American Women: Why some stray in marriage

[Untouchable_Fire]

I saw this debate kind of developing in another thread and rather than do a complete threadjack I thought I would just open up a new place for this discussion. Here is a news article discussing the lack of overall fidelity found in American Women.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/2004/07/11/the-secret-lives-of-wives.html

 

It tries to be a bit salacious and upbeat, but it pretty much fits the overall experience of living in the U.S. I don't really see as there being a debate here. I love my country... and I've met a lot of great women here. However as sad as it is, for the most part they are all amoral cheats compared to women in other countries.

 

Now... I can already hear the cries of "men cheat too", and that's a valid point, but men in the U.S. already cheat at lower rates than men in other countries... while the women there commit adultery at a MUCH lower rate. (I'm excluding Western Europe)

 

Also... I don't think women in the U.S. are good mothers. I think that one might be worth debating.

[Jesica]

You can't say like this that american women are not good, since they are a little bit busy in her professional life so some times these kind of problem comes. Yes there are some lady who miss her personal responsibility but you can't say same for all american women.

[that girl]

I am amazed by the hubris of anyone who can divide their country into good men and bad women (or bad men and good women). As if both didn't come from the same culture. And as if it isn't a reflection on the poster to bash an entire gender.

 

Interesting pick with the Newsweek article Untouchable Fire. It actually says

 

Couples therapists estimate that among their clientele, the number [of women who cheat] is close to 30 to 40 percent, compared with 50 percent of men, and the gap is almost certainly closing

 

So American men still cheat more than American women. Yet you feel comfortable asking if American women are trash and bemoaning how few decent women there are.

 

I don't see any statistics on men and women in either countries in the article.

 

Now... I can already hear the cries of "men cheat too", and that's a valid point, but men in the U.S. already cheat at lower rates than men in other countries... while the women there commit adultery at a MUCH lower rate.

So you argument is that even though American women cheat less than American men, they still fail in comparission to foriegn women who don't cheat even though their partners cheat even more than American men. You think that American women should be so grateful that only half of American men cheat and keep it in their pants.

[jamesum]

All women are costly, but American women are even more expensive.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You can't say like this that american women are not good, since they are a little bit busy in her professional life so some times these kind of problem comes. Yes there are some lady who miss her personal responsibility but you can't say same for all american women.

 

Anyone who chooses their professional life over their family is pretty much trash in my book. Money should never be that important. That goes for men too. I can understand in short term bursts to get financially solvent... but that's it.

 

Ok... lets say 65% of women in America are worthless as wives and mothers. I think that is a fair number. So that leaves 35% as quality.

t

Now... I just need some kind of test to differentiate the two.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I am amazed by the hubris of anyone who can divide their country into good men and bad women (or bad men and good women). As if both didn't come from the same culture. And as if it isn't a reflection on the poster to bash an entire gender.

 

I like that you used a word like hubris. I rarely see it used nowdays.

 

Interesting pick with the Newsweek article Untouchable Fire. It actually says

So American men still cheat more than American women. Yet you feel comfortable asking if American women are trash and bemoaning how few decent women there are.

 

I think if you look at data collected by therapists... the rate of female adultery currently exceeds 60%.

 

So you argument is that even though American women cheat less than American men, they still fail in comparission to foriegn women who don't cheat even though their partners cheat even more than American men. You think that American women should be so grateful that only half of American men cheat and keep it in their pants.

 

Pretty much. You can't complain too hard when you've got it better than all the other women. At least you can get all his current and future earnings for years when you divorce him.

[JL Hancock]

you wish to move where your woman dont cheat back on you? usa with women almost equal to men is a bad thing? then why do you call it bad for women and it makes bad moms? maybe they do same as men too. they do what men do but men dont want them doing this thing the same. why its only for men if it is bad? is for men to be bad father and in marrying?

 

my father was for us all to look to. he did not cheat. if he had done this way then we learn this way. saying women should not to do same is to ask them not to see.

[Woggle]

I just love the excuses they come up with yet men looking at porn is a major sin.

[BS76]

Western women are indeed a huge liability due to the advent of Marriage 2.0, which got it's beginnings with the introduction of no-fault divorce. Clearly there are instances where it has been beneficial, but overall it's had a huge negative impact on society. Combined with female supremacy, aka modern feminism, by way of socialism and our birth rates are plunging and our out of wedlock births are skyrocketing. Consider the fact that being raised by a single parent is the #1 predictor of drug use, teenage pregnancy, dropping out of school, and a whole host of other social ills.

Edited September 14, 2010 by BS76

[theBrokenMuse]

Anyone who chooses their professional life over their family is pretty much trash in my book. Money should never be that important. That goes for men too. I can understand in short term bursts to get financially solvent... but that's it.

Two income households are the norm in many western countries. Most women HAVE to work in the US unless their husband holds an extremely good job, anyone telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something or is an idiot... take your pick.

 

Ok... lets say 65% of women in America are worthless as wives and mothers.

Let's not. Pulling numbers out of your arse that are based on your your obvious dislike and vitriol is as pointless as this thread is divisive.

 

 

Also... I don't think women in the U.S. are good mothers.

Did you have something in mind other than taking a jab at the females here when you made blanketed statements about how American Women are bad mothers as you did in the OP?

Edited September 14, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[JL Hancock]

my friend cheats in his marrying. he does not do things with his kids. his wife has to do it for him. He is not bad in marrying? he is not bad for father? it is only bad if his wife will do the same?

 

she says to me once that she thinks to do it. maybe he will see his ways if he feels it or maybe she will not see it so bad like he does not. she wants to know to feel better.

 

i think he is like you and he will see her bad in marrying and mother too.

 

i like being here in this country. you can be how you want. why do some people from here only want this way for some? you dont like it for all and call it bad. is not bad for only you but bad for others? i think this is a lying way to say its bad only for women. it is like my work. it is work good for me but not for my boss. i dont like my boss way of seeing. i feel good in my work but see my boss and feel bad in my work after. he thinks like you that some are for this work but not all. he thinks he is not for my work because he is from here.

you think its not for women because you are not women.

[benmac360]

What stood out in this article was the glaring lack of accountability these women displayed. They lament their husbands are inattentive or not affectionate thus they had to cheat, but did they give their husbands the same attention they do to their lovers now before straying? No remorse or responsibility for their horrible choices was shown - its simply "Well, I do what I want and damn the consequences".

 

Maybe their husbands feel the same way about their marriages - when was the last time "Marisol" paid her husband a compliment? I know there are men that are guilty of the same offenses, but that old idea "if the man cheats, he is a dog, but if the woman strays, its the husbands fault" is pure fiction these days.

[JL Hancock]

i will try to say this right

 

one women has husband that cheat and she say men are dogs

 

other woman has husband that cheat and she dose not say men are dogs. she say what is so good in cheats? i will cheat and find out.

 

some other woman has husband that maybe not cheats but dont be sweet to her now. she say maybe i find someone sweet.

 

it is not to mean all the woman say men who cheat are dogs.

 

you take one woman says that and think all women say it. why?

 

i ask one woman to see me and she say no. it is not to mean all woman say no to see me. you know that but dont see it for other times. why?

[Untouchable_Fire]

i will try to say this right

one women has husband that cheat and she say men are dogs

other woman has husband that cheat and she dose not say men are dogs. she say what is so good in cheats? i will cheat and find out.

some other woman has husband that maybe not cheats but dont be sweet to her now. she say maybe i find someone sweet.

it is not to mean all the woman say men who cheat are dogs.

you take one woman says that and think all women say it. why?

i ask one woman to see me and she say no. it is not to mean all woman say no to see me. you know that but dont see it for other times. why?

 

Ok... you show me the test that proves which woman is truthful and which is not.

 

I would not worry and just leave a cheating wife, but here she gets over half of everything I own, plus a huge chunk of what I make in the future.

 

Not to say all here cheat. I've met one or two that dont, but most do and if married I have to pay them for the privilege.

[EasyHeart]

There seems to be a little anger in this thread. . . .

[JL Hancock]

when i marry i will not cheat. my wife will not think what is good with cheats? i will help with babys. my wife will not think what is good with not help with babys? and i will be stay sweet. my wife will not think what if some man will be sweet for her?

 

what do you own in your marry that is not for you wife? if you leave her you want all things? even what she did for them to you both have? maybe you are confusing to me. do you see that she should have nothing as to punish? maybe if she has nothing and give nothing for you it is right. maybe if you do help with babys you dont need help from her. maybe it is the way for you having much money to do with no help if you want all and babys too and not need help from her?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Two income households are the norm in many western countries. Most women HAVE to work in the US unless their husband holds an extremely good job, anyone telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something or is an idiot... take your pick.

