I wish women would just tell the truth when they are not interested.

[serial muse]

And a refusal to see things any differently.

Already posted - Women graduates wait until they hit 35 before having their first child | Daily Mail Online

- the better educatad the women the more likely she is to delay having a child till her thirties.

The college babes SD covets now at 20- 24, will be waiting 10 years to even think of starting to have children, so where does that leave him?

 

Still not wanting a kid anyway, so I'm not sure why it matters to him.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Bottom line SD is that it really honestly is unlikely that you are going to find yourself in a happy longterm relationship (I mean happy for both of you) with a young 20's girl but it is def possible! The odds are tremendously bad. They really are believe it! Do you choose to spend the 2nd half of your 30's hoping and wishing and struggling for that or opening your horizons, that is up to you!

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I honestly can't imagine a woman ever saying yes to that.

 

That's also something that would never happen with me.

 

I'm sorry but, in a world where what feels like the majority of guys basically seem to dance around the subject, it's actually nice to be asked out in such a straightforward way. I don't see what you have to lose? You either get rejected now or waste your time lurking around the shadows of some woman's life for a few months, getting your hopes up only to then be rejected later. At this point why would being anything but blunt seem like the better option? All it does is lead you to create false hope for yourself.

[Rejected Rosebud]

At this point why would being anything but blunt seem like the better option? All it does is lead you to create false hope for yourself.

False hope feels more comfortable than outright harsh rejection, and it helps a person remain in a nice fantasy for a long time! but just rip the bandaid off I say!

[xxoo]

False hope feels more comfortable than outright harsh rejection, and it helps a person remain in a nice fantasy for a long time! but just rip the bandaid off I say!

 

 

Yes, and it is unfair to later blame the woman for being vague or leading on if direct communication was avoided in favor of enjoying false hope.

[elaine567]

I'm sorry but, in a world where what feels like the majority of guys basically seem to dance around the subject, it's actually nice to be asked out in such a straightforward way. I don't see what you have to lose? You either get rejected now or waste your time lurking around the shadows of some woman's life for a few months, getting your hopes up only to then be rejected later. At this point why would being anything but blunt seem like the better option? All it does is lead you to create false hope for yourself.

 

True, and a lot of uncertainty going on in the girl too.

Even if she was interested initially, 3 months later and still just texting and no concrete offer of a date, she is going to have to move on, or put him down as a no hoper. People want to be wanted, they want chemistry, certainty and confidence.

Hesitancy, dilly dallying, no decision making and no outright expression of interest in dating for months, then finally asking for a date, could be seen as, "There is no-one else on the scene just now, you appear to be female, I suppose I could just go out with you."

[BlueIris]

I honestly can't imagine a woman ever saying yes to that.

 

Well, then don't complain if women (who you complain about A LOT and also claim to not understand) don't do what you won't do.

 

I agree with Lernaean_Hydra. And why not try? So you can continue to complain instead?

 

You have very rigid and narrow beliefs about what women are like and what they think, feel and will do. You reject so many options and so much advice because of what you believe, but since things aren't working out for you, I don't see why you don't/won't try. It's kind of hard to sympathize when you say "no" to alternatives to your own thinking.

Edited January 12, 2015 by BlueIris

[Imajerk17]

SD81, I think you want Busy Girl either to (a) agree to go on a date with you, or (b) tell you to get lost or at least ignore you completely. I'm getting that it isn't OK with you that Busy Girl finds you likeable enough to see you in a group and maybe exchange Facebook or text messages but isn't interested enough to hang out with you one-on-one knowing you want more.

 

That's fine, but if that is the case, then you need to ask Busy Girl on a date and/or tell her that you simply can't be just her friend because you want more. You're the one whose needs aren't being met in this case, and can't expect her to read your mind.

 

FWIW, I have called women out many times for not being straight with a guy they were seeing when being straight and direct was called for. But in this specific case, I don't think Busy Girl is doing anything wrong--especially because she already told you more than once that she wasn't interested.

 

See, this is what happens many times, especially with girls in their early 20s: Guy meets Girl and is attracted to her; Girl suspects that Guy is interested but isn't attracted back; Guy sees that Girl likes him as a friend and is willing to be his friend (on some level) but isn't attracted; Guy says that's cool and the two of them just settle into being friends. See, Guy eventually ends up friend-zoning Girl just as she did him as he goes out and meets other women. It usually ends up being fun for both. That is probably the program Busy Girl is running with you.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Imajerk17

[normal person]

That's why there are much easier ways to say it.

