I wish women would just tell the truth when they are not interested.

[GravityMan]

I try to keep it simple in my mind...

 

"Yes" (or suitable synonym) means yes.

 

ANY response other than the above means no 90%+ of the time, and 100% of the time means I should back off. If she is truly interested in me, she will suggest a specific alternative, indicate when she is free, or reach out to me a bit later. And her body language, word choice and tone of voice will be positive or even enthusiastic. Those cases clearly indicate that she does want to see me, but has other important commitments in her life that she prioritizes. It's also a sign of maturity and self-respect on her part.

 

It's really not that hard. Feeling "grief" over an indirect response is silly and ridiculous...you care way too much and you come off desperate. Don't hang your entire manhood on your ability to get a date; there's way more to life than that. It's also emotionally unhealthy to consider every "no" a "rejection" in the first place. Rejection means she (or he) clearly noticed something about you that she disliked, and felt that she could do better. Many nos are just due to her being unavailable, or not in the mood to date, or her feeling that you're a solid guy but just not a good match or no chemistry. In each of those cases she is actually doing you a favor by turning you down. Take it in stride and keep your head up.

 

It does help if the guy and woman are in their mid 20s or older, but even some women in their late teens or early 20s that are somewhat mature and confident will make it fairly clear that they want to see a guy they're interested in, and will reach out if necessary. I've experienced that myself.

 

Lastly, many decent guys spend a little time chatting casually with the woman, reading her body language, and seeing if there's a natural connection there...before deciding whether to ask her out or not. That way, assuming the conversation(s) goes well, he already has a pretty good idea that she'll accept before he even asks. Assuming he has a basic grasp of human and social psychology. Hence those guys don't get turned down very often.

[sweetjasmine]

I'd prefer that a man who is going to be strongly affected by my response just not ask in the first place, so I don't have some presumed and uninvited responsibility for his feelings.

 

Yup.

 

Blame it on the manchildren who throw temper tantrums like spoiled toddlers when they don't get what they want. I learned the "don't be too direct" lesson in high school when a guy flipped the f- out and later in the day punched a female friend of mine in the arm because he was still upset I said no and have seen other women learn the same lesson at older ages. And I re-learned that same lesson when I was older and broke up with someone who couldn't handle my directly telling him it was over. He wouldn't leave me alone and thought he'd retaliate to my breaking up with him by doing something quite nasty.

 

I never know if I'm dealing with another one of these volatile, emotionally fragile, entitled guys who's going to blow his top if I'm too direct, so I'm a believer in playing it safe.

[ThaWholigan]

I don't care if she's direct or not. I'll know when my advances aren't going anywhere.

[somedude81]

Lastly, many decent guys spend a little time chatting casually with the woman, reading her body language, and seeing if there's a natural connection there...before deciding whether to ask her out or not. That way, assuming the conversation(s) goes well, he already has a pretty good idea that she'll accept before he even asks. Assuming he has a basic grasp of human and social psychology. Hence those guys don't get turned down very often.

 

That's exactly what I do.

 

I only ask out girls I've spent a good amount of time talking to and I feel that they enjoy my company and that we have some sort of connection. I don't ask out a lot of girls, probably less than I should be.

 

BTW, I actually do get a yes at first. The first girl I asked out insisted in putting her number into my phone herself. And then she started to become wishy-washy. The second girl was after we just had lunch together and had a really good conversation and she seemed excited about going out.

 

It just feels like these girls are changing their mind about me after I'm gone.

[johan]

I don't care if she's direct or not. I'll know when my advances aren't going anywhere.

 

This is my take on it. But maybe you and I would feel differently if we were unable to read a woman's signals or if we were just ignoring the signals hoping for something different, pushing the envelope until she's forced to almost retaliate. I think dating is about reading signals. Even in the animal world, females tend not to just put up a sign and say "go for it". Male animals often have to pick up on clues and signals telling them whether the next step forward is a good one to take or whether to back off.

 

Maybe also the premise behind the thread is that a woman is either interested or she isn't. Black or white. "I'm interested now, and I always will be." Or, "I'm not interested now, and I never will be."

 

That's often not the case. She's giving it time and seeing what kind of guy you are. Throwing the door wide open is not a winning strategy. Neither is sealing it shut. Whether she's interested or not, it's not always in her best interests to say so. Maybe she is interested at one point, but then the chemistry changes. And, of course, there isn't generally just one guy hovering around her. As long as she isn't dead sure about any one guy, she's not going to make any major decisions about any of them until she has to.

