American Women: Why some stray in marriage

[Anela]

Maybe I should have said feminists instead, but your use of the word "fembot" reminded me of more than one guy's calling me a femslut, earlier this year - guys who promote Bangkok, and other areas in Thailand, as salvation for men from the West (they refer to it as P**sy Paradise).

 

I'm too tired for any more of this tonight.

[meerkat stew]

Somebody keeps using the word "fembot" as a derogatory term for a woman who, I gather from his ranting posts, has an education, perhaps a job and requires equal partnership with a man with whom she's in a relationship.

 

Stop putting words in my mouth, just used the "fembot" term as a humorous epithet for gender feminists who use the same noxious "discussion" techniques over and over as opposed to anything resembling rational dialogue. The post linked earlier describes the phenomena in much more detail than I'm willing to go into here. It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with a woman's work, education or equal partnership. So typical of you to twist my words, though. Used to it and tired of it.

 

Perhaps this fellow LSer comes from some remote nook of this fine country of the U S A ... the pop culture term "fembot" is usually used to refer to just the kind of woman I believe he years for.

 

1. No single article you can cite has some "prior art" claim on a term that came from Austin Powers movies.

 

2. I don't "yearn" for any particular type of woman, rather I find they do most of the yearning these days. Is it possible that a man can express an opinion objectively, without every opinion he states being some reflection on the vagaries and vanity of his -personal- situation, masculinity, success with the opposite sex? Your tactic here, ironically, is on the list in the linked blog article containing shaming tactics. You and several others would do well to read that article carefully.

[meerkat stew]

"Everyone drives pickup trucks" is not comparable to "Women are greedy," "men are pigs" or "Black people are good dancers."

 

And of course, your conclusory statement makes it so. I see, par for the course. I give a single example of how normal, sane, unindoctrinated (LOL at your masters colleagues, masters in what praytell?) people naturally understand that generalities include implicit qualifiers.

 

By the way, generalities that sum up someone's actual experience are not akin to racial or ethnic slurs because such slurs rarely involve actual experience with the stereotyped group, more pure prejudice they heard somewhere than actual, personal experience.

[Anela]

Somebody keeps using the word "fembot" as a derogatory term for a woman who, I gather from his ranting posts, has an education, perhaps a job and requires equal partnership with a man with whom she's in a relationship.

 

Perhaps this fellow LSer comes from some remote nook of this fine country of the U S A ... the pop culture term "fembot" is usually used to refer to just the kind of woman I believe he years for.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-19/rise-of-the-fembots/

 

I would be proud to call myself a fembot, if it matches the description in your first paragraph. I was going to edit that into one of my posts, earlier on, after I'd declared that I wasn't one.

[meerkat stew]

Oh Noez, not censorship!!!

 

You know what you posted, it's right here in the thread for anyone to read. I don't blame you in the least for trying to make light of it. I do that too sometimes when backed in a corner.

 

Seriously though, forums often have moderators and rules to prevent them from slipping down that slope into the kind of battle royale territory this place can sometimes embody (and it only does so because of the fact that the moderator isn't keeping up with all the threads).

 

More conclusory statements with no meat behind them. Internet forums, by their very design, by their anonymity, and by the structure of the sites which allows you to IGNORE those you find offensive, are specifically designed to be battle royale type environments.

 

The difference you fail to grasp is that most forum EULAs prohibit specifically insulting or harrassing posts (commonly known as flames or spam) directed at a particular user, not harsh dialogue ON THE ISSUE.

 

Almost every illegitimate argument technique on that link (or at least a whole bunch of em) has been repeated in this thread. I'm tempted to run through and do a thorough taxonomy, but the rational posters already see this and the irrational ones would just continue to revert to form in their posts.

 

There is a gigantic distinction between attacking the post, as I do, and attacking the poster, a distinction I will gladly make in another post in just a minute in response to a post that insults me personally in this thread.

 

Many women and others here think it's their due to make specific insulting comments or assumptions about individual posters here yet that generalizations on a DATING forum where people vent and say all kinds of things are somehow verboten, worthy of censorship. Sorry, no.

 

Letting people do whatever the hell they want on an open internet forum when you are catering to a diverse crowd of the walking wounded is just asking for trouble.

 

What kind of trouble exactly, nuclear holocaust? global warming? What kind of trouble in a forum, one among many here, where the ability to speak freely is important. But I guess if there were an ignore function... wait a minute!