 

"somedude, you're a sweet guy but you aren't what I'm looking for right now. Sorry "

 

 

That's an easier way for you to hear it but not for them to say it. If this happened, you'd be happy to get your clarity but they'd feel much worse because it would make them seem uncaring and feel heartless. The fact of the matter is that when she say avoids saying this, she's still trying to protect her own conscience as much as your heart.

 

Liken yourself to a lost dog that keeps following her around. She feels bad ignoring you or not feeding you, but she doesn't want to keep you. She's waiting for any excuse to find your owner or get you away from her.

 

Replying to texts/messages and inviting him to do stuff with you and other people makes things really confusing for the guy.

 

The reason I brought back this thread was because that girl responded to a message I sent almost a week ago. She had absolutley no reason to respond to me and I have no idea why she did. Surely she must know that responding to me is just encouraging me to keep messaging her.

 

You shouldn't be confused. She's trying to let you down without actually saying she doesn't like you, because, as I explained above, from her perspective that'd make you both feel bad (for different reasons).

 

 

Surely she must know that responding to me is just encouraging me to keep messaging her.

 

No, because she doesn't assume you're as clueless as you actually are. She hasn't seen these threads and shook her head with us at how painfully persistent you are in the face of rejection, where any other guy would've just cut his losses. Most people would take the hint that she's just trying to be nice by not saying it outright. In her mind, responding but not addressing is way more rude than not saying anything. Please do both of you a favor and just stop texting her. Every time you do it she'll be wondering "Why doesn't he just take the hint? How clueless is this guy?"

 

Going back to the crux of the Busy Girl thread, if she wants to hang out with you, she will. If she makes excuses, she's just trying to let you down easy and not seem heartless. Best of luck, SD. I'm proud of you for learning something after all this.

[verhrzn]

True, and a lot of uncertainty going on in the girl too.

Even if she was interested initially, 3 months later and still just texting and no concrete offer of a date, she is going to have to move on, or put him down as a no hoper. People want to be wanted, they want chemistry, certainty and confidence.

Hesitancy, dilly dallying, no decision making and no outright expression of interest in dating for months, then finally asking for a date, could be seen as, "There is no-one else on the scene just now, you appear to be female, I suppose I could just go out with you."

 

Amen. That's what happened with a guy friend of mine (posted about it a long while ago.) I was as straight forward as possible that I wanted to date, and he was hemming and hawing and going "Ehhhhh, you're my maybe girlfriend?" after several months of sleeping with me. I finally moved on, he hasn't had a whole lot of luck dating recently, and then all of a sudden the story from his side is that he totally wanted to date me and was somehow unaware of how wishy-washy he was.

 

Mmm hmm. Sure. I'm absolutely positive the change of heart isn't the result of desperation. Even were I to become single again, I'd never consider dating him, because I'd never be able to shake that his feelings were born from desperation/"settling", not actual desire.

 

Straight forward asking out: You desire me!

Hemming and hawing: You are either not that interested, desperate, or don't believe in uncomfortable communication, none of which suggests good relationship potential

[somedude81]

SD81, I think you want Busy Girl either to (a) agree to go on a date with you, or (b) tell you to get lost or at least ignore you completely. I'm getting that it isn't OK with you that Busy Girl finds you likeable enough to see you in a group and maybe exchange Facebook or text messages but isn't interested enough to hang out with you one-on-one knowing you want more.

 

That's fine, but if that is the case, then you need to ask Busy Girl on a date and/or tell her that you simply can't be just her friend because you want more. You're the one whose needs aren't being met in this case, and can't expect her to read your mind.

 

Honestly, at this point I would be fine with just being friends with her for now.

 

Now that I'm done with college (keeping my fingers crossed) that means no more dance classes. I really enjoyed the regular dance classes, making friends and seeing the same people. Now if I want to keep dancing I have to go to those dance places where I will most likely never see the same girl twice.

 

What I really want is a girl I can go dancing with on a regular basis. I don't care if she's my girlfriend, but it would be a nice bonus.

 

Also I miss having female friends and being around them, which was a primary reason why I took those classes.

[somedude81]

 

True, and a lot of uncertainty going on in the girl too.

Even if she was interested initially, 3 months later and still just texting and no concrete offer of a date, she is going to have to move on, or put him down as a no hoper. People want to be wanted, they want chemistry, certainty and confidence.