Let's not. Pulling numbers out of your arse that are based on your your obvious dislike and vitriol is as pointless as this thread is divisive.

Did you have something in mind other than taking a jab at the females here when you made blanketed statements about how American Women are bad mothers as you did in the OP?

 

Job pay is based on supply and demand just like everything else. If a massive amount of people decided to leave the workforce, any job type hit by this would have to increase pay to keep or attract new employees. It takes 2 incomes today because we have chosen to flood the labor market.

 

I didn't make that number up. It's from a research lady... Shapiro something. Over 60% of U.S. women cheat, and considering that most lie about it... the number is probably much higher.

 

Not really. "Bad Mother" is a really subjective term. To some the only way you can be a bad mother is to drown you kids in the tub... and even then most media here just blame the husband. (Yates)

 

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=naughty_mommies

 

 

 

There seems to be a little anger in this thread. . . .

 

Anger with the system not any one person in particular.

 

If cheats got nothing in divorce here... I would consider this a moot point.

[JL Hancock]

in my country some men cheat and their wive thinks what is good with cheats? with babys and work it is no time to see what is good with cheats. husband is not help with babys. his time go to work and cheat and not work and babys.

 

some women think to go here. maybe husband here will cheat too but here there is classes. they want the classes and want the babys to have classes so it is better than home. if they go to classes it not as bad if he cheat. maybe he take classes and makes much money so they can go to classes and be with babys. then they can have husband gone with cheats and take care of babys for they can make much money alone after classes.

[flying]

Job pay is based on supply and demand just like everything else. If a massive amount of people decided to leave the workforce, any job type hit by this would have to increase pay to keep or attract new employees. It takes 2 incomes today because we have chosen to flood the labor market.

 

I didn't make that number up. It's from a research lady... Shapiro something. Over 60% of U.S. women cheat, and considering that most lie about it... the number is probably much higher.

 

Not really. "Bad Mother" is a really subjective term. To some the only way you can be a bad mother is to drown you kids in the tub... and even then most media here just blame the husband. (Yates)

 

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=naughty_mommies

 

 

 

 

 

Anger with the system not any one person in particular.

 

If cheats got nothing in divorce here... I would consider this a moot point.

 

You'll be interested to know, of course that this "research lady" you speak of got that 60% from a survey she did on...wait for it...craigslist.

 

most lie, most media, most this, most that. Meh.

 

...and honestly, I just don't have anything else to add to this thread. Meh.

[Untouchable_Fire]

when i marry i will not cheat. my wife will not think what is good with cheats? i will help with babys. my wife will not think what is good with not help with babys? and i will be stay sweet. my wife will not think what if some man will be sweet for her?

what do you own in your marry that is not for you wife? if you leave her you want all things? even what she did for them to you both have? maybe you are confusing to me. do you see that she should have nothing as to punish? maybe if she has nothing and give nothing for you it is right. maybe if you do help with babys you dont need help from her. maybe it is the way for you having much money to do with no help if you want all and babys too and not need help from her?

 

I don't think you have much experience with women in the U.S.

 

You think that by doing all that she won't cheat? Very naive. You don't control if she cheats or not. A tiny few don't, and it's because they are very good women... the best actually.

 

in my country some men cheat and their wive thinks what is good with cheats? with babys and work it is no time to see what is good with cheats. husband is not help with babys. his time go to work and cheat and not work and babys.

some women think to go here. maybe husband here will cheat too but here there is classes. they want the classes and want the babys to have classes so it is better than home. if they go to classes it not as bad if he cheat. maybe he take classes and makes much money so they can go to classes and be with babys. then they can have husband gone with cheats and take care of babys for they can make much money alone after classes.

 

Women here don't like their children... they complain all day about how terrible the kids are... want time for themselves instead. I don't think you know many... they are very very selfish. It gets worse with each new generation. Not sure where it will lead... but I think it may look much like what the African American community faces today.

[sweetjasmine]

In my family's culture, married women don't stray because they're too busy cleaning up after their husband and five children and too full of resentment and bitterness to ever want to touch another human being sexually ever again.

