My faith in women is somewhat restored

[that girl]

I'm defending Woggle...do I have woman issues too?

 

Do me Do me!

I don't remember you from post to post.

 

Woggle, Average Joe and Green regularly post how selfish, dishonest and manipulative most women are. They are openly misogynistic, all you have to do is look at their recent posts.

 

This place is kind of a wasteland for bitter guys who don't like women.

[InceptorsRule]

Do you have valued friends? I mean, really valuded friends. Those that you could call up if you needed, and they could call you up for any reason at all. Anything, you would be there.

 

None who make it a habit to help married men cheat on their husbands. I wouldn't call such a person "friend" and in fact would have nothing whatever to do with such a person. Such a person is the lowest type of vile scum. There's nothing that such scum has to offer that I would ever want be way of friendship or anything else. No thanks.

 

 

I am unmarried, and I like going out, I like women, I have no desire to bang my buddies wife. None!

Why would I?

 

First of all you aren't woggle's friend and I assume it's not your habit to make a practice of banging married women.

 

Second maybe you just don't have any friends whose wives are attractive enough for you to think of them in "that way" (i.e. sexually).

 

Third and most important is that your refusal to contemplate even the hypothetical possibility of wanting to have sex with a close friend's wife indicates you are in a state of denial. People who deny reality are actually more likely to violate boundaries due to their lack of awareness of those boundaries. So if you ever did one day have a friend whose wife you found sexually attractive, but pretended to yourself you didn't feel that way, you would most likely be MORE prone to do something stupid with her, if the opportunity arose.

 

Every "best friend" of some guy who ended up cheating with the guy's wife--and their are plenty of such stories--was not supposed to betray their friend by doing that. Yet they did. According to you (and woggle) such behavior is impossible. Well it's not impossible. In fact affairs are MORE likely to happen among people who are closely socially intertwined. That's why many women (and men) tend to have affairs with people they know--friends, husband's friends, work colleagues, relatives, in laws.

 

I don't know how much relationship experience you have but you come off as extremely naiive, as opposed to woggle, who is simply in denial. Guys like woggle's friend, bitter, dysfunctional "players," people who specifically target married women to the exclusion of seeking a healthy relationship, are exactly the type of people who derive the biggest thrill and biggest joy of pulling off the biggest betrayal--the biggest scam. And in this case if woggle is his BFF that would be cheating with woggle's wife. I'm not saying that's going to happen because that would depend on woggle's wife. But for woggle to believe that his best friend hasn't at least thought about it is simply naive on his part. Woggle's friend believes woggle to be a chump. Woggle's friend has no respect for woggle, because woggle's friend knows woggle's first wife chumped woggle out by cheating on him. Yet woggle is acting as wingman for the friend while the friend cheats with other married women.

 

What is woggle getting out of this? Some kind of sick, vicarious thrill of being the guy (in his imagination) who is taking his revenge by getting all these women to cheat.

 

In any event yes of course woggle's friend would love to have sex with woggle's wife and the best part for the friend would be when woggle catches them in flagrante delicto and the friend can actually personally witness woggle crumble into schizoidal psychosis. Both of these guys are obviously seriously damaged and the last thing they should be doing is hanging out with each other reinforcing each other's personality disorders.

 

There is no way I would put our life long friendship into jeopardy by going after his wife. Ever!

 

Good for you. But you've avoided saying whether you find this friend's wife sexually attractive. Besides suppose one day they have a fight, he goes out of town, and she invites you over to cry on your shoulder? She's your friend too right? Wouldn't you be a friend to her and let her cry her tears out on your shoulder? That's how it starts my friend.

 

 

There are too many women out there.

The thought of me being intimate with my buddy's wife, my brother(s), is not comprehsensible. Its sickening.

 

How so? Is she sexually unattractive to you, repulsive? You get no points for that, you know.

