! My brother never cheated. He took his own life over infidelity.

I remember when I was about 17 (I'm 45 now) there was a boy I really liked. I wasn't happy with my boyfriend but I wouldn't go for a burger with this other boy because it would hurt my boyfriend! None of my friends understood. They all thought this new boy was gorgeous & couldn't understand why I didn't jump at the chance!! I split-up with my boyfriend before I would tak alone with him.

 

I read stories here. As a human being I have compassion for the pain that OW & OM are feeling but truly I don't get it. I confess that when my H hurt me & was still corresponding with HER after D-Day, revenge did cross my mind. I sank as low as giving my email to a guy I knew would send me beautiful poetry because I knew my H was reading my private things. I felt so guilty that I confessed the next day!! I can't even 'innocently' punish my H & create jealousy after everything he's done!

 

My mind accepts the 'fact' that I read here, "Given the right circumstances anyone can cheat!" but I don't believe it in my heart. I honestly know I could never do it. It breaks my heart to think its true. As I started this post "I LOVE my fantasy world" where human beings are loyal, kind & compassionate. I choose to believe that people are fundamentally good. More fool me? I CHOOSE not to believe that.

[TX-SC]

I think everyone has the potential to cheat. Everyone will be tempted at some time or the other.

 

Some make the choice to cheat, and some don't. I don't think there is a fool proof way to predict whether your partner will cheat though.

 

There probably are predictors though. Dating and relationship history, family of origin issues, and the friends they surround themselves with.. all those might give hint at the possibility of faithfulness. Still though, there isn't some kind of gene in there dna or brain scan we could run to find out.

 

She cheated four times, with three different guys. I don't think "everyone" has the potential to do that.

[TX-SC]

Haha, maybe my self esteem is that low. Here's what went through my mind when I made my ultimatum to leave. She cried (a lot of folks said crocodile tears, a lot of folks said otherwise) and cried, and begged me not to leave. She talked about how I could keep one of our cats, since the cat liked me more, and talked about how she would keep one of my worn shirts so she could remember my smell, and a pair of my stinky socks so she could remember how much she hated me putting my socks at the doorway next to my shoes. That night, I actually went upstairs and found her cuddled in the bed with one of my shirts. It was tremendously sad, so sad that I cried. I didn't break and say I'll do anything to keep you. I stood my ground but it was horribly sad, even though this woman has put me through hell. Then I thought of all of our dreams together, the fun times we've had and have had even since the infidelity (even though my days have also been filled with a lot of suppressed emotions). I also thought of how much I enjoy our conversations, and the way we like to eat and watch our favorite shows together. That's what made it so hard to leave, even after putting my fear of the unknown aside. It's just that on my bad days of recovery, I feel like I want to leave, and I keep flipflopping, like I mentioned earlier.

 

But, she's still lying! You know it, we know it, and SHE knows it.

.

[nightmare01]

She cheated four times, with three different guys. I don't think "everyone" has the potential to do that.

 

IMO those who cheat and "get away with it" are the ones most likely to cheat again. Hell, they'll even be better at hiding what they're doing.

 

So IMO cheating and gas lighting or just out and out lying to the BS and getting away with it is a very good predictor of future cheating.

 

Sure. Most WS say they will never do "that" again, but if they got away with it and temptation happens again, why not?

[tomcook]

The problem is I LOVE my fantasy world! My Dad NEVER cheated. It was actually a joke amongst their friends that there was this woman falling over herself to get my Dads attention & he was completely blind to it! My brother never cheated. He took his own life over infidelity.

I remember when I was about 17 (I'm 45 now) there was a boy I really liked. I wasn't happy with my boyfriend but I wouldn't go for a burger with this other boy because it would hurt my boyfriend! None of my friends understood. They all thought this new boy was gorgeous & couldn't understand why I didn't jump at the chance!! I split-up with my boyfriend before I would tak alone with him.

 

I read stories here. As a human being I have compassion for the pain that OW & OM are feeling but truly I don't get it. I confess that when my H hurt me & was still corresponding with HER after D-Day, revenge did cross my mind. I sank as low as giving my email to a guy I knew would send me beautiful poetry because I knew my H was reading my private things. I felt so guilty that I confessed the next day!! I can't even 'innocently' punish my H & create jealousy after everything he's done!

 

My mind accepts the 'fact' that I read here, "Given the right circumstances anyone can cheat!" but I don't believe it in my heart. I honestly know I could never do it. It breaks my heart to think its true. As I started this post "I LOVE my fantasy world" where human beings are loyal, kind & compassionate. I choose to believe that people are fundamentally good. More fool me? I CHOOSE not to believe that.

