What if Men Had to Follow Female Beauty Rules?

[gypsy_nicky]

Most women I know look at the face more than the body. (Then again, while men seem to care more about specific body types – very thin, but that might just be the guys I know being a pretty thin girl – so do most men I know.) Male or female, the face is something you’re either born with (or get under the knife, I guess) or aren’t.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

[gypsy_nicky]

I had 6pak abs through college... and I can tell you it makes an ENORMOUS difference with women.

 

I would basically wake up at 4am... workout cardio for 2-3 hours... go to my classes, hit the gym to lift at 12n... then get home and study for a bit.... then go running at 9 or 10pm for 6 miles or so. I would have to constantly monitor my diet too.

 

My abs are only visible at 6% bodyfat... which is just insane.

 

Later I find that the vast majority of guys just use steroids to achieve this look.

 

no b.s??!! That's insane! almost like what an amateur athlete would do.

[USMCHokie]

I disagree. If you look at the most beautiful males in the entertainment/fashion industry most do not have the synthetic looking Adonis physique. Most have normal to lean physiques w/in normal bmi.

 

They're wow factor comes from their face.

 

Physiques are simply just another element that is used to determine wow factor, just like the face is an element. Try to avoid looking solely at celebrities but more the average person on the street. Average folks are much more likely to see other average folks day to day than celebrities, yes...?

[kiss_andmakeup]

I've been watching this thread unfold and in general I agree with USMC that the gender bias is just too strong for there to be a definitive answer about "who has it harder."

 

I think we all tend to look to our own experiences for answers here, and my default is to look at my own relationship. Yes, I work way harder as far as appearances go, than my boyfriend. He works out MAYBE 3 times a week and SOMETIMES watches what he eats...he spends 5 minutes showering, 10 minutes shaving, 5 minutes brushing his teeth, and he's out the door.

 

I work out for an hour 5-6 days a week (however I don't NEED to do this just to stay thin, I'm doing it because I'm attempting to build muscle) and usually spend about an hour getting ready (including shower, hair, makeup, clothes, etc.)

 

But I also contrast this with girls who say they need 2+ hours to get ready and think that I"m really not that bad. I'm a stylist in a high end salon so I really do need my hair, makeup, and clothes to be very polished because of my job. And I am still able to get ready in under an hour.

 

I have friends (all in their 20's or very early 30's) who are constantly spending time/money on things like tanning, designer clothing/accessories, lightening their hair, etc. Though I expressed the need to look polished for my job, I've never found any of those things to be integral in being attractive as some women do. I've never been rejected by a guy for being too pale/not blonde enough/not having a designer pair of sunglasses. I think some (not all) women misinterpret what guys really want.

 

I am also miffed by women who will spend hours combined daily on hair, makeup, and tanning but who won't spend 30 minutes at the gym, when that would ultimately benefit their appearance far more in the long run.

[tigressA]

I am also miffed by women who will spend hours combined daily on hair, makeup, and tanning but who won't spend 30 minutes at the gym, when that would ultimately benefit their appearance far more in the long run.

 

I could say this annoys me too, but I really have no room to talk since I never work out. I don't need to do anything to maintain my figure, at least not now, but I know I could be even more attractive than I've already been deemed to be if I worked out. I'm way too lazy though.

 

I'm not super picky about a guy's body; all I ask is that he is lean. That's what I prefer. I'm not into muscles, nor am I into having a roly-poly human cushion to cuddle with.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I could say this annoys me too, but I really have no room to talk since I never work out. I don't need to do anything to maintain my figure, at least not now, but I know I could be even more attractive than I've already been deemed to be if I worked out. I'm way too lazy though.

 

I'm not super picky about a guy's body; all I ask is that he is lean. That's what I prefer. I'm not into muscles, nor am I into having a roly-poly human cushion to cuddle with.

 

Right, I meant more in the situation of a woman who is overweight or unhappy with her figure, and spends her time/money on everything under the sun to make herself look more attractive, EXCEPT working out.

 

I have clients who shell out hundreds of dollars on highlights, straightening treatments, facials, waxing, etc, and tell me about how they can't seem to find a guy, and it's probably because all guys are shallow and only want skinny women. In reality they could probably stop getting highlights and facials and waxing and just start working out 30 minutes a day, and have better luck with men.