 

Assuming she is sexually attractive to you, are you so devoid of imagination that you cannot even contemplate some scenario, however improbable, in which you are able to fulfill a sexual fantasy with this woman?

 

I call b.s. on that if you make that claim. If she's even reasonably attractive and you spend a reasonable amount of time with her/them, and you're an ordinary male, then you HAVE at least fantasized about her. Because everyone does this.

 

Your denial is so extreme that I think you're not being truthful. You haven't even owned up to whether you find her attractive or not. You're telling me you've never mentally undressed her? Hogwash, if you mentally undress random women in the street, then you must have done it with her.

 

 

 

Ever had a bond like that? Maybe not by blood, but by brotherhood.

 

When reality ever hits you I predict it's going to hit you very hard.

[InceptorsRule]

He didnt lie to him.

 

LOL. You know this how, exactly? (Not that it changes the fact that the guy is a liar.)

 

 

Its justified by true friends, one that may do everything you may not approve of as being a married man, yet never violates the trust of a friend.

I think you're expressing a rather situational version of morality and ethics here, actually it's the ethical system of the criminal. (Not saying you're a criminal.) A friend can do anything they want as long as they don't hurt me. Unfortunately people don't have such an ability to compartmentalize their behaviors in such a tidy manner, so even from a practical standpoint people with bad ethics generally don't make good friends even if you believe they won't apply their bad ethics to you personally, because generally it's only a matter of time before the "friend" becomes the next victim.

 

So you end up with a bizarre situation in which the friend of the unethical person (woggle being the friend) actually is "enlisted" by the so-called "friend" to be an aide/accomplice to the friend's hurting of other people (the husbands of the married women and actually the women themselves by cheating with them). So somehow the "bond of friendship" requires woggle to assist his "friend" in engaging in clearly unethical behavior.

 

Again that's how criminals get their weaker-minded friends to aide and abet, under the guise of "friendship."

 

To me if someone is doing something unethical and expects me to help them or even give them any kind of support/encouragement then THAT in itself is a violation of whatever bond of friendship we might have.

 

You of course see it differently--you believe it is your obligation as the friend of an unethical person to encourage their lack of ethics or at least to look the other way whilst they are hurting other people.

 

The ethics of a criminal. Well my friend you are quite welcome to those ethics but please do not come crying back when it backfires on you--which it will.

 

 

You can throw a brick and bust some windows with it, or you can build a house with it.

Either way, is it the bricks fault?

 

I think we should try to act with more intelligence than a brick has.

[that girl]

I like Woggle though..I know he is hard on woman or whatever, but I sort of understand why. It's hard to see someone get butchered alive like this when they don't know how deep rooted his paranoia is.

 

See, I have deep paranoia too of a different reason.... I get what Woggle is going through to as others do not in their holier than thou fashions of advice.

I have a lot of sympathy for someone who is scared. My sympathy quickly ends when someone starts verbally abusing those they are afraid of as Woggle does.

 

You may think I am holier than thou, but I will not be silent when someone unfairly generalizes about people based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orrientation. That isn't cool no matter what you've been through.

[AverageJoe]

None who make it a habit to help married men cheat on their husbands. I wouldn't call such a person "friend" and in fact would have nothing whatever to do with such a person. Such a person is the lowest type of vile scum. There's nothing that such scum has to offer that I would ever want be way of friendship or anything else. No thanks.

 

His friend didnt invite woggle to participate in picking up women. He was a spectator. Woggle, got to see him fail in spectacular fashion.

 

 

 

First of all you aren't woggle's friend and I assume it's not your habit to make a practice of banging married women.

 

Second maybe you just don't have any friends whose wives are attractive enough for you to think of them in "that way" (i.e. sexually).

 

Some of them are very attractive, so what? I can pick up attractive girls when I feel like it. Why in the hell would I feel so inclined to try to pick up on my friends women, or wives. I can get my own. I am the naive one, sure.

