Am I Receiving Partial Truth?

[sidney2718]

She gives some kind of half smile and looks up in the air. Then she said there was one more thing. She said that the ex-fling tried to get her to have sex, and she said "No, I can't do that" so he asked if she could at least finish him off. She says she wanted to get it over with, so she gave him a hand job and then, what do you know, a blow job for a little bit because she thought he was expecting it based on their last time several years ago. I know the way she admits to some of it, she does it in a way that makes her have seemed disgusted, forced, whatever. I feel like that has to be at least partially bull****, and I'm sure it's done to soften the guilt or it's embarrassing, all of the above. Whatever though. She said the second *******, the one she messed with twice she did the same thing for the second time, but he pulled her head over and was forceful with her. She didn't get him off though apparently.

 

Tom, I'm sure you've noticed that she told you WHAT happened, but not HOW it happened. You don't just get into a car and slide your hand into a woman's pants. There was stuff first. Perhaps kissing? You need to know. The story above doesn't mention how he got into her pants.

 

Why is it important? Because at some point she gave implied permission for him to go further. Or at least she let him go further without stopping him.

[sidney2718]

I will confront her, and you're completely right about it destroying her in my eyes. I am going to come out and ask when I see her next. We are already separated. She is at a friend's house (or at a boyfriend's house getting it on), but I may meet her later this week. It does feel like crap that it is coming to this, but I know this is what I was leaning to from the beginning. It's just been hard to get here with all the tears and manipulative remarks. If she really cared, she wouldn't have continue to trickle the damn truth. Oh, and you proved it. I still don't believe she told me the whole truth. What a load of ****. I know this might be too personal of a detail, but the oral stuff, I enjoy it as a guy. I have to admit it. It's a different kind of intimacy, both ways. EXTREMELY RARE in our relationship though, but with these dudes she was just like "Hey no big deal". Disgusting. To think of it being worse just sickens me.

 

So oral was "EXTREMELY RARE" in your relationship with her and she was "Hey no big deal" with the BF and you don't understand why?

 

It could be the "madonna/whore" complex where she was a very good girl with you because you represent stability, safety, and so on, and a very bad girl with the OM because she enjoys being "bad" and she knows she's committing adultery anyway.

 

Or it could be that it was rare with you but she began to enjoy it with the other three guys she's been seeing while married to you.

 

Or it could be something else. But one thing seems clear to me. She enjoys being pushed around a bit by other guys. You are playing the role of her father who disapproves of her dating those other skeevy guys.

[sidney2718]

Thank you road for this very informative explanation. I apologize for my rant in the post right before this. It's not aimed at you obviously. It's just been a frustrating day. That is what I assumed, part of what I heard from a couple of posters, and now you have broken it down a little more. Now, you are the one appealing to my sympathetic side.

 

I know it has to be hard for her. It's hard for me to admit the truth of things, and I believe she loves me and wants to be with me. That may be the one thing I do believe. However, the trickled truth is crushing. She said she wanted to tell me in our talks that we agreed to, but we never got to having one of the talks because we were both busy. She said it's embarrassing and she didn't want to hurt me. I get it, or at least I partly believe that.

 

She basically said in a text today that she didn't think she would have the chance (or courage, not sure) to tell me sooner than 5 years from now or something. So, I told her to imagine that. You're not telling me because you don't want to hurt me, but you want to tell me 5 years from now when I finally get back to being myself a little more only to devastate me, and make me feel the betrayal is present tense again, but even worse now. How can that be an ideal route to take? I get her approach. I do get it, but it should also be obvious that would kill me to hear that. You want me to go 5 years in possibly, waste more of my life, and then hear it. What if THAT was my dealbreaker? I would have wasted nearly 10 years of my life with someone who was stabbing me in the back through the willful omission of facts.

 

That's it. You are done. See a lawyer ASAP and file. The sooner you get this over with the sooner the pain will go away.

[Bigdaddyt]

I think you and I are mostly on the same page, especially with the claim that I will not get over the sexual component. However, according to some of the other posters like Fellini or Road for instance, I may not have given myself enough time to truly "get over" it. What is your opinion on that aspect? Of course, no matter what way I eventually take, I am still doing the 180, and if I choose to reconcile for some reason, then I will be writing up a reconciliation agreement that wouldn't just cover infidelity. It would also have to cover all of the other mistreatment in the relationship. I totally agree on the comfort part though. I feel like check had already checked out of the marriage when she cheated based on what she said which is understandable. Sometimes, things just don't work out. So yeah, I think she was just as scared to see it end, and chose to go ahead and get some side action. What do they say? She went ahead and had her cake and ate it too.I think the same applies to me, as you or another poster mentioned a few days ago. I am trying to do the same thing, except without the cheating. I am trying to free myself from her, start life 2.0, but I also am choosing to stay for the comfort, routine, and familiarity of my life with her. The mind can really work against you.

