Here goes

[vla1120]

I feel like you need to set a time limit on a change in her behavior. Personally, I don't think you are going to see any change in her behavior at all since she's shown no indication that she is even trying. I think, instead, she is just appeasing you verbally, stringing you along. The longer you let her, the longer it will go on, and the more of yourself you will lose in the process.

 

I just have to say something to you and every other man I've seen out here who gave it their everything - there aren't many men like you guys out there, honestly, and it KILLS me to see a good man wasted on a woman like some of the women you guys have been with. Don't worry, this isn't a come-on. I'm old enough to be a mother to most, if not all, of you. I just think there's a woman out there who would REALLY appreciate you and wouldn't treat you like a doormat. (On the other hand, maybe there aren't that many decent women out there, either. I don't know.)

[2sunny]

I feel like you need to set a time limit on a change in her behavior. Personally, I don't think you are going to see any change in her behavior at all since she's shown no indication that she is even trying. I think, instead, she is just appeasing you verbally, stringing you along. The longer you let her, the longer it will go on, and the more of yourself you will lose in the process.

 

I just have to say something to you and every other man I've seen out here who gave it their everything - there aren't many men like you guys out there, honestly, and it KILLS me to see a good man wasted on a woman like some of the women you guys have been with. Don't worry, this isn't a come-on. I'm old enough to be a mother to most, if not all, of you. I just think there's a woman out there who would REALLY appreciate you and wouldn't treat you like a doormat. (On the other hand, maybe there aren't that many decent women out there, either. I don't know.)

 

Yes, there are decent women out there- I'll raise my hand - never cheated. I have lots of friends who would never consider cheating.

 

Some people are grounded - and have morals and standards that they live by.

 

If your wife isn't handing you YOUR peace if mind on a silver platter - she may as well be still cheating!

 

Why the BS need to stay for so little is beyond me. There is happiness after divorce folks!!!

[RightThere]

Up and down. Up and down.

 

So after work I told her how hurt I was that she didn't make time to at least call me. She had been tied up, but I told her I didn't know if that made it better or worse. It's unfortunate because this was a very important day for her and it went really well.

 

This morning we actually talked more about it. She said she admittedly isn't 100% committed. She is still partially checked out and feels that is why she hasn't felt enough guilt for all these things that have happened (even the affair). Very hard for me to hear, but honesty through this process is important.

 

I told her I am still 100% committed and that I would take whatever her level of commitment is today. I know that it means I'm carrying more of the burden on this. But I said we would work on this for the three months, and I want to see it through.

 

I also told her this morning I didn't want her to go on this girl's weekend trip. She agreed. So I'm going to be planning some replacement activities of us as a family and us as a couple.

[RightThere]

He doesn't want to be alone.

 

I know I answered this before, but last night my wife asked me if I was afraid to be alone. I told her "no" but It made me do a bit more soul searching on it.

 

Maybe I am a bit. Despite everything, being with my wife has helped me to grow and become better in many ways. Maybe I'm afraid to lose that.

 

But I won't pretend that I'm a definitive "I"m not afraid to be alone" type person. Frankly I'm afraid to lose what I have and I'm a little afraid of being alone.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I know reading your posts is painful for me.

 

I am sorry that your wife is not in it to win it. And unfortunately, this is what it sounded like in your retelling.

 

You are committed to the three months. But I do believe she is just giving lip service.

 

So to give this the best shot. You have to start to have boundaries with her. Trip, running club, friends, no going out etc, whatever you all agree to in MC.

 

You also need to start exploring and addressing your own self esteem issues or whatever is causing you to accept this from her.

 

Hopefully you all meet at the end, but if not you will be ok.

 

Please remember you cannot nice her back. She may need to lose you to feel the pain that reminds her she wants you.

 

You have to allow her to atone for her choices. Do not make it all better for her.

 

Good luck.

[RightThere]

You also need to start exploring and addressing your own self esteem issues or whatever is causing you to accept this from her.