 

I like this post ShatteredLady. You seem like a very kind person. I would like to you all one thing if I may be honest. When I was 23, moving back to the US from overseas, I met up with an old friend, a female, who liked me a lot when we were young. I never liked her that way. Probably because I was too shallow. We met up, and went our separate ways, and I thought it was nice to see an old friend. She asked me out that night, and I wanted to say no, but because I felt bad about rejecting her as a kid, I went for it. However, a couple of months into the relationship, I met this girl that worked at a gas station. I invited her over. We hung out for a bit. There were no kisses or anything like that, but I had bad intentions. I felt horrible, and even more horrible now after all this has happened to me. At the time, I had ZERO dating experience. At 23 years old, I had never dated anyone, EVER. I had done very stupid things with a prostitute overseas at 19 with a bunch of foolish friends, and that's as far as my "dating" experience went. I should have known better, and I still feel bad, just because my intentions were bad. She did not deserve that. I should have been honest that I did not want to be with her to begin with. That was a terrible couple of months. I met my wife about a year later, and established the whole relationship on honesty and fidelity, and explained how serious it was to me. However, your story about the kid when you were young reminded me of my own story. Sad. I don't think she ever knew, but it's still despicable.

[sandylee1]

Tom

 

What I suggest, is that if this feeling of hurt just carries on, you leave. Set yourself a time of 1 year or up to 2.5 years and if you still find it's too much, don't waste more valuable time.

 

I read of so many betrayed husbands especially, who don't leave and even 20 years later they still have triggers and it NEVER EVER leaves their thoughts completely. 20 years on they have kids and possibly a wife who hasn't worked for years and the financial implications of divorce too much. These men wish they'd left at the time the affair was discovered.

 

When you have child and spousal support to pay you feel defeated. This is where I have a lot of sympathy for the higher earner (often the man), because your wife cheats and it hits you in the pocket.

 

Don't be there in years to come full of bitterness and resentment when you had the opportunity to end it much earlier and find a woman with decent moral standards.

 

3 guys is no mistake.

[tomcook]

But, she's still lying! You know it, we know it, and SHE knows it.

.

 

Yeah, she has gone over the top to convince me that there is truly nothing more that she can say. In fact, she said she's not going to fabricate something that didn't happen just to satisfy me. It's those words that put me in a difficult spot. It leaves me asking myself, "Is she maybe telling the truth, or not?"

[tomcook]

Tom

 

What I suggest, is that if this feeling of hurt just carries on, you leave. Set yourself a time of 1 year or up to 2.5 years and if you still find it's too much, don't waste more valuable time.

 

I read of so many betrayed husbands especially, who don't leave and even 20 years later they still have triggers and it NEVER EVER leaves their thoughts completely. 20 years on they have kids and possibly a wife who hasn't worked for years and the financial implications of divorce too much. These men wish they'd left at the time the affair was discovered.

 

When you have child and spousal support to pay you feel defeated. This is where I have a lot of sympathy for the higher earner (often the man), because your wife cheats and it hits you in the pocket.

 

Don't be there in years to come full of bitterness and resentment when you had the opportunity to end it much earlier and find a woman with decent moral standards.

 

3 guys is no mistake.

 

Thank you SandyLee. I hope you, and everyone here, can forgive me for the details I shared in that previous post. I would never ever consider myself as someone that was not loyal, but I briefly fit those shoes. Terrible. Anyway, thank you for your honest post. I will work as hard as I can to make it to the end of the one year mark. I am graduating in December (Yayyy!) so I know there will be a lot of stress in the house. Please do not go anywhere SandyLee, haha. I'll need your advice in the coming months.

 

Oh, and you're absolutely right. Three guys that she had been having an EA with for months is not a mistake. That is an extended string of bad decisions that she enjoyed while it lasted.

Edited September 6, 2015 by tomcook
Addition

[tomcook]

IMO those who cheat and "get away with it" are the ones most likely to cheat again. Hell, they'll even be better at hiding what they're doing.

 

So IMO cheating and gas lighting or just out and out lying to the BS and getting away with it is a very good predictor of future cheating.

 

Sure. Most WS say they will never do "that" again, but if they got away with it and temptation happens again, why not?

 

Thanks for your post Nightmare01. Well, since she technically didn't get away with it, and based on her behavior with me now, do you think there is a possibility she will stray again? I don't know how she would do it, because I would think she would be too afraid of not knowing in what ways I can get information that she would just abandon the idea. I wouldn't want her to not do it for that reason though. I would want her to not do because she is truly committed to her relationship.

[nightmare01]

What I meant to say is that cheating is a choice. Many people have the opportunity, and some make the choice to cheat while others don't.

 

I personally have never cheated on anyone - girlfriends, or my wife. I had the opportunity to do so, but that inner voice we all have was SCREAMING at me, and I listened.

 

I don't know what makes some people able to make the choice to cheat. IMO all the external stuff - my spouse or boy/girl friend neglects me.. whatever.. all those things are justifications to make the choice they already want to make.

 

It may be overly simplistic, but I think on the surface the process is simple.

1. An attractive person comes along.

2. They want to have an affair with them.

3. They think they can get away with it.

 

so they cheat.

 

I think a better and more productive question than WHY, is HOW a WS is capable of making that choice. I think fixing the HOW of it is a better predictor of future behavior than paying lip service to WHY and blaming the BS in the process.