Edited July 22, 2010 by kiss_andmakeup

[tigressA]

Right, I meant more in the situation of a woman who is overweight or unhappy with her figure, and spends her time/money on everything under the sun to make herself look more attractive, EXCEPT working out.

 

Ahhh yes, I figured that's what you meant. That does really annoy me. I see a lot of girls with perfect hair, tanned skin, great makeup and clothes, and horrendous bodies. Sad.

[Green]

This has absolutely NOT been proven. You are wildly misspoken. In fact there are surveys and studies which have found that on average, modern women tend to have higher stress levels, usually as a result of trying to juggle careers along with the predominant bulk of child-rearing. Another study indicates that women are more sensitive to chronic stress than men, as well. Neither finding has been proven across the board.

 

There are many theories that men process stress differently. A lot of health professionals also believe that a big part of the reason that men tend to die earlier is simply because men are less likely to see a doctor regularly for basic checkups and for minor complaints/before maladies get serious. It's also theorized that men would benefit from opening up and talking about their stressors more, something I definitely agree with.

 

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along. Look I read an article in this months "Wired" about stress and it specificaly talks about how things like estrogen (WOMEN) help combat the effects of stress and how testosterone (MEN) intesifies all the effects.

 

I'm glad I'm a man in the same way I'd rather be a spaceman then on ground control... but don't kid yourself the things a man must acomplish in life to be attractive go beyond what a woman does.

 

The fact of the matter is "if Men Had to Follow Female Beauty Rules" we wouldn't have any trouble with it. Plus believe me most of the so called rules are imposed by other women. The only true beauty rule I can give you is a) Don't be fat.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Most women I know look at the face more than the body. (Then again, while men seem to care more about specific body types – very thin, but that might just be the guys I know being a pretty thin girl – so do most men I know.) Male or female, the face is something you’re either born with (or get under the knife, I guess) or aren’t.

 

Very thin/waify look isn't that great. I hear size 0 and I think flat with no butt. That has been my experience with the size 0 girls.

 

One of the reasons I thought Brittney Spears was hot back when I was a youngster was because she was built more like a woman.

 

In my opinion if your hanging out with guys who specifically go after super skinny girls.... they are probably hooking up with other guys too.

 

I disagree. If you look at the most beautiful males in the entertainment/fashion industry most do not have the synthetic looking Adonis physique. Most have normal to lean physiques w/in normal bmi.

They're wow factor comes from their face.

 

I don't know what your thinking about... maybe the guys that walk down red carpets or something... but in magazines those guys are ripped.

 

If started testing those guys for steriods.... I bet a huge chunk would be positive.

[Untouchable_Fire]

no b.s??!! That's insane! almost like what an amateur athlete would do.

 

I was trying to make the Olympics, but I couldn't even make alternate. I was in good enough shape, but just too short at only 5'10".

[sunrae]

USMC- You're just hot

[Enchanted Girl]

Speaking of which, I don't know why you guys think that all a woman needs to do is be thin.

 

I forgot to mention this, but I have to do my hair on a regular basis. I'm not one of those women who does my hair because it's straight and I think it's boring. I'm one of those women with naturally frizzy, curly hair that looks like an animal died on her head if she doesn't straighten it.

 

Are men really attracted to this:

 

http://www.mynewhair.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/frizzy_hair.jpg

 

Because if so, then I'm going to stop doing my hair. My hair looks pretty much like that when I don't do it, except curlier and more poufy on the top as well.

 

I have wished on several occasions that I could cut it to only an inch long without being accused of being a lesbian. I just know it would look really bad, so I have to blow dry my hair and then use a straightening iron on it regularly. I don't do this every day because it can take me up to two hours to do.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Speaking of which, I don't know why you guys think that all a woman needs to do is be thin.

I forgot to mention this, but I have to do my hair on a regular basis.

 

Thin is not the correct term. You need to be "not fat".... and that means different things on different women. Just make sure you don't have a beer gut and you should be just fine.

