After the affair are "normal relationships boring?

[pureinheart]

Okay...

 

 

 

Let's look at a generic example...

A MM says he loves the OW, and the OW thinks he meets her needs in every way, fine. But...

 

The relationship is long distance.

The way they communicate is primarily via phone, text, email, Skype because your R is long distance.

They see each other two to three times a year.

It's been said that the MM has an account here and reads the OW's posts, yet I've never seen him post in her defense here on LS.

The relationship is a secret, and MM has no plans of changing that in the near future.

AP's don't have children together or own property together- he and his wife do that.

MM doesn't live with OW, he lives with his wife and kids.

MM is not financially tied to OW, other than the money OW has said he's given her.

Due to the nature of the A, there's no working toward any future dreams or goals together.

 

The italicized, while unavailable to most OW, are things that people who share more than romantic love do freely and in the open.

 

More specifically speaking, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I'm having a hard time seeing where I have twisted anything you've said. You do not share those things you've listed in your post with the MM. IIRC, you and others have posted previously that you wouldn't trade with the BS, so does that not support the OP that illicit nature of the A has to be considered?

 

Is what you are describing, really an affair or a soap opera fantasy?

 

This is pretty ignorant!

 

I had a LDA for a number of years, too. It is not without challenge, but it was anything but a "soap opera fantasy".

 

Although the above-described scenario claims to be hypothetical, it's pretty clearly aimed at a specific poster here, with the intent of slagging her off. That's probably against the TOS. But even if it were hypothetical, it has sufficient commonality with facts (as listed by me) of my A at the time, and assumptions (made by other posters) about what was going on in my then-MM's head at the time, to have been something that could have been posted about my A a few years back. The implication here - as it was to me in many posts back then - is that "he will never leave".

 

I'm not saying that the MM being implied specifically here will - only time can tell on that - or that any other MM will; but mine did, despite the naysayers. They can, sometimes they do. Posts that try to paint a picture that they NEVER leave, especially if it is LDA and especially if there are kids, are both misinformed and inaccurate. Rather, they should be honest that they SOMETIMES leave, and that OWs are well-advised to hold the possibility in their hearts that their own MMs may not leave, and to consider whether the journey itself is worthwhile irrespective of whether or not it arrives at their dream destination.

 

Most A's are anything but a fantacy. In my case exDM's R with his W was a nightmare, his kids even worse and of course general consensus on this board would be that "it is all his fault". He is D his W...no fantacy.

 

In my neck of the woods, A's were for keeps, meaning usually if an

"A" took place, that was priddy much the demise of the M and the AP's were M, or "together".

 

In bold I guess "generic" means "specific poster"....word games...it's interesting how the MP is labled the "manipulator" and "lier" (the list actually goes on and on)...yet these word games are not?

 

How about a big WHATEVER!!!!!!!!

[hoping2heal]

No, he can't. I have tried to explain to him that it would be better for his wife to be set free, but he just can't see it that way.

 

Of course he cannot see it. "Setting her free" would be one of the worst possible outcomes for him. It is pretty clear from your posts your MM is a big fan of the "Me, me, me it's all about me!" show. If he stood to benefit in some way by leaving then that is the choice he would be making but as it stands, things would get pretty damn hectic for him if he were to rock the boat so he stays and pulls the most generic and overused b.s. excuse (I swear, there must be a MM handbook out there) out there - which is - that leaving or coming clean isn't possible because of how deeply it would hurt their spouse or children (if applicable)

[whichwayisup]

Of course he cannot see it. "Setting her free" would be one of the worst possible outcomes for him. It is pretty clear from your posts your MM is a big fan of the "Me, me, me it's all about me!" show. If he stood to benefit in some way by leaving then that is the choice he would be making but as it stands, things would get pretty damn hectic for him if he were to rock the boat so he stays and pulls the most generic and overused b.s. excuse (I swear, there must be a MM handbook out there) out there - which is - that leaving or coming clean isn't possible because of how deeply it would hurt their spouse or children (if applicable)

 

He, like many other MM who have happy OW's, will not end the marriage. Why should he? He's got two women to meet all his needs. He won't be able to function properly if he lost one. So, he continues on with the affair and gets to stay married, having his cake and eating it too. That about sums it up. No way is he going to rock the boat and be the bad guy, lose what he has right now.