 

 

Third and most important is that your refusal to contemplate even the hypothetical possibility of wanting to have sex with a close friend's wife indicates you are in a state of denial.

 

You got it, not a chance. I can get laid tomorrow if I choose. I choose not to with the people I cherish and love.

By the way, there isnt any avoidace. The question was never asked.

 

 

I don't know how much relationship experience you have but you come off as extremely naiive, as opposed to woggle, who is simply in denial. Guys like woggle's friend, bitter, dysfunctional "players," people who specifically target married women to the exclusion of seeking a healthy relationship, are exactly the type of people who derive the biggest thrill and biggest joy of pulling off the biggest betrayal--the biggest scam. And in this case if woggle is his BFF that would be cheating with woggle's wife. I'm not saying that's going to happen because that would depend on woggle's wife. But for woggle to believe that his best friend hasn't at least thought about it is simply naive on his part. Woggle's friend believes woggle to be a chump. Woggle's friend has no respect for woggle, because woggle's friend knows woggle's first wife chumped woggle out by cheating on him. Yet woggle is acting as wingman for the friend while the friend cheats with other married women.

 

You should have chosen your friends more wisely. Not my problem.

 

 

 

Good for you. But you've avoided saying whether you find this friend's wife sexually attractive. Besides suppose one day they have a fight, he goes out of town, and she invites you over to cry on your shoulder? She's your friend too right? Wouldn't you be a friend to her and let her cry her tears out on your shoulder? That's how it starts my friend.

 

I suppose you dont understand boudaries. Thats ok, some dont.

As her tears flowed, all you could think about was ****ing her, eh?

 

 

 

I call b.s. on that if you make that claim. If she's even reasonably attractive and you spend a reasonable amount of time with her/them, and you're an ordinary male, then you HAVE at least fantasized about her. Because everyone does this.

 

 

You got me there, I have neve been accused of be ordianary.

[Pyro]

I know what I see and I see a lot of women who are just completely and utterly heartless when it comes to men. I realize it is not all but I have seen what the men I know go through. My friend who we are talking about here used to be a loving and faithful man who would not even go to a strip club on a trip because he would not disrespect his gf but she cheated on him and so did the two women after him so right now he just wants to hump them and dump them. I am not promoting this but how much crap can a good men take before he becomes a jerk? He finds that married women are the easiest to get into bed so that is who he goes for.

 

It's sad but he seems happier now than he ever did in a relationship. Maybe if the women he dated would have treated him better he would not be the way he is now. Even if I don't agree with what he does I am not dumping a friend who helped me in my darkest times because I don't stan friends in the back. Him and the guys from the old days were the only family I had for years and I love them even if they screw up sometimes.

 

Even when I admit that maybe all women are not bad and maybe there are women out there who are not like the ones I see in my world I get flack.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe your wonderful friend was not completely innocent?

 

The cheating cannot be justified but perhaps they cheated because of what type of person he was. You don't know the exact truth and I don't know the exact truth, but perhaps your friend has some flaws which makes him not completely innocent.

 

More than one woman cheated on him. I don't think the women are the problem here.

[BlackLovely]

I agree with green, this guy sounds like a totally jerk you probably shouldn't associate with him. Its your own life and you don't have to take advice from anyone but trust me, birds of a feather flock together. If you are one of those people that say 'well my friends are like that but I'm not' I have news for you, if you aren't already like them you will BECOME like them, it's the way the world works.

 

Rednecks have redneck friends, cheaters having cheating friends, players have player friends.

This is complete BS. I have friends of all different lifestyles and inclinations. I don't participate in them, just because they're my friends. This is not after school special, peer pressure time. Sensible adults can separate their own actions from those they associate with.

I have a lot of gay friends that I spend time with...does that mean I'll be gay because they are, or pop E at dance clubs because they do? LOL

[BlackLovely]

Actions speak alot about people's presonality, none of my friends would ever do this, if they did I would stop talking to them (and yes I have had friends who were very close who made some dumb decisions in life who I then cut contact with). To some people it may not be important (it's all opinions after all) to me my friends actions speak VOLUMES.