 

Hair makes a huge difference to some guys, so maybe that's an annoyance you must live with. On the brightside you don't have to worry about it falling out.

[Stung]

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along. Look I read an article in this months "Wired" about stress and it specificaly talks about how things like estrogen (WOMEN) help combat the effects of stress and how testosterone (MEN) intesifies all the effects.

 

 

No, Green. I don't make up medical fact as I post on a forum. While I'm not familiar with the particular article you reference, I am familiar with more than a single article on sex differences and stress, and, I'm guessing, more familiar with how medical research works.

 

The current paradigm is that men and women are different in how their prefrontal cortex responds to stress. Current research does support beliefs that men have trouble with dealing with chronic stress as it triggers their fight or flight instincts, and males are more prone to burying stress in alcoholism or other destructive behaviors. However, more than twice as many women as men suffer from stress-related mental disorders such as depression and PTSD. Research by the Mayo Clinic also supports the belief that chronic stress and depression affect women's hearts more adversely than men's, and women FYI are more likely to die of heart disease than men are.

 

I'm pretty sure it was Yale University which published a study a few years back about how estrogen levels in women amplified the affects of stress, making women overall more sensitive to stress. Long-term stress has also been shown to reduce estrogen levels in women--but that leads to multiple health risks, including the aforementioned heart disease. In other words, while there is a complex and cyclical relationship between testosterone and stress hormones like cortisol and prolactin, there are also complex relationships between stress hormones and estrogen, and none of these relationships are fully understood yet. There are also sociological studies published which have found the average modern woman to suffer more from daily and long-term stress; however there are obvious exceptions to this as some of the most critically stressful and dangerous jobs tend to be in male-dominated fields. And while I have read medical opinions that stress kills men young, I have also read medical opinion much more nuanced and varied than that, which also points to men's habit of not seeking medical attention earlier, and the negative ways men tend deal with their stress, among other things.

 

 

What I'm basically trying to point out with this post and my last post is that medical research is ever-evolving and highly complex. You can cite one study saying that estrogen buffers the effects of stress, I can turn right around and find another that paints a different picture, where estrogen simply triggers a difference in behavioral response to stress, one that is actually more positive in the long-run (women tend to seek comfort and assistance when under stress while men have more destructive responses). Most medical articles and studies highlight only one fraction of the whole picture, and that picture is still changing as the research is ongoing. For you to claim that it has been PROVEN as FACT that men A) have more stressful lives than women and B) this is why they die earlier is just...scientifically inaccurate. It's at best half of the picture, and it's a factually incorrect statement.

 

Feel free to Google.

[USMCHokie]

USMC- You're just hot

 

 

Awww, heheh, thanks Sunrae! I missed you!

[sagetalk]

I disagree. If you look at the most beautiful males in the entertainment/fashion industry most do not have the synthetic looking Adonis physique. Most have normal to lean physiques w/in normal bmi.

 

They're wow factor comes from their face.

 

Yeah and Scarlett Johansson's wow factor is in her face .

 

Brad Pitt is ripped to near maximum for a guy his size. Ryan Reynolds, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, George Clooney, Denzel Washington, Matthew McConaughey, Hugh Jackman, Clive Owen, Daniel Craig,

 

Do you want me to go on? All those guys are muscle guys with intense muscle workout routines and they are the leading standard of famous men who are physically attractive.

 

Decaprio and Deep are a few of the exceptions because they are perceived/marketed as bad boys (dark triad) which attract women by bad attitudes/behavior and has nothing to do with looks. If you're going to market a guy with a nice or plain personality in Hollywood, he's going to be ripped or forget it.

[sagetalk]

 

Later I find that the vast majority of guys just use steroids to achieve this look.

 

Yep, most big muscle guys you see walking around have used steroids at some point in their life. Cheaters .

[MrNate]

USMC- You're just hot

 

Rumor has it that every time hokie flexes his bicep, you can hear the sound of a woman fainting.

[sagetalk]

 

I am also miffed by women who will spend hours combined daily on hair, makeup, and tanning but who won't spend 30 minutes at the gym, when that would ultimately benefit their appearance far more in the long run.

 

Same here. I almost feel sorry for the girl that spend all that time and money but are overweight. It makes no sense. Being in shape is much more productive then makeup, hair, tan.

