Here goes

[RightThere]

Then there is the adverse affect that staying has had on my (mostly grown) children....and believe me. It takes a toll on them, no matter how you try to shield them.

 

This is the part I'm the most concerned about. Looking back on our relationship, I can see the times where she was much more verbally abusive to me when she was also with these other guys. Lots of gaslighting, etc.

 

Our child is 4. What's been done so far is hard to say. She seems happy and well adjusted. But going forward, would I be putting her in further danger if we tried to reconcile? Maybe I take a long time to show any love and affection to my wife. Maybe my wife falls into old habits and starts up with someone else, then the unhappy version of her returns. Is this thing doomed to fail and I'm going to just make things worse for our child?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

This is the part I'm the most concerned about. Looking back on our relationship, I can see the times where she was much more verbally abusive to me when she was also with these other guys. Lots of gaslighting, etc.

 

Our child is 4. What's been done so far is hard to say. She seems happy and well adjusted. But going forward, would I be putting her in further danger if we tried to reconcile? Maybe I take a long time to show any love and affection to my wife. Maybe my wife falls into old habits and starts up with someone else, then the unhappy version of her returns. Is this thing doomed to fail and I'm going to just make things worse for our child?

 

That is something you should think about and discuss with the MC there.

 

Basically, your wife has been cheating your whole relationship...and I know someone asked before, but there is a possibility your child is not biologically yours? I know you thought you have some kind of guarantee of honest answers, but I am not so sure that I would believe her if she said the sky was blue.

 

I do think these things can be recovered from, assuming remorse and tons of work by the WS, but, at least what you say here, I am not feeling that. I am not feeling the understanding of the horrible horrible thing she has done for most of your relationship.

 

I still feel you making more of an effort.

 

Plus, frankly, she's broken...her behavior and your relationship will be the model which becomes your child's FOO issues.

 

Again, no apparent moving heaven and earth to figure out her whys, no major changes in her behavior.

 

Why exactly would you stay again?

[RightThere]

Basically, your wife has been cheating your whole relationship...and I know someone asked before, but there is a possibility your child is not biologically yours? I know you thought you have some kind of guarantee of honest answers, but I am not so sure that I would believe her if she said the sky was blue.

 

For a number of reasons, I believe that the child is mine. Timing-wise, she had not been with the first guy for close to 2 years. And there are way too many traits to believe it could be the other guy. Is it possible? Anything is at this point, but I think the certainty is comparable to % certainty that any blood test will confirm. Plus, i just frankly believe her on this. There are very few things I now believe were true in what she has said an done throughout our relationship, but this I believe.

 

I do think these things can be recovered from, assuming remorse and tons of work by the WS, but, at least what you say here, I am not feeling that. I am not feeling the understanding of the horrible horrible thing she has done for most of your relationship.

 

I agree. Up to this point, there has been minimal effort on her part. And I believe it in part has to do with the fact that she's been keeping this secret. It's been a burden to her (fair or not is irrelevant) and has made it easy to wait for the marriage to fail.

 

Again, no apparent moving heaven and earth to figure out her whys, no major changes in her behavior.

 

I know the whys. Too many personal issues to list here. I'm glad for this forum, but there will probably be a few details I will withhold on that. However I know now that I need to talk to someone about this stuff so I'm going to have to seek out some individual counseling.

 

Why exactly would you stay again?

 

Although I can't find it today, I believe there is still some part of me that wants to put in the effort to make this work. Despite all the bad, she really has made me a better person in countless ways.

 

But yeah. I'm really thin on the why's today.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

For a number of reasons, I believe that the child is mine. Timing-wise, she had not been with the first guy for close to 2 years. And there are way too many traits to believe it could be the other guy. Is it possible? Anything is at this point, but I think the certainty is comparable to % certainty that any blood test will confirm. Plus, i just frankly believe her on this. There are very few things I now believe were true in what she has said an done throughout our relationship, but this I believe.

 

No judgements either way. Support your feelings, opinions, fact or no fact.

 

I agree. Up to this point, there has been minimal effort on her part. And I believe it in part has to do with the fact that she's been keeping this secret. It's been a burden to her (fair or not is irrelevant) and has made it easy to wait for the marriage to fail.

I would actually say that she has made no effort, or lip service at best. Continuing the affair while on a committed three month divorce hold? Her only action was her supposed ending of the affair. But I don't believe you have seen evidence of that?

