What if Men Had to Follow Female Beauty Rules?

[sagetalk]

And how much weight have you lost exactly and how long have you been on this diet?

 

go here

 

Men's Health Forum and post on the nutrition board.

 

Those guys know what they are talking about and women can post too. If you told them you are hungry and trying to lose weight they would give you a serious scolding. You are doing it wrong, do it right for your health and well being.

[Enchanted Girl]

Here's where things get fun.

 

I haven't loss much weight (3 lbs), but I'm a lot leaner.

 

 

Weight is a combination of Lean muscle (good) and fat (bad). The mistake is made when we focus our attention solely on weight loss, because that means burning muscle along with fat, which is bad, because muscle burns calories. We need this in sufficient amounts to aid us!

 

Don't worry about what the scale says, but what you look like in the mirror, because that's what shows. Focus on burning fat, and keeping/developing as much muscle as possible along with a cardio routine. The scale should only serve as a use for helping you calculate the amount of lean muscle you've gained/maintained and the amount of fat that has been burned.

 

You will never hear this in popular books/magazines/supplement companies, because that's how they make their money..on misinformation.

 

So how do you know you're actually leaner? Did you measure your waist regularly to see if you're really leaner? Or are you just saying this because you think you are.

 

Also, women aren't men. We have to actually lose the weight to be skinnier. We don't make muscle like you, so we can't stay weighing a lot and still look thinner.

 

All your advice is directed towards women as if their bodies were the same as yours. What separates the two genders is that their bodies are different.

[USMCHokie]

Here's where things get fun.

 

I haven't loss much weight (3 lbs), but I'm a lot leaner.

 

 

Weight is a combination of Lean muscle (good) and fat (bad). The mistake is made when we focus our attention solely on weight loss, because that means burning muscle along with fat, which is bad, because muscle burns calories. We need this in sufficient amounts to aid us!

 

Don't worry about what the scale says, but what you look like in the mirror, because that's what shows. Focus on burning fat, and keeping/developing as much muscle as possible along with a cardio routine. The scale should only serve as a use for helping you calculate the amount of lean muscle you've gained/maintained and the amount of fat that has been burned.

 

You will never hear this in popular books/magazines/supplement companies, because that's how they make their money..on misinformation.

 

 

::raises hand::

 

Oh, oh, but Mr. Nate, if I'm a woman, I don't want to get all bulky and muscular like a guy, so what you're saying shouldn't apply to me, right???

[Enchanted Girl]

go here

 

Men's Health Forum and post on the nutrition board.

 

Those guys know what they are talking about and women can post too. If you told them you are hungry and trying to lose weight they would give you a serious scolding. You are doing it wrong, do it right for your health and well being.

 

Because men's bodies are the same as women's right?

 

Because when I looked at my boyfriend's body naked, it was different.

[USMCHokie]

All your advice is directed towards women as if their bodies were the same as yours. What separates the two genders is that their bodies are different.

 

You're right, men and women are physiologically different, but the training philosophies for both genders are identical. Anyone who honestly believes otherwise is...well...uhmm...yea...

[Enchanted Girl]

You're right, men and women are physiologically different, but the training philosophies for both genders are identical. Anyone who honestly believes otherwise is...well...uhmm...yea...

 

So then, when you said that men had it harder because they had to work harder to be in shape, you were actually lying because our "training philosophies" are identical and the way we get in shape is identical, right?

[MrNate]

So how do you know you're actually leaner? Did you measure your waist regularly to see if you're really leaner? Or are you just saying this because you think you are.

 

Also, women aren't men. We have to actually lose the weight to be skinnier. We don't make muscle like you, so we can't stay weighing a lot and still look thinner.

 

All your advice is directed towards women as if their bodies were the same as yours. What separates the two genders is that their bodies are different.

 

Body fat calipers. Get them. I recommend accumeasure's brand. This allows you to calculate your bodyfat percentage, from which you can derive your lean muscle amount, and fat amount. Going based off what you see in the mirror is like watching grass grow. This process gives you actual numbers to track. Fat loss is a process.

 

Women have muscle in a different proportion. Yes, your body fat percentage is higher because women carry more fat. BUT women are also a heck of a lot more toned at a higher body fat percentage because of this. Men get leaner at much smaller percentages. It evens out.

 

The law of calorie balance applies to both genders. So no one has an advantage on a fundamental level (disregarding freaky genes). Testosterone is different from estrogen, but that plays a small factor when considering fat loss. So much more comes into play.

[MrNate]

::raises hand::

 

Oh, oh, but Mr. Nate, if I'm a woman, I don't want to get all bulky and muscular like a guy, so what you're saying shouldn't apply to me, right???