 

I'd also say that the original poster has also made it clear that success to him is defined as getting a date or two and some sex. Hookers and nymphomaniacs and women who are really hurting in life tend to think like that. (And now I imagine SD might be thinking, "fine, then where can I find some damaged women? They sound like just my type!") Normal women are thinking much farther down the road

[somedude81]

This is my take on it. But maybe you and I would feel differently if we were unable to read a woman's signals or if we were just ignoring the signals hoping for something different, pushing the envelope until she's forced to almost retaliate. I think dating is about reading signals. Even in the animal world, females tend not to just put up a sign and say "go for it". Male animals often have to pick up on clues and signals telling them whether the next step forward is a good one to take or whether to back off.

 

Maybe also the premise behind the thread is that a woman is either interested or she isn't. Black or white. "I'm interested now, and I always will be." Or, "I'm not interested now, and I never will be."

 

That's often not the case. She's giving it time and seeing what kind of guy you are.

 

Of course I know that a woman isn't all or nothing. Yet everybody here is pretty much saying that they are. The whole, anything abut an enthusiastic yes is a no. If a woman isn't fully into me, she isn't going to give me strong signals that she is right? So yes, I'm having trouble reading those signals.

 

That's why trying to date is so frustrating.

 

 

(And now I imagine SD might be thinking, "fine, then where can I find some damaged women? They sound like just my type!") Normal women are thinking much farther down the road

 

Why do you say crap like that johan?

[xxoo]

Of course I know that a woman isn't all or nothing. Yet everybody here is pretty much saying that they are. If a woman isn't fully into me, she isn't going to give me strong signals that she is right? So yes, I'm having trouble reading those signals.

 

A woman interested at all will say "yes" to a date and agree to a time/place.

 

The interest should steadily increase from there if it is going to develop into something. More contact, longer dates, her suggesting some dates, etc.

 

If she isn't yet interested, but is curious about you, she may offer and excuse and continue to be friendly. You can ask her out again if you want. Just don't start focusing on her and fantasizing about how perfect life would be with her before she even says "yes" to a first date!

[Haydn]

This.........

 

Should be pretty clear.

 

 

I don't care if she's direct or not. I'll know when my advances aren't going anywhere.

[somedude81]

A woman interested at all will say "yes" to a date and agree to a time/place.

 

The interest should steadily increase from there if it is going to develop into something. More contact, longer dates, her suggesting some dates, etc.

 

If she isn't yet interested, but is curious about you, she may offer and excuse and continue to be friendly. You can ask her out again if you want. Just don't start focusing on her and fantasizing about how perfect life would be with her before she even says "yes" to a first date!

 

That is exactly what I'm talking about. Women that aren't quite interested in me yet but "curious." They are ones who I consistently deal with and they aren't giving me a solid yes or no.

 

Hopefully when a woman is more interested in me, she will be more consistent with her yeses.

 

Still, I hate getting a maybe from a woman and wish she would just say no.

[xxoo]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. Women that aren't quite interested in me yet but "curious." They are ones who I consistently deal with and they aren't giving me a solid yes or no.

 

Hopefully when a woman is more interested in me, she will be more consistent with her yeses.

 

Still, I hate getting a maybe from a woman and wish she would just say no.

 

Just assume no, then, if you can't handle the uncertainty.

 

But this is just one more way you limit yourself, being impatient and getting stuck on women you barely know. If you could engage with the "maybes" breezily over time, some might shift to yes. Completely unpredictable which ones.

[somedude81]

Just assume no, then, if you can't handle the uncertainty.

 

But this is just one more way you limit yourself, being impatient and getting stuck on women you barely know. If you could engage with the "maybes" breezily over time, some might shift to yes. Completely unpredictable which ones.

 

LOL!

 

So in the end the best thing to do is just not care and have fun with them. Maybe I'll get lucky and maybe I won't.

 

Now I just have to figure out how not to care.

[xxoo]

LOL!

 

So in the end the best thing to do is just not care and have fun with them. Maybe I'll get lucky and maybe I won't.

 

Now I just have to figure out how not to care.

 

YES! Finally, you get it.