 

I'll admit that I'm just afraid to do things to push her away. I know that the fight is not in her today, so I feel like I'm the fail safe for everything. If I decide that the marriage is over, then it is definitely over. If I decide that I'm going to fight for our marriage, then it will continue on as I fight.

 

Why do I accept it? Because I am still in love with her. I hope that by making sacrifices, it will lead to better things in the future. But I know that I may just be enabling bad behavior. And maybe I need to hit rock bottom before I make any serious change.

 

For those that are struggling to read this on a daily basis, this is not a story that is going to be told well or end well, regardless. I'm sorry and I'm not. I know what it is that I want. I'm working on getting there, but I and struggling with the journey.

[2sunny]

It looks like ---> you are trying SO hard - and she's NOT.

 

You just moved your boundary again - FOR HER... And to accommodate her lack of effort.

 

Then you reward her lack of effort by planning more activities together when she's not "all in".

 

You are going about this backwards.

 

She's had no consequences. Yet you keep making MORE effort to fix what she's damaged.

 

Backwards!!!!!!

 

I don't think we can help you when you don't help yourself.

 

The one who cares the least holds the power = that is her - and you are willing to bend and stoop to HER lower level of fixing the marriage = which looks like no fixing at all.

 

I hope YOU change. Because SHE'S not changing at all.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Grasshopper.

 

I look for your updates, daily, because darn it...I am going to try to help you get through this, even though you are doing it completely wrong.

 

So keep posting, and taking our nagging with the grace you have been, and ask for help.

 

And we will keep responding

 

Even though I want to give you a virtual bop in the head.

 

Good luck.

[2sunny]

It looks like you are doing 200% and she's doing 10%.

 

That's not right - remember she cheated.

[GorillaTheater]

I'll admit that I'm just afraid to do things to push her away.

 

Fear is your biggest enemy, not only in this particular situation but generally.

 

A lot of the advice you're getting is counter-intuitive, but it's what works, both to get you on an even keel and to give your relationship the best chance it may have.

[vla1120]

Okay. I'll honor the fact that you vowed to give it three months. How far into that three months are you? I just want to know because, while I would love to think this is going to work out in your favor (and I truly applaud your devoted efforts), and I respect the fact that you are willing to give your wife three months to straighten out her act, so far she has shown NO change in behavior that would convince me.

 

That being said, you really should be insisting on an alteration in her behavior right now, not just at the end of three months. Her bowing out of a girl's weekend where she was clearly going to consort with one of her guys is not actually a huge concession, in my opinion. It was a decision that she was sly enough to know she had to make to save face.

 

Keep it coming, RightThere. Just also make sure you take some time out to do something for yourself. Start to care for yourself and your needs. Let her SEE that you are able to put yourself first.

Edited August 27, 2013 by vla1120

[RightThere]

How far into that three months are you?

 

Not quite a month in since she said she wanted to separate. Not quite a week since I found out the whole truth about what was going on with the affairs.

 

Her bowing out of a girl's weekend where she was clearly going to consort with one of her guys is not actually a huge concession, in my opinion. It was a decision that she was sly enough to know she had to make to save face.

 

There were two different weekends I've mentioned. One was happening this past weekend. I didn't know about the affair until mid-last week. I also never knew her other man was going to be going along until she came clean with the affairs. She didn't go on the trip.

 

She also has another weekend upcoming in a couple weeks. Girls only. This one I also told her I didn't want her to go on. She agreed.

 

I'm not disagreeing with anyone that I'm not getting enough back from her right now. But I am taking what I can get in the sense that they are some positive movements.

 

But I do expect more.

[2sunny]

When actions don't provide the desired results - its useful to try contrary action to get a different result.

 

What would contrary action from you look like?

[RightThere]

When actions don't provide the desired results - its useful to try contrary action to get a different result.

 

What would contrary action from you look like?

