I wish women would just tell the truth when they are not interested.

[serial muse]

If a guy is not an established friend of yours and he wants to spend time alone with you, it's because he is interested in you. Either he wants to date you or just have sex.

 

Very few straight men are looking to make strictly platonic female friends.

 

OK, but people are saying to you that if you want women to assume this without it being said explicitly, then you should be fine with assuming things without being told explicitly too. That's the issue here. You can't really complain about women not being direct if you aren't willing to be.

[xxoo]

That's the issue here. You can't really complain about women not being direct if you aren't willing to be.

 

At the very least, someone who struggles to be direct when asking a woman out should understand why women struggle to be direct when saying they aren't interested. It can be very awkward for both parties when the interest is not mutual.

[somedude81]

But women do have male friends we don't want to sleep with, for a variety of reasons. Why is it the woman's responsibility to understand your unstated motives and state her position on dating you?

 

How is a woman not wanting to sleep with her friends at all related to what I said?

 

Women should just know that most guys who want to be alone with her have more than just friendship on mind. That would remove a lot of awkwardness in male x female interaction.

[serial muse]

How is a woman not wanting to sleep with her friends at all related to what I said?

 

Women should just know that most guys who want to be alone with her have more than just friendship on mind. That would remove a lot of awkwardness in male x female interaction.

 

And guys should just know that a woman not saying yes is effectively a no. That too would remove awkwardness.

 

C'mon, somedude, people have said this to you a bunch of times now. Are you really not going to acknowledge the justice in this? It is so bizarre to me that you don't see this double standard you've set up.

[somedude81]

And guys should just know that a woman not saying yes is effectively a no. That too would remove awkwardness.

 

C'mon, somedude, people have said this to you a bunch of times now. Are you really not going to acknowledge the justice in this? It is so bizarre to me that you don't see this double standard you've set up.

 

But a woman not saying yes is not a "No never. It will never happen until the end of time no"

[xxoo]

But a woman not saying yes is not a "No never. It will never happen until the end of time no"

 

So, ask again. Ask as many times as you wish.

 

Until and unless you get a "yes", the answer is "no".

[xxoo]

How is a woman not wanting to sleep with her friends at all related to what I said?

 

It's related because it is insight into her perspective. Maybe she'd like to be your friend. Maybe she senses that you need a friend, and would like to help in that way.

 

Women should just know that most guys who want to be alone with her have more than just friendship on mind. That would remove a lot of awkwardness in male x female interaction.

 

It would remove a lot of awkwardness if women could read men's minds, or men could read women's minds. But we can't, any better than you can.

 

You are saying that it would be clearer to you if women stated disinterest boldly.

 

I'm saying that it would be clearer to you if YOU asked boldly.

 

Which is under your control? What women do, or what you do?

[Imported]

Exactly. A woman can only respond to the directness of the question asked, whether she is 90% sure he means it as a date or not.

 

For example:

 

 

 

I love that response from SolG, and it was what prompted my post about being clear in asking for a date (rather than a friends thing), because it may feel presumptuous to answer that way if a guy were beating around the bush and not clearly asking her on a date. But it's a great response if he has clearly asked.

 

 

I am very indirect in my approach and dealings with a women I want to ask out, but when I actually ask it is very direct. There will not be any confusion here.

 

I hate using "PUA" terms and I honestly haven't read much of it other than to know some of their terms, but it's a friendly "game" of escalation in which I reveal my intentions and interpet her response which decides if I continue on. By the time I actually ask, I already am 90+% sure she is agreeable with me. It's an absolute shocker to me to get anything but a positive response. Especially from ones I don't really know as they are usually too excitable and give themselves away.

 

Seriously, a lot of the stuff about body language and cues apply.

 

Just talk with women. Don't even ask them out. It's usually very appearant if they want to get to know you better. Then you ask them out.