 

I know the whys. Too many personal issues to list here. I'm glad for this forum, but there will probably be a few details I will withhold on that. However I know now that I need to talk to someone about this stuff so I'm going to have to seek out some individual counseling.

 

Respectfully, it's not you that needs to know her whys....she needs to know and be committed to fixing them.. I have not heard you say anything that resembles desire for or willingness for self awareness.. Or for her to repair the damage. Only her relief at not keeping the secrets. Or at least most of them...I do not believe you have the whole truth...yet.

 

IC would be good for each of you.

 

 

Although I can't find it today, I believe there is still some part of me that wants to put in the effort to make this work. Despite all the bad, she really has made me a better person in countless ways.

 

But yeah. I'm really thin on the why's today.

 

At this point you should only be committed to not ending the marriage...yet. Your MC is going to press you to be all in. I suggest you not promise that, since last time you were the only one keeping promises.

 

I suggest you ask your wife, in MC to compile two lists. One of why you should consider staying with her. And 2. What is she going to do to make your marriage safe for you.

 

When you do marriage counseling....you need to be discussing and dissecting the affair....not anything else. Talk about giving her flowers and other nonsense is not going to repair this. Most marriage counselors who don't specialize in infidelity will ask you to gloss right over the affair and move on...

 

Good luck today.

[RightThere]

I would actually say that she has made no effort, or lip service at best. Continuing the affair while on a committed three month divorce hold? Her only action was her supposed ending of the affair. But I don't believe you have seen evidence of that?

 

Up until when I found out about the affair, I believe she was just going through the motions. I would put out the effort and she would receive it. To be fair, she did put out some effort. After finding out about the affair, she told me she called the second guy and told him it was over. They are part of a running group which she decided not to attend last night. She also told him at that time she wasn't going away this weekend. I only have her words.

 

Respectfully, it's not you that needs to know her whys....she needs to know and be committed to fixing them.. I have not heard you say anything that resembles desire for or willingness for self awareness.. Or for her to repair the damage. Only her relief at not keeping the secrets. Or at least most of them...I do not believe you have the whole truth...yet.

 

Fair enough. As for the whole truth, I know enough. Any more isn't going to create an "A HA" moment for me.

 

I suggest you ask your wife, in MC to compile two lists. One of why you should consider staying with her.

 

It's funny. I did ask her this. She did have some reasons, but her general thought was that she had done so much damage, she couldn't come up with enough good things to counter that.

 

I think my favorite part about this whole experience is that everytime I think things can't get worse, the floor gives out and I fall down another 100 ft.

[2sunny]

I'm glad she's getting honest...

 

What is her reason that you need to stay - given that she has cheated so much? What is going to keep her from cheating again in the future?

 

What is her solution? Is that a solution you are willing to work with and move forward?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Oh Grasshopper...you have so much to learn...

 

Up until when I found out about the affair, I believe she was just going through the motions. I would put out the effort and she would receive it. To be fair, she did put out some effort. After finding out about the affair, she told me she called the second guy and told him it was over. They are part of a running group which she decided not to attend last night. She also told him at that time she wasn't going away this weekend. I only have her words.

 

Requirement for putting divorce on hold...proof of ending.

 

Fair enough. As for the whole truth, I know enough. Any more isn't going to create an "A HA" moment for me.

 

It is not about what you know, it is about her readiness to tell you. Trust starts when you are sure she is not hiding anything else. Level of disclosure is up to you.

 

It's funny. I did ask her this. She did have some reasons, but her general thought was that she had done so much damage, she couldn't come up with enough good things to counter that.

 

I see this as more victim mentality. Waaa waaa poor me I am so bad, caused so much destruction I can't do anything to fix it. I can't even think of one single thing? Not even a daily blow job? Come on.

 

I think my favorite part about this whole experience is that everytime I think things can't get worse, the floor gives out and I fall down another 100 ft.

 

Sorry.

[RightThere]

First off, thank you so much to all the contributors and this forum. I feel like this is what I need so badly to get through each day.

 

I'm glad she's getting honest...

 

Yeah. As horrible as this all is, knowing what is really going on has helped me understand and open my eyes more.

 

What is her reason that you need to stay - given that she has cheated so much?

