After the affair are "normal relationships boring?

[OWoman]

This doesn't really correlate with the type of A Spark is talking about - the type where, as happens in MOST A cases, the AP is hidden and a secret from the BS. Your MM actually WANTED a full time R with you, unlike most A's where the AP is happily kept on the side by the WS.

 

Donna, I don't disagree with that difference - but at the time, there was a cacophony of posters here telling me that my A was also one of those cases "where the AP is happily kept on the side by the WS". Assumptions were made about my A that are not unlike assumptions being made about other As here all the time.

 

I'm not claiming that those differences are groundless, or that all As will work out the way mine did, or even that all As are like mine was - but I am pointing out that, from the outside, most posters can't distinguish those As that do eventually lead to the MM leaving from those that don't. Hell, even from the inside, most people can't!

[hoping2heal]

I agree with you, but in the mind of the MM he is doing the altruistic thing by not breaking up the marriage and the family. He doesn't want to hurt his wife, and believes he minimizes the damage in this way. He sees it as selfish if he would pursue the path of his love for the OW and thus get a divorce. He can not bring himself to hurt those he loves, his wife and his children, for his own pleasure and well-being. So he stays with his wife, although he has stopped loving her romantically, although he is no longer in love with her. Another woman has replaced her in that sense.

 

He is already hurting her greatly by depriving her the chance at someone who genuinely loves and appreciates her. Secondly, the day he decided he would step outside of his marriage he already made the decision it was okay to hurt the ones he loves for his own pleasure and well-being. Had he done things with integrity there would not be so much shrapnel for all. Personally, I think that is just a rationalization on his part. However, I am guessing you are planning to just be an OW for the long haul? If he is staying because he can't bear to hurt his wife and children by leaving then there is no reason for him to go anywhere. Which is just gross for all involved not the least of all you. So you get to be an OW for several years and his wife, gets to continue to be decieved and miss out on her own love affair. Perhaps you should do a kindness to the woman and point that out to him. He is not doing his wife any kind of favor and eventually when she does find out, and she will unless he plans to do away with you eventually she will be more hurt and angry at the years she could have had with an honest person instead of him and his BS.

[donnamaybe]

Donna, I don't disagree with that difference - but at the time, there was a cacophony of posters here telling me that my A was also one of those cases "where the AP is happily kept on the side by the WS". Assumptions were made about my A that are not unlike assumptions being made about other As here all the time.

 

I'm not claiming that those differences are groundless, or that all As will work out the way mine did, or even that all As are like mine was - but I am pointing out that, from the outside, most posters can't distinguish those As that do eventually lead to the MM leaving from those that don't. Hell, even from the inside, most people can't!

But when I see some of these A's drag on for years and years and years and years and years , it becomes quite clear, to me at least, what type of A THAT one is.

 

As for the actual topic of this thread, I'm willing to bet that your "normal" relationship is ANYTHING but boring!

[OWoman]

But when I see some of these A's drag on for years and years and years and years and years , it becomes quite clear, to me at least, what type of A THAT one is.

 

This brought to mind a friend, whose A has been "dragging on" for years (in that, she has the expectation of "more", has been promised that and is getting fretful about how long it's taking to materialise). Why doesn't she walk away? Because there isn't NO progress - there is always SOME progress, and that keeps her hopeful. She sees things happening - and that keeps her hope alive. If nothing changed, nothing happened and it was clear things would stay as they are, she'd be gone in an instant (she has many other options!) but because she does see change, however slow, her heart refuses to let go.

 

Those are the difficult ones to call...

 

As for the actual topic of this thread, I'm willing to bet that your "normal" relationship is ANYTHING but boring!

 

I don't do boring. Life's too short!

[donnamaybe]

This brought to mind a friend, whose A has been "dragging on" for years (in that, she has the expectation of "more", has been promised that and is getting fretful about how long it's taking to materialise). Why doesn't she walk away? Because there isn't NO progress - there is always SOME progress, and that keeps her hopeful. She sees things happening - and that keeps her hope alive. If nothing changed, nothing happened and it was clear things would stay as they are, she'd be gone in an instant (she has many other options!) but because she does see change, however slow, her heart refuses to let go.

 

Those are the difficult ones to call...

Oh, boy, I hope her MM isn't just giving that teensy little bit more at a time to keep her hopes up.