[Anela]

I've had three different guys keep trying, no matter how many times I told them where to go, or avoided them (the last one was the guy who was sort of stalking me). All three weren't emotionally healthy, and two had serious girlfriends who adored them (one of those couples is now married, the other broke up, because he wanted an open relationship - the girlfriend is now engaged to a man who adores her as much as she does him). Practically-stalking guy was briefly engaged, and when that ended, he resumed his trying to trap me into a date (as did his mother).

 

This is why I'm still single.

[OwMyEyeball]

LOL!

 

So in the end the best thing to do is just not care and have fun with them. Maybe I'll get lucky and maybe I won't.

 

Now I just have to figure out how not to care.

Can't care about what you don't think about.

[MissBee]

Some people don't like confrontation, so they avoid saying "no".

 

The rule to remember is that a woman who is interested will say "yes" when you ask her on a date. "No" means no. "I'm busy" means no. Other excuses mean no, too, even the convincing ones, unless immediately followed by her proposing a specific alternative date.

 

Ditto.

 

I think it's a part of social intelligence to be able to realize when you're being rejected even if the person isn't in your face blunt about it. That's not everyone's personality to be super blunt, so instead of thinking that a rejection will always be someone saying "I'm not interested please go away", it's up to you to realize the other obvious signs of rejection too, one being tons of excuses! A person who likes you will not make a ton of excuses so if someone is doing that, they don't like you, take it as that and don't sit there waiting for them to slap you upside your head with the obvious.

 

As a woman I've also had to learn through experience what a man who is interested looks like and one who isn't or who isn't that into me but maybe a little into me. In my experience of dating the two are obvious. A man into me will not leave me confused about his interest or guessing or dealing with excuses or feeling strung along, simple. if I am questioning his interest or feel unsure and strung along 10/10 times it's because he is not that into me. While with every man who was, I had no time to second guess because they showed me through calling, texting, going out with me, asking me to be their gf etc that they liked me.

 

If a woman or man is "hard to read" they most likely don't like you. Just assume they don't like you if they give you excuses or if things feel unsure or like they aren't going anywhere. They are either painfully shy and awkward (and for me if a man is so shy and awkward that I have to guess if he likes me I'm not into it) or the more common reason: they don't like you or at best are ambivalent about you.

Edited October 25, 2014 by MissBee

[ThaWholigan]

LOL!

 

So in the end the best thing to do is just not care and have fun with them. Maybe I'll get lucky and maybe I won't.

 

Now I just have to figure out how not to care.

You've had a million suggestions on how not to care - perhaps have a read over some of your mammoth threads and you may find some answers

[DBryYES]

Excuse me If I am biased because this is something I feel very strongly about since I was a victim of a flake except both times a girl actually said yes. However the day before the dates she would postpone because she was sick. She told me that she had a cold(I can't believe I did not see that coming before). We would reschedule another day, but the day before again, her cold was still bothering her. So another reschedule. Third time, no reply back. So that was the end of that.

 

Second time a few months later, a girl accepts my date, but reschedules twice. The second reschedule, she said she would call when she got home. No call back. I thought I learned my lesson from last time and decided she is not interested. But she called back and said sorry. If she was not interested, she would have never called back. That's what i assumed. So I gave her the benefit of the doubt and we rescheduled to the next day. But when I called the day of our new rescheduled date, this girl did not even reply to my text or answer my calls. I got left completley hanging.

 

See both these girls were clearly not interested in me, but by accepting a date and not giving me a clear indication that they did not like me, I spent days preparing for a date that was never going to happen. Even though we never really got close, it was a fustrating experience because I got my hopes up for nothing.

 

Don't give anybody the impression that you are interested when you aren't. I hate getting my hopes up for nothing and being pulled on a string.

[Natsu21]

I'm gonna be direct and say my approach, since my topics tend to get off the subject. First things first, I will admit that I've always been socially awkward, I always deplored the unwritten social rules because being mildly autistic, it takes me forever to read social cues and figure them out.

 

With that being said, my experience with girls, female friends, and my own ex(s), If a girl has a clear interest in a guy, there is no doubt. They will pursue a guy. It's hard for guys to accept this, because it means more than often, they'll be rejected, and some guys honestly can not take no for an answer. For instance...

 

"Hi random girl, I had these tickets to the Lakers game, I was thinking that you and I can go together?"(it's pretty much assumed that I'm asking her on a date)

"Sorry, Natsu, I'm gonna be pretty busy this weekend."(after that she says nothing else. I'm disappointed, but I got the picture.)