 

Tom, I am at the same point in my marriage as you are. I just filed for D yesterday and I will have her served early next week. I put up with her neglect, lies, abuse and disrespect until it was too much to bear. You will make your choice when you know that it is too much for you to bear. I wish you good luck.

[SummerDreams]

Tom I am not advising you to divorce her for her past actions rather than to prevent the future ones. I wont feel good with myself if I let such a woman bring a kid to this world who will be doomed to be miserable and insecure. My words are harsh but I feel great responsibility towards kids and their well being and it is the reason I chose my partner for and the reason I still havent brought to the world until I feel I will be as good mother I will be able to be. I bet this is an angle you hadnt considered before.

 

You also told me that your wife had some good traits when you met her. I am not implying these traits are lost, but rather useless when infidelity, immaturity, disrespect and deceive come into play. You know what I mean? It is like you choosing to eat a peach that seems perfect from the outside, then you take the first bite and see bugs in it and I tell you "stop eating it!" and you continue eating saying "but when I started eating it it seemed so perfect!".

 

Tom, I agree with the posters who said take spme time to think but I hope this time is used to improve yourself rather than starting to miss her and minimize her infidelity.

[tomcook]

After the initial severe shock and anger and pain of d-day begin to wear off - maybe a few days - I think a BH knows whether he can ever get past the sex. For some men "sex is just sex" and they are much more hurt by the emotional aspect and all the lies. Of course the sex hurts but it is not their primary focus of her cheating. But for many men the sexual part is a killer. These are men who view sex as sort of sacred and something that is exclusive to their relationship. Something that they promised they would never share with another. Those men - and they know who they are very early after d-day - those men shouldn't even try reconciliation. Most of them will at least stay and try to re-orient their world. They try to see their wife and marriage the way it used to be and hope that a miracle will happen and things will be good again. But, in their heart, they know that they will never look at her without seeing her as tainted. They know that reconciliation means they settle for a woman who betrayed them in the worst possible way.

 

You know if you can ever get past the sex. And I don't mean just learn to live with it but actually accept it and rebuild everything from there. You know enough to make this determination now and you don't even know the full extent yet. So your choice is to end your marriage quickly and start working on your personal healing or stay where you are and slug it out for a while.

 

You trying to "have your cake and eat it too" is unfair at this point. You've been devastated - discovering such a betrayal is a shock to your very soul. For you to react in this knee-jerk, all-over-the-place, crying one minute and hopeful the next is typical of nearly every BS. As you begin to absorb the reality of it all you will want to make decisions. No one wants to stay stuck in pain and you will try to find a way to move forward and find healing. For now I strongly urge you to go completely No Contact with your WW and use the solitude to decide on what path you want to move forward on.

 

Thanks drifter. That was a very insightful post. Perhaps you are correct. You most likely are. I can't remember how I felt a little while after it happened and things settled down. I felt bitter, but there were days I was able to have fun and be myself and truly believe that I could work this thing out, no problem. I was trying to remember today what reignited me, and it was as stress was starting to pile on. We were packing, getting ready to move, and I came across a lot of triggers. Then school started while in the middle of the move. I had to enroll in 18 hours instead of 10 for my senior semester unexpectedly. It's my final semester and I have the future on my mind. My uncle was hospitalized, and later died. I'm falling behind in classes because of the rough start. When I thought of all of that today, I wondered if maybe some of the other posters had a point.

 

Maybe the stress is contributing to my anger (although I AM obviously pissed at her as well for very valid reasons), but maybe I am not 100% in the major life decision making department right at this very moment. That is not to say I can't take this, I must reconcile, but maybe I should spend some serious time reflecting without her in my life and treat it as serious of a decision as it is.

 

Your post seems very logical and level headed. As was mentioned by qubist, Fellini, and I'm sure many posters that I have not credited by name, I need to NOT make a hasty decision without giving it thought, maybe some IC, and some NC (based on your recommendation).

 

I have been leaving her hopeless since the separation started. I made her feel like divorce is imminent. I would love to give her some hope that maybe when the emotions aren't running high and I can think with a clear head/no interference from her, perhaps there is hope for at least a trial R. However, given the circumstances, I am not sure if that's a smart move. I don't want to make her so hopeless that she does something stupid (which would be 100% her responsibility still), but I also don't want to give her hope to where she thinks "Haaa! I still have him by the balls. He's a pushover and very predictable." So, with great discomfort during some parts of the day, I have stayed pretty firm with her, and very short with what I have to say. However, I will let her know that NC is the best option for now.