[Spark1111]

My H's xW attempted to make him jealous, telling him about "younger men" flirting with her and wanting to have sex with her. When he responded that he hoped she'd enjoyed the sex, she completely flipped! According to the friends who told me (who were present during that incident), she was outraged that he seemed so unconcerned at the prospect of her having sex with someone else. The friends - who knew about the A, and knew that he and she were not intimate - thought his response was perfectly reasonable: he was getting it elsewhere, she should be doing so too (if she wanted). But she clearly expected him to drive to the other end of the country and assault the "younger men" for wanting to have sex with his W... to show how possessive he was.

 

Sometimes the goose doesn't want what the gander has.

 

Well OW this just proves my point that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.....especially in a man.

 

If he truly did not care than your relationship was an exit affair, a very rare event indeed.

 

Two days after DDAY, when told by me he could go be with his soulmate, he began stalking me, in his car, via text, phoning the children, out of his mind I would find a better man.

 

I mean, go figure.

[hoping2heal]

I agree with you, but in the mind of the MM he is doing the altruistic thing by not breaking up the marriage and the family. He doesn't want to hurt his wife, and believes he minimizes the damage in this way. He sees it as selfish if he would pursue the path of his love for the OW and thus get a divorce. He can not bring himself to hurt those he loves, his wife and his children, for his own pleasure and well-being. So he stays with his wife, although he has stopped loving her romantically, although he is no longer in love with her. Another woman has replaced her in that sense.

 

OP, for your own sake you should always be weary of a person who lies this deep to "minimize" the damage of the truth. That type of dishonesty did not start with you and it is doubtful it will end with you either. He was not always not in love with his wife either. Does that mean he is destined to step out on you too? No, he may never do that but people who lie to "minimize damage" do that with several people, it is just the mindset and it is rooted in self delusion and denial. It is self preserving in reality.

 

The reality is that a divorce would mean alimony, child support, split custody, fights over money, settling of assets etc. etc. It's tiring and messy. The alternative is to stay in his marriage and not rock the boat. Cake eating is not always about going home to "love the wife". There are many MM who are no longer in love with their wives but they use them. There is someone there to help raise children, run the household, etc. It is deeply selfish and there is nothing kind or honorable about it. It is only my opinion - but I believe the act of keeping a spouse on the hook and preventing them from moving forward with their lives so they TOO can find a good relationship and happiness simply so you can avoid the responsibility of your actions (For example, what your MM is doing) is worse than having sex with another woman. It is just the lowest of the low. That is what he is capable of and that will turn around to bite you if the day ever comes that you too, no longer fit in his "ME ME ME" plan.

[Darth Vader]

Thank you all for your concern. I am seeing a therapist. I have a hard time trusting people even if I want so badly to.I wish to God my mother had left my father. Or at least my father had the guts to leave for OW when we were small.

 

I know my sister's affairs and my inability to trust come from seeing what he did. Seeing how it destroyed my mother. Kids do not need to be subjected to that.

 

There is no reason on Earth not to divorce if you are not happy. Why drag the kids into it and pretend you stay for them?

 

 

OMG! After reading your posts, I hope you are in massive individual counseling. After what you've seen and heard, I think the word massive is correct. I wouldn't get married any time soon if I were you. Out of curiosity, do you think children who have had exposure to an affair of whatever kind, should receive counseling?

[Darth Vader]

First off thank you to the many of you who have shown empathy for my situation. It is heartfelt to see so many understand the damage infidelity can have on children and their lives. Too many people act like the kids don't matter or they are resilient or whatever. This selfish behavor is what takes these adult kids to therapy or make them unable to have loving trusting relatonships.

 

J-J, you have introduced this man to your daughters????????????? That takes the cake. My father used to do the same thing. But he would pretend the woman was just a friend or co-worker.

 

You know children learn by example. "Do as I say,not as I do" does not work. You are emotionally damaging these girls. They will get the message it is ok to interrupt with someone's marriage as long as he tells you it is not a good marriage. You say you have your own money? Then why are you in this situation? In my culture the role of mistress is ususally a woman without money who is looking for financial help. It is not ok even in that situation.

 

I'm sure if you one day married this man, you woould be heartbroken if he fell out of love with you and in love with another. But stayed around because he is such a good man. But I guess you think he would never do the same to you if you were together.

 

Your MM is so honest and good to his children. Or so he tells you. I have a friend who spoke to the ex-mistress once. The woman kept telling her SHE KNOWS he is a good father. He loves his daughter. He is a good man.

 

This same man yells at his chld and insults his wife. The other day he called my friend all kinds of names in front of the child. She went to school and later told her mother all she could hear in her head all day were the insults he hurled. This GOOD father is emotionally abusive to his family. I keep telling my friend to leave the situation. The daughter sayss she gets a knot in her stomach when she sees him.

 

Mr. "Good father" eventually left the affair. I imagine he told the woman he could not leave because he would feel guilty not taking care of his family. He should feel guilty of how he treats them.

 

He had once told the daughter about the mistress when they were together. Telling her how she would love her. This woman is a good woman. She would not try to replace her mother. The little girl still remembers this. But now, he is denying he ever said that to her.

 

People in affairs are selfish. They cannot see the hurt and damage caused to anyone else. They cannot stand to see it. Only the pleasure they receive. And if God forbid you point out the hurt,they will do anything to twist your words and make it seem as though you are the one with judgemental issues. I know. Between my father,my sister and my half sister, the spinning they do to justify their behavior makes you dizzy. Also none of these 3 think the kids are damaged. But both my sister's sons have issues due to their behavior.

 

 

This is partly why I asked the question above.

[OWoman]

Oh, boy, I hope her MM isn't just giving that teensy little bit more at a time to keep her hopes up.

 

More to keep HIS hopes up, I reckon

[jennie-jennie]

So then why not tell his wife and give her the same opportunity to find romantic intimate love with another?

 

It is a question I posed to my fWS. It was not developing feelings for another (although, of course it would hurt to hear that); It was lying about it for 1.5 years that devastated me and our children.

 

Dad becomes a lying, sneaking (fill-in-the-blank), when we could have separated, gone to counseling and discovered if we had a marriage worth saving as he explored those feelings with the OW and I could do the same. Kids and I would have respected him so much more.

 

I can only conclude, in addition to cowardice and paying lip service to not breaking apart the family, his subconcious motivations were much more primal:

 

He would never allow his wife to be with another man! He would never be able to handle that.

 

And that isn't altruistic or intimate. It's just plain, old, cake-eating selfish, IMHO>

 

The bolded might be true in your case. In my MM's case, contemplating the eventuality of this scenario, he believes he would be relieved if his wife found another man. It would take away the guilt and the weight of the situation from him.

[OWoman]

Well OW this just proves my point that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.....especially in a man.

 

Agreed.

 

If he truly did not care than your relationship was an exit affair, a very rare event indeed.

 

Not sure about this... As I understand, an "exit A" happens when one spouse has already checked out of the M, and is simply looking for any old A to help them out of the M. My H wasn't looking for an A. He'd turned down a number of previous offers, including some very persistent wOWs! He claimed to be happily M (yes, he genuinely thought what he had was the norm...) and it was only during the M that he realised how different things could be. Sure, they were completely disengaged before the A. They led entirely separate lives. But he wasn't looking to get out, at that stage. That came later.

 

As I understand, "exit As" seldom last or turn into Rs once the M is over - it's more like a jailbreak, when everyone goes their separate ways once freedom is attained. The AP has merely served a purpose for the MP, rather than the R being based on any meaningful connection... which isn't the case in my situation. It was exactly because we fell in lurve that we decided to be together. If he'd simply wanted to escape from his M, he could have done that a week into the A, before it got all complicated and loved up.

 

But perhaps my understanding of what an "exit A" is is wrong?

 

Two days after DDAY, when told by me he could go be with his soulmate, he began stalking me, in his car, via text, phoning the children, out of his mind I would find a better man.

 

Perceptions of "mateworthiness" - if nobody wanted you, and you were off the market, his status would dip - so he needed to find some other woman to boost his own mateworthiness. But if you were in demand, his status would increase - but he'd need to assert "ownership" to benefit from that. It's heads I win, tails you lose....

[hoping2heal]

The bolded might be true in your case. In my MM's case, contemplating the eventuality of this scenario, he believes he would be relieved if his wife found another man. It would take away the guilt and the weight of the situation from him.

 

So, in other words he would be relieved if she found someone else which would mean he would never have to take any responsibility for his actions? Now that I would believe and I don't doubt it is true for many MM. The wife finding someone else changes the dynamic of the divorce and how things will go down and they won't have to be messy for the MM. If he has guilt it should be for you also, not just his wife. He lies to you as you have illustrated already just as he lies to her. He has two women on the hook for him, both playing different roles and serving different purposes and being honest with neither but I suspect that has a lot to do with not even being honest with himself.

 

I'd give him more credit if he at least tried to take some responsibility for his actions and be honest enough to say " A divorce would be really messy and I don't want to have to be put through that" instead of the "I'm just trying to minimize the damage to my wife and kids" when really his main concern is minimizing the damage for himself. Not for them or you.

[jennie-jennie]

And God FORBID they allow, through honesty, the wife to date an OM for romance and sex.

 

Never, ever happens, does it? Honest separation to explore those feelings for the OW, while allowing the wife the same romantic freedoms the MAP is enjoying.

 

That would be too adult, too altruistic, too equitable.

 

Most men could never, ever handle that scenario. What is good for the gander should NEVER be good for the goose.

 

The above happens all the time in my country. This happened to me several times when I was the BS. Every time it ended with my SOs returning to me after a longer or shorter while.

[donnamaybe]

Um, it would never OCCUR to an honest woman to go sneaking around behind her H's back. Perhaps if she knew HE was screwing around on HER she would do so.

[hoping2heal]

For most MM who are just using the wife, finding out she had an AP also is a dream come true. If the W is also having an A, the divorce won't have to be hateful and messy and the wife won't be vindictive or nasty. She'll want to get out too so she can go pursue her own thing, she is much more "pleasant" to deal with when you are trying to determine custody and dividing of assets, etc. When she isn't trying to clean you out or get revenge because she is hurt and angry.

 

The MM can also absolve himself of any guilt or responsibility for his own A. The W is likely to be keen on not letting the children know about the A, so you no longer have to worry about them finding out the truth because what Mother wants her children knowing she has affairs?

When the W finds someone else there are all kinds of ways to rationalize your behavior. The affairs I've been privvy too, I can't remember any of the men being upset if the W found someone else. I think unless they still had feelings for the W, they would not because again - it is like a dream come true for a MM having an A.

 

As for the no sex, JJ I don't know how he can possibly keep up the happy home facade if they aren't having sex. She may be naive to his affair, but she probably isn't that stupid. That doesn't mean he loves her just because he has sex with her, but again I don't know how you can possibly keep that act up with no sex in the marriage. Who knows maybe they just don't have sex so it does not seem like it is missing.

[pureinheart]

OMG! After reading your posts, I hope you are in massive individual counseling. After what you've seen and heard, I think the word massive is correct. I wouldn't get married any time soon if I were you. Out of curiosity, do you think children who have had exposure to an affair of whatever kind, should receive counseling?

 

Darth, concerning the OPer, I think IC is the only way to go, as it is clear there is deep damage.

 

What is devasting to some, is not to others, it depends on the person and what they can deal with.

 

A's are no big deal to me, my parents handled their A's and they did not affect me. I understand that A's are a part of life, meaning they happen.

 

I agree that it is better that you finish one thing before beginning another...BUT it doesn't always happen that way.

 

This is just my perspective because I dealt with molestation and a lot of sexual/verbal/mental abuse, so for me A's aren't a big deal and not every A has major drama.

 

All of my ex's had A's. I left all of them eventually...what A's say to me is that my partner is done with me, so I waited for the proper time and did not overreact due to finances and left, or asked them to leave.

 

This is where I went wrong (possibly) and I believe others do this also. Once a MP creates/does a "dealbreaker" act of some sort, it is an eye opener to the P on the receiving end...for me, I went numb and snapped and at that point was done with the R, but remained in it for various reasons. I felt single, as there was just the "legal" document. If/when I met someone else I was gone. In my earlier years I did not like to be without a man.

 

It is not as "demonic" as it can sound...there are many details left out on forum boards.

 

I bet this sounds like I am a horrible person and the ones that cheated on me were horrible. No, nobody was horrible, demonic, whatever...we were just people who did not do everything according to the "proper" protocol.

 

Realising there are many forms of child abuse, the one that was the most devastating was sexual.

[xxoo]

The bolded might be true in your case. In my MM's case, contemplating the eventuality of this scenario, he believes he would be relieved if his wife found another man. It would take away the guilt and the weight of the situation from him.

 

But he has no plan to tell her that, honestly and directly...

 

So instead he will emotionally neglect her, all the while telling her things are fine, essentially messing with her mind (gaslighting), hoping that she will grow desperate and act as poorly as him....somehow justifying his behavior.

 

But she was a decent wife and person before HE chose this path, so how would it relieve his guilt for her to grow that desperately lonely during the time of his affair with you?

