Bullied after DDay

[wheelwright]

WW, was this something that your H said recently or after d-day (whenever that was)? I am assuming that your H is still with you and your children?

 

Then what is the problem if he is still there? Sure, he said something mean. But he didn't follow through. Why are you worrying about this now? Is this another way for you to paint your H as the bad guy-to yourself?

 

If you are that unhappy in your current situation then take steps necessary to leave it. Quit blaming your H for not being the perfect spouse. YOU have the power to stop your unhappiness.

 

Yes after DDay. But I just had a recent realisation that it has coloured all my actions post-DDay.

 

It isn't a way to colour him bad, more of a way to understand the R and myself.

 

I do see it as bad he said that. And your question about why think about it now? Is it because I want to blame him, or is it because he continues to try to manipulate me through his emotions and moods?

 

I am revisiting it because I am thinking about who he is.

 

That is not to say I blame him for A.

[WorldIsYours]

Anyway, I feel what my H said was deeply wrong,

 

Too bad. He feels the same for your cheating and continued selfishness.

 

but I do forgive him because I see it did come out of despair.

 

You forgive him???? Seriously? Oh god.

 

But the controlling and 'dealing an ace' behaviour changed my view of him. And of his level of hurt.

 

Your view of him already changed when you cheated. Now that he's pissed you don't want to deal with it.

 

I was facing a man who would do anything to prevent his nightmare getting worse.

 

Well the man is human and speaking of nighmares, you gave him one. One that he will forever remember.

 

I honestly think I would have behaved differently at the time had he not said this though. I also would have behaved differently if he had not been so hurt.

 

So because of his anger at something you've done, you won't deal with it. If he was a pushover you probably would've treated him worse than what you're doing now. You refuse to see you're own part in your domestic issues, ma'am.

[jj33]

Yes after DDay. But I just had a recent realisation that it has coloured all my actions post-DDay.

 

It isn't a way to colour him bad, more of a way to understand the R and myself.

 

I do see it as bad he said that. And your question about why think about it now? Is it because I want to blame him, or is it because he continues to try to manipulate me through his emotions and moods?

 

I am revisiting it because I am thinking about who he is.

 

That is not to say I blame him for A.

 

That was the point of my earlier post. People say all sorts of things in anger but if you are holding on to that there must be a reason. And if you had an A there must be a reason.

[26pointblue]

Exactly, which is why, instead of sneaking around and cheating behind my ex's back (and making my son endure the fallout that would be sure to come as in the case here), I tried to work with him first; tried my best even to the point of going to couples therapy (wherein the ex refused to go any longer once the focus was on many of his actions). After it was clear he wasn't going to put in the effort to repair our relationship, I initiated divorce proceedings. At least when you divorce, instead of staying in the R and hurting one another, there is a chance that you can at least be civil enough to co-parent for your children's sake. There is too much hurt in hanging around instead and doing dirt to your SO behind his/her back. That, IMO, is MUCH worse for the kids just as you said.

 

I agree with you. You did things the right way & the best way for the kids under the circumstances.

 

That being said, not everyone has the foresight/strength to do what you did. Humans are fallible & affairs happen. Sometimes it takes finding someone else to be able to leave. I'm not saying it's the right or best way but it does happen. I think the main thing is that if the parents aren't happy the kids aren't going to be either.

[wheelwright]

If a guy doesn't want to continue to be a father to his children, regardless whether it's right or wrong (we all know it's wrong), what kind of father would he be if he was FORCED to be a father? I would think it would be more harmful to a child to have a father under duress than no father figure at all.

 

The educational psychologists I have spoken to said there is no greater predictor of messed upness than abandonment by a parent. Most often as it happens fathers.

 

Having been abandoned by two myself, I can safely say this just ain't so.

[WorldIsYours]

I do thinks some things are unfair morally, and I am not sure if As are one of those things or not.

 

Affairs are one of those things.

 

I know I uphold the positive side of having an A, but I don't say the WS has no fault. I don't think my A is my H's fault. But he was not an easy person to be M to.

 

But him not being an easy person doesn't justify your affair. Period.

 

And I don't think H felt bullied.

 

He felt sidelined. Which is a trigger for him as a shy, middle child. That's what caused him the pain (along with the betrayal).

 

He did get bullied AND sidelined. Him and your family.

[wheelwright]

This is a great post, thank you!

 

I agree SG. And thanks for your thoughts too.

[wheelwright]

Thank you, Owl. I'm still interested in what the response would be. And similarly to what you've stated here, I'm wondering if there was a disparity between what the BS said, and what the WS actually heard. There's a huge difference between "I'll abandon you" and "I'll abandon you AND the kids." I'm wondering if WW just assumed that if he left her, and she had custody, he was abandoning them by default.

 

He's still there, so I think it's irrelevant and another way to blameshift and villianize the BS. But then again, I am interested in what she thought would be an appropriate response from the BS at d-day.

 

No, he stated about the kids too. We had already had many months talking about civilised we could be upon break up pre-DDay. Post it was a different matter. I do realise that's my fault.