Are you perfect? Do expect everyone to behave the way you want them too?

I met this parasite who took advantage of my compassion and kindness. She then cut me off, because I was "doing some things she didn't agree with." She had no problem coming to me with her drama though, or asking to borrow money.

I hate when people have holier-than-thou attitudes.

[BlackLovely]

Probably not good because hanging out with those types helped ruin my first marriage.

LOL LOL You are full of double standards, my friend.

[BlackLovely]

At least he tries to come here and attempt to figure it all out...Kudos for that.

He isn't really attempting to figure things out. He clearly believes the vast majority of women are bad people- he has posted it more than once. I understand why someone would remain friends with someone who knowingly goes after married people, but it is also a sign of how Woggle gives men leeway while considering women to be bad people. Even when a guy does something immoral, Woggle manages to blame it on a woman.

 

Everyone has baggage, but when you start taking it out on other people you lose some sympathy. Every time Woggle posts about women he is taking out his issues on other people.

 

I don't think he would get nearly so much sympathy if he regularly posted racist tirades, but somehow hating women gets him some sympathy here.

It gets no sympathy from me. Woggle is just a misogynistic and whiny person, who is trapped by his twisted and controlling view of the way women should be treated. He celebrates double standards, along with women being abused and dominated by men.

 

His ex wife represents all women for him. Everything is also about male and female relations for this guy. Like I posted before, Woggle is as bad as extremist feminists who hate men and just as laughably ignorant.

 

It's all very sad, especially since he's married.

[BlackLovely]

I know what I see and I see a lot of women who are just completely and utterly heartless when it comes to men. I realize it is not all but I have seen what the men I know go through. My friend who we are talking about here used to be a loving and faithful man who would not even go to a strip club on a trip because he would not disrespect his gf but she cheated on him and so did the two women after him so right now he just wants to hump them and dump them. I am not promoting this but how much crap can a good men take before he becomes a jerk? He finds that married women are the easiest to get into bed so that is who he goes for.

 

It's sad but he seems happier now than he ever did in a relationship. Maybe if the women he dated would have treated him better he would not be the way he is now. Even if I don't agree with what he does I am not dumping a friend who helped me in my darkest times because I don't stan friends in the back. Him and the guys from the old days were the only family I had for years and I love them even if they screw up sometimes.

 

Even when I admit that maybe all women are not bad and maybe there are women out there who are not like the ones I see in my world I get flack.

Take responsibility for your actions, Woggle. Your angry tirades against women, have earned you the consequence of people bashing you. Don't even try to lament the way you're treated now, because it is simply ALL YOUR FAULT.

[BlackLovely]

I don't think woggle hates women... he is afraid of them and he struggles with the truth... MOST WOMEN CHEAT... maybe all given the oportunity. Women are very ilogical and have "what have you done for me lately" kind of attitude. My gf said "I'm not your slave when I asked her to get some water for me tonight" men usualy don't say crap like this.... very woman of her. I'm not under any fanciful dilusions of what women are but woggle half sees the truth but mostly strugles in denial with his fear of the truth.

 

Its not about hating women but its also not about being politicaly correct.

 

:laugh::laugh::lmao::D:DGreen, how in the world do you know, that most men wouldn't refuse to fetch a glass of water? Do you think that a man who doesn't pay child support, would get his children's mother a drink? How often do you fetch things for her?

 

I had an awful ex who never did anything for me. He made a big stink about me pushing my plate towards him, when he was going to the sink anyway. Selfish fool....

 

FYI, I don't mind fetching things for my man and he doesn't mind doing it for me either. Some women understand that a relationship is about give and take. I make sure my hubby has a nice dinner most nights, not because he ordered me to, but because I understand how hungry he is when he gets in. He also goes out of his way to help me or try to add to my happiness. The man DESERVES at least a plate of goddamn food.

