Bullied after DDay

[tami-chan]

 

Tami-chan: Cheating, not cool, undermines trust in a person's character so the OP's H wouldn't be toooo far off the mark for wondering about his kids, as well though WW should have been allowed to make her own choice without the kids in the equation because now the H (in theory) would be left wondering if she only came back for the kids and not for him in the least. Not a great foundation.

 

And yo, fellow posters, character assault is not your friend, and yes you both did it.

 

I don't condone cheating. Do not encourage it. I certainly understand why people go that route-as I did. But would never recommend it to anybody despite the fact that my affair was practically painless to all parties and thus not much drama to deal with.

[dreamingoftigers]

You post as you please. Don't try to dictate to others.

 

TOS are already dictated.

 

Post whatever you like.

 

Would love to, but as stated have some concerns over the thread being deleted. And it being deleted because two posters want to get in a pissing contest. No it isn't life or death, but would be nice if TOS could be followed and you guys just chill.

 

I'll respond as I see fit. Tami thinks it's appropriate to support infidelity, blame shifting, and attacking the victimized spouse. That's ludicrous.

 

I think it is ludicrous to bang one's head against a brick wall (i.e. having an argument with someone that isn't going to change their opinions especially in which the way the argument is delivered).

 

Not the point at all. Wheelwright is using the so called threat as her justification for staying married to her husband, and tami chan is attacking the husband as a way of completing blame shifting and taking the attention off OP's bad conduct.

 

WW has made some pretty good insights in this thread, it might be better to review them. At the end of the night, yes Tami-Chan has a hard stance on people saying that they would abandon their children. A harder stance then on the cheating. You aren't going to change that by throwing all of your own experiences in a pot and delivering them to her for Christmas. She isn't going to budge. Two pages ago I could have told you that. And ripping at her character over an opinion isn't going to change it none, and it only makes your good arguments look delivered by someone who would also deliver character assaults.

 

You know what? If wheelwright thinks her h is abusive, she should just divorce him. Very simple. She knows that. The reason she doesn't divorce him is because OM threw her under the bus, not because she's afraid of anything her h might or mightn't do.

 

Or if she believes her H is abusive then she should take steps to protect herself and then try to change the dynamic in the marriage. Leaving someone is a very personal choice. If the children are in danger, that is a whole other ballgame. Most emotional stuff comes from conflict between both spouses. No matter who made the first wrong move.

 

I don't particularly care whether OP, tami chan, or even you think it's "cool" or not for her h to say what he said, because what he said is entirely beside the point. OP is playing the "victim" when she's not. She's the victimizer. She knows it, you know it, Tami knows it.

 

WW appears to be only beginning to survey her own faults. I hope that she can fix some unhealed things in her spirit and that her family can heal and be a happy healthy place as well. What her H said is entirely the point Tami is trying to make. All you guys are squabbling about is whether A or B is worse. Both are bad and both of your experiences are going to colour it in terms of different degrees.

 

 

Again: we all know this discussion is a side issue. OP cheated. What her h threatened was a direct consequence of OP's cheating and lying. She's an adult and if she thinks what her h said is grounds for leaving him, then that's what she should do. Her husband didn't threaten to abandon the children if she DIVORCED him. He threatened to abandon the children if SHE LEFT HIM to be with the OM. Let's get that straight shall we? So OP has the option of divorcing the h, if she thinks what he did was abusive.

 

Yes, she does. And so?

 

What she doesn't have the option of is divorcing her h AND leaving for the OM AND having her h stick around for the aftermath. You know what? Tough. The H isn't asking for your advice, for my advice, or for Tami's advice. The OP has to deal with the mess SHE made and welp, this is part of the fallout that SHE created. Bashing the husband all day long isn't going to accomplish anything and it is harmful to the OP.

 

Depends.

 

Tami Chan is an OW. That's a character flaw. Not an "attack."

 

"Honey, you don't care about honesty and you wouldn't know what integrity was if it hit you in the side of the face like a 20 pound mackerel."

This is one example of an attack.

 

I am very anti-infidelity, but a comment like you wrote above is a line I personally wouldn't cross on here.

