Am I Receiving Partial Truth?

[tomcook]

We cant make decisions based on fear. Fear is the worst advisor for our plans. You have to work with a therapist to help you find out why you feel you are not secure enough to stand on your own feet and demand the best for you. After you find the source of your insecurity and start to heal it or "undo" its damages in your psyche, only then will you be able to face this dilemma of staying or leaving. I realize that I was pushing you too much to make a decision you are not ready to even see now. It is like asking from a third grade kid to comprehend an adult novel, it doesnt have the abilities to do so. The same with you, you dont yet have the ability to make decisions that will benefit you because you are not aware yet how to love, respect and satisfy yourself. I am not saying this in a bad way, I am in the process of this journey to learn to love myself as well and it is a hard road tbh.

 

Thank you SummerDreams. I know you are not saying it in a bad way. I love the things you post, especially the last couple. You're completely right. I need to get past my insecurities and fears in order to be face this and make the right choice knowingly. I wish you luck on your journey is well. You're one of the many that do really good things on this board. Thank you.

[tomcook]

I did see that Tom. After I had posted what I posted.

There are sooooo many threads. And for years I posted on another forum as well and I honestly get some of the longer and more informational posts confused.

 

I think a good plan would be to work on you. Start taking better care of yourself. Work out. Dress up. Look nice and smell good. Don't discuss the relationship. She will begin to wonder what's going on if she cares.

 

I absolutely can't stand to see a guy ran over-which is why I post primarily to the BH.

 

You're doing an awful lot of work trying to make sure SHE stays faithful. Isn't it exhausting? She should be doing the heavy lifting at this point.

 

I've got a few guy friends. They just take take take from women.

 

On another note. Flip board Daily edition has a post on how to spot a liar today.

 

If I felt you had the truth then I would feel like you could move on. I don't. Going to be hard without it.

 

Thank you Mz. Pixie. It is incredibly exhausting. God. I poured my guts out to my best friend earlier today. I told him as much as I could think of. He was shocked, but handled it well. He argued in favor of reconciliation, but I told him not so fast. I'll check out the "Hot to spot a liar". You are great to be here supporting the BH. We need you here. You're right. Would definitely be hard to move on without it. I got some updates, but I'll post those here in a second in a general reply.

[tomcook]

I've been traveling on business today so I'm a little too swamped at the moment. But yes, I'll return and give a cliff notes version and my $.02. There are some parts of the story that are very applicable to Tom here and it's tough to watch him put himself thru the same torture that so many of us BHs do. He's perfectly normal but needs help to clear his own fog. Infidelity packs quite a whallop.

 

ETA: I'll also include links to some of my old threads.

 

Thanks for your post BetrayedH. I can tell from the way you talk that I am definitely in a fog, but it's nice to hear from some of the legends of LS that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It does pack a punch indeed. It's been one S.O.B trying to get through. Hands down, hardest thing I've ever dealt with, and largest range of emotions ever experienced in a 6-7 month period.

[tomcook]

The most recent one is here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/529576-bust-not-bust

 

As for more - just pick out some older threads with "wife cheated" type titles and read the first couple of posts by thread starter. There are so many men who simply don't want to see the truth early on and will actively help their WW hide things by not asking questions. Not admitting to "full on sex" is standard unless you have proof when you bust them.

 

I can see what you mean by not admitting to full out sex. I'll post my updates in a second. I like to do individual replies first so you all know I care about each and every one of your posts. Zinger's story was crazy. Again, he sounded so much like me at the beginning. He had that same wild rollercoaster of emotions, but still wanted to believe/trust his WW. Just goes to show me I guess.

[tomcook]

Just ask her to tell you how it happened. You know the sort of thing: "We walked to the car and we both got into it and sat down."

 

And then what happened. And if she tells you she doesn't remember, don't believe her.

 

I'm not trying to be mean. This is going to have to be resolved or you will NEVER feel really comfortable with her.

 

And remember, she's got several scenes to explain.