 

Silly hokie! Women don't have near the amount of testosterone as guys have, so they couldn't build massive amounts of muscle (like we can) without steroids. Testosterone contributes to greater bone mass, as well as muscle size. Even if you are a woman the amount of muscle you build is very important if you want to get toned. Women must build muscle!

 

Cardio alone won't cut it! Diet alone won't cut it! You need all three!

 

Cardio, diet, muscle= Fat loss trifecta.

[USMCHokie]

So then, when you said that men had it harder because they had to work harder to be in shape, you were actually lying because our "training philosophies" are identical and the way we get in shape is identical, right?

 

This was actually a pretty good rebuttal...but...

 

First of all, I will concede that it is SIGNIFICANTLY harder for a female to achieve body fat levels and lean muscle mass sufficient to get that extremely toned, six-pack bodybuilder physique than it is for a male...but the caveat is that a good majority of men actually don't really care for women who look like that since it's not very feminine...however, that lean, muscular, and chiseled look on men is very attractive to women...and it definitely takes hard work and discipline to achieve that look...

 

So it's not that training for men and women is any different...it's the extent of that training that matters...men have to go further with their physiques than do women...women don't need six-packs to be sexy...but for men, it's certainly helps...therefore, they have to train harder in comparison simply because they need to go to a different level of fitness altogether...

[Green]

So then, when you said that men had it harder because they had to work harder to be in shape, you were actually lying because our "training philosophies" are identical and the way we get in shape is identical, right?

 

Men have to work harder because all you have to be is thin to be a good looking female.

 

Good looking men have to be Big and some what ripped. (HARDER)

 

Go back to you enchanted world Enchanted Girl, You have your eyes closed to the truth of how easily you could become thin and stay thing.

 

You don't have to starve yourself in fact if you are starving yourself you are most likely a FAT yo yo dieter or some one who is gross skinny.

 

We told you what to do and how easy it is for women.

[MrNate]

This was actually a pretty good rebuttal...but...

 

First of all, I will concede that it is SIGNIFICANTLY harder for a female to achieve body fat levels and lean muscle mass sufficient to get that extremely toned, six-pack bodybuilder physique than it is for a male...but the caveat is that a good majority of men actually don't really care for women who look like that since it's not very feminine...however, that lean, muscular, and chiseled look on men is very attractive to women...and it definitely takes hard work and discipline to achieve that look...

 

So it's not that training for men and women is any different...it's the extent of that training that matters...men have to go further with their physiques than do women...women don't need six-packs to be sexy...but for men, it's certainly helps...therefore, they have to train harder in comparison simply because they need to go to a different level of fitness altogether...

 

Yep. A woman at 14-20% body fat looks much better than a man at 14-20% body fat.

[Untouchable_Fire]

OMG... Why are we still arguing this?

 

The bodyimage requirement for men is insanely hard.... and women hold us to it at a much higher %.

 

Women have to put more effort into tangential things like makeup and hair. Plus they seem to drive each other batty with competitive pressures.

 

So we can all agree that Women have it very hard because of other women... and Men have it hard because of women... Everyone Agree?

[jamesum]

It seems harder to be a woman because women dont approach men.

 

When all you do is waiting, the power is not in your hand and when you dont get enough offers, you think that you are not attractive enough or you suspect the other women are more attractive although it may not be the reason. So this cycle continues until as far as surgery tables or even worse.

 

A year ago I experimented on 'being a woman'. For the whole year I did not make any attempt to approach the opposite sex and only waited for them to make the first contact. Man, it was really painful. My self-esteem went to zero and I became so self-conscious that everytime a woman did not give me attention I felt like I must be ugly.

Edited July 23, 2010 by jamesum

[zengirl]

OMG... Why are we still arguing this?

 

The bodyimage requirement for men is insanely hard.... and women hold us to it at a much higher %.

 

Women have to put more effort into tangential things like makeup and hair. Plus they seem to drive each other batty with competitive pressures.

 

So we can all agree that Women have it very hard because of other women... and Men have it hard because of women... Everyone Agree?

I don't agree. I think men drive this muscled-men concept. I think women drive some female beauty concepts. I think women do consider looks when dating a man, and men do consider looks when dating a woman. I think women have a harder time staying in decent shape and that it is considered more important that the average woman do that than that the average man be a muscle guy.

 

In short: I think almost exactly the opposite of you. So, nah, we can't all agree. The best we can do is agree to disagree.

 

Yep. A woman at 14-20% body fat looks much better than a man at 14-20% body fat.