 

I don't condone cheating. Do not encourage it. I certainly understand why people go that route-as I did. But would never recommend it to anybody despite the fact that my affair was practically painless to all parties and thus not much drama to deal with.

 

It does seem that you may condone cheating depending on circumstance.

[dreamingoftigers]

[quote=PorkRinds;3311215

 

 

They go that route because they're dishonest and lack integrity. That's why it's called "cheating." There's no excuse for it.

 

 

 

 

It's easier to cheat if you're insensitive to pain. Esp. the pain of the betrayed spouse.

 

Just for the record, I have noticed in my time on LS, and after having read tons of books on affairs, sexual addiction etc. And from having dealt with my H's infidelity that the female adulterer seems often to be often in a great deal of pain to go forward with her infidelity. She then gets completely latched into the fog. It doesn't seem to happen the other way around. Often it seems that there is something specifically triggering them to be in pain and vulnerable with an affair starts. Not justifiable or minimizing the horrible actions. Just odd. The male adulterers seem to be more in pursuance of sexual conquest and ego boost. They seem to be incredibly detached fromt their spouses. Whereas the women seem ready to cling at hope of any attachment, be it husband or OM.

[tami-chan]

It does seem that you may condone cheating depending on circumstance.

 

You are going to have to provide what circumstance that would be...otherwise, it is just your perception..and a baseless one, at that.

[tami-chan]

PorkRinds, you have lost your credibility. You were caught making up your own version of WW's story and shifted your attack on me and as if it was not enough, you are now accusing me of lies and distortions...LOL..nice play,buddy...you couldn't even rebut the points I brought up.

 

Oh..well..

[tami-chan]

You see how Tami operates, dreaming of tigers?

 

I AM dangerous! :lmao:!!!! you are trying to pit her against me, PorkRinds? OMG....this is sooo 5th grade...

 

Rather than waste your time arguing with her

 

Not arguing with her...just trying to correct a perception.

 

Dreaming, you should NOT have tried to stir the pot by equating my postings with those of Tami chan's. That's a false equation.

 

And now look where it's got you. All it does is provide needless encouragement. If you try to continue this part of the discussion with Tami, she will escalate, as she does with everyone who disagrees with her on this thread.

 

OMG, PorkRinds,,, stop....you are being so girly...(with apologies to my specie)...

[dreamingoftigers]

When someone makes a claim and you then point out that the claim they are making is untrue, what does that mean? Did you in effect just accuse them of being dishonest? Nope.

 

If someone lies (by action or word) 99% of the time, they may be labelled as dishonest. If they lie 0.5% of the time, would they still be labelled dishonest? I don't know. I don't draw those lines, where would you draw them?

 

We all have a little of what I would consider "dishonesty" and "cheater" in us. That's my framework and perception. Tami even pointed out that my point to her would be my perception. And she is right unless I sit down my ass here for another hour and sift through everything she has ever posted to show a pattern of condoning it etc. And even then, where do we set the line?

 

Do you think it renders the substance of what you are saying, any different from what I said, previously?

 

Yes markedly so. You central argument I did not take issue with and have no real judgment on what you may think is worse. The character assault though was exactly what I was aiming at. My opinion about you disagreeing? Everyone disagrees at least slightly on LS. Your life perception is going to be different then hers. I don't judge either of you for that.

 

You're being completely unfair.

 

Not by my perception.

 

All you're doing is stirring the pot, for what reason, I don't know.

 

That's a guess at best and you are wrong.

 

You just spent hundreds of words criticizing me for basically calling Tami out for her repeated lies and distortions. Then you immediately turned around and called her out for the key dishonesty, the key distortion, what explains her motivations--she DOES condone it.

 

In my opinion she may. And quite frankly I make it a habit to not take a guess at one's motivations if they look negative. One's history maybe.

 

You owe me an apology.[/QUOTE]

 

You are mistaken.

 

Had a very nice post written for you, then it was lost but I will sum it up by saying this:

 

Pointing out that there may be errors in someone's logic is not the same as calling them "dishonest" or a "liar."

 

Everyone has discrepancies, including you unless you are the one true perfect human.

 

Saying: "A lot of Democrats seem dishonest."