[jennie-jennie]

How about a big WHATEVER!!!!!!!!

 

Totally agree!

[hoping2heal]

He, like many other MM who have happy OW's, will not end the marriage. Why should he? He's got two women to meet all his needs. He won't be able to function properly if he lost one. So, he continues on with the affair and gets to stay married, having his cake and eating it too. That about sums it up. No way is he going to rock the boat and be the bad guy, lose what he has right now.

 

Yes I agree and that is exactly right. However, there are AP's out there who can't handle the pressure of a real relationship either (I'm not saying that is true in your case JJ) and that is another reason for getting into affairs. You can have the perks a MM gets without all the pressure and responsibilities of being in a real relationship. I think that is the only way you could actually be "happy" being an OW. The other alternative is to ignore the truth, put your conscience on off, and just feed into all of the BS you're being fed and concentrate soley on the "good times". I suppose there are some people out there who just have no conscience and could care less about who is being hurt as long as they have something to entertain them but I think that happens less often.

 

JJ if your MM can't " leave and hurt his wife" now, that will never change. The more time that passes the longer she will have been his wife and "so devoted" and it will be a continual excuse of why he can't harm the poor saint. He's just using that as an excuse to have you both in a way that is convinient to him.

[bentnotbroken]

What a wuss. So he doesn't want to be the bad guy, be the one to end the marriage, or be the one caught having the affair. HE would rather HER be the bad guy so he'll look like the angel he claims to be?

 

That isn't going to happen, it's a pipe dream.

Not only a wuss but a gas lighting wuss at that. Piece of ....well.

[hoping2heal]

Not only a wuss but a gas lighting wuss at that. Piece of ....well.

 

Well you are assuming he is gas lighting at all, he may not. JJ only has what is being told to her by someone who she already knows lies to make things better. I highly doubt he wants to deal with his wife's emotional reactions to any change. He probably has mentioned it would be nice if she found someone else (cause let's face it, for him it would) in the same way I imagine it would be nice to win the lottery, but I don't even actually ever play the lotto . I am sure he also lies to JJ about some things because if she knew the truth - just like his wife, things could get problematic for him. He is human and knowing what works and sticking with it? Well, that is very human. The man has learned (and I'm sure long before meeting JJ) that lying to get what you want works. Piece of is right.

[whichwayisup]

Well you are assuming he is gas lighting at all, he may not. JJ only has what is being told to her by someone who she already knows lies to make things better. I highly doubt he wants to deal with his wife's emotional reactions to any change. He probably has mentioned it would be nice if she found someone else (cause let's face it, for him it would) in the same way I imagine it would be nice to win the lottery, but I don't even actually ever play the lotto . I am sure he also lies to JJ about some things because if she knew the truth - just like his wife, things could get problematic for him. He is human and knowing what works and sticking with it? Well, that is very human. The man has learned (and I'm sure long before meeting JJ) that lying to get what you want works. Piece of is right.

 

A while ago his wife asked him if he was cheating, she was suspicious. He lied to her. They haven't had D-Day or anything, from what I recall.

 

ofcourse you are right, he isn't going to rock the boat and he'll tell both women what they need to hear. I mean he isn't going to admit that he has sex with his wife, that would just rock the boat and have reaction he'll have to deal with, like if he tells his wife about his OW, reaction and rocking the boat = Change for him, that he doesn't want.

[bentnotbroken]

Well you are assuming he is gas lighting at all, he may not. JJ only has what is being told to her by someone who she already knows lies to make things better. I highly doubt he wants to deal with his wife's emotional reactions to any change. He probably has mentioned it would be nice if she found someone else (cause let's face it, for him it would) in the same way I imagine it would be nice to win the lottery, but I don't even actually ever play the lotto . I am sure he also lies to JJ about some things because if she knew the truth - just like his wife, things could get problematic for him. He is human and knowing what works and sticking with it? Well, that is very human. The man has learned (and I'm sure long before meeting JJ) that lying to get what you want works. Piece of is right.

 

 

Not assuming anything. JJ has been posting awhile about the things he as said and done to his wife...it equals gas lighting to me. If she doesn't know he is gas lighting her to the issues of their marriage and his activities.