[nightmare01]

Thanks for your post Nightmare01. Well, since she technically didn't get away with it, and based on her behavior with me now, do you think there is a possibility she will stray again? I don't know how she would do it, because I would think she would be too afraid of not knowing in what ways I can get information that she would just abandon the idea. I wouldn't want her to not do it for that reason though. I would want her to not do because she is truly committed to her relationship.

 

IMO a WS that does the internal work, builds strong barriers / walls, and guards themselves against future cheating is actually a better bet than someone who has never cheated and thinks they would never do that.

 

One knows the temptation and the devastation it brings and guards against it. They build strong walls and protect their heart.

 

The other just goes along with weak defenses and not realizing the strength the temptation can be.

[tomcook]

What I meant to say is that cheating is a choice. Many people have the opportunity, and some make the choice to cheat while others don't.

 

I personally have never cheated on anyone - girlfriends, or my wife. I had the opportunity to do so, but that inner voice we all have was SCREAMING at me, and I listened.

 

I don't know what makes some people able to make the choice to cheat. IMO all the external stuff - my spouse or boy/girl friend neglects me.. whatever.. all those things are justifications to make the choice they already want to make.

 

It may be overly simplistic, but I think on the surface the process is simple.

1. An attractive person comes along.

2. They want to have an affair with them.

3. They think they can get away with it.

 

so they cheat.

 

I think a better and more productive question than WHY, is HOW a WS is capable of making that choice. I think fixing the HOW of it is a better predictor of future behavior than paying lip service to WHY and blaming the BS in the process.

 

I can't agree with you more. I know with that girlfriend I had for a couple of months, I simply didn't want to be with her in the first place, and I was too much of a coward to tell her. I was too much of a coward to not accept her in the first place. Where was my inner voice? No idea. I must have been the most immature 23 year old out there. I don't know how fat I planned on taking it, but I was clearly in the wrong. I thought I was being nice by agreeing to be her boyfriend, but what I did wasn't too nice. I think you're spot on. I am not the cheating type. I absolutely am disgusted by it, long before I ever got cheated on. How I made such a selfish, stupid decision beats the hell out of me. Knowing that, and thinking about it now, considering how I feel, makes me wonder how in the world someone that is/has been married for three years can up and cheat on someone with several guys in a matter of days. All of the acts that my wife committed were between January 30 and February 5th, and there was a couple of days she was at home all day, so that's almost an event for each day. Disgusts me.

[tomcook]

IMO a WS that does the internal work, builds strong barriers / walls, and guards themselves against future cheating is actually a better bet than someone who has never cheated and thinks they would never do that.

 

One knows the temptation and the devastation it brings and guards against it. They build strong walls and protect their heart.

 

The other just goes along with weak defenses and not realizing the strength the temptation can be.

 

Love that post too Nightmare. You're on a roll. That probably explains my situation with old-friend-girlfriend in a sense. I did not apply reality to myself, and simply thought of no consequences or anything. I feel like my wife has put in a decent amount of work, but she is the type that's pretty friendly to guys. She's always made more guy friends, talks to them in social situations, or at stores. Even I do the social small talk at stores, etc, however, I always feel like that could go south with her pretty quickly. I can't explain it, but I feel like there's something there.

Edited September 6, 2015 by tomcook
Addition

[sandylee1]

Yeah, she has gone over the top to convince me that there is truly nothing more that she can say. In fact, she said she's not going to fabricate something that didn't happen just to satisfy me. It's those words that put me in a difficult spot. It leaves me asking myself, "Is she maybe telling the truth, or not?"

 

Have you suggested she takes a polygraph to prove it?

 

Cheaters are convincing. The number who swear on the life of their kids it wasn't a PA , only later it proves to be a lie.

 

If she's truthful, she'll jump at the chance to prove it. You need to get her to understand you're having a hard time trusting her right now and she needs to understand that.

[tomcook]

Have you suggested she takes a polygraph to prove it?

 

Cheaters are convincing. The number who swear on the life of their kids it wasn't a PA , only later it proves to be a lie.

 

If she's truthful, she'll jump at the chance to prove it. You need to get her to understand you're having a hard time trusting her right now and she needs to understand that.

 

That's a good point Sandylee. I have actually mentioned the polygraph, and her response was along the lines of yes she would do it although it makes her really sad that I do not trust her to that degree. What do you take from that?

 

Also, how much is a polygraph typically? I feel like it is quite expensive. I want to schedule an appointment so bad, but some of the prices I've seen are too much for me right at the moment.

[fellini]

It's ridiculous to spend the rest of your life thinking all women and all men cheat...

 

There is a HUGE difference between saying "any good person can cheat" and "all women and all men cheat". I said the former, not the later as you seem to suggest.

 

Maybe the issue is with your understanding of the english language, but I think my point was clear. I married what I believed to be a good woman 20 years ago. She cheated on me. This does not mean that I didnt marry a good woman. I did and she cheated. Other people marry a good person, and they do not.

 

It's not even necessary to believe that "we are all capable of cheating". I dont think that assertion is provable either way. But it is altogether clear that we can marry someone we believe to be incapable of cheating on us, only to find out somewhere along the path, that they can, and they did, or they are.