crazycatlady Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Over time I have listened to you fellows - and to my wife - and my viewpoint is evolving somewhat. So first I will start with some news that will give you a short chuckle at my expense - and considering my very early posts I suppose I deserve to be poked fun of a bit. My eldest child (who is 19) chose to do something just over 2 months ago that shocked, astonished and shamed my wife. From that day until now my wife as not even let me try to get her to come - not even once. Her libido is now effectively zero. So all along I kind of thought that my protection from a near celibate marriage was that special blend of 90/10 beta/alpha that I have fine tuned. But that isn't it. My wife just actually feels like it is an act of kindness to connect with me even though she gets no real physical pleasure from it - I mean sure I give her a massage - but she gets no real sexual pleasure. The ONLY pleasure she gets - which she claims is enough - is she says it makes her happy to make me happy. And equally true it would make her feel guilty to ignore me - leave me feeling tense/miserable. I was really tempted last week to tell her I would go buy a copy of sports illustrated swimsuit edition and leave her alone for a week or two - but I am going to wait for a bit and see how this goes before doing that. We are at about twice a week - with me arguing for less out of guilt and her arguing for more out of guilt. I do feel kind of unattractive and I am definitely at a loss as to how I should even act given how one sided this whole thing is. I've not been keeping up with this thread lately but this caught my eye. Do not discount how much pleasure making your partner happy can bring. I know I usually do at least once a week simply for his pleasure because it feels good to make him happy. And mmmm it makes him happy. So odds are, Mem, it really does make her happy. CCL Link to post Share on other sites
Wifecrazy Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I have posted this else where before, but are you, and if so for how long, have you been on a hormone birth control ? The suppression of hormones (testosterone in my wifes case) led to low sex drive & enjoyment. Easily changed and a big difference for her. Wish you well. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 We are at about twice a week - with me arguing for less out of guilt and her arguing for more out of guilt. I think you should trust your wife to make the decision. I definitely think that feeling pressured to have sex when uninterested is bad and can cause future issues, but I also believe that a grown woman in a relationship with very open communication (as yours seems to be) should be trusted to make choices with her own body. Hope it resolves quickly, mem, and she is back to herself. Parenting is damn hard sometimes :/ Link to post Share on other sites
Wifecrazy Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hate to be animalistic, both sexes are "wired" for sex differently. For most male animals quantity of mates is the best strategy to maximize passing on his genes, females selectivity & quality since she will carry & care for the offspring. Keeping things new for a male does not have to mean a new "who" a different when, where or how can help him over come instinct. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Over time I have listened to you fellows - and to my wife - and my viewpoint is evolving somewhat. So first I will start with some news that will give you a short chuckle at my expense - and considering my very early posts I suppose I deserve to be poked fun of a bit. My eldest child (who is 19) chose to do something just over 2 months ago that shocked, astonished and shamed my wife. From that day until now my wife as not even let me try to get her to come - not even once. Her libido is now effectively zero. So all along I kind of thought that my protection from a near celibate marriage was that special blend of 90/10 beta/alpha that I have fine tuned. But that isn't it. My wife just actually feels like it is an act of kindness to connect with me even though she gets no real physical pleasure from it - I mean sure I give her a massage - but she gets no real sexual pleasure. The ONLY pleasure she gets - which she claims is enough - is she says it makes her happy to make me happy. And equally true it would make her feel guilty to ignore me - leave me feeling tense/miserable. I was really tempted last week to tell her I would go buy a copy of sports illustrated swimsuit edition and leave her alone for a week or two - but I am going to wait for a bit and see how this goes before doing that. We are at about twice a week - with me arguing for less out of guilt and her arguing for more out of guilt. I do feel kind of unattractive and I am definitely at a loss as to how I should even act given how one sided this whole thing is. nobody will poke fun at you, but your post shows us that, despite all the good will in the world, when one spouse is adversely affected by a major problem, things just don't follow a normal path and whatever is suggested doesn't work until the problem is removed... sadly, some problems are very difficult to remove... if the problem lingers for many months, it then becomes pathological and only incisive action will produce some change, albeit temporary, until the status quo isn't resumed... And yes, the self-esteem goes and the feeling of failure and unattractiveness sets in... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I was really tempted last week to tell her I would go buy a copy of sports illustrated swimsuit edition and leave her alone for a week or two - but I am going to wait for a bit and see how this goes before doing that. We are at about twice a week - with me arguing for less out of guilt and her arguing for more out of guilt. I do feel kind of unattractive and I am definitely at a loss as to how I should even act given how one sided this whole thing is. Since you are still having sex about twice a week, what is it that bothers you....the amount or the lack of interest on her part? I have to guess that it is the quality and lack of interest from her, because even for the more amorous among us, twice a week with good sex would be okay. And if it is the lack of interest from her, I guess I can understand that. Sex is much more than a receiving of pleasure. If that is what it becomes, then many of us men are still unsatisfied. However, I can say that if this is unusual (and I am thinking that it is), in my situation, it began with less interest in sex before the quantity became less. For me, it was one small step after another. Find out the problem now and find a solution quickly before this becomes a pattern. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I have to guess that it is the quality and lack of interest from her, because even for the more amorous among us, twice a week with good sex would be okay. James please say you didn't really mean this! We've only been M a short while, but I'm dreading the prospect of our sex life dropping to twice a day... and you're holding out twice a WEEK as some kind of gold standard! Please say this isn't so..... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 James please say you didn't really mean this! We've only been M a short while, but I'm dreading the prospect of our sex life dropping to twice a day... and you're holding out twice a WEEK as some kind of gold standard! Please say this isn't so..... at least he didn't say twice a month... OWoman... some of us are not as lucky... Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2dance Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 James please say you didn't really mean this! We've only been M a short while, but I'm dreading the prospect of our sex life dropping to twice a day... and you're holding out twice a WEEK as some kind of gold standard! Please say this isn't so..... I don't even see my husband enough to do it twice a day, but he would never want that anyway...So I agreen OW most of us aren't nearly as lucky as you are Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 at least he didn't say twice a month... OWoman... some of us are not as lucky... (((((hugs))))) giotto. You're a saint, you really are - I'd be chewing through my wrists! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 James please say you didn't really mean this! We've only been M a short while, but I'm dreading the prospect of our sex life dropping to twice a day... and you're holding out twice a WEEK as some kind of gold standard! Please say this isn't so..... I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that once or twice a week with good quality sex...is plenty for me. Seriously. More than that....I guess I don't (or even we don't) have time. I honestly do think based on most answers I have read on LS, most men and women would be satisfied with that amount provided it was good sex and not just sex to keep the partner quiet. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I don't want to draw out this t/j too long, but I'm interested that you say: More than that....I guess I don't (or even we don't) have time. It's a long time since my kids were little, and my H's kids are teens, so perhaps I'm being naive about the demands on a couple with younger kids... but to me, I'd rather lose an hour of sleep (and sleep more deeply for the rest!). But most couples find time to sit on the couch in front of the TV, or to arb around doing not very much after dinner once the kids are in bed - so why not fill that time with the horizontal tango? Rope the kids in to do the chores before they go to bed, so that there's little left to do but lock up and put out the lights, and then... snuggle down for the arrival of the passion train...? Honestly, if I had to choose between having spotless bathroom floors and having a satisfied smirk on my face all day, for me there really would be no contest! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 OWoman, honestly, it is not just time but also interest. I do enjoy the time alone every evening after the kids are in bed. Technically, we have them all in bed by ten o'clock. But I can say for me as the one with the higher libido, sex more than twice a week doesn't even appeal to me. Seriously. And truthfully, once a week and as something to look forward to...knowing that it would be happening would probably be sufficient. Perhaps if every time was an out of this world experience, then I may talk differently, but even at our most sex (which was averaging about once a week or so...maybe a more), I was happy. The problem is that I don't know when of if sex will happen. My wife's view would be that she doesn't need it at all. But I am guessing that if she wanted it more often, then I would not be saying no...even if it was more than once or twice a week. BTW, I know of a couple that has reconciled their marriage after the H cheated. Why did he cheat? Because they were ONLY having sex once or twice a week and his wife was not "into it" as much as he would like. That I cannot relate to. Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 James please say you didn't really mean this! We've only been M a short while, but I'm dreading the prospect of our sex life dropping to twice a day... and you're holding out twice a WEEK as some kind of gold standard! Please say this isn't so..... I thought my sex drive was high OW. Twice a day would be awesome. Only we are on at different times (him mornings me afternoons). However I want 4 to 7 times a week some type of good sexual activity. Link to post Share on other sites
Texsun65 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 You bring up a good point. My wife does not seem to care too much if she gives me any pleasure. Her effort is very robotic and dutiful. I on the other hand go all out everytime and for every second to try and bring her pleasure. My greatest pleasure is seeing her pleased and happy but it all fades away when it seems to mean nothing to her. She can take it or leave it and she does not put anything more then the very minimum effort on her part. When you love someone don't you want to give them pleasure. Don't you want to try hard and be happy when you succeed in giving your partner pleasure. The fact the she is so lazy and uncaring about it makes me feel I do not matter to her. For me, I need to enjoy the whole experience... I am the one being penetrated, and depending on how much I'm enjoying the experience, it can feel amazing all the way to feeling like I have an object covered in sandpaper inside me. I'm never thinking about the end result and don't care if I have it, it's getting him to orgasm that I love.. the thrusts, positions, talking dirty.. I get really turned on and it's really pleasurable. If the journey was good, I'm satisfied afterwards! Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 It's a long time since my kids were little, and my H's kids are teens, so perhaps I'm being naive about the demands on a couple with younger kids... but to me, I'd rather lose an hour of sleep (and sleep more deeply for the rest!). But most couples find time to sit on the couch in front of the TV, or to arb around doing not very much after dinner once the kids are in bed - so why not fill that time with the horizontal tango? Honestly, this has been a constant uphill battle for us! Neither of us feels we've had enough sex since our first was born, but at least it keeps us hungry for each other The problem at this point is, even though we have a bedtime for the kids....it is an additional hour (often) until they are actually asleep. They may be obediently in bed, but neither of us feels comfy getting busy until they are snoring at this age. By the time they are asleep, we often just want to go to sleep ourselves--even if we were very hopeful 60 min earlier! Also, before kids, we were afternoon people! Afternoon sex has been as rare as flying pigs since having kids, lol. It was easier when we only had one, and that one napped...but those days are over. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Honestly, this has been a constant uphill battle for us! Neither of us feels we've had enough sex since our first was born, but at least it keeps us hungry for each other The problem at this point is, even though we have a bedtime for the kids....it is an additional hour (often) until they are actually asleep. They may be obediently in bed, but neither of us feels comfy getting busy until they are snoring at this age. By the time they are asleep, we often just want to go to sleep ourselves--even if we were very hopeful 60 min earlier! Also, before kids, we were afternoon people! Afternoon sex has been as rare as flying pigs since having kids, lol. It was easier when we only had one, and that one napped...but those days are over. my son is 15, has the bedroom next door to us and my wife waits until one o'clock in the morning to have sex... when we have it... I usually wake up again when she finally puts her book down... where's my espresso? Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 James, Twice a week is enough for me to be very happy. It isn't my perfect frequency - but close enough. And the quality has stayed really good. I am however afraid - truly afraid that if it stays so one sided eventually she WILL resent me - not want to connect - develop a sexual aversion to me. For now I am trying to convey the idea that I truly feel bad for her and that the way I am trying to be a good partner is to ask for sex less frequently. I really really do love my wife - and I feel bad about this - about my inability to arouse her. Before Lizzie tells me this is it - she is sexually averse to me - is going to start calling me "bro" etc - a couple observations: - I am NOT pressuring her for sex either directly or in any subtle manner. Like the other night I was in bed and it was late and I had zero expectation of sex and she came in and very blatantly initiated. About half the time she is initiating in the last couple months. - Nothing has changed about me - my behavior, appearance, cleanliness, income are all exactly the same - Her libido crash started within days of her learning something very upsetting, embarrassing and shameful about our oldest child I know everyone says this - but I actually do think it is that situation and don't think it is me. But I am not sure it matters so much. I have made sure to let her know I am extraordinarily grateful to her for being so generous and kind about this situation. And I have tried to go the extra mile both in bed - with very limited results - and have gone the extra mile quite a bit for her out of bed. Since you are still having sex about twice a week, what is it that bothers you....the amount or the lack of interest on her part? I have to guess that it is the quality and lack of interest from her, because even for the more amorous among us, twice a week with good sex would be okay. And if it is the lack of interest from her, I guess I can understand that. Sex is much more than a receiving of pleasure. If that is what it becomes, then many of us men are still unsatisfied. However, I can say that if this is unusual (and I am thinking that it is), in my situation, it began with less interest in sex before the quantity became less. For me, it was one small step after another. Find out the problem now and find a solution quickly before this becomes a pattern. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 As difficult as children are for fathers, there often is a completely different overriding difference and dynamic with mothers. I am sure it is not easy and the effect it has had on her must be difficult for the two of you. The fact it manifests itself in the bedroom results in a strange situation to say the least. I too know if I'd not be happy about it..... The fact she still is "providing" for you also is very awkward imo, and I know I'd not want it. Let's hope Lizzie60 does not take this chance to pounce. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 You do know you make up .000001% of the female population don't you????? Really you are not welcome around these parts with us sadsack males..... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 my son is 15, has the bedroom next door to us and my wife waits until one o'clock in the morning to have sex... when we have it... I usually wake up again when she finally puts her book down... where's my espresso? Will it be worse at 15? Right now, I've got one still likely to wake up crying, and another still likely to get up and "need" to tell us something she forgot to mention all day Parenting is neverending! But we love them so much Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I am however afraid - truly afraid that if it stays so one sided eventually she WILL resent me - not want to connect - develop a sexual aversion to me.. Talk, talk, talk. Make sure she knows that you have this concern (it is a valid concern). It is her responsibility to define and communicate her boundaries. You can help her to feel comfortable doing so (communicating that it is ok if she needs to take a break, that it is important to you that she feels good about sex, etc), but you can't determine them for her. Talk and trust that, when she offers sex, it is freely given. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Will it be worse at 15? Right now, I've got one still likely to wake up crying, and another still likely to get up and "need" to tell us something she forgot to mention all day Parenting is neverending! But we love them so much Hope for sleepovers and grandparents who will take the kids for a day or two..... There's always overnight camp and eventually university.....:lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 She just said "I am happy making you happy - I am a giver" She always has been the one who is more focused on giving than receiving. I asked her if she resented me. She looked confused and asked "for what?" I asked her if she felt pressured. She said not at all. Talk, talk, talk. Make sure she knows that you have this concern (it is a valid concern). It is her responsibility to define and communicate her boundaries. You can help her to feel comfortable doing so (communicating that it is ok if she needs to take a break, that it is important to you that she feels good about sex, etc), but you can't determine them for her. Talk and trust that, when she offers sex, it is freely given. Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 She just said "I am happy making you happy - I am a giver" She always has been the one who is more focused on giving than receiving. I asked her if she resented me. She looked confused and asked "for what?" I asked her if she felt pressured. She said not at all. I bet that makes you feel good to hear it. And I can totally see where she is coming from. What a great talk you guys had. Link to post Share on other sites
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