xxoo Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 WITP, as you know from my thread, we lost that connection... human beings are not perfect. We all have our faults and stuff... when you are young and carefree, loving is much easier. There aren't that many worries. Get married, start a family, have many children, get a mortgage, two cars, 3 cats, a dog, full time jobs, nobody to help you and it's very easy to actually "forget" that you are married. You turn into chef, cleaning lady, car mechanic, nurse, babysitter, teacher, gardener, entertainer, father, mother... some days are so intense that you just want to run, believe me... Yes, true, but a healthy libido will cut through all that. When I have a high drive, I'm motivated to sacrifice sleep and make time for sex no matter what is going on in our lives. When I have a low drive (when nursing babies, or when I've been on ADs), all of the things you list make sex seem like just another chore.... My partner (nearing 20 years) hasn't experienced any drop in sexual interest in me over the years, as far as I can see. Kids, jobs, houses, stress...doesn't matter, he's horny! And I'm soft, smell good, and in his bed...what's not to like? lol Ok, I'm sure there is more to it than that Link to post Share on other sites
troggleputty Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Yes, true, but a healthy libido will cut through all that. When I have a high drive, I'm motivated to sacrifice sleep and make time for sex no matter what is going on in our lives. When I have a low drive (when nursing babies, or when I've been on ADs), all of the things you list make sex seem like just another chore.... My partner (nearing 20 years) hasn't experienced any drop in sexual interest in me over the years, as far as I can see. Kids, jobs, houses, stress...doesn't matter, he's horny! And I'm soft, smell good, and in his bed...what's not to like? lol Ok, I'm sure there is more to it than that Actually I would say with age the general level of energy does decrease. However as you indicate if the love is there the couple finds a way to "make time" for each other including sex. And, if they can't do it, they are frustrated by that lack. In contrast, situations such as giotto's are totally different. His lack of sex is not due to a busy schedule, lack of energy, etc. He has said his wife would be perfectly content if they never have sex. IOW there is one reason and one reason only for giotto's lack of sex: His wife doesn't want to have sex with him. Why make it any more complicated than that? She has said she does not want to have sex with him, and nothing he can do (other than threatening divorce) will change that. Typically women who feel this way towards their husbands have left the marriage emotionally and have displaced their physical/emotional desires towards another man. I suspect this is what has occurred in giotto's case but it is evidently a possibility that is too painful for him to contemplate. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Actually I would say with age the general level of energy does decrease. However as you indicate if the love is there the couple finds a way to "make time" for each other including sex. Yes, IF each partner has a healthy libido. Part of my post was pointing out that when I did NOT have a libido (for my partner or for anyone else), I had a very difficult time prioritizing and having sex. My love for my partner remained unchanged, however. I sometimes forced sex out of anxiety that we'd gone "too long", but I don't think that is actually the healthiest approach to the problem. Link to post Share on other sites
troggleputty Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Yes, IF each partner has a healthy libido. Part of my post was pointing out that when I did NOT have a libido (for my partner or for anyone else), I had a very difficult time prioritizing and having sex. My love for my partner remained unchanged, however. I sometimes forced sex out of anxiety that we'd gone "too long", but I don't think that is actually the healthiest approach to the problem. I find it interesting that you characterize what you did in such a negative fashion. Maybe because you've been brainwashed to believe that somehow it's "wrong" to give your spouse sexual gratification even if you don't particularly feel like it. On the contrary, what you did was admirable. You overcame your low libido to have sex with your partner despite a lack of desire precisely because of your love for your partner. That's not "bad." It's good. And it's a perfectly "healthy" approach to the situation. And your attitude of unselfishness is precisely what's needed. The problems we read about at LS are so often the result of persons who believe their only obligation is to their personal needs and desires without regard to the effect on the spouse or partner. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 I find it interesting that you characterize what you did in such a negative fashion. Maybe because you've been brainwashed to believe that somehow it's "wrong" to give your spouse sexual gratification even if you don't particularly feel like it. On the contrary, what you did was admirable. You overcame your low libido to have sex with your partner despite a lack of desire precisely because of your love for your partner. That's not "bad." It's good. And it's a perfectly "healthy" approach to the situation. And your attitude of unselfishness is precisely what's needed. The problems we read about at LS are so often the result of persons who believe their only obligation is to their personal needs and desires without regard to the effect on the spouse or partner. TP...I addressed this on the other thread, but my partner would disagree with you. He doesn't want me to force sex with him when I am disinterested. So I am sure that influences how I feel on the subject, but not because I am brainwashed. If anything, my partner encourages me to listen to my body and mind. We have a lot of regard for each other in all ways, and this is one way he shows his intense regard for me. Link to post Share on other sites
troggleputty Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 TP...I addressed this on the other thread, but my partner would disagree with you. He doesn't want me to force sex with him when I am disinterested. So I am sure that influences how I feel on the subject, but not because I am brainwashed. If anything, my partner encourages me to listen to my body and mind. We have a lot of regard for each other in all ways, and this is one way he shows his intense regard for me. Well I take back the word "brainwashed", that's not quite what I really meant, I guess I meant to say, socio-politically conditioned to believe that it's "wrong" for a man to want sex from his wife unless she happens to "be in the mood." But the key point here is that regardless of desire level both you and your partner actually care about how the other person feels and at least want to make a sincere effort to try to meet the other person's needs. You see giotto's wife does NOT feel the way you do. It really has NOTHING to do with "libido" issues. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 WITP, as you know from my thread, we lost that connection... human beings are not perfect. We all have our faults and stuff... when you are young and carefree, loving is much easier. There aren't that many worries. Get married, start a family, have many children, get a mortgage, two cars, 3 cats, a dog, full time jobs, nobody to help you and it's very easy to actually "forget" that you are married. You turn into chef, cleaning lady, car mechanic, nurse, babysitter, teacher, gardener, entertainer, father, mother... some days are so intense that you just want to run, believe me... Sorry but you created that intensity and stress yourself. Why not 2 children instead of 4. OK, you said they were not planned but hey, you know what to do not to have kids so that is no excuse. Why not just 1 cat instead of 3 and a dog? Why not 1 car instead of 2. I see this all the time: people want it all and afterwards they are stressed. I tend to keep my life simple. For example, I will soon have enough money to buy a second house which I can rent out and use for holidays. But I won't do that because it would make my life more complicated than I want. Besides, I don't want to go on holiday to the same place every year. Yes, I could take a cat, I love cats. But then I would have to worry all the time what to do with it when I go on holiday. Yes, I could buy a car. But I don't really need it, live in the city center and the office is just a couple of stops by subway. So I'd rather subscribe to some car sharing system. People want kids and afterwards they complain that they are so much work. Yeah, but couldn't you have guessed that before? I hope those are not the same people who say that people who don't have kids are selfish... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Typically women who feel this way towards their husbands have left the marriage emotionally and have displaced their physical/emotional desires towards another man. I suspect this is what has occurred in giotto's case but it is evidently a possibility that is too painful for him to contemplate. You keep bringing this up, but there is no OM... she is too mentally ill to contemplate an affair... I know, I'm there... I have contemplate it and I've snooped (computer, telephone, diaries, FB, you name it) and there is absolutely no sign of anything. She wouldn't do that. Because it's not just me, it's also the children... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Sorry but you created that intensity and stress yourself. Why not 2 children instead of 4. OK, you said they were not planned but hey, you know what to do not to have kids so that is no excuse. Why not just 1 cat instead of 3 and a dog? Why not 1 car instead of 2. I had no say in any of these... as far as the children are concerned, there were two genuine incidents... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Sorry but you created that intensity and stress yourself. Why not 2 children instead of 4. OK, you said they were not planned but hey, you know what to do not to have kids so that is no excuse. How is telling a poster "you should have had less kids" remotely helpful to his current situation? He's not concerned about fatherhood, he's trying to improve the sexual portion of his marriage. Thanks for nothing... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Samantha0905 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I had no say in any of these... as far as the children are concerned, there were two genuine incidents... My parents had 14 giotto and I clearly remember (I'm the youngest) my dad singing to my mother, patting her behind, hugging her, flirting with her. I'm pretty darn sure they had a happy sex life with 14 children. It's not the children..... Link to post Share on other sites