[preraph]

A woman saying no isn't likely ever to be into you very much. I mean, you can find an exception to everything if you're willing to go to the very tail end of the bell curve and dwell there. Women are quite keen on dating and getting a boyfriend, so if they're the least interested, it will be "yes" as long as they're not already in a relationship. If it sounds like an excuse for a specific day, they will either suggest another day or be sure to cross your path soon to remind you to ask them out again.

 

And certainly not all women know that men are mostly interested in having sex and not just being friends, so if you want to have a conversation about who isn't being upfront and honest about something, have that conversation because I don't see any men coming around a girl they know is crushing on them and saying outloud "I don't want to bang you, but I do want to hang with you" either.

 

 

It's just not that hard to tell if someone is interested -- unless you just don't want to accept it.

[Phoe]

If a guy is not an established friend of yours and he wants to spend time alone with you, it's because he is interested in you. Either he wants to date you or just have sex.

 

Very few straight men are looking to make strictly platonic female friends.

 

I suppose it's possible, but I have no experience with this. Men who aren't my friend aren't trying to hang out with me, so I'd have no idea what the context is like for that situation.

[somedude81]

I suppose it's possible, but I have no experience with this. Men who aren't my friend aren't trying to hang out with me, so I'd have no idea what the context is like for that situation.

 

I can always count on you to give a response that completely throws me off

 

It may be the environment you're in. At my school I am always seeing guys trying to spend more time with girls they just met. Though some girls do have more guys interested in them than others.

[somedude81]

A woman saying no isn't likely ever to be into you very much. I mean, you can find an exception to everything if you're willing to go to the very tail end of the bell curve and dwell there. Women are quite keen on dating and getting a boyfriend, so if they're the least interested, it will be "yes" as long as they're not already in a relationship. If it sounds like an excuse for a specific day, they will either suggest another day or be sure to cross your path soon to remind you to ask them out again.

 

That's really only if the women is interested in having a boyfriend and is somehow single.

 

Pretty much my whole point is that I don't want to interpret all maybe's as a no. That would make life far less fun and I'd have nothing to look forward to. Deep down I want to feel that I have a chance with a woman who doesn't give me a solid no.

 

And certainly not all women know that men are mostly interested in having sex and not just being friends, so if you want to have a conversation about who isn't being upfront and honest about something, have that conversation because I don't see any men coming around a girl they know is crushing on them and saying outloud "I don't want to bang you, but I do want to hang with you" either.

 

IMO it should be common knowledge that men want to have sex with women. If a guy is single, odds are he's going to be looking for a woman to have sex with, some may want a relationship and some may just want sex, but none of them are looking for just friends.

 

It's just not that hard to tell if someone is interested -- unless you just don't want to accept it.

 

Unless a woman is being really obvious then I can't tell if she's not interested. It's even harder to tell if she is being friendly with me. Another part of it is not wanting to accept that somebody I like isn't interested in me. But even I can't keep pretending when things are thrown in my face.

[thefooloftheyear]

That's really only if the women is interested in having a boyfriend and is somehow single.

 

Pretty much my whole point is that I don't want to interpret all maybe's as a no. That would make life far less fun and I'd have nothing to look forward to. Deep down I want to feel that I have a chance with a woman who doesn't give me a solid no.

 

 

 

IMO it should be common knowledge that men want to have sex with women. If a guy is single, odds are he's going to be looking for a woman to have sex with, some may want a relationship and some may just want sex, but none of them are looking for just friends.

 

 

 

Unless a woman is being really obvious then I can't tell if she's not interested. It's even harder to tell if she is being friendly with me. Another part of it is not wanting to accept that somebody I like isn't interested in me. But even I can't keep pretending when things are thrown in my face.

 

Its not that hard....

 

-You text her, and shell text you right back...If you dont text her, she will text you....

 

-She is thrilled to hear about you and what you are doing..even if its absolutely nothing.