 

is not the same thing as saying: "Democrats are liars."

 

(btw I am Canadian and those two quotes do not necessarily reflect my political opinion).

 

The first quote would be 'my perception.' The second quote would be a character assault, and a label, and a judgment at that.

 

If you seperate the behaviour or the rationale from the character of the person, then you address that tiny part. If you look at the rationale or the behaviour as a reflect of the whole person and then make a negative judgment from it, then that is a character assault.

 

My husband is a sexual addict. He has difficulty with honesty and intimacy. His history and life experience coupled with a neurological dysfunction have produced those symptoms. I do not believe that he would have actively chosen this for himself and I do not believe it to be a fault of character or particularly a moral issue. It has caused him to lose everything and it has caused me great pain. I do not think he is a "bad person." I think his actions are destructive. There is a broad difference.

[dreamingoftigers]

You see how Tami operates, dreaming of tigers?

 

You're dealing with a true "OW mentality" here. It's always "Opposite Day."

 

This would be labelling and another character assault.

 

Rather than waste your time arguing with her, you'll probably just let her continue on her merry way. This would be negative predicting.

 

And what, exactly am I supposed to argue with her about. This is worse, this worse, "oh no he didn't"?

 

Because what happens is when anyone tries to address directly this kind of dishonesty, like I did, they get jumped on. By people like you. And this would be self-victimization.

 

Could you please quote from WW where you got your info from. Take a look at exactly what I jumped on! Examine it, you will find it was your delivery. I have made no solid or conclusive judgment on what my opinion is aside from the fact that both spouses have done some damage. Seriously. Read. The Post. Furthermore I don't give a big flying crap about what either one of you thinks of the OP or her H. I can read and form my own opinions too.

 

Dreaming, you should NOT have tried to stir the pot by equating my postings with those of Tami chan's. That's a false equation.

 

How in the world is that a false equation? Are your posts beyond the stars or something?

 

And now look where it's got you. Um, up for another 15 minutes because I got involved in a stupid discussion with someone that appears to be "right-fighting?" All it does is provide needless encouragement. (Value judgment). If you try to continue this part of the discussion with Tami, she will escalate, as she does with everyone who disagrees with her on this thread. (Negative Predicting) Check out CBT for Dummies, I am reading it, it is great for sorting out communication patterns.

 

 

Getting back to the OP and her issues, no, she doesn't really care about the relationship between her husband and her children.

 

You read minds part-time or what?

 

If she cared about that, she wouldn't have gotten involved with the OM to the extent that she was going to leave and take the kids with her, since that would obviously be very damaging to the relationship between the betrayed husband and his kids.

 

Was she going to take the kids to OM? I am not sifting through tonight, it is 6:15 am here.

 

The only reason she didn't leave is because the OM dumped her. So the entire premise of the thread, and Tami's attacks on the betrayed spouse, is just an exercise in dishonest blameshifting. This pattern is called Mindreading, I kid you not.

 

You are not going to get a repaired marital relationship if continued dishonesty and blameshifting is encouraged.

 

That's a given. Looks like WW will have to get to her counseling and see what she needs and wants to do, good thing she is willing to go for that.

 

Now my Pork Rindy friend, I am again going to say that it was the communication I was aiming at, and most specifically the character assaults. By applying your own brand of logic as a certainty, it forces others into your perceptual mold. You may want to accept that you may be wrong. People do stupid and irrational things all of the time, it doesn't mean that they don't care or that they are 'liars' or selfish. It means that there could be a dysfunction, poor patterning, or maybe they are just selfish liars.

I am not really scared of dealing with the potential Tami consequences. I think I can make it through and disagree with her.If she gets pushy, I draw my line. I say "I disagree."

[Tony]

This thread has become way too argumentative and petty. This is not the kind of people we are nor the kind of site we have. It's time to a TIME OUT where we can gather our thoughts and realize how unimportant it is to be right.

 

When we all come back, we will be nicer, more courteous, more tolerate of ideas we think are WRONG, and know that each of us are NOT the only person with good ideas. We will also realize it's not our job to insist that everybody else in the world think like us and hold our RIGHT opinions.

 

God Bless everyone!!!