[tomcook]

That's it. You are done. See a lawyer ASAP and file. The sooner you get this over with the sooner the pain will go away.

 

Thanks for your post Sidney, all three of them. Yeah that part about oral is really messed up. Like it's no problem if she didn't care for it that much with her husband. Everyone has their preferences, but hearing that really made me sad. I know what you mean about the pain going away sooner, but I do think the other posters have a decent point about waiting it out for a little bit and really giving myself time to think of my ultimate decision, as opposed to making an emotionally charged decision to divorce while I am clearly still very angry. As far as the how, yeah, I would love to know. I think I may have asked but we got too deep into the oral/hand job bull crap. I honestly doubt I'll ever know ANY of the intimate details or how things came about (better timeline), whether divorced or not. I will ask her for a proper timeline similar to BigDaddyT I believe, but based on what I've learned from you guys and sadly firsthand now is that it will probably be 10x worse in reality and be missing much of the juice of the story. That's one of the reasons I've taken it so hard. I don't know about others. It's that feeling of knowing that you weren't there and can't possibly know everything the way her and the scumbags do, and probably never will know the half of it. What're you gonna do though? Nobody said life was gonna be fair, so screw it. I will not give in to her emotional persuasions though. Nope. I'm taking as much time as I need until I feel ready to make an appropriate decision.

[tomcook]

Tom, I am at the same point in my marriage as you are. I just filed for D yesterday and I will have her served early next week. I put up with her neglect, lies, abuse and disrespect until it was too much to bear. You will make your choice when you know that it is too much for you to bear. I wish you good luck.

 

Thanks a lot Bigdaddyt. I'm honored that you would post something on my thread considering the lousy time you've been going through. I've read your thread and it is a tearjerker. It's good to see someone in nearly that same phase as me. I will take what you said there to heart. Despite my early sluggishness, I know I will make the right decision when it's too much to take.

 

Thanks again for your post. I wish you the happiest, greatest years of your life ahead, and I know they will be. You're the man.

[SummerDreams]

I know what you mean about the pain going away sooner, but I do think the other posters have a decent point about waiting it out for a little bit and really giving myself time to think of my ultimate decision, as opposed to making an emotionally charged decision to divorce while I am clearly still very angry. .

 

I am afraid the suggestion of waiting before acting is used by you as an excuse to avoid reality and I hope I am wrong. The more you wait (havent you already waited enough? 7 months is an enormous time, she had her chances to come clean and try to remorsefully win you back) the more you will minimise the truth ("well kissing them is not that bad, she was mad at me - letting them touch her inappropriately? Not really that big of a deal, after all she says she loves me - BJ? Not the end of the world, I cant lose my life as I know it, I'll just forgive her" and so on). Waiting will not make her to instantly grow up, take infidelity seriously, feel remorse and reveal the whole truth. Waiting will make you even weaker in her eyes. I suggested you to dedicate the waiting time to improving yourself, not to minimizimg the facts and eventually becoming her doormat again....

[tomcook]

Tom I am not advising you to divorce her for her past actions rather than to prevent the future ones. I wont feel good with myself if I let such a woman bring a kid to this world who will be doomed to be miserable and insecure. My words are harsh but I feel great responsibility towards kids and their well being and it is the reason I chose my partner for and the reason I still havent brought to the world until I feel I will be as good mother I will be able to be. I bet this is an angle you hadnt considered before.

 

You also told me that your wife had some good traits when you met her. I am not implying these traits are lost, but rather useless when infidelity, immaturity, disrespect and deceive come into play. You know what I mean? It is like you choosing to eat a peach that seems perfect from the outside, then you take the first bite and see bugs in it and I tell you "stop eating it!" and you continue eating saying "but when I started eating it it seemed so perfect!".

 

Tom, I agree with the posters who said take spme time to think but I hope this time is used to improve yourself rather than starting to miss her and minimize her infidelity.

 

Don't worry SummerDreams. For the most part, I am on the same page as you. I did not consider the children thing to begin with, but I have considered it many times since. I do not want to bring children in this world who have to grow up in a broken home. That's how I grew up, and my parents lived on opposite ends of the world (I would have hoped that you already guessed Tom Cook is not my real name ). Again, you're on fire with the analogies I guess. I like the peach analogy, and it's absolutely true. Sad, but very true.

