My faith in women is somewhat restored

[meerkat stew]

so hiding your true feelings/self from your SO is pleasant?

 

Will bet you that Woggle treats his wife with respect and kindness. Nothing in his beliefs about women generally would preclude that. I know happy couples with different beliefs who don't grind out their differences to the nth degree. Lots is better left unsaid, and this isn't the same as keeping secrets.

[Pyro]

Will bet you that Woggle treats his wife with respect and kindness. Nothing in his beliefs about women generally would preclude that. I know happy couples with different beliefs who don't grind out their differences to the nth degree. Lots is better left unsaid, and this isn't the same as keeping secrets.

 

For his sake of sanity I think opening up is his best option. Coming on here to vent like he says he does is obviously not helping much.

 

IMO by him not being honest with her he is disrespecting her by not trusting her fully.

 

If he can't be honest with his best friend (wife) then what is the point?

[meerkat stew]

For his sake of sanity I think opening up is his best option. Coming on here to vent like he says he does is obviously not helping much.

 

IMO by him not being honest with her he is disrespecting her by not trusting her fully.

 

If he can't be honest with his best friend (wife) then what is the point?

 

Opening up here is just fine, and I don't find his sanity in question at all. He made a thread stating that his faith in women is somewhat restored, even though the facts of the thread are less than wholesome as far as his friend's conduct.

 

"Honey does this dress look good on me?" "Honey do you like my new hair?" "Honey do you think that woman is good looking?" etc. I doubt the -right- answer to those questions is the completely honest one. There's a difference between opening up some, basic honesty and spilling guts, and IME that distinction is one every man needs to be mindful about around the women in his life. Same goes for women.

[Pyro]

Opening up here is just fine, and I don't find his sanity in question at all. He made a thread stating that his faith in women is somewhat restored, even though the facts of the thread are less than wholesome as far as his friend's conduct.

 

"Honey does this dress look good on me?" "Honey do you like my new hair?" "Honey do you think that woman is good looking?" etc. I doubt the -right- answer to those questions is the completely honest one. There's a difference between opening up some, basic honesty and spilling guts, and IME that distinction is one every man needs to be mindful about around the women in his life. Same goes for women.

 

Going by his past patterns he will fire back next week claiming that all women are evil.

 

Something like his trust in her is something that I think he would benefit from by talking to her. His time on here isn't helping him and neither is his time with a therapist (assuming he is being honest about it) but obviously ha has to have the want and desire to get past his insecurities and from I see on here he doesn't have the desire to do so. So I think he should try something different which is to open up to her.

[Woggle]

So if I do open up to her how would I go about it and actually have it go well?

[Pyro]

So if I do open up to her how would I go about it and actually have it go well?

 

Whether it goes well or not isn't up to me to decide. Its how she is going to respond.

 

You come clean and tell her that the reason you have spent countless hours here is because of the insecurities (this is where you tell her of your mistrust in her because of your past and because of what you choose to read here online)

 

You assure her of your feelings for her and reassure her that you want to get past the insecurities in hopes of living a healthy life (not sure or not if that is what you want) and then I think you should suggest taking her to therapy with you. Having someone there to support you would really benefit you.

[Woggle]

I will try and work up the courage to do it. She knows about my issues because I broke off our engagement before we married but she took me back. I just have a serious of opening up to a woman because the past times I have done it it has not turned out well. What kind of women laughs at a man for crying at a friend's funeral. It angers me just thinking about it. I am starting to think that much of this is anger I never allowed myself to feel through the years exploding right now. I think of things and I just get in such a foul mood.

[Pyro]

I will try and work up the courage to do it. She knows about my issues because I broke off our engagement before we married but she took me back. I just have a serious of opening up to a woman because the past times I have done it it has not turned out well. What kind of women laughs at a man for crying at a friend's funeral. It angers me just thinking about it. I am starting to think that much of this is anger I never allowed myself to feel through the years exploding right now. I think of things and I just get in such a foul mood.

 

and its the same thing when you go out of your way to read threads and posts about women betraying men, whether its here or another message board. That type of behavior will never go away and the only way for you to not let it get to you is to stop reading it.

 

If she were to turn on you for you opening up to her then you get to see the real her and you won't have to be married to someone like her anymore, which is good for you.