"Gotcha. See ya."(The gotcha part was my way of letting her know that I clearly got the message, afterwards I drop out of her life like I never existed

)

 

Now I could have let my pride get in the way and then ask question after question, but it would have done nothing for me but leave me stinging and probably killed future opportunities.

 

Truth be told, just randomly asking girls out doesn't seem to work if you're too emotionally invested, so I would propose a better solution to reducing your chances at being rejected.

 

Be their friends. (A million voices are looking at you like you just proposed that aliens are coming to probe us, with guys in white coats coming to take me away)

 

WAIT!!!! Hear me out...I promise I'm not insane. I think.

 

Anyway, you need to actual get to know a woman, and put the intent of getting to know her romantically on the backburner. Come on guys, you've been cheated on before, right? Who are the guys that women usually cheat with the most?

 

Their guy friends. Men who probably took the time to get to know them, and presumably didn't bombard or pressure them with dating, at least until they were aware of the problems in your relationship. They got to know these women inside and out in a calm but strong manner. When you and her were having problems, that's when they move in and systematically destroy your image by upping theirs. Being an ear to a woman is great...when you're not putting them on a pedestal.

 

Women tend to enjoy men who they feel truly comfortable with. Since it's an apparent failure to men for a woman to reject them, males have forgotten how to enjoy female company, and come up with a highly varied set of rules to attracting women...which do not work since we are all different people. What works for you may not work for the next person.

 

"But Natsu, won't that land me in the friendzone?" I just heard a guy ask.

 

Fear not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It all depends on whether or not you mind being their friend. Note, being their friends,mean being being friendly for the SAKE of being their friend. You can find a woman attractive and not be so against hanging out with her, and getting to know her. Just don't be her yes man. Have your own life outside of it. By watching her, you learn what she likes, what she doesn't, and you can better gauge whether or not you have a chance at going out with this girl. It saves you a lot of guesswork, and you might have a great friend in the process. Also, this way you can enjoy the moment, which is what dating is about, not trying to LOCK a relationship.

 

All of my fulfilling relationships started out as friendships. Every single one of them happened after 6 months or more of being friends with these women.

 

Remember guys, if a woman says you're a friend, that could mean she isn't interested, but it doesn't mean it'll stay that way. But if she's not beating down your door with clear signals, do not actively pursue a relationship with her, just get to know her.

 

And if it's too hard for you to get to know her, don't be around her. Most women aren't going to want to jump into bed with you if you're average unless they've known you for a while.

 

Do not lie and say that your intentions with them are purely platonic. Always be friendly and understanding, but stand your ground and send signals that you find them attractive without being too pushy. Like me, I am flirting with a few women who I've already ruled out want to date me, which is why it makes it fun. I'm not expecting ANYTHING...and they flirt right back. It keeps up some tension and you can build on it. If she rejects it outright, move on to the next person.

 

The trick is to be a friend, but still be a man, not their girlfriend.

 

Do what makes you comfortable, and the compatible women will respond positively.

 

People play too many games and it gets exhausting. Having friends isn't bad unless you don't think they'd make good friends. No one said you had to be buddies, but you can have female company without turning into a wimp.

 

You might find you can enjoy life that way. But I totally thread-jacked, so I apologize if this gets removed.

[somedude81]

No, I understand about being their friend, and not becoming their girlfriend.

 

There's a fine line to walk.

 

And hopefully if you are a girls friend, she would feel more comfortable in telling you she only likes you as a friend?

[GemmaUK]

And hopefully if you are a girls friend, she would feel more comfortable in telling you she only likes you as a friend?

 

No, not at all.

 

It can be hugely awkward especially when you have and have had no idea at all that he was thinking of you in that way.

 

SD, you are so impatient! You are getting right to the 'virtual' end game again rather than slow down and see how things go.

 

Re-read Natsu's post.

He said that all of his relationships came from having been friends with a girl for 6 months prior to anything happening.

He may well have liked the look of a girl, got to know her and then been aware that he didn't want to date her after getting to know her. Also going from his post he found that some girls he would just never be with - but that is OK.

 

SD you have said before that you're not really prepared to 'make friends' with either males or females so unfortunately Natsu's post isn't going to help unless you first of all want to and will put the effort into expanding your social circle.