 

Yup, this is the internet. Even the biggest nutters that believe in reptilian overlords that are in cahoots with the gray aliens in order to take over the world can go out and create a website or a forum to spew their insanity. So what? Does that mean that every single forum needs to provide a soapbox for your particular hangup?

 

So you are saying that a man who comes here bitter about women and tries to work things out by venting and subjecting his views to an open forum is somehow a "nutter" akin to alien kooks? GUESS WHAT? That's just another illegitiimate argument method cited in the blog article! O sweet irony! But I see, any male issue with women is tinfoil hat talk, yet the cultural bombard men have to put up with telling us we are all child molesters, physically abusive, deadbeat dads, cheaters, dogs, pigs and animals is "proper dialogue?" DO TELL.

 

You can talk all you want. If people don't see the merit in what you have to say that is on no one but yourself.

 

I'm reaching people. Thousands of other Men's Rights Activists are starting to reach people using the net. This drives gender feminists crazy, I get that. Finally there is a mass forum where you can't shout down and bully, you can't fiat male expression. Sucks doesn't it? Gender feminism is on the way out, thank GOD for that.

 

This simply should not be the place for it.

 

Who are you, other than an erstwhile censor, to say definitively what a dating forum should be? I certainly don't begrudge the right of all the "woe is me" female daters to post their endless streams of consciousness, didn't intend to imply otherwise. But isn't it ironic that you can find value somehow in those types of threads that contain just as many generalizations of men as these types, yet don't see any value at all when it's a man stating male issues?

[meerkat stew]

Also, men in the U.S. cheat more than women. That's a fact, jack.

 

That general gap is closing at lightspeed if it hasn't closed already and gone the other way. One thing's for certain, women LIE about cheating more. Men are more likely to fess up.

 

And one other thing, for every man wearing a wedding ring, there's a woman who sees that as an invitation to compete and take what is a)socially valuable or b)what belongs to some other woman. So are these men cheating with other men? Hmm?

[Woggle]

Men cheat more, though. So they see anything that's a female as an excuse to cheat.

 

Women cheat just as much and I predict soon they will surpass men if they have not already.

[Mad Max]

At the very least, cheating is equal. I wouldn't be surprised if women cheated slightly more. It doesn't really matter what statistics say. Women are better at hiding it and are less likely to get caught.

 

 

Men cheat more, though. So they see anything that's a female as an excuse to cheat.

 

 

Way to make a generalization and stereotype men.

[Mad Max]

And while we're on the topic of cheating and who cheats more, I can pull an article and make a claim. Hell, this one claims women are more likely to stray!

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/09/03/2009-09-03_survey_finds_that_women_are_more_likely_than_men_to_cheat_on_their_partners.html

[meerkat stew]

I will never understand why people allow other people on the internet to troll them into arguing gender issues on a messageboard.

 

I would have been content to talk about the issue, what got me stoked up for the typical gender grind is the absolute refusal of the first few female posters to discuss the actual topic, instead engaging in the shaming techniques linked in the blog post. Kudos to whomever linked that by the way (BSsomething is the poster I believe), it makes the distinctions between real discussion and gender feminist BS crystal clear.

 

Does this look like someone who is willing to listen? No! Isn't that ironic? But in fact, he's telling you outright that he is not.

 

Listen to what? The typical shaming of the male POV by gender feminists? No thanks, I've heard it all before.... for 30 years.

 

These are the words of a person who is butthurt, and the butthurt are not worthy of blame or defamation, because their actions are understandable; they're just acting out in an effort to cool their melting butts. And why shouldn't they?! I would too, with a butt so clearly and violently aflame!

 

Will assure you, my posts here have nothing whatsoever to do with my personal situation other than being sick and tired of listening to gender feminist ranting and shaming of men for 30 years (translated, I do just fine, sexually and socially).

 

But interestingly enough, the above is a direct, personal insult directed at me, including a groundless assumption that my opinions stem from some "butthurt." You can find this type of argument on the linked blog, it actually qualifies as several of the different fallacious types of "non-argument." And despite that it is a -personal- insult, the nattering censors in these parts jump right on the bandwagon (see Springer logic, "You go girl!") So the utter hypocrisy shines through, censor any man who makes any general statement that isn't wholly supportive or indulgent of women, yet personal insults are just fine. I get it. Interesting stance.

 

And welikeincrowds, I understand why you choose to insult me as opposed to engaging any of the points I've made in this thread. You are at least smart enough to know not to swing a knife at a man holding an AK47. Good on you.

 

fight only the battles that affect the war; and let this thread die in peace.

 

Thing is, about that "war," you've had the power of the media and the power of unsavory elements of the government behind you for a long, long time. That support is wavering, women are waking up to the ways they've been politically manipulated, are crossing the aisle from gender to equity feminism in DROVES, just as they are abandoning the socialist bureaucracy. And as those cross over, the manginas, those desperately seeking female approval, are crossing over also (I don't want them, but hey they vote too) I actually know more female tea partiers than male, and that makes my heart glad.

 

Let this thread die in peace indeed. You wish.

[Woggle]

Meerkat is just killing this thread and that is a good thing.

[Mad Max]

LOL your whole post is generalizing, women are better at hiding it and less likely to get caught. LOLOLOL

 

 

Truth and generalizing are completely different. So you're saying women are horrible liars and usually get caught? That's basically what you're saying.

[sweetjasmine]

It was her job to cook, clean, maintain her figure, and shop. It was his job to pay the bills and provide her a $1,000,000 home in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Chicago, along with plenty of spending money, dates, and vacations.

 

Their affection was perfunctory, but roles were clearly defined and accepted.

 

It's fine with me if people want to maintain certain roles in their personal lives and are happy or content or okay with it. I just find it amusing when people talk trash about American women and how they're money-grubbing greedy golddiggers, unlike all the beautiful "exotic" 'specimens' from the Third World. I laugh because it's a better alternative than getting irritated at the blatant ignorance.

 

When I hear "Brazilian women are so hot, and they're not b-tches like American women" and the like, I think of all the older Brazilian women I know and the many ways they bust their husbands' balls. The mistake a lot of American men make is they look at young, childless women and assume that they're going to behave the same way for 40 years. Everything changes with marriage and children, and that's especially true in Latin cultures.

 

Sweet Jasmine,

This really is a great post thank you. Can you explain who these men cheat with??

 

For example, IF in hypothetical imaginary perfectly patriarchal country that OP would love to move to, 80% of the husbands claim to have cheated and only 10% of the wives claim to have cheated... WHO are these men cheating with?

Are there professional mistresses running around with 50 lovers each?

 

In my experience, if a husband cheats, it tends to be with a single/unmarried woman.

 

Guys that avoid going home to listen to the female nagger, the screamer, the bitch, the one that likes to spend all of your money, yeah many American women. The woman who shuts down and stops providing sexual needs.

 

What American men don't realize is that the situation wouldn't be any different with a Third World mail order bride and would likely be much worse.

 

I've never heard an American woman top my mother, aunt, or female relatives/family friends when it comes to nagging. None of us can stand it, but the men just sit there and tune it out most of the time.

[MeganDoll]

Men have been getting their cake and eating it too since the beigning of time now us ladies are taken the same advantages and where filthy whores?

 

Yes allot of women marry for financial and emotional security and sometimes we cheat with the hottie if the sex sizzles so what,everyones cheating nowadays Men and Women

 

Lets just be honest with ourselves all of us get bored with the same sex partner after awhile its human nature,at the very least your wife is fantasizing about someone else if shes not doing it with somebody else as are you lets all cut the bs

Edited September 15, 2010 by MeganDoll

[Mad Max]

Men have been getting their cake and eating it too since the beigning of time now us ladies are taken the same advantages and where filthy whores?

 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

 

Yes allot of women marry for financial and emotional security and sometimes we cheat with the hottie if the sex sizzles so what,everyones cheating nowadays Men and Women

 

 

So it's okay to cheat? It's okay to hurt your partner who did nothing wrong and put him/her at risk for STDs and emotionally scar them?

 

 

Lets just be honest with ourselves all of us get bored with the same sex partner after awhile its human nature,at the very least your wife is fantasizing about someone else if shes not doing it with somebody else as are you lets all cut the bs

 

 

It doesn't have to get boring. Fantasizing and actually acting on it are two different things.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Meerkat Stew, I really think you need a nice warm bubble bath and maybe even a hug. This soap box you're on is very wobbly and it's not holding up well at all.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Because on the contrary, are you really willing to say "Hmm, I suppose women really should be more silent on some issues!" Is that a position you could ever consider hearing? In a true discourse, you would answer, without a doubt, "Yes, of course! If that is the truth." But that's so unfathomable; the very nature of the argument would prevent you from considering such a thing. So don't bother! Accept that this issue will never be answered, and certainly not in an earth-shattering, press-worthy thread on http://www.loveshack.org; fight only the battles that affect the war; and let this thread die in peace.

(That's what I say, anyway, but I'm not so naive to think that this thread doesn't have at least another 2 pages in it.)

 

Here is the difference between us. When I feel that I've been proven wrong regarding my position on something, I change opinion... and apologize if necessary.

 

Is it really required to use derogatory language to describe someone you disagree with? I think that says more about you and the validity of your beliefs than it does about his.

 

I think if this thread didn't touch on a subject of much feeling... then nobody would respond.

 

I don't get the point of this thread.

Except a bunch of people seem randomly angry at "American women/moms."

Okay, so?

Nothing much you can do about it anyway, regardless of its veracity.

<shrugs>

 

I suppose the point is that your fired. I'm taking my business elsewhere... and I apologize for it, because it's not your fault.

 

Have fun with bedwetters still living with mommy, and guys that like to punch you in the face for fun.

 

I agree. What I have the biggest issue with isn't even men v. women it's the lack of personal responsibility. People of both genders make sh*tty decisions when it comes to relationships. I feel like as adults people should be able to acknowledge their mistakes, learn how to make better decisions and move on. Instead I see so many people blaming everyone but themselves and spew hatred and make ridicules statements.

I get that the OP went through a crappy divorce. I understand that that sucks and that he may not have been treated fairly (though I of course do not know the facts). I just feel like a grown man should be able to voice anger and hurt over his divorce and how his experience is similar to the article without jumping to this "all American women" stuff.

 

Actually... I did handle the divorce and subsequent 2 years of fiscal hell with a smile on my face a hope for the future. Also 3 years ago when I caught my ex GF cheating... I moved on without a sniffle or complaint. Now I catch another GF cheating... another 2 year relationship ending like this... It isn't going away.

 

But... as Ive heard many times before... "the only common denominator is me". In the advice world it seems that if a man cheats it's his fault and if a woman cheats... it's his fault. Actually I've heard some fantastic advice given to other people here... but so far that's all I got from people here.

 

Maybe part of it is that there are many independent women in America, and it gives them power and freedom to make good and bad decisions, while in other countries, men have most of the power in the relationship. Choosing to be unfaithful to their marriage is one of those bad decisions both men and women can make. Different people take marriage and its vows more or less seriously than others. People are different. Most people take their marriages seriously and have enough love and respect for their partners enough not to stray.

 

Goose... I agree with what your saying here. With a few tweaks.

 

Just as men in 3rd world countries hold all the power in a relationship... The women in many Western countries hold the legal power. There have been some enormous imbalances created by the women's movement. I don't think it was intentional, but so far nobody has addressed them.

 

Whenever anyone is given legal advantage over the other it's wrong... and it needs to be addressed.

 

What American men don't realize is that the situation wouldn't be any different with a Third World mail order bride and would likely be much worse.

I've never heard an American woman top my mother, aunt, or female relatives/family friends when it comes to nagging. None of us can stand it, but the men just sit there and tune it out most of the time.

 

Don't be silly! Do you think by looking at foreign women I am looking to pick up a living blow up doll... or some obedient sex object? That seems to be the stereotype you and others want to try and promote. I think that is wildly inaccurate, and demeaning to both the man and the woman.

 

In your example of Brazilian women.... I've known many... and dated one. I swear she could breath fire when angry, and yes it's true she was a pitbull when trying to get me to do something. However, I can say without doubt that she was a wonderful woman, honest to a fault, and not a cheat. It's too bad she had to move back to Brazil.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Men have been getting their cake and eating it too since the beigning of time now us ladies are taken the same advantages and where filthy whores?

Yes allot of women marry for financial and emotional security and sometimes we cheat with the hottie if the sex sizzles so what,everyones cheating nowadays Men and Women

Lets just be honest with ourselves all of us get bored with the same sex partner after awhile its human nature,at the very least your wife is fantasizing about someone else if shes not doing it with somebody else as are you lets all cut the bs

 

:bunny::bunny:

 

I feel like this whole thread is complete. Your attitude is the mirror image of a generation of women in the U.S. Thank you for confirming my belief that you and your ilk are to be avoided whenever possible.

 

Also, this may sound cliche, but if you do some therapy... it may help you to build your self esteem. Then you won't feel as though you have the right to lie and hurt people.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Ok.... So moving beyond a basic vent/rant.

 

It's irrefutable at this point that women in american are cheating more and more.

 

1. Is this a good thing for us a culture?

2. Is this a good thing for children and families?

3. What is causing the crazy increase in this trend?

4. If it's deemed bad, what can we do to curb this behavior?

5. If its' deemed good, how can we further endorse it?

 

Additionally,

 

6. What factors could reduce male infidelity?

7. Does it really hurt the family unit more than female infidelity?

[Pyro]

The article was from 2004. Isn't there anything more recent?

 

There will never be a sure way to know which gender cheats more. Every survey will vary and just think of how many cheaters are hiding out there.

 

Society as a whole gets greedier each year and the total number IMO will increase each year.

 

This stereotyping of either gender is ridiculous and childish. Treat each person as an individual. I learned after an ex cheated on me some signs of someone being dishonest and some of my friends who BS all the time is apparent.

 

If you take the time to pay attention to someone when they talk and see if their actions match what they say then thats a good indication of knowing if someone is honest or not.

 

I don't buy the BS that women can hide lies better. You just need to look for the signs of a liar.

[Pyro]

Ok.... So moving beyond a basic vent/rant.

 

It's irrefutable at this point that women in american are cheating more and more.

 

1. Is this a good thing for us a culture?

2. Is this a good thing for children and families?

3. What is causing the crazy increase in this trend?

4. If it's deemed bad, what can we do to curb this behavior?

5. If its' deemed good, how can we further endorse it?

 

Additionally,

 

6. What factors could reduce male infidelity?

7. Does it really hurt the family unit more than female infidelity?

 

Cheating is NEVER a good thing for anyone. It will mess with the kids minds and create bitterness. Divorce before you start seeing someone else.

 

I think the problem lies in a few ways:

 

-The fear to approach your SO and initiate divorce whether it be because you are just too spineless to be honest or because they have been abused emotionally or physically and are scared for their lives.

 

Just being plain lazy. After so long and after having kids you tend to get in the comfortable stage where the sexual aspect of the relationship has disappeared. Communication and the desire to keep the passion going is what is going to make it last but not doing anything about it is easier and there lies why some people stray outside their marriage.

[meerkat stew]

This soap box you're on is very wobbly and it's not holding up well at all.

 

Soap box? No this is just playtime. Clients pay me to get on a soap box for real, deconstructing gender feminism is way too easy to charge a fee for, I do it pro bono for kicks and the edification of those interested in the truth.

 

But like OP, I'm content to rest the thread on Megandoll's post. Says what needs saying better than I ever could

[BS76]

Men cheat more, though. So they see anything that's a female as an excuse to cheat.

 

I strongly doubt any of the research that suggests men cheat more than men. It just doesn't match up with what I see on the streets every day. Perhaps in the past that was true, but with the sexual revolution and women's push to have many partners like men do (which is a biological drive by the way, which is counter to that of womens'), I think women are just more discrete about getting found out.

 

Another valid reason for cheating is that people get married for love, and love is fickle. Subsequently with society's egalitarian bent thanks to feminism women's cheating is encouraged and often excused as somehow being the man's fault she strayed. That's just a bunch of feminist hogwash.

[JL Hancock]

is confuse me maybe? men and women argue women maybe cheat as many times? yes? they see men cheat and think what is good with cheat? so now they cheat. you show them to cheat and see them cheat and with no blame on how you cheat for them to see and learn. this is this country way? i hear say you do how i tell you but not what i show. i laugh. this is to be say to kids by mother and father. women are not kids. men are not father for women. and it not work for kids by mother and father also. to teach better maybe men stop cheats then you can say this to women.

it is not what country where you are live. be as my father and not cheat can be how for any country way for men.

[sweetjasmine]

Don't be silly! Do you think by looking at foreign women I am looking to pick up a living blow up doll... or some obedient sex object? That seems to be the stereotype you and others want to try and promote. I think that is wildly inaccurate, and demeaning to both the man and the woman.

 

You're missing my point. I'm saying that people who think foreign women are better than Americans because they'll shut up and put out and then make you a sandwich with a big smile on their face are dead wrong. People who think foreign women are automatically less materialistic than American women, by sheer virtue of living in developing countries, are wrong. People who go off and search for a Third World mail order bride might think they're getting a quiet, traditional servant to spread her legs on command and raise children without complaint, but they don't fully understand how gender roles in some of these cultures work.

 

In your example of Brazilian women.... I've known many... and dated one. I swear she could breath fire when angry, and yes it's true she was a pitbull when trying to get me to do something. However, I can say without doubt that she was a wonderful woman, honest to a fault, and not a cheat. It's too bad she had to move back to Brazil.

 

Sure, and to clarify, I'm not saying that women from cultures like mine are terrible or worse or anything like that. They're just different in what they expect and what they do in relationships. And in reality, women from my culture hold a lot of power, privately, even though they may not hold as much power as men in public. I think there are a lot of American men out there who don't understand that about women from my part of the world.