After the affair are "normal relationships boring?

[donnamaybe]

He, like many other MM who have happy OW's, will not end the marriage. Why should he? He's got two women to meet all his needs. He won't be able to function properly if he lost one. So, he continues on with the affair and gets to stay married, having his cake and eating it too. That about sums it up. No way is he going to rock the boat and be the bad guy, lose what he has right now.

Yup. A positively wonderful setup for guys who want their cake and eat it too.

[xxoo]

Her MM is no different than any other MM or MW, it's a dynamic that just happens in an affair, a script. Sure, some are slightly different but the lie itself is the theme. Many MW and MM's tell their OW or OM they don't have sex with their spouses, or if they do, it's horrible, it's forced upon them and basically a way to shut them up, keep them happy and in the dark of what truly is going on behind their back. I've read some douzie stories about this stuff in my time on LS, and how when DDay does occur, sadly many OW and OM are thrown under the bus and in shock as those "truths" that were believed before turned out to be lies.

 

Yup. A positively wonderful setup for guys who want their cake and eat it too.

 

It strikes me that these MP must be masters at spin and rationale if they can rationalize (to themselves, and to their AP) why it is in their spouse's best interest to remain deceived and treated poorly. Surely they could rationalize why it is in their spouse's best interest to be informed and freed if that is what the MP wants.

[donnamaybe]

It strikes me that these MP must be masters at spin and rationale if they can rationalize (to themselves, and to their AP) why it is in their spouse's best interest to remain deceived and treated poorly. Surely they could rationalize why it is in their spouse's best interest to be informed and freed if that is what the MP wants.

But that's the whole point (and I'm sure you knew that ). The MP doesn't REALLY want his spouse to leave. He wants BOTH women.

[Spark1111]

It strikes me that these MP must be masters at spin and rationale if they can rationalize (to themselves, and to their AP) why it is in their spouse's best interest to remain deceived and treated poorly. Surely they could rationalize why it is in their spouse's best interest to be informed and freed if that is what the MP wants.

 

You know what amazed me when I finally spoke with the OW 2.5 years after DDAY?

 

She had not a single question to ask me......Not a one. Not how often did we have sex, (he told her we didn't), not how did he attempt to reconcile with me, not a one!

 

You would think she would have had one question about something? But no....she must have convinced herself she knew it all (she did not), and it was just easier for her to hate him, but mostly me.

 

How sad! No growth, no enlightenment, nothing.

[jthorne]

It strikes me that these MP must be masters at spin and rationale if they can rationalize (to themselves, and to their AP) why it is in their spouse's best interest to remain deceived and treated poorly. Surely they could rationalize why it is in their spouse's best interest to be informed and freed if that is what the MP wants.

It also strikes me that many OW are spin masters as well. They can rationalize why it's in their best interest to stay in a relationship where they are deceived and treated poorly as well. For example, thinking that being thrown under the bus at d-day is to be expected and is not a poor reflection upon the OW. I still can't understand that line of thinking.

 

But that's the whole point (and I'm sure you knew that ). The MP doesn't REALLY want his spouse to leave. He wants BOTH women.

Yup. What I don't get is why OW don't find that so insulting. Especially the OW that KNOW the MM is NEVER going to leave.

 

You know what amazed me when I finally spoke with the OW 2.5 years after DDAY?

 

She had not a single question to ask me......Not a one. Not how often did we have sex, (he told her we didn't), not how did he attempt to reconcile with me, not a one!

 

You would think she would have had one question about something? But no....she must have convinced herself she knew it all (she did not), and it was just easier for her to hate him, but mostly me.

 

How sad! No growth, no enlightenment, nothing.

Sore loser, maybe?

[OWoman]

You know what amazed me when I finally spoke with the OW 2.5 years after DDAY?

 

She had not a single question to ask me......Not a one. Not how often did we have sex, (he told her we didn't), not how did he attempt to reconcile with me, not a one!

 

You would think she would have had one question about something? But no....she must have convinced herself she knew it all (she did not), and it was just easier for her to hate him, but mostly me.

 

How sad! No growth, no enlightenment, nothing.

 

Spark, I can't speak for your OW, obviously, but I'm wondering why you would expect her to have questions. After all, two and a half years down the line, what difference would it make to her to know whether or not you were having sex, whether he'd begged you to let him stay, or whatever? Fact is, things turned out the way they did - you and he stayed together. If I were an OW whose MM had stayed, following a DDay, would I have questions for the BW? I very much doubt. If I had any, they'd be for the MM - such as, did he believe what he'd told me (assuming, as with many of these stories, that he'd led her (or helped her) to believe that he was wanting to leave the M to be with her) or had he simply told me that to keep me sweet? Or, had he really loved me, as he'd claimed, and if so, how had he managed to switch if off following DDay? Or, why could he not be honest with me - as he'd claimed to be all along - and tell me that, if it came down to the wire, he would choose to stay? Or whatever... But they'd be questions for him, rather than the BW. He was the one I'd had the R with; he was the one who "owed" me some kind of closure / explanation / understanding, if anyone. The BW owed me nothing - and, given our opposing interests, why should she answer any of my questions anyway, especially with honesty? (And why should I believe her, if she did?)