 

They tolerate their husbands banging mistresses, and both the husbands and wives tolerate their marriage for as long as they have to because divorce is disgraceful and will destroy their children even if their children are adults. "For the kids" really means "for the kids", and it's for life. Divorce wasn't even a legal option in many countries in our part of the world until fairly recently. Chile only legalized it in 2004. And even though it's now an option, there's still a cultural stigma attached to it, especially among the older generations and among religious people.

 

Wives also judge their husbands' worth by how well they support the family: if there are financial problems, he's not fulfilling his role as a man, and if he doesn't fix it, he's a loser and a failure. It's his job to give the family whatever it needs and then some. Wives expect to be able to buy whatever they need. Husbands' salaries are considered family property.

 

(Incidentally, this is why I laugh when I read about how South American women are so much better because they're not materialistic golddiggers like skanky American b-tches. Right, because everyone in South America lives in a mud hut and would be so thrilled about living in a 2 bedroom apartment that they'd never ask for anything more. Sure.)

 

As for parenting, the American "18 and you're out the door and off to a college far, far away" and "I'm sending my kids to summer camp every year" attitudes are considered cold and uncaring. The right thing to do is to study near home and to live with your parents until you marry.

 

And if women from my culture are "better" mothers, it's because they fully accept the mom role at the expense of everything else. Sex lives dry up fast, since mothers are expected to devote every ounce of energy to their children and treat it like their exclusive round-the-clock job.

 

Cultural attitudes are shifting and becoming more liberal, but those expectations I described still exist, and there are lingering effects. I have family members in their 20s and 30s who buy into most of what I wrote above, so it's not exactly going away anytime soon.

[allina]

You'll be interested to know, of course that this "research lady" you speak of got that 60% from a survey she did on...wait for it...craigslist.

 

most lie, most media, most this, most that. Meh.

 

...and honestly, I just don't have anything else to add to this thread. Meh.

 

Plus, just because there is an article out there about something doesn't make it a fact. You can find an article about just about anything to support just about any argument.

[Stung]

There seems to be a little anger in this thread. . . .

 

Yeah, just a little.

 

What can I say, UF? I'm sorry you're so bitter. As an American wife and mother, I don't appreciate the little jabs you feel the need to take at all of us, and I think your logic is wildly unsound. There's no point in actually trying to engage somebody in debate when they're making up statistics and presenting their subjective emotions as objective fact. I hope you feel better soon.

[Mme. Chaucer]

How bitter, sad, tired and downright pathetic.

 

OP, go ahead and move to another country where the women are "quality" and get yourself one of them, and be happy.

 

There are plenty of men here in the USA who love us liberated, educated, socially active and aware, interesting, intelligent American women. Women like that would not be interested in a guy like you anyway.

 

By the way, a woman caring deeply about her profession and perhaps choosing to focus on that rather than breeding does not render her devoid of "quality." It also doesn't mean that she cares more for money than family. Perhaps she is dedicated to her work. Anyway, no need for you to be concerned about women like that; again, you don't like them and they certainly wouldn't take a second look at you.

[Mangomonkey]

Truth is. Women cheat. Men cheat. Women promote cheating. And so do men. So if your want to deny that than your very naive but you really gotta ask yourself. What can I do about it? my answer. nothing. So why worry about it?

 

Me personally so many people cheat for so many different reason i just stopped caring about what other people are doing in other places and worry more about myself and where i gotta go. And if a women cheated on me (and they have) I know why and learned why.

 

From what i gather most women cheat because of ****ty husbands (i liked to think so). So my solution. Try not to be a ****ty husband if i ever get married and well be the best person i can be. Not only for her but for myself. Cause if im happy with myself i know i can brighten up someone elses day. But i dont intend to get married but you never know.

 

Women cheat for other reasons to. Sometimes just lust or dumb reasons. But hey if someone cheat on you then you realize what kinda person they was. So if someone cheat on me. they was trash from the beginning. And i probably didnt want to see it.

 

Same goes for women toward cheating men. Just stop caring about it so much cause you cant change someone elses opinion. In all of loveshack there are two pieces of advice that has been the most useful.

 

The one who cares less in a relationship is the one who is dominate. And the things that are not in your power dont worry about it cause if you cant do nothing to change it. It is pointless to stress over it.

 

My 2 cents