 

It was a lot of the things that I do for her (probably not what it's supposed to be). And that she does love me and wants to build a future together. Even expanding our family was brought up. Prior to the separation talks, we've been trying for about a year to have another child. (And yeah, I already know what everyone is going to say before you say it.)

 

What is going to keep her from cheating again in the future?

 

Us supporting each other. Counselling, and some specific classes that would help improve the things that are lacking (sex). I think in terms of these two guys, she's begun to remove herself from everything associated with them. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be someone new. I know that would be easy for her to find if she so desired.

 

What is her solution? Is that a solution you are willing to work with and move forward?

 

Same as above. Supporting each other, counselling, other things to address the lacking parts of our relationship. Am I willing to work on it? We'll see how today goes.

 

Not sure if I did the right thing today. After our talk last night, we didn't speak again. Slept in the same bed, but I got up early this morning and went to work. Got a few texts from her but I ignored them. Then reading through the infidelity section here, I copy and pasted the "Things a wayward spouse should know." I emailed it to her without and other words. Haven't gotten a response.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Grasshopper....I so want to smack you. Like Cher in Moonstruck. "Snap out of it"

 

 

It was a lot of the things that I do for her (probably not what it's supposed to be). And that she does love me and wants to build a future together. Even expanding our family was brought up. Prior to the separation talks, we've been trying for about a year to have another child. (And yeah, I already know what everyone is going to say before you say it.)

 

For the love of all that is holy do not expand your family unless this is resolved.

 

 

 

 

 

Us supporting each other. Counselling, and some specific classes that would help improve the things that are lacking (sex). I think in terms of these two guys, she's begun to remove herself from everything associated with them. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be someone new. I know that would be easy for her to find if she so desired.

 

Same as above. Supporting each other, counselling, other things to address the lacking parts of our relationship.

 

1. She loses the right to interact with the affair partners or continue with activities that she used as a cover for her affair. She must show proof of ending it, NC letter would be good.

2. STD testing is needed she has been active in an affair. You too.

 

Please listen to this...what was lacking in your relationship has always been that she has been in affairs.

 

She has been in affairs.from.the.beginning.

 

The issue with your marriage is that she is not committed to the marriage, or to you. At least hasn't been so far.

 

The issue with your sex life is that she is getting it elsewhere.

 

The issue with her being afraid, or communication etc. is typical affair justification.

 

None of see things fix the affair, or the person who is having affairs or who is prone to having affairs as a coping mechanism.

 

The issue is that she has self esteem issues and deals with it by getting external validation.

 

Not sure if I did the right thing today. After our talk last night, we didn't speak again. Slept in the same bed, but I got up early this morning and went to work. Got a few texts from her but I ignored them. Then reading through the infidelity section here, I copy and pasted the "Things a wayward spouse should know." I emailed it to her without and other words. Haven't gotten a response

 

I hope I am wrong, I really do. But you are still doing all the heavy lifting. You need to stop, step back and see if she's going to step up.

 

Ignoring her is good.

[RightThere]

For the love of all that is holy do not expand your family unless this is resolved.

 

I already knew you were going to say that. And trust me. I can't even bring myself to touch her today.

 

Grasshopper....I so want to smack you. Like Cher in Moonstruck. "Snap out of it"

 

I know. I know.

 

Trouble is, I know exactly where I am at. Justifying, self-doubting, depressed. I'm just not ready to move on from this stage yet, if that makes any sense.

[RightThere]

None of see things fix the affair, or the person who is having affairs or who is prone to having affairs as a coping mechanism.

 

The issue is that she has self esteem issues and deals with it by getting external validation.

 

It's funny. This I totally agree with.

 

She actually said to me last night that she was basically diagnosed as a sex addict. I didn't respond to it, but I know it to be a crock. Throughout our entire relationship she didn't want sex more than anyone else I'd ever been with. She cheated not because of the act, but for the external validation. These two guys are total losers. And I'm not just saying that for obvious reasons. She could have done much better.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I already knew you were going to say that. And trust me. I can't even bring myself to touch her today.

 

 

 

I know. I know.

 

Trouble is, I know exactly where I am at. Justifying, self-doubting, depressed. I'm just not ready to move on from this stage yet, if that makes any sense.

 

Yes I do.

 

Please please practice these words even though you don't feel it yet?....I promise you will thank me later.

