26pointblue Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hi Wheelwright. If it's not a thread-jack I would like to know a little more about your situation. It sounds like your husband found out you were in an affair & was very angry but wanted you to stay with him? And you did stay with him but you are not happy with him? Did you stay with him for the kids or because you thought you could be happy with him again, or why? I'm just wondering for context's sake & to better understand the big picture. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 No. I don't think she should hold her H accountable. At that time I was not thinking of child support. If he doesn't wish to be with the children, he shouldn't. I said the less than loving parent. I meant the parent who does Not wish to be with the child/children. You wanted to interpret it as the cheater. We are mostly speaking about OP's situation. If I cheated on my spouse, and he wanted to Run from myself And the children, why hold him accountable. So there it is in black and white again. You have some very strange standards DIC regarding the BS responsibility vs the WS to the children. In your view because the BS has not cheated they have the right to damn well do whatever they wanna do, walk away from the kids if they want to seems to be OK with you. I've always known you didn't go with the flow but before this I thought I understood where you were coming from especially regarding your religious stance but this just makes me wanna . Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If a guy doesn't want to continue to be a father to his children, regardless whether it's right or wrong (we all know it's wrong), what kind of father would he be if he was FORCED to be a father? I would think it would be more harmful to a child to have a father under duress than no father figure at all. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You shouldn't hold himself accountable to you. You would have lost your right to do that by cheating on him. But your children have a right to their father that is separate & apart from your right to them. Your husband is their father first and foremost. It is not tied to his relationship with you. He is & always will be their father. If he would chose to severe that tie with his children because of what you did to him, then I think he would be a very bad father indeed. And I think it would be wrong to threaten that no matter how much he was hurting. I can't imagine how someone could even say that about their children. The wife- yeah- abandon her because she abandoned you by cheating. The children- never. They had nothing to do with anything, they were just born to a father and mother like anyone else. And I think the father & mother should both be involved in the child's life no matter what their relationship status or issues. It doesn't matter what we think. Or how responsible we are. You can't make people do things. If a parent is bitter, it will affect the children. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If a guy doesn't want to continue to be a father to his children, regardless whether it's right or wrong (we all know it's wrong), what kind of father would he be if he was FORCED to be a father? I would think it would be more harmful to a child to have a father under duress than no father figure at all. Yes, that's right. He should do as he wishes, certainly shouldn't put his own children's needs first. And he should cheat too, if he likes. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If a guy doesn't want to continue to be a father to his children, regardless whether it's right or wrong (we all know it's wrong), what kind of father would he be if he was FORCED to be a father? I would think it would be more harmful to a child to have a father under duress than no father figure at all. How exactly can you force someone to act like a father? The courts may force child support or face the consequences if they don't pay up, but forcing someone to do the other stuff..........nope not going happen. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 So there it is in black and white again. You have some very strange standards DIC regarding the BS responsibility vs the WS to the children. In your view because the BS has not cheated they have the right to damn well do whatever they wanna do, walk away from the kids if they want to seems to be OK with you. I've always known you didn't go with the flow but before this I thought I understood where you were coming from especially regarding your religious stance but this just makes me wanna . BB: I am responsible for myself, for how I have cared for and raised my children, grandson. Not responsible for a wayward spouse. And the most caring spouse should raise the children. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 How exactly can you force someone to act like a father? The courts may force child support or face the consequences if they don't pay up, but forcing someone to do the other stuff..........nope not going happen. Which I think is what DIC is trying to say. I certainly don't feel she thinks it's okay for a guy to dump his kids. I think she's saying you can't force it and to force it would be worse than not having him in the picture at all. Link to post Share on other sites
26pointblue Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It doesn't matter what we think. Or how responsible we are. You can't make people do things. If a parent is bitter, it will affect the children. I don't understand your posts or your viewpoints at all so I'm just going to give up on trying to do that. [Waving a white flag]. It seems to me like many people in this forum think that cheating or being an OW is the very worst thing a person can ever do & is always villified, while anything at all that the BS does is just fine & justified, including abandoning his own kids. I completely disagree & while there's no use in trying to convince the other that each of us is right, I draw the line at condoning abandoning children. I think we can all see that adults are complex & make mistakes & bad decisions & fall in love when we aren't supposed to etc... but to justify abandoning children for any reason is truly repulsive to me. I'm sure you disagree & that's that. :-) No use trying to understand each other when our views are so obviously different. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 BB: I am responsible for myself, for how I have cared for and raised my children, grandson. Not responsible for a wayward spouse. And the most caring spouse should raise the children. That's all well and good DIC but in your other posts you've indicated that the BS has a right to walk away from the children if that is what they want simply because they have been betrayed. Your above post and the others don't agree. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Which I think is what DIC is trying to say. I certainly don't feel she thinks it's okay for a guy to dump his kids. I think she's saying you can't force it and to force it would be worse than not having him in the picture at all. Well I can understand that sentiment but that is NOT what she has said. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well I can understand that sentiment but that is NOT what she has said.I think DIC sometimes has a roundabout or vague way of trying to state things. Trust me - she and I rarely agree, but I get where she's coming from. You've cheated on your spouse. Your spouse says something as awful as "I'll dump the kids." Do you really want them around then? You can't force anyone to do anything, including being a good parent. Yes, you can force child support if they have an above-the-table job. If the OP is so worried about her kids being taken care of by a caring parent, she should exit the M. She can then be with whomever she chooses, her kids will have - yes, one - loving parent, and she can deal with the courts for child support. Perhaps that's the problem. She thinks he'll be effective at dodging child support. Link to post Share on other sites
26pointblue Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Which I think is what DIC is trying to say. I certainly don't feel she thinks it's okay for a guy to dump his kids. I think she's saying you can't force it and to force it would be worse than not having him in the picture at all. Okay well if she said it like this I would understand. But that's not what I got from it at all. I just don't understand... the 'more caring parent' raising the children, etc... my point & position is just that both parents should be involved in the children's life despite the relationship between the parents. Anyway I think we are all going a bit off track because the original post was about Wheelwright's husband specifically saying he would abandon his children if Wheelwright went to be with her OM. To me that is just wrong. Yes an affair is wrong. But to me abandoning one's own children or even suggesting it is much much worse. But then we have people justifying the comment & even, it seemed to me, the action. So that is where my mind got boggled. Although I think it's off point I will just say, I think one should encourage the father of one's children to be in the children's life as much as possible & do everything possible to facilitate that [no, you can't force someone]. But I don't think that was the original point of the thread? I think it was about someone saying 'you choose this other man & I will abandon the kids.' To me that is just as selfish or even more so as an affair. Yet many of the anti-affair people seem to think it's totally a-okay. It's a hyprocritical viewpoint if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites
26pointblue Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think DIC sometimes has a roundabout or vague way of trying to state things. Trust me - she and I rarely agree, but I get where she's coming from. You've cheated on your spouse. Your spouse says something as awful as "I'll dump the kids." Do you really want them around then? You can't force anyone to do anything, including being a good parent. Yes, you can force child support if they have an above-the-table job. If the OP is so worried about her kids being taken care of by a caring parent, she should exit the M. She can then be with whomever she chooses, her kids will have - yes, one - loving parent, and she can deal with the courts for child support. Perhaps that's the problem. She thinks he'll be effective at dodging child support. I'm not sure if this is what DIC meant but I agree with your assessment of Wheelwright's situation. I think if it's not working out & she's not happy being married, she should leave & do whatever is necessary for her children's well-being, on her own. I doubt her husband would abandon them but if he does that's on his conscience. And in my opinion just the fact that he said that is awful. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Okay well if she said it like this I would understand. But that's not what I got from it at all. I just don't understand... the 'more caring parent' raising the children, etc... my point & position is just that both parents should be involved in the children's life despite the relationship between the parents. Anyway I think we are all going a bit off track because the original post was about Wheelwright's husband specifically saying he would abandon his children if Wheelwright went to be with her OM. To me that is just wrong. Yes an affair is wrong. But to me abandoning one's own children or even suggesting it is much much worse. But then we have people justifying the comment & even, it seemed to me, the action. So that is where my mind got boggled. Although I think it's off point I will just say, I think one should encourage the father of one's children to be in the children's life as much as possible & do everything possible to facilitate that [no, you can't force someone]. But I don't think that was the original point of the thread? I think it was about someone saying 'you choose this other man & I will abandon the kids.' To me that is just as selfish or even more so as an affair. Yet many of the anti-affair people seem to think it's totally a-okay. It's a hyprocritical viewpoint if you ask me. This is a great post, thank you! Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) That's all well and good DIC but in your other posts you've indicated that the BS has a right to walk away from the children if that is what they want simply because they have been betrayed. Your above post and the others don't agree. I don't think the WS has leverage - outside of child support. Edited March 17, 2011 by desertIslandCactus Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think it was about someone saying 'you choose this other man & I will abandon the kids.' To me that is just as selfish or even more so as an affair. Yet many of the anti-affair people seem to think it's totally a-okay. It's a hyprocritical viewpoint if you ask me. I disagree. To me, there's a very significant difference between spouting off some otherwise reprehensible BS out of the depths of pain ("I wish you were dead!", etc.) and the actual act of betraying the marriage. Now, if he were to act on his words and actually abandon the children, I'd agree with you. The old saying of "actions speak louder than words" applies here. Her actions most definitely speak louder than his words. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The old saying of "actions speak louder than words" applies here. Her actions most definitely speak louder than his words. True GT. Very true. A young child's security lies in the strength of the family unit. The OP dumped all OVER the family unit while the cheating was going on. Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If a guy doesn't want to continue to be a father to his children, regardless whether it's right or wrong (we all know it's wrong), what kind of father would he be if he was FORCED to be a father? I would think it would be more harmful to a child to have a father under duress than no father figure at all. Well, becoming parents are one of the few decisions we can't 'undo' in life. No one is talking about force. What I reacted strongly against, is that some people, and DIC especially in several posts, seem to down play the responsibility of continuing to be a parent after infidelity has occurred. I find that pretty mind boggling. In the specific case of the OP, it might be that it was just an emotional expression during time of extreme stress which I think is very understandable. But if someone "doesn't want to be a father or mother anymore", there's a pretty serious problem that needs a bit more addressing than just 'oh well, we can't force him'. I've lived with messed up parents and agree that sometimes it's better without - but so far there's no information in this thread that this man was previously a bad father (although I may not have read all the posts in detail). To the OP, I don't see any bullying and I think you have to expect a very strong reaction to infidelity. The only issue I see is if he's serious about abandoning the children. But it's not clear that that's really the case. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't think the WS has leverage - outside of child support. Just because there is infidelity in the mix, does not strip the WS of their rights and responsibilities in regards to the children and yes I said it.....the other stuff also. Apparently the court system agrees in most states as infidelity is usually not listed in divorce decrees. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I told my wife that if she left me for OM, she'd be out of my life in any fashion, whatsoever, permanently. Point blank. The kids would have been taken care of. I don't believe that there was ever any question about that. But "abandoning her" as a result of her choice to be with OM? Damn skippy, and it would have happened to. I wanted to second a question mentioned above...what did you expect your H to do once he learned of your affair? How did you expect him to react? How were you hoping he'd react? Thank you, Owl. I'm still interested in what the response would be. And similarly to what you've stated here, I'm wondering if there was a disparity between what the BS said, and what the WS actually heard. There's a huge difference between "I'll abandon you" and "I'll abandon you AND the kids." I'm wondering if WW just assumed that if he left her, and she had custody, he was abandoning them by default. He's still there, so I think it's irrelevant and another way to blameshift and villianize the BS. But then again, I am interested in what she thought would be an appropriate response from the BS at d-day. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Just because there is infidelity in the mix, does not strip the WS of their rights and responsibilities in regards to the children and yes I said it.....the other stuff also. Apparently the court system agrees in most states as infidelity is usually not listed in divorce decrees. You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead ? Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRise Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 So the same man (your BS) who went to MM's home and hit MM in your defense (because he upset you by not giving you the closure you needed) bullied you after dday??? Maybe he said he would leave you and the kids if you went to be with MM but I agree with the posters who have said this is a matter of actions not congruent with words. He said something terrible. but his actions showed a lot of loyalty to you. Do you really believe he would abandon his own children? Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Finally Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Oh he said that, didn't he? abandon the kids? why? to punish you? of course, because the kids did him wrong . Wheelwright, I don't know your story but do you want to stay in your marriage? Because if I were you, I would just take the kids and leave him even without the MM. You cannot allow anybody to use your kids as a weapon against you. I agree with Tami here. My wife cheated on me 3 time (all before my A) and I never ever once thought of using my kids as pawn or game piece. It's not their fault. Even if he is hurt....it is inexcusable to use the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
26pointblue Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I disagree. To me, there's a very significant difference between spouting off some otherwise reprehensible BS out of the depths of pain ("I wish you were dead!", etc.) and the actual act of betraying the marriage. Now, if he were to act on his words and actually abandon the children, I'd agree with you. The old saying of "actions speak louder than words" applies here. Her actions most definitely speak louder than his words. I agree that her actions are worse for the marriage/ family than his words. [Not saying she needs to stay just for the children, or that that would even be best for the children. Just that if they are both concerned about raising the children in an intact family unit, her actions were worse than his words towards that goal.] But I cannot fathom how a father could actually say this about his children. Sure he's really mad at their mother & hurt but how could he say that about his own children who have nothing to do with it?? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts