American Women: Why some stray in marriage

[GooseChaser]

People are all different. The key is to find one who is a good person, and you're set.

[Ruby Slippers]

In my family's culture, married women don't stray because they're too busy cleaning up after their husband and five children and too full of resentment and bitterness to ever want to touch another human being sexually ever again.

 

They tolerate their husbands banging mistresses, and both the husbands and wives tolerate their marriage for as long as they have to because divorce is disgraceful and will destroy their children even if their children are adults. "For the kids" really means "for the kids", and it's for life. Divorce wasn't even a legal option in many countries in our part of the world until fairly recently. Chile only legalized it in 2004. And even though it's now an option, there's still a cultural stigma attached to it, especially among the older generations and among religious people.

 

Wives also judge their husbands' worth by how well they support the family: if there are financial problems, he's not fulfilling his role as a man, and if he doesn't fix it, he's a loser and a failure. It's his job to give the family whatever it needs and then some. Wives expect to be able to buy whatever they need. Husbands' salaries are considered family property.

 

(Incidentally, this is why I laugh when I read about how South American women are so much better because they're not materialistic golddiggers like skanky American b-tches. Right, because everyone in South America lives in a mud hut and would be so thrilled about living in a 2 bedroom apartment that they'd never ask for anything more. Sure.)

 

As for parenting, the American "18 and you're out the door and off to a college far, far away" and "I'm sending my kids to summer camp every year" attitudes are considered cold and uncaring. The right thing to do is to study near home and to live with your parents until you marry.

 

And if women from my culture are "better" mothers, it's because they fully accept the mom role at the expense of everything else. Sex lives dry up fast, since mothers are expected to devote every ounce of energy to their children and treat it like their exclusive round-the-clock job.

 

Cultural attitudes are shifting and becoming more liberal, but those expectations I described still exist, and there are lingering effects. I have family members in their 20s and 30s who buy into most of what I wrote above, so it's not exactly going away anytime soon.

Great post. I'm from the US, and my experience backs this up. Last year, I consulted in home for an (older, overweight, balding) American businessman who had married and imported his (moderately attractive) wife and her daughter from Chile.

 

It was her job to cook, clean, maintain her figure, and shop. It was his job to pay the bills and provide her a $1,000,000 home in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Chicago, along with plenty of spending money, dates, and vacations.

 

Their affection was perfunctory, but roles were clearly defined and accepted.

[meerkat stew]

The point of this thread was to stir the pot. Threads like this one should not even be allowed as they do nothing other than create a bad atmosphere on the forums.

 

Sure, censor away, that's actually the -preferred- method of shaming male POVs that wasn't mentioned in the linked post. Sorry, you can't "shout down" people here as you would elsewhere so they can't even be heard. Thank god for the internet. Men can actually speak here as opposed to facing a vicious band of shrieking harridans in person. We have had to listen to you without any possibility of counterpoint due to such shrieking for decades now, get used to listening to us.

 

The OP topic is every bit as legit on a dating forum as the endless "look at me, cry for me, give me attention" threads by certain females here who create massive threads posting every noxious piece of minutiae about whatever is going through their heads at the moment in an effort to elicit pity and attention. But those kinds of threads, which often include REAMS and REAMS of unfair characterizations of men don't create a "bad atmosphere" do they?

[Holding-On]

In my family's culture, married women don't stray because they're too busy cleaning up after their husband and five children and too full of resentment and bitterness to ever want to touch another human being sexually ever again.

 

They tolerate their husbands banging mistresses, and both the husbands and wives tolerate their marriage for as long as they have to because divorce is disgraceful and will destroy their children even if their children are adults. "For the kids" really means "for the kids", and it's for life. Divorce wasn't even a legal option in many countries in our part of the world until fairly recently. Chile only legalized it in 2004. And even though it's now an option, there's still a cultural stigma attached to it, especially among the older generations and among religious people.

 

Wives also judge their husbands' worth by how well they support the family: if there are financial problems, he's not fulfilling his role as a man, and if he doesn't fix it, he's a loser and a failure. It's his job to give the family whatever it needs and then some. Wives expect to be able to buy whatever they need. Husbands' salaries are considered family property.

 

(Incidentally, this is why I laugh when I read about how South American women are so much better because they're not materialistic golddiggers like skanky American b-tches. Right, because everyone in South America lives in a mud hut and would be so thrilled about living in a 2 bedroom apartment that they'd never ask for anything more. Sure.)

 

As for parenting, the American "18 and you're out the door and off to a college far, far away" and "I'm sending my kids to summer camp every year" attitudes are considered cold and uncaring. The right thing to do is to study near home and to live with your parents until you marry.

 

And if women from my culture are "better" mothers, it's because they fully accept the mom role at the expense of everything else. Sex lives dry up fast, since mothers are expected to devote every ounce of energy to their children and treat it like their exclusive round-the-clock job.

 

Cultural attitudes are shifting and becoming more liberal, but those expectations I described still exist, and there are lingering effects. I have family members in their 20s and 30s who buy into most of what I wrote above, so it's not exactly going away anytime soon.

 

Sweet Jasmine,

This really is a great post thank you. Can you explain who these men cheat with??

 

For example, IF in hypothetical imaginary perfectly patriarchal country that OP would love to move to, 80% of the husbands claim to have cheated and only 10% of the wives claim to have cheated... WHO are these men cheating with?

Are there professional mistresses running around with 50 lovers each?

[flying]

Women do the same thing to men and just because a man does not want to be betrayed does not mean he is afraid of strong women.

 

She didn't say anything about strong women, in the post you quoted. Clarify?

[GooseChaser]

Straying in marriage is not exclusive to American women. This happens in other countries too, and among men as well.

[allina]

Women do the same thing to men and just because a man does not want to be betrayed does not mean he is afraid of strong women.

 

I agree. What I have the biggest issue with isn't even men v. women it's the lack of personal responsibility. People of both genders make sh*tty decisions when it comes to relationships. I feel like as adults people should be able to acknowledge their mistakes, learn how to make better decisions and move on. Instead I see so many people blaming everyone but themselves and spew hatred and make ridicules statements.

 

I get that the OP went through a crappy divorce. I understand that that sucks and that he may not have been treated fairly (though I of course do not know the facts). I just feel like a grown man should be able to voice anger and hurt over his divorce and how his experience is similar to the article without jumping to this "all American women" stuff.

[meerkat stew]

It's threads like this that are the reason for that thread.

 

Really, so this thread, which links an article that is not at all condemning of female cheating somehow leads to a thread with an OP full of insulting lies directed at specific people? (male posters on LS) Do explain that logic please. Or rather don't bother.

 

 

Did the woman who claimed to love well-hung men, say that *all* women only loved well-hung men? Did other women chime in and say that it was true, and that most of you wouldn't see them for dust, if a more well-endowed stud came along?

 

Most people of average and above intelligence and reading comprehension attribute an implicit "in my experience," or other such qualifier in front of generalizations, especially on informal internet forums such as this one.

 

For example, if someone says "Everyone drives pickup trucks in my area," people don't swoop in with absurdities such as "so you have seen all the cars in your area? so you know every single person in your area?" They don't swoop in like this because they don't want to appear abjectly STUPID. Even a child understands such statements as containing an implicit qualifier.

 

Some smart lefty (probably a man, probably a man who grew up watching Jerry Springer), ages ago, decided that teaching mimic-bot tactics to feminist indoctrinees was the way to go. So instead of what everyone else in the world, with respect to every other kind of generalizing statement in the world knows near instinctively, it has become fashionable among the fembots to counter any generalization (well at least any unfavorable generalization, they eat up the favorable ones... so hilariously vain) with the "generalization dance" that probably looks something like Church Lady's "superiority dance."

 

I.E. shout, "GENERALIZATION GENERALIZATION!" and then dance around gleefully as if they have said something of substance, when they have said nothing.

 

See, we men haven't had the luxury of watching so much Springer and Povich in our lives, so we haven't yet learned to argue in the "you go girl!" line of impenetrable un-logic.

[Woggle]

She didn't say anything about strong women, in the post you quoted. Clarify?

 

I was replying to another post as well. One poster said the reason women in her culture don't stray is because they are oppressed and dependent on men and then said that men like myself and others don't like American women because are afraid of strong women. My response is that just because a man does not want to be betrayed does not mean he wants a weak woman.

[GooseChaser]

Maybe part of it is that there are many independent women in America, and it gives them power and freedom to make good and bad decisions, while in other countries, men have most of the power in the relationship. Choosing to be unfaithful to their marriage is one of those bad decisions both men and women can make. Different people take marriage and its vows more or less seriously than others. People are different. Most people take their marriages seriously and have enough love and respect for their partners enough not to stray.

Edited September 14, 2010 by GooseChaser

[Anela]

Really, so this thread, which links an article that is not at all condemning of female cheating somehow leads to a thread with an OP full of insulting lies directed at specific people? (male posters on LS) Do explain that logic please. Or rather don't bother.

 

 

 

 

Most people of average and above intelligence and reading comprehension attribute an implicit "in my experience," or other such qualifier in front of generalizations, especially on informal internet forums such as this one.

 

For example, if someone says "Everyone drives pickup trucks in my area," people don't swoop in with absurdities such as "so you have seen all the cars in your area? so you know every single person in your area?" They don't swoop in like this because they don't want to appear abjectly STUPID. Even a child understands such statements as containing an implicit qualifier.

 

Some smart lefty (probably a man, probably a man who grew up watching Jerry Springer), ages ago, decided that teaching mimic-bot tactics to feminist indoctrinees was the way to go. So instead of what everyone else in the world, with respect to every other kind of generalizing statement in the world knows near instinctively, it has become fashionable among the fembots to counter any generalization (well at least any unfavorable generalization, they eat up the favorable ones... so hilariously vain) with the "generalization dance" that probably looks something like Church Lady's "superiority dance."

 

I.E. shout, "GENERALIZATION GENERALIZATION!" and then dance around gleefully as if they have said something of substance, when they have said nothing.

 

See, we men haven't had the luxury of watching so much Springer and Povich in our lives, so we haven't yet learned to argue in the "you go girl!" line of impenetrable un-logic.

 

I don't watch Springer or Povich, so I don't know what you're getting at there.

 

Which thread points to specific posters? The one I was thinking of, was the thread I posted in a few times, concerning the general tone of posts, like the ones I'm mentioned myself. And I haven't seen the thread you're talking about, when it comes to penis size - link, please?

 

I'm not a fembot, and in that other thread, you completely ignored my post about my sister and her boyfriend (soon-to-be husband), as well as the fact that the reason I turned someone down, was because of his douchebag behaviour. He was cute, but his looks did nothing to make up for the ******* that emerged.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Anela

[GooseChaser]

I'd think that most people, rather than cheating, would file for divorce first and get that taken care of. We have high rates of divorce, as is well-known, so that gives some agreement to that point. However, maybe some would choose to cheat first, and then that would ultimately lead to a divorce.

[meerkat stew]

Which thread points to specific posters?

 

The one about "male posters on LS turning me off men," reread the OP, it is a near continuous string of out-and-out lies about what men have posted here.

 

And I haven't seen the thread you're talking about, when it comes to penis size - link, please?

 

No, sorry, I don't have time to dig it up and link it, you go find it if it's that important or you don't believe what I'm saying, it probably died in early August. They come up every month or so here.

[Anela]

Also: not only can plenty of women be logical, plenty of men let their emotions get the better of them. The guy I mentioned above, let his jealousy kill his last relationship. He admitted that he should have trusted his ex, but he didn't.

 

I'm not chiming in with some generalization, drawn from a feminist handbook for dealing with stupidity from the opposite sex. My complaint about this thread has nothing to do with its ORIGINAL subject matter, and everything to do with the "American women are awful" line of BS that was worked in here by men like yourself.

[Anela]

It isn't that important to me, I just realized that I was arguing on behalf of women, when I hadn't seen the thread itself.

[theBrokenMuse]

Sure, censor away, that's actually the -preferred- method of shaming male POVs that wasn't mentioned in the linked post.

Oh Noez, not censorship!!! Seriously though, forums often have moderators and rules to prevent them from slipping down that slope into the kind of battle royale territory this place can sometimes embody (and it only does so because of the fact that the moderator isn't keeping up with all the threads). Letting people do whatever the hell they want on an open internet forum when you are catering to a diverse crowd of the walking wounded is just asking for trouble.

 

Sorry, you can't "shout down" people here as you would elsewhere so they can't even be heard. Thank god for the internet.

Yup, this is the internet. Even the biggest nutters that believe in reptilian overlords that are in cahoots with the gray aliens in order to take over the world can go out and create a website or a forum to spew their insanity. So what? Does that mean that every single forum needs to provide a soapbox for your particular hangup?

 

Men can actually speak here as opposed to facing a vicious band of shrieking harridans in person.

We have had to listen to you without any possibility of counterpoint due to such shrieking for decades now, get used to listening to us.

You can talk all you want. If people don't see the merit in what you have to say that is on no one but yourself.

 

The OP topic is every bit as legit on a dating forum as the endless "look at me, cry for me, give me attention" threads by certain females here who create massive threads posting every noxious piece of minutiae about whatever is going through their heads at the moment

Threads about themselves are relevant for this site's intended purpose as it can help them gain insight and introspection into their own situations rather unlike simply trying to take wild jabs at demonizing entire groups of people. I mean if that's your thing then have at it hoss. Every thing has it's own place and there are tons of anti-whateveryouhate forums, blogs ect. for people who want to create posts chocked full of outlandishly hate filled diatribe about faceless groups of individuals en mass. This simply should not be the place for it.

 

But those kinds of threads, which often include REAMS and REAMS of unfair characterizations of men don't create a "bad atmosphere" do they?

 

Um, didn't you just get done bitching at someone else for putting words in your mouth?

Edited September 14, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[welikeincrowds]

I will never understand why people allow other people on the internet to troll them into arguing gender issues on a messageboard. It's a gigantic waste of time, for reasons that have almost nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

I mean, just look at this position.

 

We have had to listen to you without any possibility of counterpoint due to such shrieking for decades now, get used to listening to us.

 

Does this look like someone who is willing to listen? No! Isn't that ironic? But in fact, he's telling you outright that he is not. These are the words of a person who is butthurt, and the butthurt are not worthy of blame or defamation, because their actions are understandable; they're just acting out in an effort to cool their melting butts. And why shouldn't they?! I would too, with a butt so clearly and violently aflame!

 

Because on the contrary, are you really willing to say "Hmm, I suppose women really should be more silent on some issues!" Is that a position you could ever consider hearing? In a true discourse, you would answer, without a doubt, "Yes, of course! If that is the truth." But that's so unfathomable; the very nature of the argument would prevent you from considering such a thing. So don't bother! Accept that this issue will never be answered, and certainly not in an earth-shattering, press-worthy thread on http://www.loveshack.org; fight only the battles that affect the war; and let this thread die in peace.

 

(That's what I say, anyway, but I'm not so naive to think that this thread doesn't have at least another 2 pages in it.)

[Anela]

LOL at your line in parentheses.

 

I realize that it can be a waste of time, he just caught me in the wrong mood.

[flying]

I will never understand why people allow other people on the internet to troll them into arguing gender issues on a messageboard. It's a gigantic waste of time, for reasons that have almost nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

I mean, just look at this position.

 

 

 

Does this look like someone who is willing to listen? No! Isn't that ironic? But in fact, he's telling you outright that he is not. These are the words of a person who is butthurt, and the butthurt are not worthy of blame or defamation, because their actions are understandable; they're just acting out in an effort to cool their melting butts. And why shouldn't they?! I would too, with a butt so clearly and violently aflame!

 

Because on the contrary, are you really willing to say "Hmm, I suppose women really should be more silent on some issues!" Is that a position you could ever consider hearing? In a true discourse, you would answer, without a doubt, "Yes, of course! If that is the truth." But that's so unfathomable; the very nature of the argument would prevent you from considering such a thing. So don't bother! Accept that this issue will never be answered, and certainly not in an earth-shattering, press-worthy thread on www.loveshack.org; fight only the battles that affect the war; and let this thread die in peace.

 

(That's what I say, anyway, but I'm not so naive to think that this thread doesn't have at least another 2 pages in it.)

 

OMG, this post was so sane I went blind for a minute.

[GooseChaser]

I will never understand why people allow other people on the internet to troll them into arguing gender issues on a messageboard. It's a gigantic waste of time, for reasons that have almost nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

I mean, just look at this position.

 

 

 

Does this look like someone who is willing to listen? No! Isn't that ironic? But in fact, he's telling you outright that he is not. These are the words of a person who is butthurt, and the butthurt are not worthy of blame or defamation, because their actions are understandable; they're just acting out in an effort to cool their melting butts. And why shouldn't they?! I would too, with a butt so clearly and violently aflame!

 

Because on the contrary, are you really willing to say "Hmm, I suppose women really should be more silent on some issues!" Is that a position you could ever consider hearing? In a true discourse, you would answer, without a doubt, "Yes, of course! If that is the truth." But that's so unfathomable; the very nature of the argument would prevent you from considering such a thing. So don't bother! Accept that this issue will never be answered, and certainly not in an earth-shattering, press-worthy thread on www.loveshack.org; fight only the battles that affect the war; and let this thread die in peace.

 

(That's what I say, anyway, but I'm not so naive to think that this thread doesn't have at least another 2 pages in it.)

You made me laugh, in a good way, with your funny words. Thank you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Most people of average and above intelligence and reading comprehension attribute an implicit "in my experience," or other such qualifier in front of generalizations, especially on informal internet forums such as this one.

 

For example, if someone says "Everyone drives pickup trucks in my area," people don't swoop in with absurdities such as "so you have seen all the cars in your area? so you know every single person in your area?" They don't swoop in like this because they don't want to appear abjectly STUPID. Even a child understands such statements as containing an implicit qualifier.

 

 

 

REALLY? Wow. I guess that all the average and above average folks in my Masters program (English literature, at a darn prestigious University) didn't get that memo.

 

News flash! "Everyone drives pickup trucks" is not comparable to "Women are greedy," "men are pigs" or "Black people are good dancers."

 

Most of us are aware of this.

[AverageJoe]

I have known men who dont cheat at all. They just avoid going home to some American women all together.

 

Guys that avoid going home to listen to the female nagger, the screamer, the bitch, the one that likes to spend all of your money, yeah many American women. The woman who shuts down and stops providing sexual needs. Men who just feel like they are hostages.

Feel like beaten dogs, and feel they have made the biggest mistake of their life. He is just stuck!

 

When the whistle blows (or whatever equivalent) at five pm when you have to get in your car and face, that! Maybe drive around the block, stop off for a beer, maybe stop off at the electronics store wishing you could get that new plasma only to realize she has spent every penny you have. The point is, they find every means possible not to go home to hell.

I know a guy right now that finds himself parked in a car, not doing anything bad at all, just avoids going home to that. Just to minimize the exposure of the craziness of what might be waiting at home. I bet someone reading this knows a guy like that too.

 

Divorce would cost too much, maybe they have kids, or in some cases afraid she will burn the house down. He has told her to get out and she wont get out. Or maybe he is simply a pussy with no testicles any longer. Its a damn shame.

 

I have avoided that at all costs. So yeah, not all men cheat as this thread has been turned against the OP with very little dialogue in regards to logic.

 

I didnt read one post here that said; Hmmm is this true? Let me look into this and give it some rational thought. I have mostly seen irrational and emotional responses.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Somebody keeps using the word "fembot" as a derogatory term for a woman who, I gather from his ranting posts, has an education, perhaps a job and requires equal partnership with a man with whom she's in a relationship.

 

Perhaps this fellow LSer comes from some remote nook of this fine country of the U S A ... the pop culture term "fembot" is usually used to refer to just the kind of woman I believe he years for.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-19/rise-of-the-fembots/

[Woggle]

I have known men who dont cheat at all. They just avoid going home to some American women all together.

 

Guys that avoid going home to listen to the female nagger, the screamer, the bitch, the one that likes to spend all of your money, yeah many American women. The woman who shuts down and stops providing sexual needs. Men who just feel like they are hostages.

Feel like beaten dogs, and feel they have made the biggest mistake of their life. He is just stuck!

 

When the whistle blows (or whatever equivalent) at five pm when you have to get in your car and face, that! Maybe drive around the block, stop off for a beer, maybe stop off at the electronics store wishing you could get that new plasma only to realize she has spent every penny you have. The point is, they find every means possible not to go home to hell.

I know a guy right now that finds himself parked in a car, not doing anything bad at all, just avoids going home to that. Just to minimize the exposure of the craziness of what might be waiting at home. I bet someone reading this knows a guy like that too.

 

Divorce would cost too much, maybe they have kids, or in some cases afraid she will burn the house down. He has told her to get out and she wont get out. Or maybe he is simply a pussy with no testicles any longer. Its a damn shame.

 

I have avoided that at all costs. So yeah, not all men cheat as this thread has been turned against the OP with very little dialogue in regards to logic.

 

I didnt read one post here that said; Hmmm is this true? Let me look into this and give it some rational thought. I have mostly seen irrational and emotional responses.

 

 

I know a few men like that as well. My boss stays in his office sometimes until ten at night listening to his iPod because when he goes home he will face her wrath. I can literally see him tensing up when it is time to go home.

[meerkat stew]

"American women are awful" line of BS that was worked in here by men like yourself.

 

See there it is. Any attempt to question typical female argument tactics is met with something like the above, or rather cite please where I have said anything like "American women are awful."

 

Gender feminists, as opposed to equity/rule of law feminists are what is awful in the U.S., I stand by that, sure.