Of course, but it is much easier for men to lose/redistribute body fat than women. Women have to fight pretty hard to change that percentage, much harder than men. I know plenty of personal trainers from my ad sales days (they ran with me in the magazine), and they'd all tell you that easily.

 

Because it's true. Not all girls have frizzy hair. Some girls have straight hair and don't have to do anything.

 

If you saw me on the street, you'd think I did. I'm always praised for my straight, sleek hair. I've had chemical straightening or extensions before (which are expensive and time-consuming but made mornings a breeze), and I blow dry/straighten regularly, with great, expensive, time-consuming products.

 

I don't know any girl who rolls out of bed with that great, sleek, straight hair.

Edited July 23, 2010 by zengirl

[MrNate]

 

 

Of course, but it is much easier for men to lose/redistribute body fat than women. Women have to fight pretty hard to change that percentage, much harder than men. I know plenty of personal trainers from my ad sales days (they ran with me in the magazine), and they'd all tell you that easily.

 

 

We have it easier losing fat? lol. I don't buy it one bit, and it's not a matter of redistributing body fat..which doesn't really make sense either. Women distribute it more evenly than guys do, which is why guys have to do a lot of work to get it down. I don't see how this makes getting toned for us any easier than a woman, because I don't think it does. I think at some point these forms of rationale become more of excuses, instead of doing work.

 

I see toned (better yet, defined) men/women all the time. And they both share something in common. They both work their butts off. They both do cardio, they both lift weights, and they both watch what they eat. The same women I see with the flat stomachs, nice legs, and asses to die for, are the same ones jogging and lifting iron because they understand how the body works. If men had it easier, then I'm sure I would see much more toned, fit men, (since it should be easier) but I don't.

 

Calories in > calories out= weight gain

Vice versa equals weight loss. It's not like men get some pass here.

 

No one has it harder, each gender pays the price to get fit in the same way. In the end, it comes down to getting off the couch and doing work.

 

The only question that should be asked is 'are you willing to do to achieve the body you want?' The difference between those who complain, and those who do work, is that the latter said 'yes'.

[zengirl]

For the record, MrNate, for the most part, I have the body I want. (I'd like to be a little taller, but no workouts can help with that.) What I'm referring to is the way weight loss differs between men and women. This is a real phenomenon. The female metabolism and male metabolism are not the same. They aren't even close. I know folks who've studied nutrition at the PhD level (mostly men) and love to talk about this. You're ignoring a basic fact if you say that the fundamentals for losing weight/fat between men and women are the same; they aren't. Thinking they are is a way to set-up women for failure. (Men can do a lot more with diet than women can, for instance. Our bodies are meant to retain fat, assuming we are hormonally mature/average and not in some way putting puberty off. This is because our bodies are meant to carry other people in them, and that requires some deposits of fat, especially in the thousands of years of food scarcity and seasons.)

 

I could work out a bit more, personally, and I'm not buff, but I'm thin and an attractive weight, as well as healthy. But I'm always going to be thin unless I eat truly terribly. My body was built this way. I am a body-minority. So, I'm not speaking as someone who complains. I'm speaking as someone who has seen women do significant work, eat well, and not have thin bodies.

 

I also don't agree that men are pressured by women to be buff. Personally, I like thin guys. Lean guys. Sometimes, they work out. Sometimes, they don't. I know a lot of pretty girls, and I know very few who have ever expressed interest in muscles. In fact, we make fun of muscle guys.

[MrNate]

For the record, MrNate, for the most part, I have the body I want. (I'd like to be a little taller, but no workouts can help with that.) What I'm referring to is the way weight loss differs between men and women. This is a real phenomenon. The female metabolism and male metabolism are not the same. They aren't even close. I know folks who've studied nutrition at the PhD level (mostly men) and love to talk about this. You're ignoring a basic fact if you say that the fundamentals for losing weight/fat between men and women are the same; they aren't. Thinking they are is a way to set-up women for failure. (Men can do a lot more with diet than women can, for instance. Our bodies are meant to retain fat, assuming we are hormonally mature/average and not in some way putting puberty off. This is because our bodies are meant to carry other people in them, and that requires some deposits of fat, especially in the thousands of years of food scarcity and seasons.)

 

I could work out a bit more, personally, and I'm not buff, but I'm thin and an attractive weight, as well as healthy. But I'm always going to be thin unless I eat truly terribly. My body was built this way. I am a body-minority. So, I'm not speaking as someone who complains. I'm speaking as someone who has seen women do significant work, eat well, and not have thin bodies.

 

I also don't agree that men are pressured by women to be buff. Personally, I like thin guys. Lean guys. Sometimes, they work out. Sometimes, they don't. I know a lot of pretty girls, and I know very few who have ever expressed interest in muscles. In fact, we make fun of muscle guys.