 

-If you make plans she wont cancel....even if her grandmother died an hour before the date...Shes dead...she can wait...

 

-She wont make plans with her friends instead of you...she'll ditch them in a heartbeat....

 

-If she looks at you like a dog looks at a steak..

 

 

I dont believe in maybe...If the light isn't green its red....There is no yellow here..Its there or its not...I know there are stories of love that sprouts from long term friends..but I think thats pretty rare..

 

If you think its maybe....then its no...She just hasnt gotten up the nerve to tell you yet...

 

TFY

-

[somedude81]

Its not that hard....

 

-You text her, and shell text you right back...If you dont text her, she will text you....

 

-She is thrilled to hear about you and what you are doing..even if its absolutely nothing.

 

-If you make plans she wont cancel....even if her grandmother died an hour before the date...Shes dead...she can wait...

 

-She wont make plans with her friends instead of you...she'll ditch them in a heartbeat....

 

-If she looks at you like a dog looks at a steak..

 

 

I dont believe in maybe...If the light isn't green its red....There is no yellow here..Its there or its not...I know there are stories of love that sprouts from long term friends..but I think thats pretty rare..

 

If you think its maybe....then its no...She just hasnt gotten up the nerve to tell you yet...

 

TFY

-

 

Those sound like things that a girl who is REALLY into somebody would do. As I keep saying, I don't expect girls I'm meeting at school to be extremely into me before we've been on one date. That is completely unrealistic.

[Burp]

As a male who's had those subtle signs..... I will say this. YES, I know it. That's that thing they talk about.. "confidence".

 

I'm not sure about you, but here's my take on it. It's one of those "fruedian" thoeries of mine. How it always goes back to our youth and sexual things.. That, a few times long long ago, I had girls literally say "Damn you are cute.. you are hot.. I'm horny.. I want to have sex with you".

 

Now given we were 18 19ish.. times were different. But, it's hearing THOSE WORDS that I equated with the "green light".

 

Later on, it's more subtle. But I understood why. Because at 19 often we only met 4 or 5 in THE WHOLE WORLD we have any real attraction/interest in.

 

By 21 it's like 43. Thus, she can't be that obvious. Otherwise, there'd be 33 guys like, uhhh, but she said she liked "me"???

 

Duhhh. She has to be subtle. Then the 1 out of 33 guys who "read correctly" and goes with it.. ding ding, we have a winner.

 

 

My take on it now, as I suspect you too, is, we just WANT her to ONLY see us, not those other 32 guys, and so she CAN just be outright brutally upfront, because, then it's like our "greedy desire to be the ONE on the WHOLE PLANET" is met.

 

Or something like that...

[clia]

Pretty much my whole point is that I don't want to interpret all maybe's as a no. That would make life far less fun and I'd have nothing to look forward to. Deep down I want to feel that I have a chance with a woman who doesn't give me a solid no.

 

This just seems so illogical. Why intentionally set yourself up for disappointment?

[xxoo]

 

 

 

IMO it should be common knowledge that men want to have sex with women. If a guy is single, odds are he's going to be looking for a woman to have sex with, some may want a relationship and some may just want sex, but none of them are looking for just friends.

.

 

Your "should" is yours, not common to all. Some men can be friends with a woman because he's got his eye on someone else,or this woman isn't his type, or this woman is far too old/young for him to seriously date, or many other reasons. Others may want to date, but are also on with friends, because they are interested in dating many girls and don't need to date them all. Among social people, this may be far more common than you realize.

 

All of college culture is not going to change for you. You need to adapt to succeed.

[serial muse]

Pretty much my whole point is that I don't want to interpret all maybe's as a no. That would make life far less fun and I'd have nothing to look forward to. Deep down I want to feel that I have a chance with a woman who doesn't give me a solid no.

 

Well, this is how you get overly attached to women who aren't really interested. I mean, this is it in a nutshell.