 

Speaking of which, I don't know why you guys think that all a woman needs to do is be thin.

 

Because it's true. Not all girls have frizzy hair. Some girls have straight hair and don't have to do anything.

 

 

1. Most men haven't been on the diets women have to go on. It feels like you are dying of starvation. What I am doing isn't really that unusual or extreme. My Mom's a diabetic and I try to follow the kind of diets she goes on with balanced meals as much as I can, but I still get shaky and can't concentrate sometimes because I'm so hungry.

 

2. Also, I never said what you did was fun. I said the opposite. You think being a woman is easy and fun, don't forget who has what perspective. All the pressure is on men and none on the women according to you guys.

 

3. Anyway, you guys are saying things like the average girl expects a man to be really fit and have rippling muscles and be tall. That isn't true at all. If it really was then everyone on this forum would be a virgin. If this was our standard.

 

I can list the most extreme standards men require of women as well . . . huge boobs, big lips, curvy butt, long legs, pretty face, pretty hair, clean skin, nice tan, large eyes, soft skin . . . .

 

4. Oh and let me go into all the personality aspects like you guys insist on doing . . . she has to want sex all the time, be sweet and caring, but not a pushover, she has to be a challenge, but not unattainable, clean the house and take care of the kids, etc., etc.

 

Do I think this is the norm of what most men want? No, because I'm not that dumb. You guys show how clueless you are about women when you say these things though.

 

5. The prettier you are, the more worth you have as a girl and on the flip side, the uglier you are, the more worthless you seem. We get tired of this one aspect of ourselves being focused on and blown out of proportion.

 

6. You guys had the opportunity to instead say that women are beautiful and wonderful the way they are in more natural ways, but it has turned into a competition that you insist on winning. It disturbs me. I have sympathized with you in certain areas, but you are incapable of doing the same (that your work-outs are not easy, that a lot of women shallowly require you to make money.) Maybe the reason you guys are so insecure and can't get good relationships has nothing to do with your bodies, but instead is related to your inability to sympathize with the opposite gender or even understand them at all.

 

1. Then you are on dumb diets, get off them. Eat clean, healthy food, stay away from fast food as much as possible, drink water. Eat all the broccoli, carrots, leaf lettuce (not iceberg), baked chicken, you want. You will be stuffed, not hungry.

 

2. You're being silly, I never said that. Women have lots of pressure, but this thread regards beauty and the difficulty in obtaining it.

 

3. They expect it yes, but they will settle if they can't land a guy like that. There are lots of articles on the recent attitudes of women and promiscuity. The more sexual partners a woman has, the more she wants the best (most attractive) males.

 

4. None of that has anything to do with beauty.

 

5. It's the same for guys. Short guys who have good attitudes and are nice are nowhere near guys that are tall and muscular in society. They can use money to help them trumph muscle and height, but it's still very difficult. Society views tall males as more acceptable. I'm 6'0 so I don't have to worry about it, but I have seen it and it's cruel and unfair.

 

6. That's not how it works unless you're talking to a guy who's trying to get into your pants. In every other scenario people are usually going to be honest. What I have read from guys in this thread is brutally honest. When I fall for a girl it's because of who she is as a package (religion, looks, intelligence, politics, personality), but this thread is talking about what society demands. And society demands that girls be fit/slim and guys be muscular to attract members of the opposite sex (not a particular one).

[sagetalk]

Rumor has it that every time hokie flexes his bicep, you can hear the sound of a woman fainting.

 

Don't you mean shows his face? Because girls on here say that it's the face that makes women faint. Not a shirtless picture of a guy with muscles, no, that never works .

[USMCHokie]

Rumor has it that every time hokie flexes his bicep, you can hear the sound of a woman fainting.

 

::FLEX:: ...... **THUD** :laugh:

 

 

Don't you mean shows his face? Because girls on here say that it's the face that makes women faint. Not a shirtless picture of a guy with muscles, no, that never works .

 

Hahahah. I'd say I have a rather average chinaman face too...so I must compensate with muscularity...

[Engadget]

Not all men care about beauty the way the media presents it, and a lot of women do it to themselves.