 

Can't he see that the path he is choosing is far crueler than truth and honesty?

[silverplanets]

It would seem that after an affair , a normal relationship would be boring. No more drama, no more competing, no more adreneline of longing, no more stolen moments that make tme together seem so much more precious, no more waiting for MM/MW to secretly phone you.No more seeing the OP at their physical best.

 

When you are able to have an everyday normal relationship where there is morning breath, getting together with friends ands family you may not like,spending as much time together etc. Does it make you long for the unpredictability of affair love?

 

- to be with someone without constant time limits

- to be able to argue with them, stand up for one's own boundaries without the constant fear that you will say the wrong thing and they will go "back" into their other relationship

- to be able to laugh open and honestly with them, without a tiny part of your mind saying "But she's married, but she's married"

- to be able to go out in public without it being an issue

- to be able to call them if you have a problem

- to be able to share them with other parts of your life

- to share your life with somone who brings harmony and not secrets

- to be able to walk away from them if they are being unreasonable without them throwing the whole mess of their marriage on your shoulders

- to be able to listen to them tell you I love you without thinking in the back of your mind "do you tell him that too?"

- to be able to be have love and affection without breaking your own boundaries

- to be able to talk about real things rather than just everything be focused on them and their drama

- to be able to move forward in a good relationship together rather than wait with your life on hold for time eternal

 

- to be able to die knowing that shared everything with someone and they with you rather than die knowing that they never cared for you enough to face all of life's good and bad at your side

 

My answer would be that after the coldness and loneliness of a relationship with a MW then the warmth and companionshiop of a real relationship with a real person would be appreciated even more.

 

.....

 

which, incidentally, is why I have chosen not to see anyone over the past year+ ... so that I can sort myself out so I am able to love as I would want to be loved xxx

 

be well

Chris

[pureinheart]

 

Don't you often do this to posters?

 

 

 

No, although others seem to love to tell me how I should post...in fact as an example, you yourself told me not be so hard on an old poster (Scorp). I had to explain myself stating that I really liked Scorp and had given him cyber hugs in another thread (I still think Scorp was cool BTW, he was real, we disagreed, but he was real)...he knew where I was coming from...it was H4U's thread.

 

You seem to be the one that tells others that nobody wants to hear what they have to say and also in a thread in Infidelity telling OW that they should not post in that section, that they had their own.

 

Actually, OW/OM seem to be on the defensive most of the timne, along with those who speak up concerning some of the horrid responses...I really hope that changes soon.

[jennie-jennie]

But he has no plan to tell her that, honestly and directly...

 

So instead he will emotionally neglect her, all the while telling her things are fine, essentially messing with her mind (gaslighting), hoping that she will grow desperate and act as poorly as him....somehow justifying his behavior.

 

But she was a decent wife and person before HE chose this path, so how would it relieve his guilt for her to grow that desperately lonely during the time of his affair with you?

Can't he see that the path he is choosing is far crueler than truth and honesty?

 

No, he can't. I have tried to explain to him that it would be better for his wife to be set free, but he just can't see it that way.

[whichwayisup]

Originally Posted by jennie-jennie

The bolded might be true in your case. In my MM's case, contemplating the eventuality of this scenario, he believes he would be relieved if his wife found another man. It would take away the guilt and the weight of the situation from him.

 

What a wuss. So he doesn't want to be the bad guy, be the one to end the marriage, or be the one caught having the affair. HE would rather HER be the bad guy so he'll look like the angel he claims to be?

 

That isn't going to happen, it's a pipe dream.

[jennie-jennie]

What a wuss. So he doesn't want to be the bad guy, be the one to end the marriage, or be the one caught having the affair. HE would rather HER be the bad guy so he'll look like the angel he claims to be?

 

That isn't going to happen, it's a pipe dream.

 

I said he would be relieved it would take the guilt and the weight of the situation away from him. I didn't say he would hand it over to her.

[donnamaybe]

What a wuss. So he doesn't want to be the bad guy, be the one to end the marriage, or be the one caught having the affair. HE would rather HER be the bad guy so he'll look like the angel he claims to be?

 

That isn't going to happen, it's a pipe dream.

No kidding!

[whichwayisup]

I said he would be relieved it would take the guilt and the weight of the situation away from him. I didn't say he would hand it over to her.

 

He just doesn't want to take full responsibility of ending the marriage. Charming.