 

Oh she definitely has had several scenes to explain. She tried tonight after some pressure. I'll explain in a minute in a general reply. I may have to use this further but we will see. Do I feel pretty confident she told me everything? Yeah (you'll need to read the next post to find out), however, the trickled truth would have me guessing otherwise as usual, but still too early to see how my gut feels. No more suspense. I will get to my general reply now.

[tomcook]

So all my favorite LS'ers, I live the nightmare once more. I finally got her to budge and give me more info. We argued. I told her that I told my friend, and if there was any chance I would be staying, it would be because of him. She got upset because she thought I was willing to work on everything and that I wouldn't leave. I explained to her that my emotions are constantly changing and I cannot predict how I'm even going to feel the next day. I had a long talk with her, and told her that I want a separation. She agreed. She cried. I did not budge. I told her that I loved her, and I know that she loves me, and I understand even the best of us mess up, but that still doesn't undo the damage. Then I asked if I was to book the polygraph, would you pass, because I'm going to make the appointment. Then I asked her if there was more, and told her now or never because we're on the brink of divorce, and I caught one of the looks she gives me right before divulging more information. She gives some kind of half smile and looks up in the air. Then she said there was one more thing. She said that the ex-fling tried to get her to have sex, and she said "No, I can't do that" so he asked if she could at least finish him off. She says she wanted to get it over with, so she gave him a hand job and then, what do you know, a blow job for a little bit because she thought he was expecting it based on their last time several years ago. I know the way she admits to some of it, she does it in a way that makes her have seemed disgusted, forced, whatever. I feel like that has to be at least partially bull****, and I'm sure it's done to soften the guilt or it's embarrassing, all of the above. Whatever though. She said the second *******, the one she messed with twice she did the same thing for the second time, but he pulled her head over and was forceful with her. She didn't get him off though apparently. One thing I also discovered today through questioning, sadly, is that I had assumed that last guy was last. He was the one I had assumed she stopped after me getting sad about her what I knew at that time to have been flirting, but I believe she did the thing with the ex-fling after that point (the order was wrong), like the day after. So, despite my sadness with just flirting which would have been February 5th confrontation, I think she went ahead and did it one more time the next day. Not 100% on that timeline, but I think that's what happened. The actual D-Day was March 4th. It took me a month of forensic craziness to get her to admit to an actual physical infidelity. Anyway, I didn't budge on the separation. I tried to show her that it was better that she told the truth. She said she had wanted to for so long but it's so embarrassing. I told her later that I don't want to view her as a perpetrator. I want to eventually forgive her, and I do believe she is a good woman that royally ****ed up, whether that's staying together or being apart. I also told her that I am sure we are better people from this experience and that we have both learned a lot. She told me how much she loved me, and all the things she loves about me, and how she is sure that she only wants me in her life, and she will never do this again, and so on. There was lots of sweet stuff there. I thanked her, but completely refused to budge on the separation though, and made it clear that I may realize how much I appreciate her during the separation, and I may not. I wasn't a complete ******* with it, but I just tried to make it clear that I am not in a good place with all of this, and the end may be near, but I WILL eventually forgive her with either outcome, and I will always care about her.

 

This is not the end of my posts obviously. I'll probably be posting like a madman now, but I would like once again (you all are probably sick of it by now) to thank you all for everything. You all know your stuff pretty well. I believed you but needed to also partially give her the benefit of the doubt. You are all wonderful people, and I can't thank you enough. I feel like **** now, haha, but I can still laugh and say thank you very much everyone.

Edited September 9, 2015 by tomcook

[SummerDreams]

One of the reasons people get in relationships is to feel secure and satisfied in it. A spouse who cheats does not lose in an instant all of their good assets and the good memories dont get erased but this feeling of security is forever lost. It is like the feeling you have when you are chilling at home and someone breaks in, all the calmness and chill feeling you have in your house is lost. Tom, your wife is still a good person, I do believe she is too young to appreciate a good man like you, I think she is still in the phase of wanting the bad guy. I can bet my head that 10 years later she will tell you she regrets losing you and she didnt have the ability back then to appreciate you. She seems like an immature young woman who has little experience of what a marriage is or should be like and is unaware of the pain she has caused. It may be because she may have girl friends who cheat on their boyfriends and it is OK. I am indeed cutting her some slack due to her age. BUT I do care about you and your happiness, so I still believe you wont be able to gain this calmness and trust in your marriage. A really wise man once said about his wife "she is a great woman but she is not suitable for me". I wont tell you again to stay or leave - I will insist on you doing some IC though that will guide you through the steps you need to take for your own happiness.