 

To your MC. - at this time, I am only prepared to attend marriage counseling sessions that focus on the damage of the affair. At some future point, assuming we can make progress there, I will be willing to look at pre affair issues.

 

To your wife - I am giving you a small undefined window of time to step it up. You need to put your best effort, A game into fixing yourself so that you are a safe person for me to be married to, and to amend for what you did. You need to take 100% of the initiative in that. You need to do research and work to find out how to help me heal. I want to stay married to you, as long as you can fix yourself, help me heal and participate at least 50% in fixing our relationship. At some point here I will feel strong enough to put in, but right now I am not. I will not accept any blame for your affair. And any further affair will result in me divorcing you immediately, no excuses.

[RightThere]

Yes I do.

 

Please please practice these words even though you don't feel it yet?....I promise you will thank me later.

 

To your MC. - at this time, I am only prepared to attend marriage counseling sessions that focus on the damage of the affair. At some future point, assuming we can make progress there, I will be willing to look at pre affair issues.

 

To your wife - I am giving you a small undefined window of time to step it up. You need to put your best effort, A game into fixing yourself so that you are a safe person for me to be married to, and to amend for what you did. You need to take 100% of the initiative in that. You need to do research and work to find out how to help me heal. I want to stay married to you, as long as you can fix yourself, help me heal and participate at least 50% in fixing our relationship. At some point here I will feel strong enough to put in, but right now I am not. I will not accept any blame for your affair. And any further affair will result in me divorcing you immediately, no excuses.

 

I promise I will consider it.

 

Thanks you for everything.

[Misadventure]

Is, I think those were great statements. Right, am praying for you, buddy. Do what feels right for you..in your heart.

[RightThere]

Do what feels right for you..in your heart.

 

I feel like that is the one that is going to betray me.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I feel like that is the one that is going to betray me.

 

Do not be Mr. Nice man. Grasshopper

 

 

Grrrrrrrrrrr. Roar.

[RightThere]

Got a response from her on my email with the Wayward Spouse info:

 

“Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. “

 

I can get over any affair! It is not about another person. It is not about my feelings and love going to another person. I’m not in love with another person. I’m not in love with anyone.

 

I love you (RightThere) but I am not in love with you anymore. I am too hurt and angry inside. I’m lazy and don’t have the heart to fight, I’m not sure why today at this moment I don’t want to. I have this TV sit-com delusion we could be friends and have another child. Laugh at me again all you want but I’m being honest.

 

I have no regrets Marrying you or having (child's name) with you. I never will and never have.

 

You kept saying taking the easy way out for me... I think this article says it best “spare your marital partner further pain.”

 

I do not want to hurt you anymore.

 

I send this back:

 

It says: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse,

 

That is the reason to spare me any more pain. If it’s one of those reasons, then you are right.

 

This was some advice I saw to bring up today at counselling:

 

I am giving you a window of time to step it up. You need to put your best effort, A game into fixing yourself so that you are a safe person for me to be married to, and to amend for what you did. You need to take 100% of the initiative in that. You need to do research and work to find out how to help me heal. I want to stay married to you, as long as you can fix yourself, help me heal and participate at least 50% in fixing our relationship.

 

Yeah, I softened up the response a bit.

 

One thing that I think came as a surprise to her last night was she assumed we would remain friends. At least someone she could confide in on bigger issues in her life. I told her basically what No Contact implied. I would work with her to raise our child, but beyond that she would get nothing from me. For my own sake.

[2sunny]

I don't understand what your boundary looks like.

 

Do you have a boundary?

 

It seems she KEEPS ON trickle truthing you - and you haven't really expected her to have any consequences.

 

She definitely looks at you as her doormat.

 

I think you're so scared to lose her that you won't/don't state or implement consequences for her.

 

You act like staying with her is a prize - with her past and continued lying through YEARS - she's no prize.

 

She lies - how can you EVER trust her?

 

And her running - that should end now! It's her gateway to her cheating - IF she's not willing to quit forever - there's nothing to consider... She still intends to keep her contacts.

 

Lay down firm boundaries - and NOW. Does she work?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Grasshopper....

 

My advice now changes...based on her response.

 

She does not want to try to make it better.

 

She does not love you.

 

She wants to be "friends".