[sagetalk]

Hahahah. I'd say I have a rather average chinaman face too...so I must compensate with muscularity...

 

You aren't the only one in that boat, now where are my dumbbells .

[zengirl]

Physiques are simply just another element that is used to determine wow factor, just like the face is an element. Try to avoid looking solely at celebrities but more the average person on the street.

We’re talking about unrealistic standards of beauty and the assertion some men made was that the male ideal is more unattainable than the female ideal. So, celebrities are going to be a better way to judge that. Even the muscled celebrities seem to be rather lean. I always figured muscles like that were like women and shoes – more for other men than for the opposite gender.

Brad Pitt is ripped to near maximum for a guy his size. Ryan Reynolds, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, George Clooney, Denzel Washington, Matthew McConaughey, Hugh Jackman, Clive Owen, Daniel Craig,

Those guys are all in pretty good shape, yeah, but except for Daniel Craig, who I don’t think is attractive anyway just muscly, and maybe Ben Affleck (who used to look pudgy-faced before he got in shape), I think they’d be nearly as attractive without being so muscle-bound.

 

Not without working out at all – most folks need to work out a bit, to keep the pudge away and keep healthy – but without the routines they go through. They go through a lot of that stuff because all those guys, except Ryan Reynolds (whom I’m not even sure how he’s built, honestly; always thought he was a cute, skinny guy), are action heroes. It is a little silly to be an action hero without some muscles.

 

Thin guys who are cute besides Depp and Decaprio: Christian Bale (buffer now, because of the action hero thing mentioned above, but he was a sex symbol when skinny too), Jake Gyllynhall, Robert Pattinson, Orlando Bloom, Jared Leto (coming from the My So-Called Life days, he’s a big sex symbol for my generation!), the guy who plays Derek Shepard who’s name I never remember and who they even call “McDreamy,” Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Jude Law. . . I’m sure there are many to continue. There are plenty. And half those muscled guys you mentioned weren’t always muscled: Hugh Jackman used to be thinner (and better looking) back when he was only a RomCom leading man! Actually, RomComs seem to favor thin boys.

1. Then you are on dumb diets, get off them. Eat clean, healthy food, stay away from fast food as much as possible, drink water. Eat all the broccoli, carrots, leaf lettuce (not iceberg), baked chicken, you want. You will be stuffed, not hungry.

Plenty of women can’t lose weight by doing this. Their healthy weight may be at a size in the double digits, like size 12 or so, whereas society wants them to be a much smaller size. I’m kind of bothered by men and women thinking this. I have a rather large friend, M, who works out more than I do, eats better, and is still a size 12. People are always asking me why I can’t give her diet advice. I want to smack them: The only advice I’d have is, “Next time, have thinner genes.”

Many men (and women) don’t understand that the female metabolism and the male metabolism are vastly different. Women are built to gain weight (even the thin ones have some trouble sculpting parts of our body, if we are as hormonally mature as we should be), because food was scarce for thousands of years and women were still getting pregnant.

[gypsy_nicky]

Yeah and Scarlett Johansson's wow factor is in her face .

 

Brad Pitt is ripped to near maximum for a guy his size. Ryan Reynolds, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, George Clooney, Denzel Washington, Matthew McConaughey, Hugh Jackman, Clive Owen, Daniel Craig,

 

Do you want me to go on? All those guys are muscle guys with intense muscle workout routines and they are the leading standard of famous men who are physically attractive.

 

Decaprio and Deep are a few of the exceptions because they are perceived/marketed as bad boys (dark triad) which attract women by bad attitudes/behavior and has nothing to do with looks. If you're going to market a guy with a nice or plain personality in Hollywood, he's going to be ripped or forget it.

 

it actually is (Scarlett).

 

They're not muscly but lean. No don't go on, god knows as to why you included Daniel Craig......

 

As an example Brad Pitt was not jacked in fight club, he was under 160lbs, which is quite skinny for a man his height. Decaprio and Depp are both lean too. Depp and Decaprio would not be marketable with attitudes only. Film is mostly about body/face language and good looking people are better accepted in playing the lead role i.e what is beautiful is good.