[BlackLovely]

My post don't last long...

 

I like Woggle though..I know he is hard on woman or whatever, but I sort of understand why. It's hard to see someone get butchered alive like this when they don't know how deep rooted his paranoia is.

 

See, I have deep paranoia too of a different reason.... I get what Woggle is going through to as others do not in their holier than thou fashions of advice.

Since I have extreme trust issues, I understand where Woggle is coming from too.

 

The difference is, I do not post man hating twaddle on this website. Instead, I go see a therapist so that we can make sense, of what it was like for me to grow up never seeing a faithful husband.

[Woggle]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe your wonderful friend was not completely innocent?

 

The cheating cannot be justified but perhaps they cheated because of what type of person he was. You don't know the exact truth and I don't know the exact truth, but perhaps your friend has some flaws which makes him not completely innocent.

 

More than one woman cheated on him. I don't think the women are the problem here.

 

Of course it is his fault. It is always a man's fault and women are completly innocent. It is this mentality that turns men like myself bitter.

[Woggle]

Also I feel I am fighting back against misandry more than I am being a misoynist.

[torranceshipman]

A friend of mine who is a bigtime player told me that he can pick any randomn woman with a wedding ring and get her to cheat. He took me out today to try and display it for me since tourist season will be over soon and he kept striking out over and over again. This is a guy who can easily get a woman because I have seen him in action but most of these women seemed offended by the very idea that they would cheat. I did not expect this. Maybe their husband were nearby but I was pleasently surprised.

 

Are you kidding me?! Some total sleazebag hits up on randoms, and you are surprised that DIDN'T work? Ugh.

[naya1]

well its kinda having a serial murderer for a best friend, when ur loved one has been murdered. ur only sticking with him cause he seems like a sort of a refuge..u think its comforting but its not. its not a healthy kind of friendship, cause whenever he does it it hurts you and u just wont admit it.

[InceptorsRule]

Of course it is his fault. It is always a man's fault and women are completly innocent. It is this mentality that turns men like myself bitter.

 

Woggle, you seem to be completely missing the point, as do many others posting here.

 

You're willingly acting as the "wingman" for a person who himself is an "aider and abettor" of the relationship crime which severely damaged you--cheating by your first wife.

 

So YOU are at least partially "at fault" by being a participant in your scuzzy friend's attempts to involve himself with cheating women--even if he's not successful when you're present, and even if you're not "doing" anything other than observing.

 

You cannot control what your friend does. However, you can certainly control your own behavior (I would hope you can, anyway).

 

So if you believe yourself to be a "true friend" to your buddy, and if you are a true friend, then when he suggested you act as his wingman for this nonsense, you should have told him point blank: "Sorry friend, I can't participate in this type of activity with you in any way. It's scuzzy and I refuse to be a part of it in any way, even for entertainment value. What you're doing is pointless, destructive activity which will only end up hurting these women, their families (obviously) and ultimately, yourself."

 

Reading some of these threads is almost LOL funny at times, but actually very sad, the lack of basic understanding of rudimentary principles of interpersonal ethics suggests that many posting here were raised by a pack of wolves in the woods.

[desertmoon]

He is not the one who made vows to another person and pledged to love and cherish them.

 

Ohhhh...well then, than makes it okay! See guys?

[Philetus]

 

Reading some of these threads is almost LOL funny at times, but actually very sad, the lack of basic understanding of rudimentary principles of interpersonal ethics suggests that many posting here were raised by a pack of wolves in the woods.

 

 

Quoted for truth. So many men on here have a 'Us vs Them' mentality. It's no wonder they get treated poorly by women in their estimation.