 

The fact that she took you back makes me think that she will support you throughout your issues.

[Woggle]

I guess you are right. I just to work up the courage to do it.

 

I was watching this episode of Hoarders the other night and there was a hawaiian couple and the husband was exactly the kind of man I want to avoid being. His kids were living in utter filth that endangered their health yet instead of standing up to his wife who was the hoarder and getting them the hell out of there he cowered in the corner and cried. That is the same thing my father did when my mother would go on one of her rampages which of course made her even more angry. Any sign of a man showing vulnerability around made her treat them less than human.

[Nikki Sahagin]

Somebody like me should not be at a woman's shelter but I do realize there are women that go through hell as well. It is funny that I never had much anger while the abuse from my mother and ex was going on but as soon as I finally had some peace I am just full of rage and I can't seem to stop it.

 

Why do you have no place there? Because you would not feel empathy for them? I think someone like you is perfect to help other people. It would help you get out some of your poison. The opposite of hating is loving, if you can care for the people you fear/distrust you may learn something.

 

Most people don't feel too much whilst they are being abused. You get used to it and go on coping. Afterwards, once we readjust to a world without abuse, all the built up resentment and powerlessness comes spilling out. That's what you are struggling with now, bottled up emotion from the past.

 

I think the rage is a comfort to you. Because obviously you feel clued in and aware now, but really you have a heightened sense of paranoia because in your life, that is your experience, but that is not the experience of everyone in the world. I don't blame you for what you think of women given your personal, subjective experiences, but we all have different experiences and if we only judged people based on that, which most do, we would block out a whole lot of people who are good and kind.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I am already doing three and I can tell he is getting frustrated with me. Show me a way to give up this mentality without becoming a doormat like my father was and I will be the first in line. I refuse to end up like him and so many other men I know though.

 

So there is a second fear here, fear of becoming your father.

He was your role model of masculinity and you saw him as weak, abused and ineffectual.

Your female role model was exploitative and abusive.

I think strangely enough, you identify MORE with your mother, because you saw her as the powerful figure, and you do not want to be the weak figure your father was.

So you have copied her hatred and anger and imitated it long enough that it has become you. And while behaving this way, thinking this way, feeling this way, you feel strong and safe.

[Nikki Sahagin]

You are making the mistake that the media and politics are accurate mirrors of the real world, they are far from it.

 

Moreover, why focus on the victimization culture of modern women? The entire leftist media already does that in its efforts to polarize the sexes and paint all men as if we consist of the lowest common denominator of our gender. Women get no such negative media/political treatment, the opposite in fact, and most of the seemingly bitter male backlash seen here and elsewhere is due to that simple fact.

 

You misunderstand me. I'm not trying to say that women suffer more than men. I am saying, for Woggle, who seems to think that only men suffer, it is important for him to realise that this is just not true. I would suggest the same to a woman who says 'women are always the victims, men are always the bullies who hurt us.' I would tell them to get involved with things where men are the victims and the vulnerable ones, so that we can see that we are not as separate as we once thought.

 

Its really not a battle of the sexes; its just a fact of life that ALL people have the capacity to hurt another.

 

But as Woggle is stuck focusing on women being the bad guys of the situation, I think it is necessary for him to see things from the other side. Then his fear/anxiety/mistrust of women in general may diminish. Right now he has this image built up in his head of what a woman is and only reality can counteract that.

 

Also though I would agree that the media sensationalise things, many stories stand alone, for instance there was a youtube video a while ago in England of a group of boys gang raping one girl. Clearly that's an evil male act committed against a woman. I'm just trying to explain to Woggle that what he has to fear isn't women, it's human's in general. There are bad men and bad women.

[Nikki Sahagin]

My father has looked me in the eye and apologized so I do forgive him but my mother still thinks of herself as the victim and considers herself a strong feminist because of it. She was horribly abused by her father and refuses to be victim to any man so she became an abuser herself.

 

Can you see the pattern here?

Your grandfather abused your mother, your mother abused you. You have not abused anyone but you clearly carry a lot of the attitude; the anger, distrust, victimhood, depression.

 

Clearly your mother was an abuse victim herself and possibly mentally ill. What she did was not right, but she was sick. You can't form your opinions of all women on the mentally ill and abused example that is your mother.

 

You and here are more alike than you'd believe.