 

For the record - I actually like when I get the chance to know a guy in the ways Natsu is saying, however if it feels glaringly obvious that he is only being friends on an agenda to date me then it turns me off. Why? Because it's just obvious from his actions and body language and it smells desperate.

I suspect that whilst Natsu was making friends with women he saw potential in that he was also making a wider circle of friends at the same time so as not to focus in on those he saw potential in way too soon.

 

He sat back, enjoyed himself, had a laugh with some new friends whilst 'chewing a blade of grass and thinking about it all before making any kind of moves.

 

Natsu - I apologise if I have this all wrong - do correct me if I do.

[heartshaped]

"somedude,

 

I'm sorry, but I can't go out with you Saturday. My psychic told me I would be abducted by aliens on that day. I would love to offer an alternative day, but I have no idea how long the aliens will keep me. Again, I'm so sorry. Maybe I can text you from space.

 

-heartshaped."

 

It doesn't matter what excuse is offered in place of mine. It's just as ridiculous and farfetched. If there is no counteroffer or date made, it is an excuse, trust me.

 

In my case though, I just like to go for the grand, simple, "No," and leave it at that, walk off, and end conversation. But then again, I've been told I'm a piece of work.

[thefooloftheyear]

Sorry, I hope I didn't offend.

 

I think its just a personal issue for me. I don't like disappointing people. Guys I've rejected got the hint so I can't say I've had these problems. Also, TFY suggested that women give excuses so they can continue stringing someone along to get attention? Wow, that is so not true. It doesn't make you feel validated- it just makes you feel uncomfortable.

 

I think that bottom line, if a girl doesn't give you a yes, its a no. Usually if a girl likes you, she'll make herself available, she'll do a followup if you suggest a day when she's busy, she'll be proactive about getting a date with you. If you don't see those signs, if a girl just seems very passive and offers excuses, assume she isn't interested and move on. Because she usually is not.

 

 

Wow...So then please explain to the entire population why some girls/women knowingly keep guys around that they would NEVER date-even though they know full well that is the guys intention? Do they just love to feel "uncomfortable" ?? I dont know anyone(man or woman) who enjoys feeling uncomfortable, so i have no clue where on earth you could come up with such a claim..

 

I have a friend of mine going through this right now..,,She doesnt want him, but he sends her cards and flowers and tells her how wonderful she is, so she keeps him at arms length and even occasionally throws him a bone by sleeping with him...She never calls him and never makes plans with him...even flat out told him that he isnt right for her..

 

Its either they get off on the attention or they are so naive they dont know better..If they are truly afraid of the guy going off on them, then they need to tell a brother or a male friend to tell the guy to get lost-or get an order of protection....But the reality is I think the percentage of guys that would go postal by being rejected is infinitely small....

 

TFY

[somedude81]

I have a friend of mine going through this right now..,,She doesnt want him, but he sends her cards and flowers and tells her how wonderful she is, so she keeps him at arms length and even occasionally throws him a bone by sleeping with him...She never calls him and never makes plans with him...even flat out told him that he isnt right for her..

 

Huh?!

 

How is that keeping him at arms length?!

[carhill]

Huh?!

 

How is that keeping him at arms length?!

We call that, using BBQ vernacular, a 'taster'. Something that fell off the bone so can't be served but a bit of titillation for the zombies circling the BBQ pit.

 

An attention hoover may resort to sexual fluffing, diddling, foreplay and even occasional sex to keep the spigot open but they're decidedly circumspect. As one expert from my past life opined, 'I use sex to get men to like me'. Truer words were never spoken, by her anyway. Note she mentioned nothing about liking or being interested in the men. That's how it goes sometimes. Our job as men is to catch it before being hoovered.

[somedude81]

We call that, using BBQ vernacular, a 'taster'. Something that fell off the bone so can't be served but a bit of titillation for the zombies circling the BBQ pit.

 

An attention hoover may resort to sexual fluffing, diddling, foreplay and even occasional sex to keep the spigot open but they're decidedly circumspect. As one expert from my past life opined, 'I use sex to get men to like me'. Truer words were never spoken, by her anyway. Note she mentioned nothing about liking or being interested in the men. That's how it goes sometimes. Our job as men is to catch it before being hoovered.

 

I understand using flirting and possibly making out to keep a guy around that she's not interested in, but actually having sex seems way too far to be playing a game.

 

If a woman told me that she wasn't interested in me, and had sex with me, that would just boggle my mind.