 

I don't think that accepting that anything but a yes is effectively a no has to = nothing to look forward to. It should equal turning your emotions and attention elsewhere; not getting caught up in something with a low chance of success. Diversifying. If you get more adept at it, you might even start to enjoy it a bit. Enjoy the ride. It looked for a minute like you were starting to, but then you got obsessed with busy girl again.

 

And the thing you really can't ignore, SD, is that this strategy has never worked for you. Not once. Ever. You can't even count your ex in this because you did not use that strategy with her.

 

I don't think any woman is going to find it appealing that you can't take a hint, especially if you get mad because she can't. What you call common knowledge should, AGAIN, work both ways! Seriously. Double standard.

[xxoo]

 

Pretty much my whole point is that I don't want to interpret all maybe's as a no. That would make life far less fun and I'd have nothing to look forward to. Deep down I want to feel that I have a chance with a woman who doesn't give me a solid no.

 

Basically, you prefer fantasy over the reality.

 

Which is ok, as long as you understand the difference.

[preraph]

IMO it should be common knowledge that men want to have sex with women. If a guy is single, odds are he's going to be looking for a woman to have sex with, some may want a relationship and some may just want sex, but none of them are looking for just friends.

 

It should be, but trust me, it isn't. I actually had a lot of male friends and I had no idea about that in my 20s at all. I had a guy tell me that once in my 30s, but I just took it to mean he was that way.

 

Unless a woman is being really obvious then I can't tell if she's not interested. It's even harder to tell if she is being friendly with me. Another part of it is not wanting to accept that somebody I like isn't interested in me. But even I can't keep pretending when things are thrown in my face.

 

There are a lot of things women don't know. For instance, I was fully over 40 before I realized how important boobs are to men. I literally never paid any attention to how big a woman's boobs were at all, so looking back, I was a bit mystified why some more homely girl attracted the guys, and it was because of boobs. I was lucky I came of age in a time everyone on TV wasn't siliconed and everyone in magazines wasn't airbrushed, so expectations weren't as high, but it was shocking to me when I read some book that said that was the main thing for a majority of guys. I mean, I was by no means naive, but I just couldn't believe it could all hinge on a couple of flesh flaps. I still can't. Women are not like that about men at all. They mostly don't hone in on one body part and disqualify a guy for it (for men I guess it's shortness and baldness).

 

It's hard to tell who likes you and how much for both men and women. Maybe even harder for women because of the fact that guys always stare at their bodies and stuff, which seems to mean interest, but isn't always.

 

I've had a handful of male friends who were very confusing about their intentions. I never did figure out one of them. We did a lot together, worked together some, and he was interested in my love life and a gossipy guy, extremely handsome, and we even went out of town overnight -- and nothing ever happened, not even a kiss. Fortunately, I was mostly in love with someone else during my friendship with him so I didn't get focused on him to get obsessed. I did finally throw in the towel after he invited me one day to go to the amusement park with him and 2 other people and I said yes. And then he told me the 2 other people backed out. So we went anyway, and I thought it was a real date, but he wouldn't even touch me at all riding rides or anything. It was very awkward. After that, I stopped even trying to figure him out.

 

Later, he married the completely psycho female-hating Motley Crue-banging wife of my ex-bf after they broke that marriage up. I just couldn't understand it. I thought he was waiting for just the right woman to have kids with or something and then he picked her. I honestly think it was because he relished taking her from my ex-bf whose company he'd been fired from before I knew him, and because she had gone to culinary school and he also enjoyed cooking. But she was a total psycho.

 

So it's not just women who are hard to read and who don't tell you what's going on. I have been confounded by any number of guys who didn't seem to know whether they wanted me or not. It's just not worth it! I was a pretty cool person back then and I want someone who likes me at least as much as I like me, so these lukewarm guys just don't get it with me. Everyone deserves someone who really thinks they're the s**t.

[KeepCalmCarryOn]

No one would want to be mean and admit that.