[East7]

- to be with someone without constant time limits

- to be able to argue with them, stand up for one's own boundaries without the constant fear that you will say the wrong thing and they will go "back" into their other relationship

- to be able to laugh open and honestly with them, without a tiny part of your mind saying "But she's married, but she's married"

- to be able to go out in public without it being an issue

- to be able to call them if you have a problem

- to be able to share them with other parts of your life

- to share your life with somone who brings harmony and not secrets

- to be able to walk away from them if they are being unreasonable without them throwing the whole mess of their marriage on your shoulders

- to be able to listen to them tell you I love you without thinking in the back of your mind "do you tell him that too?"

- to be able to be have love and affection without breaking your own boundaries

- to be able to talk about real things rather than just everything be focused on them and their drama

- to be able to move forward in a good relationship together rather than wait with your life on hold for time eternal

 

- to be able to die knowing that shared everything with someone and they with you rather than die knowing that they never cared for you enough to face all of life's good and bad at your side

 

My answer would be that after the coldness and loneliness of a relationship with a MW then the warmth and companionshiop of a real relationship with a real person would be appreciated even more.

 

Couldn't agree more SP

Love this structured post.

(And you are one of the few sticking with the topic by the way)

 

 

which, incidentally, is why I have chosen not to see anyone over the past year+ ... so that I can sort myself out so I am able to love as I would want to be loved xxx

 

be well

Chris

That's the rule I have fixed myself too : NO REBOUND RELATIONSHIP post-affair. And that's valid after any serious relationship.

The A causes so much devastation, you end up not trusting anyone again and you need to rebuilt the vision of what a healthy relationship is.

Before my A with xMW, I had a LTR and I couldn't help to compare the gap between the two. While I have loved MW more than I ever loved my ex-GF, my x-GF was all that MW wasn't.

My xGF was a "giver" : caring, faithful (she would never ever cheat), committed, never nagging etc.

My xMW was a "taker" : spoiled, selfish, all about her, controlling, jealous...She was very smart and knew how to play my chords so well, but the more I used to know her the less I was happy with her personality.

 

So I can say I have seen the both types, and I think I prefer a "giver"

Edited December 16, 2010 by East7

[xxoo]

No, he can't. I have tried to explain to him that it would be better for his wife to be set free, but he just can't see it that way.

 

That's unbelievable. Literally unbelievable.

 

The most reasonable explanation is that it would be hard to do the right thing by his wife, so he does what is easier. And, of course, he doesn't want a divorce. Claiming he can't see how it would be kinder to be honest with his wife (rather than gaslighting and slowly destroying her) is a convenient way to avoid doing what is difficult but right.

[jthorne]

That's unbelievable. Literally unbelievable.

 

The most reasonable explanation is that it would be hard to do the right thing by his wife, so he does what is easier. And, of course, he doesn't want a divorce. Claiming he can't see how it would be kinder to be honest with his wife (rather than gaslighting and slowly destroying her) is a convenient way to avoid doing what is difficult but right.

I disagree. The most reasonable explanation is he doesn't WANT to leave his wife. He (most any MM actually) wants both for as long as he can get away with it.

[Spark1111]

The bolded might be true in your case. In my MM's case, contemplating the eventuality of this scenario, he believes he would be relieved if his wife found another man. It would take away the guilt and the weight of the situation from him.

 

Idk JJ, my husband talked of the same thing with his OW. Maybe to relieve the guilt of what he was doing.

 

She tried to convince him I must have had a BF, because he, in his delusion told her we never had sex.

 

We had sex at least twice a week during his affair. gain, idk....he must have wanted to NOT upset her. Who knows?

 

It is an easy discussion to have and believe when the BS does not suspect a thing, like me in my former naivete.

 

But after DDAY, when I wanted nothing to do with him, when I told him to go get her, when I stopped answering any of his calls and refused to talk of us; when the possibility became a reality to him.....well, it was a totally different response to it all.

[fooled once]

First off thank you to the many of you who have shown empathy for my situation. It is heartfelt to see so many understand the damage infidelity can have on children and their lives. Too many people act like the kids don't matter or they are resilient or whatever. This selfish behavor is what takes these adult kids to therapy or make them unable to have loving trusting relatonships.

 

J-J, you have introduced this man to your daughters????????????? That takes the cake. My father used to do the same thing. But he would pretend the woman was just a friend or co-worker.