 

I do appreciate you dumbing some of this down for the guy who cannot follow simple instruction. Probably the same reason my wife is so frustrated.

 

Contrary action would probably be

- Be a lousy father to our child

- Do not try to fight for our marriage. Seem totally uninterested in it falling apart

- Do no family or couple activities. Although I was fairly lousy at these in the past

- Be selfish. Care little about what has gone on in the day of my wife

 

Even as I write these, I think "Yeah, some of these I was actually doing before the separation talks started anyways." Outside of being a lousy father. Being good parents is something that is important to both my wife and I.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Of course continue to be a good father...that should remain a priority.

 

I think what you are saying is that the demise of your relationship was due to absence of investment?

 

You believe that the right think to do is give significant investment to "make up" for the lack of investment? (Birthdays, anniversary, romance, etc?)

 

Only thing is...she's been having affairs..for a long time...it is the more immediate issue to resolve.

 

Maybe not to her, maybe she has decided that she had affairs because of those things above, but is that rewriting history? She started very early in your relationship if I recall?

 

So..what people are saying is, sometimes you win the war by losing the fight.

 

If you give up, tell her you can't do it alone, without her being 100% in, you are devastated by her affairs, and that the best thing to do is divorce, use MC to help you become good co-parents.

 

Let her experience losing you.

 

This works more often than niceing someone back (which rarely works)

 

But I get what you are saying.

[RightThere]

Of course continue to be a good father...that should remain a priority.

 

Will happen regardless. I wrote it, but have no intention of neglecting our child.

 

I think what you are saying is that the demise of your relationship was due to absence of investment?

 

You believe that the right think to do is give significant investment to "make up" for the lack of investment? (Birthdays, anniversary, romance, etc?)

 

Exactly what I see going on.

 

Maybe not to her, maybe she has decided that she had affairs because of those things above, but is that rewriting history? She started very early in your relationship if I recall?

 

After we were exclusive (probably 3 months in) the first affair started after about 2 years. It was a couple months, then she broke it off.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by rewriting history?

 

Let her experience losing you.

 

Funny thing is, when we talked about separating, she had the assumption that we would still remain friends, she could talk to me about big life changing things, look for advice. All this in addition to the normal contact of raising our child.

 

I told her that because I was in love with her, I would have to limit all our contact to our child and nothing else because I would need to find a way to move on in my life from her. That really scared her which I think is partially why she is somewhat committed to repairing the relationship.

 

So experiencing losing me may help. But it may not. I know that is the chicken answer.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I'm not sure what you mean by rewriting history?

 

This is how when you look back, you play just the negative or positives and expound upon those. For example...someone in an affair often says "I have been unhappy for years" which even if it can be refuted by evidence, remains the excuse a WS needs to have to justify their actions. This happens all the time for various reasons, my personal opinion is that it often is a way of coping.

 

 

 

Funny thing is, when we talked about separating, she had the assumption that we would still remain friends, she could talk to me about big life changing things, look for advice. All this in addition to the normal contact of raising our child.

 

I told her that because I was in love with her, I would have to limit all our contact to our child and nothing else because I would need to find a way to move on in my life from her. That really scared her which I think is partially why she is somewhat committed to repairing the relationship.

 

So experiencing losing me may help. But it may not. I know that is the chicken answer.

 

What you experienced there is how she is likely to respond. But since you told her that and she gave a half hearted effort you have been back involved without her being forced to experience life alone.

 

I think your fear is she will like it? Yep could happen, but more likely is she will realize you are not so bad after all and she will come back and be 100% in. The is a whole biological reason why this happens, I will not bore you with.

 

I think what I want you to u deer stand is that you are going at this in the way that is least likely to get you the results you are after.

 

Don't believe me. Do your research.

[2sunny]

People change very little when they are comfortable.

 

She's comfortable - you don't want to see her uncomfortable. So nothing is bound to change unless you get willing to make it uncomfortable for her.