 

(First, I just wanted to say that my previous statements were not meant as an attack towards you. I could've worded it better. Now on to the response:)

 

Well, for this being a phenomenon, I've yet to see this be discussed in any way, shape or form. The only thing I notice is that fit people do some type of cardio, have some type of weight routine, and watch what they eat. Yes, there are a set of people who have better genes than others, but that doesn't mean those with a genetic predisposition to get fat can't achieve the body they want. Despite your phD affiliates, I will once again disagree that women are disadvantaged in any way. It's not setting up women for failure, unless of course they have to do more than (cardio, weights, proper eating). Any one of any gender can get defined despite genes, I'm sure your phD affiliates have seen total body transformations happen on several occasions.

 

As far as thin guys go, I don't think guys should be thin, and it's hard for me to take them seriously. I think they should have a nice set of muscles, and be strong. Lean/skinny is only sexy until it's time to lift a table, and you're struggling for dear life. As far as muscle goes, it depends on the women you associate with. I know quite a few women who like them. From the women I associate with, they like muscle, but not in excessive amounts, which is understandable. I know one guy in particular who gets laid repeatedly without much talking, and funny enough, he's one of the most defined/muscular guys I've seen. His frame is in proportion and filled out nicely. So it depends entirely on the woman.

Edited July 23, 2010 by MrNate

[zengirl]

For the record, I know some moderately muscular (think soccer player bodies) guys who do well with gals. But none of them who concentrate on their muscles when interacting with women and none of them who I've seen attract women with their muscles. At least not quality women. I think if you're looking for casual sex, yeah, men have to work harder. If a girl wants casual sex, she has to work to a much lower standard. . . maybe that's what folks mean. But men will have casual sex with women they find marginally attractive, whereas women rarely do.

 

As far as thin guys go, I don't think guys should be thin, and it's hard for me to take them seriously. I think they should have a nice set of muscles, and be strong. Lean/skinny is only sexy until it's time to lift a table, and you're struggling for dear life.

 

Well, I can lift a table, and I'm a thin, teensy little gal with spaghetti arms. You really don't have to work out much to do that.

 

At any rate, this comment illustrates my point that men prioritize muscles more than women!

[espec10001]

(First, I just wanted to say that my previous statements were not meant as an attack towards you. I could've worded it better. Now on to the response:)

 

Well, for this being a phenomenon, I've yet to see this be discussed in any way, shape or form. The only thing I notice is that fit people do some type of cardio, have some type of weight routine, and watch what they eat. Yes, there are a set of people who have better genes than others, but that doesn't mean those with a genetic predisposition to get fat can't achieve the body they want. Despite your phD affiliates, I will once again disagree that women are disadvantaged in any way. It's not setting up women for failure, unless of course they have to do more than (cardio, weights, proper eating). Any one of any gender can get defined despite genes, I'm sure your phD affiliates have seen total body transformations happen on several occasions.

 

As far as thin guys go, I don't think guys should be thin, and it's hard for me to take them seriously. I think they should have a nice set of muscles, and be strong. Lean/skinny is only sexy until it's time to lift a table, and you're struggling for dear life. As far as muscle goes, it depends on the women you associate with. I know quite a few women who like them. From the women I associate with, they like muscle, but not in excessive amounts, which is understandable. I know one guy in particular who gets laid repeatedly without much talking, and funny enough, he's one of the most defined/muscular guys I've seen. His frame is in proportion and filled out nicely. So it depends entirely on the woman.

 

Just because a guy is skinny doesn't mean he's weak. I'm a thin guy and I'm not stupid enough to take on someone twice my size, but trust me I'm anything but weak. The mind holds much more power than the body does

[MrNate]

Just because a guy is skinny doesn't mean he's weak. I'm a thin guy and I'm not stupid enough to take on someone twice my size, but trust me I'm anything but weak. The mind holds much more power than the body does

 

But of course. Even skinny guys can be strong due to crazy genes, etc.

 

But in my own personal view: my mind will always associate skinny with weak. This doesn't mean, though, that I harbor some sort of condescending mindset towards them. I believe men should have a nice set of muscles for their frame and be strong.

[espec10001]

But of course. Even skinny guys can be strong due to crazy genes, etc.

 

But in my own personal view: my mind will always associate skinny with weak. This doesn't mean, though, that I harbor some sort of condescending mindset towards them. I believe men should have a nice set of muscles for their frame and be strong.