 

Just as the BW needs to ask the MM hard questions following DDay, rather than seeking answers from the OW (which would necessarily be partial, at best), the OW's questions would be most appropriately answered by the MM, IMO.

 

IDK - I've not been through a DDay, so of course all of that is speculation, but I suppose I'm surprised at the expectation that the OW would have questions for the BW.

[donnamaybe]

I don't think the OW knows. It's a gamble and they seem to be willing to spend their lives taking the chance that the MM will make a break for it.

 

What is more romantic to an OW than a man who will dump the little woman and walking away from the stability of his life, while losing the love and respect of his children and family, for the OW?

But after an A dragging out for year after year after year after year after year, one would think...

[OWoman]

What is more romantic to an OW than a man who will dump the little woman

 

The BW in my case wasn't little...

 

and walking away from the stability of his life, while losing the love and respect of his children and family, for the OW?

 

In my case, he gained the respect (and regained the love) of his kids and family by leaving.

 

I think, though, there is a big fear from many MM that they will lose the love and respect from kids and family by leaving - but I don't know of a single RL example of that. In most cases, it has brought respect - simply making a choice and acting on it, whichever way, brings more respect than perpetuating the twilight zone of the A - and in the others, it's had no impact at all. Love and respect remained at the same levels as before.

[OWoman]

You've got to be kidding. Yes this way of thinking is of the "twilight zone" alright.

 

Nope, not kidding at all. A MM who remains stuck, paralysed in the A, not choosing to devote himself to his M and can the A, or to leave his M to devote himself to his R with his OW, is unlikely to sustain respect from his kids or his family.

 

However, once he makes a choice and acts on it, either ending the A and recovering the M, or ending the M and focusing on the R, he's likely to earn the respect of his kids and his family. I've seen this play out many times IRL, including in my own family.

 

I've no idea what's so difficult to understand about it... Do you really think remaining trapped, unable to end an A or to walk away from a M, is so worthy of respect?

[BB07]

You know what amazed me when I finally spoke with the OW 2.5 years after DDAY?

 

She had not a single question to ask me......Not a one. Not how often did we have sex, (he told her we didn't), not how did he attempt to reconcile with me, not a one!

 

You would think she would have had one question about something? But no....she must have convinced herself she knew it all (she did not), and it was just easier for her to hate him, but mostly me.

 

How sad! No growth, no enlightenment, nothing.

 

I would think that since he spent a considerable amount of time spinning his yarn of what your marriage was like and what you were like, that she needs to keep on believing it in order to maybe maintain some dignity or else she has to face some hard truths and maybe that is too difficult for her. Also remember that he spent months or was it more than a year of painting you in a negative light so she still clings to some of that. If she accepts that part of what he told her was blatant lies then she has to accept that maybe all of it was and that is a lot to swallow. Also.......if she is still hanging on to part of what he told her she maybe needs to believe that your reconciliation is a farce. And..........maybe she is just pissed that you ended up with him.

Of course I don't know......what she might be thinking but I can see how some of the above might be possibilities.

[jthorne]

Nope, not kidding at all. A MM who remains stuck, paralysed in the A, not choosing to devote himself to his M and can the A, or to leave his M to devote himself to his R with his OW, is unlikely to sustain respect from his kids or his family.

 

However, once he makes a choice and acts on it, either ending the A and recovering the M, or ending the M and focusing on the R, he's likely to earn the respect of his kids and his family. I've seen this play out many times IRL, including in my own family.

 

I've no idea what's so difficult to understand about it... Do you really think remaining trapped, unable to end an A or to walk away from a M, is so worthy of respect?

Depends upon the definition of "trapped". My definition of trapped probably doesn't agree with yours.

[OWoman]

If the above is true, then it would appear it wasn't all love, roses, family blending. It would seem there was a business deal going on.

 

Kindly explain what you mean?

[OWoman]

Depends upon the definition of "trapped". My definition of trapped probably doesn't agree with yours.

 

 

It's not a definition. It's a description of a situation as experienced by the person within it - ie, the MM feels trapped, unable to act either way (ending the A or ending the M). It's not a question of objective reality - no one is (typically) holding a gun to his head. But that doesn't mean he doesn't experience the situation as being trapped, or paralysed, or unable to act.

[jthorne]

It's not a definition. It's a description of a situation as experienced by the person within it - ie, the MM feels trapped, unable to act either way (ending the A or ending the M). It's not a question of objective reality - no one is (typically) holding a gun to his head. But that doesn't mean he doesn't experience the situation as being trapped, or paralysed, or unable to act.

The Chilean miners that were underground for months, they were trapped in my estimation.

 

What you have described above as trapped, I would describe as cowardly.

 

Thank you for making my point. My definiton or description is not the same as yours.

[OWoman]

The Chilean miners that were underground for months, they were trapped in my estimation.

 

What you have described above as trapped, I would describe as cowardly.

 

Thank you for making my point. My definiton or description is not the same as yours.

 

It's not a definition. It's a description of a situation as experienced by the person within it - ie, the MM feels trapped, unable to act either way (ending the A or ending the M). It's not a question of objective reality - no one is (typically) holding a gun to his head. But that doesn't mean he doesn't experience the situation as being trapped, or paralysed, or unable to act.

 

Dismissing it as "cowardly" doesn't change the subjective experience of the person within that situation. You may consider it cowardly; they still feel trapped. Dissing them doesn't change their situation or empower them to confront it - it simply tells them you're not interested in them or their experience.

[donnamaybe]

And while it IS cowardly to refuse to act just because some of the action may be difficult, some people do feel trapped by their own self absorption which may very well be the case of many MM/MW in A's.

[BB07]

Re: Trapped.........as in the feeling of being trapped in a relationship or situation.

For me........I would sum it up by saying it's a prison of our own making and choosing. We only allow someone to trap us if we go along with it or accept it.

[jthorne]

doesn't change their situation or empower them to confront it

Then perhaps I'm reading mental illness here. I'll leave it to the OP whether she wants her thread to go down that path.

[OWoman]

Then perhaps I'm reading mental illness here. I'll leave it to the OP whether she wants her thread to go down that path.

 

 

You're seriously claiming that anyone who doesn't agree with you is mentally ill? :lmao: :lmao: Doesn't that qualify as NPD? :lmao:

[Summer Breeze]

You know what amazed me when I finally spoke with the OW 2.5 years after DDAY?

 

She had not a single question to ask me......Not a one. Not how often did we have sex, (he told her we didn't), not how did he attempt to reconcile with me, not a one!

 

You would think she would have had one question about something? But no....she must have convinced herself she knew it all (she did not), and it was just easier for her to hate him, but mostly me.

 

How sad! No growth, no enlightenment, nothing.

 

With all due respect why would you expect her to ask you anything? I can't speak for her but the R my xH had with his OW was between them and I wouldn't have expected her to ask me a thing. As an OW I had BS on the phone after every dday and she was full of questions and once asked me if I had any for her. I was at a loss. Not a thing I wanted to ask her. My R was with him. I was actually shocked she wanted to talk to me but I had nothing to hide.

 

Why are you making the assumption she hadn't grown or been enlightened? You weren't privvy to her every private moment or her conversations with counsellors or friends. Why do you feel that it would be part of her growth to speak to you. Maybe it was important to you to speak to her but it doesn't mean she should have felt the same.

[donnamaybe]

With all due respect why would you expect her to ask you anything?

Well, for a woman who had obviously been lied to NOT to seek the truth from someone with the answers is, IMO, odd. I don't see why that's so difficult to understand.

[BB07]

Well, for a woman who had obviously been lied to NOT to seek the truth from someone with the answers is, IMO, odd. I don't see why that's so difficult to understand.

 

Maybe she is still in denial about being lied to and spark's ws painted a inaccurate picture of what their marriage was and who spark is. Maybe she still views spark as that evil bs.

 

She doesn't trust that Spark would tell her the truth.

Edited December 16, 2010 by BB07

[hoping2heal]

Well, for a woman who had obviously been lied to NOT to seek the truth from someone with the answers is, IMO, odd. I don't see why that's so difficult to understand.

 

She probably didn't want the truth though. I have experienced this with a lot of OW- they want you to play into their beliefs and their perception of the affair. They want people who mirror back to them what they believe is taking place in their affair and they do not want anything different. I had a friend who was an OW who was a shining example of this. She would only accept people telling her what she wanted to hear about the A she was in and would not tolerate anything but. I am not even talking about saying "Well an A is wrong, you shouldn't be in one." That was never spoke about. I am talking more along the lines of heaven forbid you point out that this is the fourth time this week he has told her a lie - she would get angry at you. She would prefer you to assure her he had to lie to her and it was necessary because of X,Y,Z reason. I have known a handful who are like that some in more degrees than the rest.

 

There is also the possibility she didn't believe the W would be honest and if the W was honest the OW depending on her state of mind may either take it as face value or tell herself the W was just making things up. It depends.

[donnamaybe]

She probably didn't want the truth though.

Exactly! Therefore, "No growth, no enlightenment, nothing."

[Summer Breeze]

Well, for a woman who had obviously been lied to NOT to seek the truth from someone with the answers is, IMO, odd. I don't see why that's so difficult to understand.

 

Well if you managed to pull that out of thin air how about explaining this. Why would she expect to get the truth out of the BW? No disrespect to spark or slagging her off whatsoever. She'd been through 2 and a half years without asking the questions so why would you think they mattered then. Remember it's not just the BS that grows and moves on.

 

So yes I guess it is tough to understand. Maybe I'm just being blond