[ASG]

Post from your other thread

 

 

One thing that I have a serious problem with is that I want to pick a fight with a girl through text once I feel I don't have a shot with her and want to blow everything up. So like an idiot I sent her a text asking her what happened today and that she was acting cold towards me. Several hours go by so she ignored my text and I'm happy with that.

 

Then around 9:30 I get a reply,

 

"Was I? Sorry I haven't been feeling good all day. I had a little fever earlier."

That wasn't the reply I wanted!

 

She's such a sweet girl and now I feel bad that I made her think that I thought she was being mean to me.

 

The bolded, right there? Is why women might prefer to not say no straight away.

 

So... I think you need to really look at yourself and improve on those traits, before you start demanding honesty... Because no one wants to be made to feel bad for not liking you the same way you like them...

 

And the sad thing is, it happens too many times! And it's sad.

[xxoo]

Women and girls do learn early that a rejection can result in nastiness, so it's safer just to be nice and hope to avoid anyone's anger.

 

It sounds like the girl was reverting to niceness in that reply in response to the anger. Predictable.

[Taramere]

Women and girls do learn early that a rejection can result in nastiness, so it's safer just to be nice and hope to avoid anyone's anger.

 

It sounds like the girl was reverting to niceness in that reply in response to the anger. Predictable.

 

Yes. In some ways it's easier to be rejected than to do the rejecting. Being rejected is just an attack on your self esteem which is something you can take steps to recover from. However, if you're doing the rejecting you're potentially triggering a bad reaction in somebody who can't or won't take responsibility for handling the negative feelings of being rejected. In extreme cases, your act of rejection might trigger an abusive, vengeful response.

 

It can be damned if you do, damned if you don't - depending, of course, on the man in question. If you're indirect, or make pacifying excuses "you're a nice guy, but I just want us to be friends" or "I got back with my ex" then you're a cowardly bitch. If you're direct "I'm sorry but I'm not attracted to you" then you're a harsh, cold bitch. Of course, the likelihood of you being painted as either of those things depends on the person being rejected.

 

Somebody who works hard to be mature and enlightened will probably just accept that there is no such thing as a pleasant rejection, and appreciate any efforts the other made to either soften the blow or to be direct in a way that would provide some sense of finality/resolution. Damned if you do or don't inevitably comes when the person being rejected just doesn't have the coping mechanisms to deal with it - and isn't really interested in trying to develop those coping mechanisms.

[somedude81]

Bringing back this old thread as a few things happened and I'm starting to realize some things about women.

 

There was a girl that I was very interested in who I referred to Busy Girl in my threads.

 

Before I went on vacation at the end of December I messaged her on Facebook I invited her to go out dancing with me or to have a drink to celebrate the end of finals. I have her phone number but the message would have been a bit long for text.

 

She replied that she didn't think she would be able to because she was going home for Christmas in a few days. I don't remember what my reply to her was but she ignored it.

 

A couple weeks go by and for the hell of it I messaged her asking how her trip back home was and invited her to go out dancing. A few days pass and she doesn't reply. I assume she's given me the fade and I delete her from my phone.

 

Seemingly randomly, she messages me 5 days later after my last message, "Hey sorry I just saw this. I'm not back in town yet."

 

We exchange a few casual messages and I mention dancing in a couple of them. I learn that she hasn't gone out since the last time we went dancing as a group two months ago. My message mentioned that we should do something about that when she's back in town, something about her work and also said something about her cats. The only thing she mentioned in her reply was the cats.

 

Looking at the content of her messages she never once talked about us going out dancing. Not saying that it's a good idea, or that she'll let me know when she gets back etc. It almost feels like she is now replying to me out of obligation. She's a very nice girl but she obviously has no interest in doing anything with me.

 

At this point it seems that there isn't any reason to reply to her last message and just leave her alone from now on. She may message me one day to go out dancing, but I doubt it.