troggleputty Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 You keep bringing this up, but there is no OM... she is too mentally ill to contemplate an affair... I know, I'm there... I have contemplate it and I've snooped (computer, telephone, diaries, FB, you name it) and there is absolutely no sign of anything. She wouldn't do that. Because it's not just me, it's also the children... It doesn't have to be a real affair, esp. if she's "mentally ill" as you put it. She could and probably does have a very involved fantasy life that she may never have disclosed to ANYONE, ever, and that you would have no way of knowing about. She may harbor a romantic obsession about someone in her past, or someone she just casually knows, IOW, she could be having an affair "in her mind." The point is that there is a reason for her emotional and physical detachment from you. She just isn't willing to tell you what that reason is. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff1962 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I've come to the conclusion of screw this crap. There are plenty of women out there who like making love, and like a the peter. Life is way too short for this crapola. Link to post Share on other sites
troggleputty Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I've come to the conclusion of screw this crap. There are plenty of women out there who like making love, and like a the peter. Life is way too short for this crapola. Bingo. You are making the right decision. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I've come to the conclusion of screw this crap. There are plenty of women out there who like making love, and like a the peter. Life is way too short for this crapola. lol... that's how I feel the moment... Link to post Share on other sites
troggleputty Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 lol... that's how I feel the moment... jeff1962 is correct. Life is too short. You have done everything you can. Your wife is simply unwilling to cooperate in making the marriage a beneficial place for you to stay. Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Attis Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 There are plenty of women out there who like a the peter. .......... Link to post Share on other sites
Texsun65 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Amen brother! All it is is more and more depressing. You want a lousy marriage and sex life???? You are the one responsible for it. I know mine isn't perfect, but listening to the women predominantly on here so negative about sex and their withering sex live's with their spouses makes me livid. They just don't care and don't want to reignite the spark or enjoy sex. The men who come here and like dolts scratch their heads in confusion and all claim their spouses have orgasms, enjoy sex and can't understand why it happens so seldom. The women who have trouble with males, it is always men with issues, drugs, porn, alcohol.... And the men, like idiots all claim their wives are perfect (outside if issues, ones that are traced right back to their childhood, parents and upbringing) If you want a lousy marriage and sex life, very simple... Don't try.... And guess what, from what I read here on LS it is usually the woman who does not want to put in the effort...... Link to post Share on other sites
Texsun65 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I can see that you get it. Men need that from their wives and as soon as we learn that we are getting obligation sex it really ruins it for us. A wise wife would give her husband what he needs even if she doesn't need/want the same and she would never EVER let him know it is obligation sex. Once that cat (obligation sex) is out of the bottle it can never be put back in. Mine used her low libido as a tool to manipulate me for years. I finally told her enough was enough and if it didn't change I was out of there. It has changed a fair amount, but the reality that it is obligation sex each and every time makes it seem hollow and unfulfilling. I don't think it will sustain my marriage. I'm glad this was posted. This is by and large how a good deal of women feel in long term relationships. Sorry, but for a lot of women the sexual urge just goes 'bye bye' for them, without having any effect on the emotional part. No medical reason, no medication reason, just plain old hormone surges in the beginning of a relationship followed by a bottoming out over time. It sucks, but it happens. So few women will readily admit it though, and that is why you see so many men coming on here mystified about