Hesitancy, dilly dallying, no decision making and no outright expression of interest in dating for months, then finally asking for a date, could be seen as, "There is no-one else on the scene just now, you appear to be female, I suppose I could just go out with you."

 

 

Amen. That's what happened with a guy friend of mine (posted about it a long while ago.) I was as straight forward as possible that I wanted to date, and he was hemming and hawing and going "Ehhhhh, you're my maybe girlfriend?" after several months of sleeping with me. I finally moved on, he hasn't had a whole lot of luck dating recently, and then all of a sudden the story from his side is that he totally wanted to date me and was somehow unaware of how wishy-washy he was.

 

Mmm hmm. Sure. I'm absolutely positive the change of heart isn't the result of desperation. Even were I to become single again, I'd never consider dating him, because I'd never be able to shake that his feelings were born from desperation/"settling", not actual desire.

 

Straight forward asking out: You desire me!

Hemming and hawing: You are either not that interested, desperate, or don't believe in uncomfortable communication, none of which suggests good relationship potential

 

Yeah sure, you ladies are right.

 

Though this girl clearly knows I'm interested in her. She's known for months.

 

If anything I think I came on too strong and scared her away.

 

Now I'm more relaxed and not as desperate as I used to be, so I wouldn't mind taking things much slower.

[serial muse]

Yeah sure, you ladies are right.

 

Though this girl clearly knows I'm interested in her. She's known for months.

 

If anything I think I came on too strong and scared her away.

 

Now I'm more relaxed and not as desperate as I used to be, so I wouldn't mind taking things much slower.

 

Oh SD. Your words reveal you here - you're not interested in having her as a friend after all, despite what you said just one post up. And "for now" means that you haven't given up anyway. Seriously?? Why is it that when a woman does tell you the truth, you won't believe her? Isn't that more of an issue than the title of this thread?

 

You really, really, really, really need to forget about dating this girl.

[clia]

 

Now that I'm done with college (keeping my fingers crossed) that means no more dance classes. I really enjoyed the regular dance classes, making friends and seeing the same people. Now if I want to keep dancing I have to go to those dance places where I will most likely never see the same girl twice.

 

What I really want is a girl I can go dancing with on a regular basis. I don't care if she's my girlfriend, but it would be a nice bonus.

 

Also I miss having female friends and being around them, which was a primary reason why I took those classes.

 

Why can't you continue to take dance classes? I'm sure there are dance studios that offer classes/lessons in your area.

[Rejected Rosebud]

If anything I think I came on too strong and scared her away.

What probably happened is that you expressed your interest in her and she let you know that she did not reciprocate!!!

 

Now I'm more relaxed and not as desperate as I used to be, so I wouldn't mind taking things much slower.

Please please please leave that whole thing alone. Didn't you already proclaim you were gonna do that earlier in this very thread? :mad: Don't make this girl have to block you on her phone and run away if she sees you, pleas don't.

[somedude81]

I'm sorry but, in a world where what feels like the majority of guys basically seem to dance around the subject, it's actually nice to be asked out in such a straightforward way. I don't see what you have to lose? You either get rejected now or waste your time lurking around the shadows of some woman's life for a few months, getting your hopes up only to then be rejected later. At this point why would being anything but blunt seem like the better option? All it does is lead you to create false hope for yourself.

 

False hope feels more comfortable than outright harsh rejection, and it helps a person remain in a nice fantasy for a long time!

 

That's pretty much it.

 

I like having false hope.

 

Living without false hope, means that I'm living with no hope at all. I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds massively depressing to me.

 

Having some sense of hope lets me keep driving forward and not giving up. Having hope that my math grade could be changed when it pretty much seemed impossible led me to putting in the effort and getting my situation out there so something could actually happen. If I didn't have "false hope" I would have accepted my grade and be looking at taking calculus again at a JC in two weeks.

 

So yes, I know that I have a very small insignificant chance that busy girl would let me spend time with her, but that small amount of false hope is enough to keep me going until my life situation gets more cleared up and I can put in serious effort into meeting women. And guys, it would be nice if all of you weren't trying your hardest to squash the tiny amount of hope I have.

[xxoo]

That's pretty much it.

 

I like having false hope.

 

Living without false hope, means that I'm living with no hope at all. I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds massively depressing to me.

 

Having some sense of hope lets me keep driving forward and not giving up. Having hope that my math grade could be changed when it pretty much seemed impossible led me to putting in the effort and getting my situation out there so something could actually happen. If I didn't have "false hope" I would have accepted my grade and be looking at taking calculus again at a JC in two weeks.