 

I also have come to agreement with the posters. I should definitely take some time. You all had to beat some sense into me to go one direction, now you had to beat some sense in to me to not go TOO far and make a hasty, not well thought out decision in the heat of the moment. I will honor that. I will try to reflect on this as best as possible, and I will still try to detach myself, get used to life alone, take care of me, enjoy my time, and be as happy as possible, just so I am at least prepared. I will definitely not bring a child into this world if I am to reconcile later. She will get a trial period if she is lucky enough to be granted the second (third considering the recent major trickle truth?) , and that's about all she will get.

[tomcook]

I am afraid the suggestion of waiting before acting is used by you as an excuse to avoid reality and I hope I am wrong. The more you wait (havent you already waited enough? 7 months is an enormous time, she had her chances to come clean and try to remorsefully win you back) the more you will minimise the truth ("well kissing them is not that bad, she was mad at me - letting them touch her inappropriately? Not really that big of a deal, after all she says she loves me - BJ? Not the end of the world, I cant lose my life as I know it, I'll just forgive her" and so on). Waiting will not make her to instantly grow up, take infidelity seriously, feel remorse and reveal the whole truth. Waiting will make you even weaker in her eyes. I suggested you to dedicate the waiting time to improving yourself, not to minimizimg the facts and eventually becoming her doormat again....

 

No no no. Read my response to you. It explains. You should have waited for my response. Being her doormat, AGAIN?! Certainly not! What I meant is that once I cool down, I can be damn sure I don't make a decision which I may beat myself up for later. Even if it was right, I may what-if forever about what I would have done had I given myself enough time to absorb what she said. Of course, improving myself and getting used to life without her is part of this whole thing. Do I want to avoid reality? Sure. That's the type of person I am, but I have been working very hard against my own nature to stay short with her, to enact the separation, and to be a man of my own. You gotta give me some credit for that, right? One step at a time. My strength fluctuates throughout, but everyday I am a little stronger than before.

[Bigdaddyt]

No no no. Read my response to you. It explains. You should have waited for my response. Being her doormat, AGAIN?! Certainly not! What I meant is that once I cool down, I can be damn sure I don't make a decision which I may beat myself up for later. Even if it was right, I may what-if forever about what I would have done had I given myself enough time to absorb what she said. Of course, improving myself and getting used to life without her is part of this whole thing. Do I want to avoid reality? Sure. That's the type of person I am, but I have been working very hard against my own nature to stay short with her, to enact the separation, and to be a man of my own. You gotta give me some credit for that, right? One step at a time. My strength fluctuates throughout, but everyday I am a little stronger than before.

 

Tom, What you are going through is tough and we all want to avoid the reality that our WW has put us in. You did nothing wrong that cuased this infidelity to occur. You are doing a great job of being strong and balancing your hurt and anger with your obvious love for your wife. I would tell you to take your time before making a decision to D. I made my decision over time and would encourage you to do the same.

[SummerDreams]

I am sorry Tom, I read your reply after I had submitted my post. Of course I give you credit for all the strength you have shown. My concern exists cause I care for you and I want to continue seeing you strong. I am a stranger but I am proud of you and I am sure you will choose the path that makes you happy. I bet you will be here x months later making a thread called "I divorced my cheating wife only to find a woman who shows me what true love is every day" or something like this.

[eric1]

Tom,

 

I don't want to suggest that you are over-thinking this, but I think you're right that you need a few days to take a few big deep breaths and get your legs steady underneath yourself.

 

There is a lot going on in your life right now, you're both physically and mentally going to ruin yourself if you try to process it all at once.

[Mz. Pixie]

Try to breathe. I personally think you're overwhelmed and all over the place.

 

Try focusing on you. Read some articles about mindfulness. Get out of your head for a bit. What you should do will come to you.

[aliveagain]

The only hope you should give her is that your watching her actions. She's not too believable right now so anything coming out of her mouth isn't too believable. No matter what, she put herself in that place with three different men and oral is still sex, she had sex with at least two of them. She should be getting help to find out why she allowed herself to do these things so she never does them again with you or a future relationship. Three guys in a young marriage, I've got to tell you the odds are very against you guys making it, three guys is hard to get over specially when she gave them things she won't give you. You have to really thing hard, do you really want to get over this with her?

[runredlights]

I've got an idea. You demand that your wife text the men that she was involved with and have her ask them what happened. Have your wife say that she was drunk one of the nights and couldn't remember. This way you could see it for yourself unfiltered from the other guys. If she has nothing to hide why wouldn't she do this for you...?

 

It's invasive, but if you really want the gory truth you should make her do just that. If she refuses, the you have your answer. If you see it verbatim then there's no way she can downplay it. I mean really, make her send a semi flirty sounding text to all of the guys where she asks this and then you'll know.