 

But he said that about the kids. I didn't extrapolate. It changed everything, as I believed him.

[White Flower]

He couldn't "abandon" you, you had already abandoned him by cheating.

 

How is saying he would leave any form of bullying? Please let me know where you found this definition.

 

I asked you about tides and so forth in another thread, would you mind responding to those questions? I was genuinely curious.

Dreaming of tigers I have always respected your posts and your reasoning. Yet, I don't get your reasoning here because, if I understand the OP correctly, her H said he would leave her and her kids if she left him for xMOM.

 

1. She didn't leave her BH; therefore, she did not abandon him. If he felt abandoned by her cheating he might have thrown her out the door in an actions- equals- the- emotions declaration, but he didn't. He had a better card to play because she DIDN'T abandon him. There is nobody to blackmail if they've left you.

 

2. He said he would leave the kids if she left him. THAT is abandonment and cruelty toward your children. It's not ok to stop being a parent just because the other parent cheated, died, or whatever. So to threaten something like that is definitely emotional blackmail and yes, bullying. I'd put this in the Sophie's Choice category.

 

You weren't bullied in any way. He was.

The last time I checked cheating was not a synonym for bullying.

[White Flower]

He didn't get any power back. It was never there in the first place. And he didn't force you to stay neither.

 

He may have felt powerless about the affair but he DID regain power by manipulating his W'S love for her children. No doubt about that.

[wheelwright]

I would like to know, is the threat constant? Like he has said over and over and over again that he will abandon his kids? or was it just once, out of pain, anger and devastation? I agree with Wogs and I know I've said it too, people just say things in the heat of the moment. Besides, it doesn't seem like his actions have followed through, even though he said the words.

 

This is a good point. Yes it was constant over some months when it was not clear if I might 'end up' with xMOM. It was not a one moment thing. I don't know if he feels the same now. Regardless, I believed it and he knew I would.

 

He does not feel this about a split with no MM in the wings.

[White Flower]

Oh he said that, didn't he? abandon the kids? why? to punish you? of course, because the kids did him wrong .

 

Wheelwright, I don't know your story but do you want to stay in your marriage? Because if I were you, I would just take the kids and leave him even without the MM. You cannot allow anybody to use your kids as a weapon against you.

 

Love it Tami, well said. Using the kids in an emotional blackmail plot just sickens me. I'd leave too and tell the poor kids their father died. Or I would tell their dad something just as scary to mess with him. He deserves that s**t. Sorry, I'm SO outraged that Wheelwright was dealt this hand. No wonder she blocked it from her memory, it's unthinkable!

Edited March 19, 2011 by White Flower

[wheelwright]

What. The. Hell. Being "betrayed" does not give a BS a blank check to do whatever the hell they want. I don't care if WW was banging every guy in town on public access TV, her BS has no right to take it out on the children. No exceptions. The fact that she cheated is never going to make that behavior of his ok. And WW is only responsible for her own actions, not her BS's, so don't lay this crap at her doorstep that if she hadn't cheated, this wouldn't have happened. That's like saying if there were no guns, no one would get murdered. It's stupid.

 

And her H deserves exactly what he gets now - if he chose to manipulate WW to stay with him, obviously the idea that she be truly in love with him wasn't a priority for him. So he got what he asked for - her presence. He's chosen the way he wanted to keep his M, and there's consequences to that. Just the way it goes.

 

For once I have read a post that doesn't make me feel bad about H. Thanks for answering in the spirit of the thread.

 

Jeez, sometimes it's nice to be taken seriously when not having behaved well yourself and feeling unsure where is the truth.

[WorldIsYours]

The last time I checked cheating was not a synonym for bullying.

 

Well you may need to check again or get some new glasses because cheating is bullying, which is a form of abuse.

[WorldIsYours]

He may have felt powerless about the affair but he DID regain power by manipulating his W'S love for her children. No doubt about that.

 

He didn't manipulate no one. She's the one who had the drop on him. No doubt about that.

[whichwayisup]

This is a good point. Yes it was constant over some months when it was not clear if I might 'end up' with xMOM. It was not a one moment thing. I don't know if he feels the same now. Regardless, I believed it and he knew I would.

 

He does not feel this about a split with no MM in the wings.

 

WW, has he actually treated the kids badly? Abused them emotionally? Ignored them? Made them feel worthless or deny them love?

 

He knew your weakness, and he used it against you..Very low blow, but, it still doesn't mean he would actually walk out the door and never see his children again. Maybe I'M just having a hard time picturing ANY parent doing that. I know some are capable and I am sorry that your father and stepdad walked out on you. My bestfriend has experienced this in her life -- It was really rough on her growing up, a father who wasn't there after her parents split up (well, he was there but not 'really there') and her stepdad just treated her so poorly too. After years of therapy and going through more crap/bad relationships, she is now settled, has kids and wonderful husband. Ghosts of past hurts still haunt her and she does still have some triggers but she's able to fight them and put them in their place so they don't affect her now. (sorry I rambled on there alot! )

 

I hope if any love is left between you and your H, you two are able to work it out, give it your best before throwing in the towel.