 

If I dated women that were this bitter and acrimonious.. well, actually I'd stop dating them because who wants to be with someone like that? They're just waiting for you to do something bad so they can go, 'ah ha! Knew it.' Or, worse, they're trying to **** you over before you have a chance to hurt them.

 

The worst part is these guys get hurt by somebody and then use that to condone their subsequent boorish behaviour. It's the same as a victim of a pedophile growing up to abuse children himself and using his past abuse as justification. Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

[2sunny]

if it makes you feel better about women in general - even as a single gal now - i don't take offers such as your friend portrayed.

 

i expect a man to have some integrity and substance of which i can admire about him... and THAT behavior is not it!

 

for me to consider any man and time with him - i need to have evidence of his integrity and honesty level.

 

i hope that helps.

[Woggle]

You are right that I was not the wingman. I was just observing and that is what I usually do. This guy is smooth as hell with single women but he could not get a woman to cheat and he was specifically looking for wedding rings.

[Mary3]

You are right that I was not the wingman. I was just observing and that is what I usually do. This guy is smooth as hell with single women but he could not get a woman to cheat and he was specifically looking for wedding rings.

 

I'm trying to figure out why you think most women cheat so here is my psycho A :

 

Woggle you seem to * attract * cheaters .

 

It seems that you are creating these experiences. The other person may have his/her own issues from childhood that they are trying to compensate for, or replace, in their own mind . They come along and meet you and the cycle begins. .

 

For whatever reason , likely when you were a kid , you felt like you needed attention and when that person ignored you and walked away, then you took it into adulthood with women.

 

When a women spends less time with you then you might translate it into she must be cheating on you. And if you picked an insecure women who needed validating with other men and she has cheating in her past then there you go,. ( None of this suggests all women cheat but rather a minority of women may cheat in certain circumstances . )

 

If you want to attract people who bring you happiness and fulfillment (and not pain and heartache), and if you want to maintain a healthy fulfilling relationship you must take each situation you experience with another person as having a message for you. Until you listen to it, it is highly probable that it will be repeated.

 

I could be completely wrong and you had a loving happy family with lots of hugs/ affection and there was no major calamity but if so what the heck happened ( ? ) because few men think the way you do .... ( Those few men seem to habitate LS on the forums )

 

How then can you explain Woggle how SO MANY of us don't have cheating in our lives ? How many of us have Moms / Dads , bro's ,.sisters , relatives and friends who don't cheat ??

 

Do you have it in your immediate family ? Friends ?

[Woggle]

Everybody here knows the story of my childhood so I won't go into that but it has greatly influenced my views. Today I talked myself out of a hateful mood after listening to the cheating twins at work and was very loving towards my wife so I am trying.

[roci]

Woggle that is a very funny story!

 

I've seen the same games with alcholics, only instead of catching people cheating its alcoholic games like 'caught you drinking again! a ha!' or

tempting them 'Here have one, just one drink won't hurt'

 

Cheating games need "players" which include

-heroes(the helpful friend who pointed out the cheating)

-victims (the poor unsuspecting betrayed person who ignored all the warning signs)

-villains (wicked evil cheaters/ the other man/ the other woman)

-persecutors (the righteous finger pointers who indulge in guilt trips and blame)

and a whole set of games revolve around these characters.

 

The roles are interchanging: the 'victim' today might take out his vengeance by becoming the 'villain' who cheats tomorrow (I would totally watch out for your good "friend" by the way, don't leave him alone with your wife) or become the persecutor (you) or choose to remain the victim (the guy or girl who gets cheated on multiple times) or become a 'hero' by reporting on someone cheating in the future. Its a cycle and you are still in it until you stop playing these games and these roles.

 

I think you have so much inner rage that without something to blame it on (women) it has no other outlet, that is why you indulge in these games. It also gives you a chance to be both victim and persecutor, which must feel good at times. But I hope you will look into your own patterns and try to change them, otherwise you are choosing to remain surrounded by cheaters and cheating.

Edited September 7, 2010 by roci