[Mz. Pixie]

Ic definitely a must. Sigh. My heart hurts for you.

[fellini]

My first gut feeling from your last, long post is that you talk too much to your WW about your thinking processes.

 

You are trying to get your WW to stop trickle truthing and to come clean, but you give her too much on her plate to deal with.

 

People under duress will tell you only what they think you need to know without telling you the white lies. And the more you say to her about how you are going to take it, what this means, that you believe she is a good woman, etc. is just feeding her crap mechanism input for her to output.

 

You cannot be her therapist and husband and best friend and lover and betrayed husband at the same time.

 

Next time you try a "truth" session try just sitting there and WAITING for her to speak. Don't prompt her! This is what she wants. Like a teacher in front of a class of kids, they learn if they don't answer the teacher's questions she will answer them herself.

 

You want to know what is in her head then you have to keep quiet and LISTEN TO HER. LET HER SAY ALL SHE HAS TO SAY.

 

And Ill tell you something very concrete: My wife was SO desperate NOT to tell me information about her AP which SHOWED her to be, in fact, the "perpetrator" of going physical that it took her 9 months to tell me the truth.

 

Stop feeding your WW information BEFORE she gets a chance to say things in HER WAY because once you let a version of the truth ride long enough, it becomes her new invested reality to defend.

 

Good luck moving forward. I hope the information you have solicited from her doesn't bore a hole in your brain. I asked for ZERO information about the physical, but I had the advantage that she never denied physical from the moment I found out about the A.

[Mz. Pixie]

My first gut feeling from your last, long post is that you talk too much to your WW about your thinking processes.

 

You are trying to get your WW to stop trickle truthing and to come clean, but you give her too much on her plate to deal with.

 

People under duress will tell you only what they think you need to know without telling you the white lies. And the more you say to her about how you are going to take it, what this means, that you believe she is a good woman, etc. is just feeding her crap mechanism input for her to output.

 

You cannot be her therapist and husband and best friend and lover and betrayed husband at the same time.

 

Next time you try a "truth" session try just sitting there and WAITING for her to speak. Don't prompt her! This is what she wants. Like a teacher in front of a class of kids, they learn if they don't answer the teacher's questions she will answer them herself.

 

You want to know what is in her head then you have to keep quiet and LISTEN TO HER. LET HER SAY ALL SHE HAS TO SAY.

 

And Ill tell you something very concrete: My wife was SO desperate NOT to tell me information about her AP which SHOWED her to be, in fact, the "perpetrator" of going physical that it took her 9 months to tell me the truth.

 

Stop feeding your WW information BEFORE she gets a chance to say things in HER WAY because once you let a version of the truth ride long enough, it becomes her new invested reality to defend.

 

Good luck moving forward. I hope the information you have solicited from her doesn't bore a hole in your brain. I asked for ZERO information about the physical, but I had the advantage that she never denied physical from the moment I found out about the A.

 

Great post. Honestly I'm not sure why he doesn't listen when statistics are against him.

[tomcook]

My first gut feeling from your last, long post is that you talk too much to your WW about your thinking processes.

 

You are trying to get your WW to stop trickle truthing and to come clean, but you give her too much on her plate to deal with......

 

It is pretty much boring a hole into my brain, but I chose this route so I get to deal with it. You're right, I can't be all those things at once and my pushing for information might cause a minimization on her account of what really happened. When you say, wait for her to speak, do you mean not ask for information, and wait for her to come out with the truth on her own? Thanks for your post Fellini.

[tomcook]

Great post. Honestly I'm not sure why he doesn't listen when statistics are against him.

 

Hey Mz. Pixie, which statistics are against me that I'm not listening to? Probably a dumb question, my mind is all over the place today.