Edited September 11, 2015 by runredlights

[runredlights]

I guarantee you she will **** her pants if you force her to text these men and then show you the messages. Don't ask. Force her to do this. You shouldn't trust a word that comes out of her mouth. By standing over her shoulder and making her text each man a flirty question to your liking about what transpired, you can bet you will get a very different story compared to her version of the truth. You should hover over her until the second she gets a reply and read it for your own eyes. Can't you see these guys remembering what they did to your wife when she texts them, those men getting all hot and bothered with a little sexting, and seeing exactly what happened. Not trying to be too crass, but I think this would give you the truth man.

[drifter777]

Hello, I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Earlier this year, I found out that my wife cheated on me after a rather large argument. I had been in a crummy mood because a couple of days earlier, I had found out that she had worked with an ex-lover for several months without telling me. I forgave, but was upset, so her natural response to this was to cheat on me with this very individual, and 2 others, one whom I also had a problem with her talking to prior. It's an interesting story, but I'll try to keep it short.

 

Anyhow, when I dug around for an entire month, she finally revealed to me that she did in fact cheat, but never had sex. There was just kissing, and the men pleasured her with their hands. Later on, after more pushing, I realised that two of them exposed themselves but there was no physical contact. I've asked her repeatedly to give me the full details, and most importantly if she had any additional physical contact (sexual intercourse, oral, etc) and she says no.

 

I'm six months in, and still healing, but I still find it hard to believe. I would like to know the readers' opinions, whether good or bad. If you need any additional details to fill in any gaps I may have left, please let me know in your responses. Thanks in advance to all of you.

 

This is your original post. Cheating with three men - that you know of - means she's a serial cheater. Lying about her mouth-to-penis contact until this week - still claiming no intercourse. You have no children with this woman. You are both in your 20's with your whole lives ahead of you. Why are you putting yourself through all of this pain and drama?

 

Twenty-seven pages of back-and-forth on this thread - I'm embarrassed to be part of it any longer. Leave, get the divorce, and start over. You owe her nothing so don't worry about how she makes ends meet. It's not your problem. Stop the back and forth in your mind because that is just self-punishment for no reason. Stop it and move on.

[tomcook]

Tom, What you are going through is tough and we all want to avoid the reality that our WW has put us in....

 

Thanks for your response Bigdaddyt. I will give it a little time to make my final decision.

[tomcook]

I am sorry Tom, I read your reply after I had submitted my post....

 

Thanks for your post. I didn't mind SummerDreams. No big deal. Thanks for being proud. I know the stranger thing you're referring to. I feel a little bit closer to all of you everyday. It may not be a traditional relationship/conversation, but you all have become an important part of my life. I will give it time, make the right choice, and give you updates throughout the deciding phase.

[tomcook]

Tom,

 

I don't want to suggest that you are over-thinking this, but I think you're right that you need a few days to take a few big deep breaths....

 

Thanks Eric. I shall get it together, and I shall take your advice. I will be waiting for at least a few days to cool down, process things one at a time, become clear headed, then make a decision. I even had an appointment with my counselor today to discuss it. She normally leans more towards R, but even she suggested that I go NC with the wife, but with a proper explanation of why.

[tomcook]

Try to breathe. I personally think you're overwhelmed and all over the place....

 

Thanks Mz. Pixie. I do need to get out of my own head and go NC. I'm part of the way there, but it needs to go all the way. So far, life is good. There is a lot of anger, sadness that comes in little bursts, but for the most part I am trying to feel decent and enjoy myself. I will read some articles about mindfulness right after I finish replying to everyone. Thanks for the advice.

[tomcook]

The only hope you should give her is that your watching her actions....

 

All very good points AliveAgain. That's the thing. What she did is absolutely outrageous, and she is most certainly not believable. In fact, I have started to question most of what she has told me for the past year or more. In fact, if I made my choice right now, I would say "Hell no! I can't get over this. It angers me more than anything." However, I do know (according to my firsthand experience and the other posters' experience, such as yourself) that this decision would be based entirely on my emotions running high. I want to base my decision on pure no nonsense logic. However, you're points, every single one of them are spot on. Young marriage, three guys, gives them things that are rare in our own relationship, completely sickening.

[tomcook]

I guarantee you she will **** her pants if you force her to text these men and then show you the messages. Don't ask. Force her to do this....

 

Haaaa! I actually thought of something almost exactly along those lines. I wasn't sure if it was a smart decision or not. I may do it. Why the hell not? If I could spoof her number, I would just do it from my own phone.