 

I'm not talking scrawny. I'm talking tall and lean muscle build. I'm the drummer in my band and I can promise you drums are quite the workout

[MrNate]

For the record, I know some moderately muscular (think soccer player bodies) guys who do well with gals. But none of them who concentrate on their muscles when interacting with women and none of them who I've seen attract women with their muscles. At least not quality women. I think if you're looking for casual sex, yeah, men have to work harder. If a girl wants casual sex, she has to work to a much lower standard. . . maybe that's what folks mean. But men will have casual sex with women they find marginally attractive, whereas women rarely do.

 

 

Well, I can lift a table, and I'm a thin, teensy little gal with spaghetti arms. You really don't have to work out much to do that.

 

At any rate, this comment illustrates my point that men prioritize muscles more than women!

 

lol. I'm pretty sure we all know thin guys can attract women. Attraction is a whole different subject. Thin guys and muscular guys can get it done. And the girls he attracted were quality women, they just wanted a piece of him, because his attitude is pretty genuine, the muscle only amplified the attraction. That's more a matter of male and female. The rest of this is just fairly obvious observations.

 

The table I mentioned is just something basic. Basic activities are easier on the body when it's strong and together.

 

Men will always prioritize muscles more than women, until society says otherwise. When muscular men stop getting so many looks from women, and it stops enhancing our attractiveness, then I think it will become less of a priority. But as of now, muscular/defined men get quite a bit of attention from, yes, quality women who happen to like muscles on a man. Funny enough, even guys stare at muscular/defined men.

[MrNate]

I'm not talking scrawny. I'm talking tall and lean muscle build. I'm the drummer in my band and I can promise you drums are quite the workout

 

Nice. As long as you have muscles to fit your body type, and you work them by whatever means ( in your case drumming) then you are definitely not scrawny. Your genes just have you leaner.

 

Scrawny is just bad lol.

[zengirl]

Men will always prioritize muscles more than women, until society says otherwise. When muscular men stop getting so many looks from women, and it stops enhancing our attractiveness, then I think it will become less of a priority. But as of now, muscular/defined men get quite a bit of attention from, yes, quality women who happen to like muscles on a man. Funny enough, even guys stare at muscular/defined men.

Everyone's experience is different. I've almost never seen gals comment on a guy's muscles. I've seen men talk about it endlessly, like it matters.

 

I'm going with men keep up muscles for other men. I wouldn't keep saying it, except you and others here keep trying to state your subjective experiences as truth. My subjective experiences are subjective experiences. I don't have a PhD or funding for a scientific study to find out, and really, there are bigger things to care about in the world, but what bothers me are the men here who

 

1) Think they know more about female weight loss than women and even health professionals.

 

2) Think their experiences trump that of everyone else in the world.

 

3) Constantly make my points and the points of the initial assertion (i.e. pointing out that they care about muscles, when no woman in the thread has said they do and calling women who aren't perfectly shaven/exfoliated/shined/moisturized trolls) whilst never once giving up their "Woe is Me" attitude.

 

4) Think they know more about female beauty rituals than women.

 

5) Constantly tell women what "they" have to do to be attractive whilst also assuming they know best what men have to do to be attractive. Apparently, many male posters here think they know everything about men and women (yet these same people still state problems they have with the opposite sex; wonder why that is?).

[sweetjasmine]

Everyone's experience is different. I've almost never seen gals comment on a guy's muscles. I've seen men talk about it endlessly, like it matters.

 

I'm going with men keep up muscles for other men. I wouldn't keep saying it, except you and others here keep trying to state your subjective experiences as truth. My subjective experiences are subjective experiences. I don't have a PhD or funding for a scientific study to find out, and really, there are bigger things to care about in the world, but what bothers me are the men here who

 

1) Think they know more about female weight loss than women and even health professionals.

 

2) Think their experiences trump that of everyone else in the world.

 

3) Constantly make my points and the points of the initial assertion (i.e. pointing out that they care about muscles, when no woman in the thread has said they do and calling women who aren't perfectly shaven/exfoliated/shined/moisturized trolls) whilst never once giving up their "Woe is Me" attitude.

 

4) Think they know more about female beauty rituals than women.

 

5) Constantly tell women what "they" have to do to be attractive whilst also assuming they know best what men have to do to be attractive. Apparently, many male posters here think they know everything about men and women (yet these same people still state problems they have with the opposite sex; wonder why that is?).

 

It all boils down to resentment: "women have it really, really easy in dating, and I have a really, really hard time, and they have all the power, and I'm resentful of it!" So anytime a woman says she has a hard time with X, Y, or Z, it inevitably turns into a men versus women pissing contest because god forbid someone else have worse problems than you and god forbid you have sympathy for the opposite gender who you look at as a monolithic group that you have absolutely nothing in common with and that comes from another planet.