[tomcook]

Oh, also wanted to let you know that I bought the Kindle version of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" based on Sandy's recommendation, and have already started reading it.

[qubist]

Tomcook: you are burning a lot of energy right now Which only going to stress you more, you need an IC, she does too, you need it to make sure you are not influencing your decision by possible personality flaws, and she needs it because she needs to find out why she went after multiple A when she claims that she loves you,

You seem to be a very nice guy who is too concern about everything and everybody else except himself.

Hold on to any major decision till you see a therapist

[BetrayedH]

Should you become bored and have a few days to burn...Here are some links to my threads in the early days. Note: Numerous posters were over the top with their criticisms of my choice to reconcile and thus, their posts and/or entire accounts were deleted, so the threads can be a bit disjointed from time to time.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/282823-next-steps

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/296614-impasse

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/304233-revenge-affairs

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/311238-trickle-truth

 

Take what lessons you will from it. Personally, I think your wife is still lying. Those guys had their way with your wife, she loved every minute of it, they finished wherever they liked, and left her both spent and wanting more. She's just continuing to try this balancing act of giving you what "honesty" she must in order to avoid you leaving but leaving out what she predicts to be dealbreakers for you.

 

My wife did much the same. I found 17 hotel stays, she admitted to more like 30, and the reality was closer to 70. With each trickle truth, she cried and said that I now knew everything there was to know and that she'd never lie to me again. On each occassion, it was a lie. There was always more. The truth is that she reveled in the fact that I'd never know how the OM had taken her on our couch, even though she'd long denied he'd ever been in our home. And my suspicions about her having a threesome with the OM and a prostitute were true. In fact, the guy she's currently dating is one I suspect that she's been with both before and during our marriage.

 

My other threads as BH can show you how much you can truly lose yourself in trying to stomach all of this crap.

 

My suggestion...get off this rollercoaster. Don't use this separation (kudos to you for that firm decision, by the way) as an opportunity to "let absence make the heart grow fonder." Use this separation as an opportunity to detach. Practice the 180, file for divorce, and rebuild your life. The sooner you do it, the sooner your next stage in life will begin.

[sandylee1]

My first gut feeling from your last, long post is that you talk too much to your WW about your thinking processes.

 

Stop feeding your WW information BEFORE she gets a chance to say things in HER WAY because once you let a version of the truth ride long enough,....

 

I totally agree with this. You're saying too much and giving her too much comfort. It's almost like you're separating....but WILL BE BACK.

 

If I were your wife, I'd believe from what you said that you'll be back because you love her too much.

 

If she actually had an incling she could really play you Tom.

 

And don't believe they didn't go all the way........Some WS have taken over 2 years to admit the truth about it being a full PA .

[fellini]

He is exactly where he thought he would end up.

 

What flavour of sex is the dealbreaker. Personally if physical were the dealbreaker, then he knew more than he needed to know pages ago.

 

Weighing the difference between a "BJ" and going all the way is merely a strategy to put off the decision: Do you want to go forward knowing it was physical sex or not?

 

Really, given these were ONS style encounters and not LTA's what could have it been other than physical?

 

None of these issues entered into my decision making Tom: I knew that she was a) in love and b) he was in love with her and c) it went physical. There was nothing left in my WW's A other than to leave me for him.

 

It's no easier on the trauma of betrayal, but the question I put to myself was much more basic: Stay and rebuild, if possible or GO. I can always GO at any time, but once I do, it won't be to come back.

 

And don't believe they didn't go all the way........Some WS have taken over 2 years to admit the truth about it being a full PA .

[tomcook]

Hmm, I swear, I don't realize the way things come out of my mouth until someone points it out later sometimes. Thank you. I guess it's too many God dang years of being Mr. Nice Guy. So, I can't really tell where you guys stand now. I'm sorry, I'm just really slow comprehending everything today. You all think there's more, and I for the most part believe you, because you were right last time and you all have a lot of experience. However, are you wanting me to push more? Like, I can see BetrayedH is pushing for 180, rebuilding my confidence, and divorce. So, he is suggesting I use the separation to actually detach myself from this relationship, not to grow fonder of it. Where does Sandy and Fellini stand on this aspect? All opinions are welcomed of course.