 

The cycle of abuse can go on or YOU can be the one to say enough.

 

If you ever have daughters, do you think you could potentially carry an angry/distrustful attitude onto them? I don't mean that you'd abuse them, but would you think certain things about them because they were girls?

 

This story kind of reminds me of 'A child called It' - the little boy David who was abused by his mother. It was a cathartic experience for him to write about his abuse and share it. He is happily married and has children now. And his wife knows all about what's happened. You don't need to suffer alone. Your mother can't hurt you anymore, except in your head. You can live a normal life and clearly what you feel about women is hurting you, or you wouldn't feel the need to share it with us. I really do feel for you Woggle, abuse hits people harder than they'd ever know but you CAN do this; you are strong and brave enough to get through this.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Nikki Sahagin

[Woggle]

I see the pattern but I am not an abuser. I might withhold a part of myself but I have never abused a woman and for this reason I will never have kids. I might be somewhat like my mother but at least I don't victimize innocent people.

 

I know women are abused and victimized as well but we live in a society where it is men=victimizer and women=victim and even if some men are victims they are getting their just desserts. It seems that no matter what the actual story is that is how it gets spinned. There was a thread on here recently where a man said he was physically abused by his wife and some people actually asked what he did to provoke it. Can you imagine anybody asking that if the situation were reversed. It's these little things I notice now that anger me so much.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I see the pattern but I am not an abuser. I might withhold a part of myself but I have never abused a woman and for this reason I will never have kids. I might be somewhat like my mother but at least I don't victimize innocent people.

 

I know women are abused and victimized as well but we live in a society where it is men=victimizer and women=victim and even if some men are victims they are getting their just desserts. It seems that no matter what the actual story is that is how it gets spinned. There was a thread on here recently where a man said he was physically abused by his wife and some people actually asked what he did to provoke it. Can you imagine anybody asking that if the situation were reversed. It's these little things I notice now that anger me so much.

 

Well unfortunately despite 'equality' there are numerous double standards that exist between men and women. This is one of the double standards where men suffer negatively, but there are also situations where women suffer negatively at the hands of double standards. We are far from equality and I find that very sad and I definitely think that men need far more support especially in matters such as this. It truly is disgusting in an 'equal' society - what a lie.

 

I hope you didn't think I meant to say that you would become an abuser yourself. I met a woman once who claimed she would never have children because she had been abused as a child even though she wanted them dearly - she was afraid she would fail as a mother because of her past. It really is sad. I think those that have been abused can make the most caring and beautiful parents.

[Green]

Well unfortunately despite 'equality' there are numerous double standards that exist between men and women. This is one of the double standards where men suffer negatively, but there are also situations where women suffer negatively at the hands of double standards. We are far from equality and I find that very sad and I definitely think that men need far more support especially in matters such as this. It truly is disgusting in an 'equal' society - what a lie.

 

I hope you didn't think I meant to say that you would become an abuser yourself. I met a woman once who claimed she would never have children because she had been abused as a child even though she wanted them dearly - she was afraid she would fail as a mother because of her past. It really is sad. I think those that have been abused can make the most caring and beautiful parents.

 

woggle is a very traumatized person if he doesn't want kids it should probably just be that way.

 

Personaly though I think his views on things are often correct its just he's so terrified by the realities of his views.

 

The truth is YES his wife could cheat on him. But he doesn't have to be so scared of it happening all the time.

[GooseChaser]

I think you see a lot of the bad things about people, Woggle, and it is good to be able to do that. Maybe it would help you to try to get to know some women as friends and try to find their good qualities. While a negative viewpoint can help a person stay grounded in reality, it helps in life to have a positive perspective sometimes too.

 

I thought someone had a good point earlier, that people who have negative experiences with people often go on to be attracted in the future to more of the same. Try to seek out good people, Woggle, male and female!

Edited September 8, 2010 by GooseChaser

[Woggle]

I realize that double standards affect women as well but it is easier to see things when they actually affect you and that goes for both genders.

 

I honestly think it is best for me not to be a parent. I dread the fact that I might have a daughter and become like my mother. Also I know my wife and I live a life that is not compatible with parenthood. She has no regrets marrying because we are both adults who can take of ourselves but we both agree that we enjoy being able to go away to New York or Atlantic City for a weekend or go on vacation and stay out together at three in the morning. You can't do that with kids so we are good babysitting for friends and taking care of our cat. I have neighbors who come in and feed him while we are away and he is fine otherwise.