 

She is "angry" about whatever. I don't really give a shix what this is about (as I say string of curse words)

 

You have only one correct response to this. I am not joking. You are doing this all wrong. ALLLLL WRONG.

 

You need to pack up her stuff and drive it over to affair guys house and drop her and her stuff and wish them well. You keep your child with you.

 

Call your MC and cancel it, no sense talking at all. Let her show up and not have you there.

 

She is absolutely still in the affair, or an affair. Guaranteed.

 

Lawyer up tomorrow and have her served. Go DARK, radio silent.

 

You need a "shock and awe" response, not a coddling nice guy I love you response.

 

She needs to know what it means to not have you taking care of her. She needs to miss YOU. She needs to freak out.

 

You may have already lost her, but you will lose her because she thinks, no she KNOWS, you don't have the courage to divorce her. Prove her wrong.

 

Shock and awe...

[RightThere]

I don't understand what your boundary looks like.

 

Do you have a boundary?

 

It seems she KEEPS ON trickle truthing you - and you haven't really expected her to have any consequences.

 

She definitely looks at you as her doormat.

 

I think you're so scared to lose her that you won't/don't state or implement consequences for her.

 

You act like staying with her is a prize - with her past and continued lying through YEARS - she's no prize.

 

She lies - how can you EVER trust her?

 

And her running - that should end now! It's her gateway to her cheating - IF she's not willing to quit forever - there's nothing to consider... She still intends to keep her contacts.

 

Lay down firm boundaries - and NOW. Does she work?

 

I appreciate all of this, but I know now that today is my D-Day.

 

After counselling today, if I am not getting 100% commitment from her to amend for her affair and a commitment to our marriage, then I will pull the trigger on divorce.

[2sunny]

That's good - because your previous posts seem to allude to you will stay with her if she'll let you; no matter what bad behavior she keeps trickle truthing onto you.

 

For me - if I were you - and she'd been meeting her lovers through a running club - and bedding them - the running would be ended first! And if she was unwilling to end it - then I'd have my answer to whether or not to reconcile!

 

She's either "all in" and willing to do anything to set things right with you - or you have nothing to work with.

 

Her avenues of cheating must be completely eliminated by her - or she proves that she's still gonna do more cheating.

 

From what you typed - she doesn't seem to want to do her part in fixing what she has broken.

 

If/since she's not in love with you - why should YOU make more effort for her to love you? You shouldn't!

 

You shouldn't have to bend and beg your spouse to be in love with you.

 

Her actions showed a long time ago - she doesn't respect you, honor you or love you (as in actions/behavior). She's not honest unless she's forced to reveal her truth. She's hurt you and not trying to comfort you and fix the wrongs she's done to you.

 

So what's the point in begging her to make effort to love and respect you - it's not possible!

Edited August 23, 2013 by 2sunny

[revitup]

RightThere,

 

NO BRAINER........................................

 

 

REVITUP

[revitup]

Brother,I say this with no malice of heart and with all seriousness.

 

There are 3 men and 1 woman in this mess.....

 

Two men and 1 woman are getting laid,

 

One man is paying the bills and doing the hurting, for all four participants.

 

Which one are you?

 

I'm throwing the old Bulls#$t flag on the woman.

 

REVITUP

[Mr. Lucky]

Got a response from her on my email with the Wayward Spouse info:

 

I love you (RightThere) but I am not in love with you anymore. I am too hurt and angry inside. I’m lazy and don’t have the heart to fight, I’m not sure why today at this moment I don’t want to.

For the sake of argument, let's say she really wanted to work with you to fix your marriage.

 

My question for you is, feeling the way she's stated she feels, could she ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

So

 

We had our counselling session last night. She did come clean with the affairs. As for the current other guy, I told her either he's never at the running group, or she isn't. She agreed. She also committed to 100% in repairing the damage done and the relationship.

 

The counselor asked me if I was 100% committed to fixing the relationship as well. I told them I would be.

 

I know that is contrary to most of the advice I've been given. However I feel like this is the real first day of any kind of rebuild. Anything before this was a waste because there was always something else in the background.

 

I'm not naive to anything. There is a lot of work to be done and I could totally get burned again. But I did follow what was in my heart. I know that all of this comes with great risk. Not just for me. And I hope my eyes are opened as to what could be set backs. But I am going to commit to try.

 

I appreciate all of the advice, including everything contrary to what I do.