[RightThere]

Glad to hear you are going through with the separation. Even if it just gives you some time to yourself to get your head clear, that is the most important thing.

 

Also I'm sure you probably realize it, but there has to be more to her story than she's told you. It is very common that the WS will tell you the version where they did "some" sexual stuff but it was all for the other man and they didn't enjoy it and it was just "finishing the deed."

 

Don't believe it for a second. What she's admitted to, there is probably 10x that much she hasn't told you. Women are sexual beings and when they feel lust, they will fulfil themselves.

[aliveagain]

All you have to do is read the other posts on LS to know your wife is blowing smoke up your a$$. Now it's a hand job and some head, really? Three years from now it will be, ya, she had protected sex with one of them but it only lasted 7 seconds and she hated every moment of it. My ex never ever admitted to infidelity even though there was an affair child that a DNA test proved 99.9999999% chance he wasn't mine. If she lets you put your fingers in her, has your penis in her hand and in her mouth why wouldn't she allow more?

[tomcook]

Glad to hear you are going through with the separation. Even if it just gives you some time to yourself to get your head clear, that is the most important thing.

 

Also I'm sure you probably realize it, but there has to be more to her story than she's told you. It is very common that the WS will tell you the version where they did "some" sexual stuff but it was all for the other man and they didn't enjoy it and it was just "finishing the deed."

 

Don't believe it for a second. What she's admitted to, there is probably 10x that much she hasn't told you. Women are sexual beings and when they feel lust, they will fulfil themselves.

 

Yeah, it sucks to imagine that there's more, but I can't help but believe you. You're most likely right. We shall see. Yeah, I'm also glad I can get some time away from her too. We're still figuring out the details, duration of the separation, and yes it is hard at the same time, but I think it is good too.

[tomcook]

All you have to do is read the other posts on LS to know your wife is blowing smoke up your a$$. Now it's a hand job and some head, really? Three years from now it will be, ya, she had protected sex with one of them but it only lasted 7 seconds and she hated every moment of it. My ex never ever admitted to infidelity even though there was an affair child that a DNA test proved 99.9999999% chance he wasn't mine. If she lets you put your fingers in her, has your penis in her hand and in her mouth why wouldn't she allow more?

 

Yeah, I hear you man. The "hated every moment of it" part as well as the "only 7 seconds" or "it wasn't that deep", etc really bother the hell out of me. It's the damn trickled truth that's a son of a bitch too. It's like, no matter how many times I imply that trickled truth is a death sentence, it doesn't change a thing. Ahh well, EXACTLY! I just noticed that last sentence you wrote again. Exactly. If you allowed all of that ****, and you are in the heat of the moment, how did you NOT have sex with them. Bahhh, I'm probably on the bull**** train still, but screw that. I'm not staying on this train very long. I'm going through with what I have planned and I am keeping my damn foot down this time, no matter how much it hurts me in the short term.

[qubist]

Tomcook: stop exhausting yourself and act. abviousely she didn't tell you the whole truth which is very normal regardless if she is remorseful or not , we have seen it in almost every infidelity case.

Separation is good but you should also use that break to help yourself. you should consider an IC. as for your Wife just tell her that you are disappointed at her not telling you everything if she insists suggest that you would schedule a polygraph test with an ultimatum if she fails you are out for good and see her reaction

[turnera]

I'm 28 and she's 23 if that's of any relevance here.

Yes, it is. She's too young to be married. I tell people to never marry before at least age 25. Your brain isn't done maturing and changing and growing. Who you eventually become is often miles away from who you were at 21, 22, 23.

[TX-SC]

Tom, I'm really sad that you are going through this. You really need to just get a divorce and find a good partner. There is a very basic reality here that you need to stay focused on:

 

Your wife had sexual relations with three different guys and continues to lie to your face about all of this. Please don't be a doormat anymore. I'm begging you. Grow up and ditch her for good. Your posts are getting to be hard to "swallow" these days. It's just so depressing.