 

So yes, I know that I have a very small insignificant chance that busy girl would let me spend time with her, but that small amount of false hope is enough to keep me going until my life situation gets more cleared up and I can put in serious effort into meeting women. And guys, it would be nice if all of you weren't trying your hardest to squash the tiny amount of hope I have.

 

The subject of this thread was women not being clear enough about rejection.

 

Do you feel differently now?

[Darren2013]

Unfortunately some guys don't take no for an answer. They let their ego keep them in denial that the woman is not interested in them even if she directly tells him no. That's one of the reasons many women will let the guy down gently and soft peddle the rejection.

 

The thing is guys should be able to take the hint when a woman is not interested. She shouldn't have to tell him directly that she is not interested. Why? Because when women are interested they do their best to help a man know that.

[Anela]

That's pretty much it.

 

I like having false hope.

 

Living without false hope, means that I'm living with no hope at all. I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds massively depressing to me.

 

I'm feeling depressed, too - and ill - but living with false hope really does mean that you're helping to contribute to your own unhappiness.

 

You have a friends with benefits - a few months ago, did you think that you would even have that? You said that you're more relaxed now, so use that in your favour, or you'll only drag yourself down again - at least with this girl.

[elaine567]

Every one needs hope, but hope needs to be realistic.

Your grade change wasn't false hope, it would have been false had you been told time and time again by those in charge of grading, that it wasn't ever going to happen though.

 

Hope can be good but it can waste a lot of time and effort too, time wasted chasing futile dreams.

[somedude81]

The subject of this thread was women not being clear enough about rejection.

 

Do you feel differently now?

 

When I first made this thread I was feeling that I was getting mixed signals from women. I couldn't tell at all if a girl was interested in me or not. There were several girls I was trying to pursue. I wanted girls to be clear about their lack of interest so I could quickly move on.

 

Now I'm not trying to pursue several women at once nor do I even know when I'm going to actually try to meet women. I'm just in limbo waiting till my life sorts itself out. But there is one girl I'm still talking to from last year that I've liked for a long time.

 

I wish I had some hope with her. I don't care about anybody else, if they told me that they weren't interested in me right away. I know things aren't going to work out with BG and I'll probably never see her again. But I still wish there was some how I could.

[serial muse]

When I first made this thread I was feeling that I was getting mixed signals from women. I couldn't tell at all if a girl was interested in me or not. There were several girls I was trying to pursue. I wanted girls to be clear about their lack of interest so I could quickly move on.

 

Now I'm not trying to pursue several women at once nor do I even know when I'm going to actually try to meet women. I'm just in limbo waiting till my life sorts itself out. But there is one girl I'm still talking to from last year that I've liked for a long time.

 

I wish I had some hope with her. I don't care about anybody else, if they told me that they weren't interested in me right away. I know things aren't going to work out with BG and I'll probably never see her again. But I still wish there was some how I could.

 

Yes, but you say things like "I've learned something about women" and "I wish women would xxx" and it's FRUSTRATING because the problem here, at least, is not that women aren't being direct or aren't saying what they mean or that women in general ANYTHING.

 

Can't you own this one? Seriously, man, this is a big life lesson for you. It's not other people's fault that they won't do what you want. Sometimes, you just need to listen. Sometimes, the end result is actually good for you in the long run, even if in the short term it's not what you want to hear.

[Revolver]

The OP is right... I mean we are all adults here, why play games? I can understand when your like 15, but come on now

[SpiralOut]

Most women are raised to "be nice" and this unfortunately makes it hard for us to say no. It used to be hard for me to tell a guy no. I was worried that it would make me a bad person. It took me a long time to realize that sometimes giving a straight-forward "no thanks, not interested" is the nicest thing to do for someone. It removes the ambiguity and leaves them free to pursue someone else. It doesn't make me a bad person at all. In fact, some of the guys I rejected gained respect for me.

 

 

Some women don't learn this lesson. That's too bad for them because it's not fun to go through life feeling like you can't say no.

Edited January 17, 2015 by SpiralOut

[Rejected Rosebud]

Most women are raised to "be nice" and this unfortunately makes it hard for us to say no..

That is very true but there is also normal social behavior, like etiquette, and that does not teach us that we are required to be like a military guy in order to turn down a date! We can say "no thank you," still be nice to the guy, and that does not mean we did something wrong! Maybe the guy needs to learn regular social stuff!