 

So far, you seem to want to make this easier on her - which isn't changing a thing... In fact, it's helping her to disregard you further.

 

When YOU change - it forces a reaction FROM HER.

 

Keep doing things the same and you will get the same result.

 

What you have from her now is:

No trust

No respect

She's not honoring you or the marriage

She's not doing the heavy lifting

She's not completely transparent

Her words and actions don't match

She's not offering the change - she waits for you to suggest it

 

So, essentially she's not participating on a level that shows she's willing to DO everything to rebuild what SHE ruined.

 

 

There's no reason to participate at all until SHE gets on board! And your efforts are wasted at this point because she doesn't respect you.

 

Change everything - THEN she may wake up! When's she's scared and hopeless - she may start changing.

 

Until then - there's not one thing you need to be doing for her - including wasting your breathe with her.

[RightThere]

Don't believe me. Do your research.

 

Hit me with some, or what I should search for. I'm here to gather as much info as I can.

[KathyM]

I haven't read the whole thread, since it's 11 pages long, but just to respond to the OP, don't play games in your marriage, it's not going to help. Doing a 180 will only do further damage to your marriage. You need real help and real work on your marriage if you have any intention to restore it. Seek counseling with a qualified marriage counselor/therapist and discuss your issues in counseling where they can be addressed. Why you would want to continue the relationship after several EAs is beyond me, but if your goal is to restore the marriage, stonewalling and playing games is not the answer.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

With all due respect Kathy, you need to read the thread.

 

RightThere,

 

You cannot get PM and I cannot post external links. But look for a couple articles and check out their bibliography for more.

 

Physiology Today

The Neuroscience of Relationship Breakups

 

Journal of neurophysiology

Reward, Addiction, and Emotion Regulation Systems Associated With Rejection in Love

 

Evolutionary Cognitive Neuroscience

 

There are a bunch of good internal links I think you have.

 

These are geeky but good.

[RightThere]

I'm really not doing well today. Nothing really triggered it, but I can feel myself sinking very deep into depression. Little sleep, little eating. And a very empty feeling inside.

 

I did have some individual counselling set up before, but I cancelled it. I think I'm going to have to reach out again to set something up because the reality of all of this I think is starting to set in.

 

I think it is in part to that fact that I really pondered some of the advice. Saying I can't do it alone, I want to fix it but divorce is probably the best option. But we've been having some very good connection lately.

 

I don't know what stage of the process this is, but I am full on in it.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I'm really not doing well today. Nothing really triggered it, but I can feel myself sinking very deep into depression. Little sleep, little eating. And a very empty feeling inside.

 

I did have some individual counselling set up before, but I cancelled it. I think I'm going to have to reach out again to set something up because the reality of all of this I think is starting to set in.

 

I think it is in part to that fact that I really pondered some of the advice. Saying I can't do it alone, I want to fix it but divorce is probably the best option. But we've been having some very good connection lately.

 

I don't know what stage of the process this is, but I am full on in it.

 

What you are going through is normal. Please reach out to your internist to get some emergency sleeping aid if you aren't sleeping or anti depressants if you need it. Lack of sleep makes everything else worse.

 

You really really need IC, make and keep the appointment.

 

I know you want to fix it, but you can't do it alone...and you don't want to.

 

How can we help?

[RightThere]

All of this is help.

 

I'm just going to keep posting because this is the only real outlet I have. I can't let all this out to friends or family because I really just want to protect our child. I can't right now have our child know what my wife did.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

All of this is help.

 

I'm just going to keep posting because this is the only real outlet I have. I can't let all this out to friends or family because I really just want to protect our child. I can't right now have our child know what my wife did.

 

I understand.

 

Right now, today, you need to take care if your health. Drink water, eat small meals, get some fresh air and exercise.

 

Call the doctors and get your appointments.

 

Your family doctor has seen and heard it all so you need to be honest so they can monitor you for stress illnesses.

 

Keep posting.