it. The way I see it, love and marriage is give and take. If a husband does for his wife in a certain way out of love, then the wife should do for the husband in a certain way out of love. Don't want sex? Not attracted? I can understand that, but would it really kill you to go out, get a 'great sex' book, some lube and spend a half hour or so a couple of times a week showing your husband some good sex and not just a 'dead fish can-you-just-make-it-fast' sort of thing? Do it because you love your husband, not because it is an obligation. Nothing is a turn off like lame obligational sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) I can see that you get it. Men need that from their wives and as soon as we learn that we are getting obligation sex it really ruins it for us. A wise wife would give her husband what he needs even if she doesn't need/want the same and she would never EVER let him know it is obligation sex. Once that cat (obligation sex) is out of the bottle it can never be put back in. Mine used her low libido as a tool to manipulate me for years. I finally told her enough was enough and if it didn't change I was out of there. It has changed a fair amount, but the reality that it is obligation sex each and every time makes it seem hollow and unfulfilling. I don't think it will sustain my marriage. Texsun, longtime no post. You had some very good posts I seem to remember. As for LucreziaBorgia, who you cited above and Lizzie60 and others who have let us in on this little secret. God help us if that is what our marriages all devolve to, how sad. At least she has the attitude to go get a book/fantacize and make that lousy;) 45-60 minutes a week tolerable. So depressed right now. Edited March 17, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 At least she has the attitude to go get a book/fantacize and make that lousy;) 45-60 minutes a week tolerable. So depressed right now. Tolerable? Bite yer tongue. I wasn't talking about myself in that post. I like to have my 45-60 minutes twice a day at least. Mornings especially. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Tolerable? Bite yer tongue. I wasn't talking about myself in that post. I like to have my 45-60 minutes twice a day at least. Mornings especially. I'm a night person myself..... Too bad..... But I thought all women felt that way about sex reading LS.... Link to post Share on other sites
txsilkysmoothe Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I once knew a woman who set a kitchen timer for her husband to have sex with her - I can't remember how many minutes she gave him. They are divorced now. I wish I had enough sex to get tired of it and I wonder if that is what it's all about. Those women who can have it regularly, take it for granted?!?! Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 who really is the man in my house So we had some conflict for a few days and then I went away for 3 nights to visit a friend of the family - he is an 80 year old guy. Came back from trip and wife seemed a bit "off" - told her she could take the night off - she disagreed - said we are connecting tonight. Of course that made me happy BUT she spent the next 4 hours in the kitchen channel surfing and it seemed like she wanted to be alone. I took a shower - she came into the bedroom just after I dried off and pulled me into bed. That night I definitely wanted her to hang with me/talk to me, lie next to me side by side touching way before we started to connect. But I know her, and knew she didn't want to be intimate for some reason, so I left her alone until we got in bed. Sometimes I act like the girl and she acts like the man in this whole exchange of emotions for sex. Not trying to rile you up. I was just stating how I felt. I wasn't turning it on the man -- I was saying it's a quandary. Sex and intimacy are not the same thing. Sex is a part of intimacy. I'm sure you know that. It appears you are saying a man needs sex. Period. Speaking for myself, I need some other things to occur before I desire to be with someone sexually. I don't want to just perform sex in order to make him happy. I want there to be an intimate union and that involves him actually knowing who I am and how I feel about things. It includes a lot of communication. It includes a lot of things that must be present in order for me to enjoy the sex part. Link to post Share on other sites
Texsun65 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 mem11363, You make some great points. Sometimes in my marriage it seems that my wife acts like a man as well. She is very unnaffectionate, she doesn't talk much and doesn't like to, regardless of what I do I cannot get mich of an emotional reaction from her with the exception of anger. I have been very thoughfult of her lately and have tried to suprise her with nice gifts like several sets of concert tickets, getting friends together for her birthday, got her lasic surgery lasy year and all she can say is that I spent too much. Not thank you! No happy giggles followed by a roll in the hay. The only conistent emotion is anger despite any efforts of anyone. Link to post Share on other sites
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