[WorldIsYours]

Love it Tami, well said. Using the kids in an emotional blackmail plot just sickens me.

 

He didn't blackmail no one. And her cheating and gaslighting is what is sickening.

 

I'd leave too and tell the poor kids their father died. Or I would tell their dad something just as scary to mess with him. He deserves that s**t. Sorry, I'm SO outraged that Wheelwright was dealt this hand. No wonder she blocked it from her memory, it's unthinkable!

 

Wheelwright put herself in this situation. No one made her do this. Her husband didn't have anything to do with how this marriage is post-A.

 

The support for this kind of destructive behavior makes my stomach hurt.

 

How freaking immature, manipulative, and selfish is this line of thinking? Because he said a few things out of anger you would lie to your own kids about their father, AFTER you cheated and destroyed the family?

 

THAT is sick.

[wheelwright]

 

There was no bullying. There's only you still trying to find some silly reason to justify your affair with someone else's man, and to continue gaslighting your husband into thinking you still care about him and the family. You even said yourself if someone hot put the moves on you you would not resist his advances.

 

Thankfully of late two blokes 'put the moves on me'. I am feeling lonely and likely to be single in the near future. I gave both the cold shoulder. Because I am still M and probably still in love with xMOM. You will no doubt judge me for that too.

 

I tire of people saying - or maybe there is only you saying that - that because I had an A my attitude to sex is cheap. And I believe the love I felt in my A meant something - I don't see a cheap f**k as something appealing.

 

I honour sexual union. I want it to always mean something and not be just a bang.

 

When I talk about infidelity sex, it is in those terms.

[WorldIsYours]

Thankfully of late two blokes 'put the moves on me'. I am feeling lonely and likely to be single in the near future. I gave both the cold shoulder. Because I am still M and probably still in love with xMOM. You will no doubt judge me for that too.

 

I tire of people saying - or maybe there is only you saying that - that because I had an A my attitude to sex is cheap. And I believe the love I felt in my A meant something - I don't see a cheap f**k as something appealing.

 

I honour sexual union. I want it to always mean something and not be just a bang.

 

When I talk about infidelity sex, it is in those terms.

 

Affair sex is in no way romantic. It's just screwing behind someone's back.

 

Whether you believe it or not, it was just a bang. Just a cheap screw. Nothing nice about it.

[wheelwright]

Isn't that the truth. Unfortunately, NEITHER parent thought of that since one was sneaking around behind their father's back, and the other is now using them as pawns.

 

Perhaps the sneaker ends up like that because they know the spouse will treat people like pawns.

 

Just wondering there.

 

But why are you so down on cheaters and unwilling to see there is a whole wealth of factors?

[WorldIsYours]

But why are you so down on cheaters and unwilling to see there is a whole wealth of factors?

 

Because there is no whole wealth of factors. No one or nothing made a cheater cheat. Plain and simple. The cheater cheated because they wanted to.

[mizliz]

Affair sex is in no way romantic. It's just screwing behind someone's back.

 

Whether you believe it or not, it was just a bang. Just a cheap screw. Nothing nice about it.

 

Not true. Sex is sacred. We give it our own meaning -but it is.

 

You can't take that away.

[WorldIsYours]

Not true. Sex is sacred. We give it our own meaning -but it is.

 

It is true, and when cheaters cheat, sex with them is no longer sacred.

 

You can't take that away.

 

Well it's a fact. Cheaters think sex outside of their relationship is so romantic and it's not, and they know it's not, whether they admit it or not. It's just betrayal, selfishness, and secrecy. Deception to it's fullest.

[mizliz]

It is true, and when cheaters cheat, sex with them is no longer sacred.

 

 

 

Well it's a fact. Cheaters think sex outside of their relationship is so romantic and it's not, and they know it's not, whether they admit it or not. It's just betrayal, selfishness, and secrecy. Deception to it's fullest.

 

I agree with the deception argument. Believe me, I do.

 

However, the sex is still sacred...It uplights and it excites. We are only human.

[alexandria35]

Love it Tami, well said. Using the kids in an emotional blackmail plot just sickens me. I'd leave too and tell the poor kids their father died. Or I would tell their dad something just as scary to mess with him. He deserves that s**t. Sorry, I'm SO outraged that Wheelwright was dealt this hand. No wonder she blocked it from her memory, it's unthinkable!

 

Oh now that is rich! So your response to somebody saying mean words to you (not the kids), words that you know were said in pain would be to take their kids away and tell the kids and that their father is dead. Why don't tell us what kind of person would do this? What kind of a mother would take her kids away from their father and tell the kids that he's dead and for no other reason than to get back at the father for saying he was going to do something that he most likely had no intentions of acting on. The hyprocisy in your above post is astounding. Husband said bad words, so WW should take her kids away and tell them that their dad is dead. Unbelievable!!