 

You know children learn by example. "Do as I say,not as I do" does not work. You are emotionally damaging these girls. They will get the message it is ok to interrupt with someone's marriage as long as he tells you it is not a good marriage. You say you have your own money? Then why are you in this situation? In my culture the role of mistress is ususally a woman without money who is looking for financial help. It is not ok even in that situation.

 

 

People in affairs are selfish. They cannot see the hurt and damage caused to anyone else. They cannot stand to see it. Only the pleasure they receive. And if God forbid you point out the hurt,they will do anything to twist your words and make it seem as though you are the one with judgemental issues. I know. Between my father,my sister and my half sister, the spinning they do to justify their behavior makes you dizzy. Also none of these 3 think the kids are damaged. But both my sister's sons have issues due to their behavior.

 

If I remember correctly, she and many other OW do take money from the MM to pay the bills. There are even some here on disability, not actually working, and the MM pays bills since they don't get enough from the state/country they live in. I find it very distasteful to poke fun at a woman who earns a living vs a woman living off someone else/tax payer dollars. Akin to welfare in many ways.

 

This is pretty ignorant!

 

I had a LDA for a number of years, too. It is not without challenge, but it was anything but a "soap opera fantasy".

 

Although the above-described scenario claims to be hypothetical, it's pretty clearly aimed at a specific poster here, with the intent of slagging her off. That's probably against the TOS. But even if it were hypothetical, it has sufficient commonality with facts (as listed by me) of my A at the time, and assumptions (made by other posters) about what was going on in my then-MM's head at the time, to have been something that could have been posted about my A a few years back. The implication here - as it was to me in many posts back then - is that "he will never leave".

 

I'm not saying that the MM being implied specifically here will - only time can tell on that - or that any other MM will; but mine did, despite the naysayers. They can, sometimes they do. Posts that try to paint a picture that they NEVER leave, especially if it is LDA and especially if there are kids, are both misinformed and inaccurate. Rather, they should be honest that they SOMETIMES leave, and that OWs are well-advised to hold the possibility in their hearts that their own MMs may not leave, and to consider whether the journey itself is worthwhile irrespective of whether or not it arrives at their dream destination.

 

It isn't ignorant. It is another person's view. You don't agree. Your former MM, who is now your H, had a crappy marriage. We know. We know you state that former posters poo poo'd your affair and said the MM wouldn't leave. We know. We know. WE KNOW. But you aren't in an affair anymore. YOU ARE MARRIED TO HIM. You had many affairs, but on your terms. We know. You were in control. We know. You dumped all the other MM. We know. You feel in love and married the former MM because it was the only way to keep him with you due to immigration. We know. You wouldn't have gotten married if you had another way to keep him in the same country as you. WE KNOW.

 

 

No, although others seem to love to tell me how I should post...in fact as an example, you yourself told me not be so hard on an old poster (Scorp). I had to explain myself stating that I really liked Scorp and had given him cyber hugs in another thread (I still think Scorp was cool BTW, he was real, we disagreed, but he was real)...he knew where I was coming from...it was H4U's thread.

 

You seem to be the one that tells others that nobody wants to hear what they have to say and also in a thread in Infidelity telling OW that they should not post in that section, that they had their own.

 

Actually, OW/OM seem to be on the defensive most of the timne, along with those who speak up concerning some of the horrid responses...I really hope that changes soon.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Whatever.

 

What I posted in infidelity was that OW shouldn't go in there and poke at the BS's who are in pain. They shouldn't go in there and say "he really loves his mistress, not the wife" to posters who are dealing with recent discoveries. I can't believe YOU would think that is okay. It is downright ABUSIVE to do that. It is cruel, it is mean and it is disgusting behavior. So please ensure you know post the facts. As to whoever "Scorp" is, I have no idea what you are talking about. I could easily pull up at least 5 posts in the last 30 days where you tell people how and where to post. If you need that information, I can PM it to you.

 

BACK ON TOPIC........

 

OP, I hope you are getting the help with counseling to heal. I hope you realize there are some really great guys out there who don't stoop to cheating. There are some really great guys out there that do the right thing and divorce instead of cheating. Cheating is for cowards. I know when the time is right, you will find someone who loves YOU and wants to be with YOU and will treat you as you deserve. I hope you continue to 'get better' with each passing day. Thank you for sharing so much of your story and for understanding that some people are just unworthy humans; and you don't waste your life having toxic people in it. I wish you the best.

[hoping2heal]

Not assuming anything. JJ has been posting awhile about the things he as said and done to his wife...it equals gas lighting to me. If she doesn't know he is gas lighting her to the issues of their marriage and his activities.

 

Bent, that's what I mean though. She has been posting what he tells her he does. It certainly may be true but it might not be at all, he may want JJ to think that. Either way, he is a schmuck and a bigger one if he really IS using gas lighting.

[whichwayisup]

Bent, that's what I mean though. She has been posting what he tells her he does. It certainly may be true but it might not be at all, he may want JJ to think that. Either way, he is a schmuck and a bigger one if he really IS using gas lighting.

 

Her MM is no different than any other MM or MW, it's a dynamic that just happens in an affair, a script. Sure, some are slightly different but the lie itself is the theme. Many MW and MM's tell their OW or OM they don't have sex with their spouses, or if they do, it's horrible, it's forced upon them and basically a way to shut them up, keep them happy and in the dark of what truly is going on behind their back. I've read some douzie stories about this stuff in my time on LS, and how when DDay does occur, sadly many OW and OM are thrown under the bus and in shock as those "truths" that were believed before turned out to be lies.

[pureinheart]

It isn't ignorant. It is another person's view. You don't agree. Your former MM, who is now your H, had a crappy marriage. We know. We know you state that former posters poo poo'd your affair and said the MM wouldn't leave. We know. We know. WE KNOW. But you aren't in an affair anymore. YOU ARE MARRIED TO HIM. You had many affairs, but on your terms. We know. You were in control. We know. You dumped all the other MM. We know. You feel in love and married the former MM because it was the only way to keep him with you due to immigration. We know. You wouldn't have gotten married if you had another way to keep him in the same country as you. WE KNOW.

 

 

 

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Whatever.

 

What I posted in infidelity was that OW shouldn't go in there and poke at the BS's who are in pain. They shouldn't go in there and say "he really loves his mistress, not the wife" to posters who are dealing with recent discoveries. I can't believe YOU would think that is okay. It is downright ABUSIVE to do that. It is cruel, it is mean and it is disgusting behavior. So please ensure you know post the facts. As to whoever "Scorp" is, I have no idea what you are talking about. I could easily pull up at least 5 posts in the last 30 days where you tell people how and where to post. If you need that information, I can PM it to you.

 

 

Second bold, this is delusional, I haven't been on the boards that much, and that is not my style.

 

First bold, if you already "knew" then why did you re-post it:p

 

The thread you are referring to is different from the one that I am talking of...although while we're at it, I see many bashings from BS's and ROW to a hurting OW, and you never say one word about that...I think this is a bit slighted.

[pureinheart]

Affair = 'fantasy'. MM's marriage = "nightmare". Now why would any OW ever want to change her status? Oh, that's right: it's because they looooove each other.

 

One thing I have to say is that I am always amazed at the ability to twist and completely take out of context another persons words...what a gift:)

[pureinheart]

Totally agree!

 

It's interesting that 95% of the time when conversing with a lot of the posters...especially the haters...a big whatever is always in order.

 

ExDM used to say that a lot and it cracked me up...then I saw you using it and it just lighted the entire posting experience.

[jennie-jennie]

Well, it does make me wonder when each OW say how bad or unsatisfactory the MM's marriage is, yet she yearns to be married to him.

 

Double wrong in my case. My MM was happily married when we reconnected, and I don't fancy marriage, not to him, not to anyone.

[jennie-jennie]

I thought you have posted that you suggested to the MM that he set his wife free. Wouldn't that seem to mean that you do want him to be with you exclusively?

 

Exclusivity does not equal marriage.

[bentnotbroken]

One thing I have to say is that I am always amazed at the ability to twist and completely take out of context another persons words...what a gift:)

 

 

Amazing indeed.

[bentnotbroken]

Exclusivity does not equal marriage.

 

Certainly not in your case.

[jennie-jennie]

Certainly not in your case.

 

Suits me.

[bentnotbroken]

Suits me.

 

 

Of course it does.