[Mary3]

My father has looked me in the eye and apologized so I do forgive him but my mother still thinks of herself as the victim and considers herself a strong feminist because of it. She was horribly abused by her father and refuses to be victim to any man so she became an abuser herself.

 

So you see the damage perpetuates itself through generations.

 

Its like sexual abuse. I know a few friends who were sexually abused by their dads in both cases. One was female and one was male friend . The abusing dads were abused by their dads . Its like a sickness that keeps spreading...

 

But not all kids that are abused grow up and abuse again. But some do.

[Woggle]

So you see the damage perpetuates itself through generations.

 

Its like sexual abuse. I know a few friends who were sexually abused by their dads in both cases. One was female and one was male friend . The abusing dads were abused by their dads . Its like a sickness that keeps spreading...

 

But not all kids that are abused grow up and abuse again. But some do.

 

Why do you think that I refuse to have kids?

[Mary3]

I guess you are right. I just to work up the courage to do it.

 

I was watching this episode of Hoarders the other night and there was a hawaiian couple and the husband was exactly the kind of man I want to avoid being. His kids were living in utter filth that endangered their health yet instead of standing up to his wife who was the hoarder and getting them the hell out of there he cowered in the corner and cried. That is the same thing my father did when my mother would go on one of her rampages which of course made her even more angry. Any sign of a man showing vulnerability around made her treat them less than human.

 

Speaking of Hoarders. I have watched both Animal Hoarders and the regular Hoarders.

 

( Zoom ahead for a second and on Animal Hoarders the dogs were poo-ing on the floor and I decided I can't watch that show anymore because it breaks my heart for the 50 animals packed in the house and the owners who wallow in their animals filfth )

 

Okay back to Hoarders. The hoarder is mentally ill. Even if you clean their house , they will dirty and clutter it up again with * things * including trash , animal droppings , everything is saved .

 

What disgusts me is the husband who stands there in his wifes filfth and admits they have not cleaned the house for 6 years. I suppose no matter if he would have hired a maid , a cleaning destruction crew , a football team , it would not have mattered unless the Hoarder got some therapy.

 

The hoarding SO is as ill as the hoarder.

 

So you understand Woggle there are two mentally ill ppl functioning in the Hoarder family, the alcoholic family , the abusive family.

 

You have the abuser. You have the enabler. And then you have the victim. In your case you were the victim.

 

My friend who was severely abused by his dad had your same sentiment. He can't and won't have kids. ( the can't part - he is sterile )

 

So the Hawaiin husband who cowers in the corner while his wife loads the house up with junk is just as sick as the Hoarding wife.

 

Your dad was likely a low self esteem guy. He picked a brutal woman. She confirmed his imagined * low-life-ness " by her tirades and screaming , throwing boiling water.

 

You could never save your dad. He walked into that because he believed he was a low human being that deserved the same. He got it from your mom.

 

Its conflicting because we are supposed to love our parents. You forgave your dad . You MUST someday forgive everyone else for your own future mental health....

[Mary3]

Why do you think that I refuse to have kids?

 

You don't want to hurt them. It's understood. I don't know if therapy could change how you feel about that...

[Nikki Sahagin]

Why do you think that I refuse to have kids?

 

I understand that you personally may not want kids. But with the victims of abuse, parents either go on to repeat the cycle or break it. Some people have gone through such horrible things that they would never inflict that upon their kids. My dad for example had an unhappy childhood (I don't know specifics) but he said he wanted children so he could give us everything he never had and protect us from the things he was exposed to.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I'd like to ask you a personal question Woggle, given your views and opinions about women, what made you want to pursue a relationship? I know some people who are victims of abuse shun relationships altogether.

[Woggle]

I'd like to ask you a personal question Woggle, given your views and opinions about women, what made you want to pursue a relationship? I know some people who are victims of abuse shun relationships altogether.

 

I had all intentions of being a lifelong player after my first marriage but I met my wife and I was so shocked to find a good woman. Despite my issue we go together so well beyond that. I just see what other men go through and how not all but sadly too many women think and it makes me very paranoid about my own marriage.