Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 It's lasted 15 years already and no sign of it abating... You'll have your new car, new dress, haircut and people will whisper.... Not a fun time. Hope things improve. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Giotto, please don't go soft on us and start this psychoanalytical suff on us (sticking stuff into body parts). In actuality is it not men who have more issues in the fact that they want to please the less interested partner (in hopes that it will ignite her libido) and thus want to not screw it up? Or am I way out of it? I vote way out of it. Obviously it is not the men (in these situations) with more issues, since the men are perfectly able to engage in sex. Obviously, the hang up (emotional or physical) lies with the woman. I'm beginning to wonder if you have any interest in actually understanding your wife--and using that understanding to communicate with her more openly--or if you just want to complain about her. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I'm beginning to wonder if you have any interest in actually understanding your wife--and using that understanding to communicate with her more openly--or if you just want to complain about her. Agree. Wanting to please the wife is one thing. Wanting to please how she wants to be pleased is entirely another thing. Since men think sex is all about the climax, then they cannot understand how the women could consider the sex act in an entirely different way. Ironically, when a man climaxes, he suddenly loses interest in sex. Yet when a woman has an orgasm, many times they are more interested in sex than before. For men, the orgasm is the end. For women, the fun is just beginning. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Agree. Wanting to please the wife is one thing. Wanting to please how she wants to be pleased is entirely another thing. Since men think sex is all about the climax, then they cannot understand how the women could consider the sex act in an entirely different way. Ironically, when a man climaxes, he suddenly loses interest in sex. Yet when a woman has an orgasm, many times they are more interested in sex than before. For men, the orgasm is the end. For women, the fun is just beginning. Your wife has multiple orgasms, but doesn't want sex, so you figure out the problem. My wife is happy with one and very, very seldom wants to continue (funny she calls herself a man in many instances). James you have a way of talking in riddles, that in the end just confuses me, and probably your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I vote way out of it. Obviously it is not the men (in these situations) with more issues, since the men are perfectly able to engage in sex. Obviously, the hang up (emotional or physical) lies with the woman. I'm beginning to wonder if you have any interest in actually understanding your wife--and using that understanding to communicate with her more openly--or if you just want to complain about her. with my orgasm=good=more sex hypothesis that is obviously flawed and incorrect....:rolleyes: Actually I don't complain about my wife at all and have learned at LS, that I am one of the very very very lucky ones. Hell I don't complain about sex nearly as much now (wife confirms it) after reading the crap other spouses go through. Sure we have our issues, we argue, we don't understand each other or know what the other is talking about on many occasions. And we do communicate..... I say I want more sex and she says go please yourself and don't leave a mess on the computer screen and flush the evidence.... I joke, I keed...... xxoo you really don't understand men going through this, do you????? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Wanting to please the wife is one thing. Wanting to please how she wants to be pleased is entirely another thing. This really resonates with me as a wife. James you have a way of talking in riddles, that in the end just confuses me, and probably your wife. xxoo you really don't understand men going through this, do you????? I understand James! And I think I understand Giotto, who seems to get his wife's point of view, even though he can't necessarily live with it. I get that. But, no, I don't understand a lot of what you say. Well..I understand what you say, but I don't understand why you dismiss what other's say. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Your wife has multiple orgasms, CAN have multiple orgasms. but doesn't want sex, so you figure out the problem. I think I know the problem. My wife is happy with one and very, very seldom wants to continue (funny she calls herself a man in many instances). So why do you complain about your sex life? James you have a way of talking in riddles, that in the end just confuses me, and probably your wife. No, my wife understands me too well if anything. Perhaps if you learn to understand how a woman thinks, then you will understand even more riddles about your own marriage. It is rather simple. Speak the language of love that is understood by the spouse. Thank you, xxoo. I appreciate your comments. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) Why are you not having sex more often and why is it so much stress/work for her to get orgasms? My understanding is that you are not going for hours are you? You have a way of co-mingling love/sex/intimacy and in the end you are doing a hell of a lot (probably more then me) for your wife to address this situation and getting less..... I really am not trying to be mean, as I have my hang-ups and fears, but there is not one answer I have found to my stoopid equation the makes sense, unless we are talking about huge resentment amongst many women here with their husbands..... Edited March 19, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Why are you not having sex more often and why is it so much stress/work for her to get orgasms.... My understanding is that you are not going for hours are you. After many months of research and frustration, I have decided that her fibromyalgia pain has a much bigger impact on her lack of love for sex. If you are serious in your question, then feel free to read this small article at this link: http://www.fibromyalgia-symptoms.org/fibromyalgia_sexuality.html I know my wife has said that while she enjoys orgasms, the additional muscular pain the next day makes her a little apprehensive to work for one. As for me, I will be the first to admit that I don't go for hours. I also know that I can give my wife orgasms. A man with little practice however can never be called extremely skilled. You have a way of co-mingling love/sex/intimacy and in the end you are doing a hell of a lot (probably more then me) and getting less..... If my end goal was sex, then I would be frustrated. But I have moved beyond that (at least for now) and have come to realize what is more important to me...sex or my wife. I have made my choice. I really am not trying to be mean, as I have my hang-ups and fears, but there is not one answer I have found to my stoopid equation the makes sense, unless we are talking about huge resentment amongst many women here with their husbands..... It is rather simple....men and women are different. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 After many months of research and frustration, I have decided that her fibromyalgia pain has a much bigger impact on her lack of love for sex. This sounds very strange to me. YOU have DECIDED that this is the reason? Euh... have you told your wife that you have decided that? Have you spoken about this to her? This does not seem like a matter of deciding something to me. Why don't you ask her what she feels is the reason? Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 This sounds very strange to me. YOU have DECIDED that this is the reason? Euh... have you told your wife that you have decided that? Have you spoken about this to her? This does not seem like a matter of deciding something to me. Why don't you ask her what she feels is the reason? yes I'm being nasty, but reading all his posts, he seems very adept at making excuses for the lack of sex in his life. He defends his wife to no end, while upset about the situation. I did do a quick read on fibromyalgia and sex and to me it seems like another excuse for the lack of sex in his life. I can only imagine how difficult it is, but can not understand how he can be here complaining about the issue on one hand and continually absolving his wife on the other. Again he is maybe in a best case scenario wanting sex 1X/wk.... I am truly getting frustrated on LS reading males seemingly wanting so little, yet when denied, accepting the fact that there wives won't have sex with them....... And again in each case women who have orgasms..... Giotto 11 days ago finally had sex with a wife who claims to not think about sex at all, who had an orgasm while just rubbing against him as she was giving him a BJ..... And then she has shut down again..... Yep I don't understand women whatsoever...... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 James, you may have already read this, but here is a touching article about one couples' efforts to maintain a sexual relationship with fibro: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/PainManagement/comments?type=story&id=4841319 I think it is wonderful how that couple manages to protect their intimate relationship, even though sex is not always possible. The comments are as interesting as the article. There is a comment from a man named Vince, describing his experience with fibro and sexuality, from a man's point of view: I am a man and believe it or not , and I have Fibromyalgia, and neuropathic pain. I understand this subject entirely , I had to fake orgasms because I wanted to please my wife to keep our sexual relationship alive eventhough my pain levels were high and in conjunction with all the medicines I have to take ,I have developed erectile dysfunction. Life has been hard because my illness that my wife wants divorce and since we have seperated .With this ilness I have to accept the chronic pain and change your life style.In, conlusion life is not fair.Vince It isn't just women and it isn't an excuse. Chronic illness can wreak havoc on sexual functioning. Without an understanding, empathetic spouse (like James), there really is no hope. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 yes I'm being nasty, but reading all his posts, he seems very adept at making excuses for the lack of sex in his life. He defends his wife to no end, while upset about the situation. I did do a quick read on fibromyalgia and sex and to me it seems like another excuse for the lack of sex in his life. I can only imagine how difficult it is, but can not understand how he can be here complaining about the issue on one hand and continually absolving his wife on the other. Again he is maybe in a best case scenario wanting sex 1X/wk.... I am truly getting frustrated on LS reading males seemingly wanting so little, yet when denied, accepting the fact that there wives won't have sex with them....... And again in each case women who have orgasms..... Giotto 11 days ago finally had sex with a wife who claims to not think about sex at all, who had an orgasm while just rubbing against him as she was giving him a BJ..... And then she has shut down again..... Yep I don't understand women whatsoever...... I do agree that we try to justify too much our wives' excuses, but then we are nice chaps... As you know, I don't think I would be still married to my wife if we didn't have children. Might sounds awful, but it's the truth. I still care very much about her and just yesterday she cut her hair like she used to have it when we were younger... lots of memories came flooding back... after all these years it's not easy to detach yourself from the past and the present... it's such an entangled mess of feelings and emotions. I wish she could do more for us, but obviously she is not able to. So, I'm not left with many options. If I stay, I just want it to be agreeable enough to enjoy it, but this - like in James' situation - means a rather sad sex life... Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I must be more male in nature though am female. I was never happy with my sex with my ex husband. He could go months on end with no sex and when he did it was two minutes or so. He had definite hang ups about it and I never wanted to discuss my dissatisfaction with it due to his larger concerns. I can say my current relationship gives me everything I want in this department. I love having him chase me all the time! I hope to keep that going for a very long time. Sure there are times that we will have maintencance sex, have to break out the lube as I am not "there" at that moment but having been in a relationship where I was rarely satisfied, I can "take one for the team" for our mutual happines. And I know that once in the middle of it, it is always good. I learned a lot from my marriage and I learned what I could and could not accept and I try and practice that in my current relationship. Sex is very important to each of us and we both agreed to keep it a priority. I think not enough people discuss this prior to marriage and it becomes a huge deal for at least one party. I know that the affection that I want, the cuddling, etc is enhanced greatly when he is getting what makes him feel connected and loved. This area of our relationship is a gift and I want to give him everything because it is expressing my love for him as well as giving me back what I want and need. I have learned men are not complex creatures and are very easy to make happy. And he will go to extremes to make me happy. I do not think it is fair for one spouse to make a decision that they do not want to engage in sex yet expect sexual fidelity from their spouse. There is a give and take but one party making an executive decision in something this important is recipe for disaster. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I do not think it is fair for one spouse to make a decision that they do not want to engage in sex yet expect sexual fidelity from their spouse. There is a give and take but one party making an executive decision in something this important is recipe for disaster. yes... I must find a reasonably priced lady of the night ASAP... Link to post Share on other sites
wien7777 Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 This is literally the most annoying and over-exhausted topic through and through. Regardless of gender- if you feel you don't want sex with your SO you're either (1) not genuinely romantically interested for whatever reason, or (2) you're not doing it right. What is "right" evidently varies from person to person, but that only means you should invest the appropriate amount of time in finding out your preference. But don't blame it on a "low libido"; that's just myth and laziness.. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 This is literally the most annoying and over-exhausted topic through and through why are you reading this, then? You can spare us your unhelpful comments... obviously, you've never been with a low libido partner... cheers... Link to post Share on other sites
wien7777 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 why are you reading this, then? The thread's title is misleading/as I was optimistic about an actual new perspective on the matter. And my comments may be deemed "unhelpful" by you, but your sarcastic (bitter?) quip was unnecessary altogether. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The thread's title is misleading/as I was optimistic about an actual new perspective on the matter. And my comments may be deemed "unhelpful" by you, but your sarcastic (bitter?) quip was unnecessary altogether. Cheers! well, just because you don't have low libido, than it's a myth and laziness? The mind boggles... Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I I still care very much about her and just yesterday she cut her hair like she used to have it when we were younger... lots of memories came flooding back... after all these years it's not easy to detach yourself from the past and the present... it's such an entangled mess of feelings and emotions. I wish she could do more for us, but obviously she is not able to. I can't help it but I have the feeling that these wives know very well what buttons to push. I would not be surprised if taking that haircut now, right after a new crisis where you said you wanted to divorce, is not done on purpose. It seems to me that now and then some crumbles are being distributed so that the guy keeps hoping that the good old times will come back. But he remains on an eternal diet... I think that there are many people who become widow/widower after a long marriage and meet someone new who is generous with love and sex, must think that they have waisted their time in their long marriage because there were people out there who would give a whole bread instead of some crumbles. Your wife not able to? That's not true because when you threaten with divorce she gives you sex. Wouldn't it be great if there was also sex without the divorce talk? Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I can't help it but I have the feeling that these wives know very well what buttons to push. I would not be surprised if taking that haircut now, right after a new crisis where you said you wanted to divorce, is not done on purpose. It seems to me that now and then some crumbles are being distributed so that the guy keeps hoping that the good old times will come back. But he remains on an eternal diet... I think that there are many people who become widow/widower after a long marriage and meet someone new who is generous with love and sex, must think that they have waisted their time in their long marriage because there were people out there who would give a whole bread instead of some crumbles. Your wife not able to? That's not true because when you threaten with divorce she gives you sex. Wouldn't it be great if there was also sex without the divorce talk? well, I just updated my thread with news... partially good news, I suppose... let's see if she can keep it up! I do feel that I have indeed wasted 15 years of my life in this marriage. The first 10 were fine, but that's where it should have ended... I was weak and chose not to do anything about it... Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 giotto - My advice, and I have been in your shoes, is you need to figure out your boundaries and your needs and state them clearly for your spouse. Tell her exactly what you need and how you need it. As you have the right to your needs, so does she. What I have learned from my experience is I diminished my needs and did not press the issues. When I finally did we had a decade of past behaviour there that was hard to break. I requested therapy for him as well as for me, mc, etc. I laid things out there that he could to them if he wanted the relationship to continue but not so forcefully that he was being pressured into it. I wanted him to want to do it as I wanted to do things that made him happy. What I was getting was good enough but what I realized was it wasn't enough and being afraid of hurting him wasn't overriding these needs. Finally after 12 years together I left. I left because of the above. I also left because I started an affair something I knew for me to do meant I was totally done with the marriage. I didn't want to guilt him into being someone he wasn't. He was wonderful just as he was. That didn't diminish that it wasn't enough for me. He, and the marriage, were a wonderful security blanket and we both deserved more. If both parties are not going to invest 100% into it it isn't worth it (in my eyes). So, it was not the road I wanted to walk but looking back one I could have predicted in the first couple years. The only thing I do regret is the timing of the affair. Sex is important to a relationship. It keeps the two parties connected. If both parties are not on the same wavelength with it and do not have a happy compromise things will start to crumble. The one thing I learned was in my younger years I spent too much time worrying about looking fat, dissatisfaction with my body, and allowing those thoughts to envade our time together. It was stupid and a complete waste of time. Too much time not just being in the moment. You never know how many of those you have. Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 well, I just updated my thread with news... partially good news, I suppose... let's see if she can keep it up! I do feel that I have indeed wasted 15 years of my life in this marriage. The first 10 were fine, but that's where it should have ended... I was weak and chose not to do anything about it... I haven't been following everything in here as closely as other threads but Giotto this is so.....heartwrenching to me as a spouse. I love my H enough that I would never want him to stay with me if that was how he felt. I don't want him to stay if he is not getting more out of the relationship then he's putting in. If the pain is more then the love, then its time to go. And no matter how much I love him, if the pain becomes more then the love, I will go to. Because I want our ending - if there is an ending - to be one of sadness, because it is sad when love ceases to be enough, and not one of anger, resentment, and/or bitterness. I'm not talking about cutting out at the first sign of trouble. And I think taking a year or two to really try and make things work is not out of line. But you have now had more years of pain then years of happiness. It would pain me as a spouse to know I put my loved one thought so much hurt. CCL Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I haven't been following everything in here as closely as other threads but Giotto this is so.....heartwrenching to me as a spouse. I love my H enough that I would never want him to stay with me if that was how he felt. I don't want him to stay if he is not getting more out of the relationship then he's putting in. If the pain is more then the love, then its time to go. And no matter how much I love him, if the pain becomes more then the love, I will go to. Because I want our ending - if there is an ending - to be one of sadness, because it is sad when love ceases to be enough, and not one of anger, resentment, and/or bitterness. I'm not talking about cutting out at the first sign of trouble. And I think taking a year or two to really try and make things work is not out of line. But you have now had more years of pain then years of happiness. It would pain me as a spouse to know I put my loved one thought so much hurt. CCL this is all been disintegrating under my feet that I don't know what to think anymore... last 15 years, I would say 30% happiness, 70% pain... I adore my children, but I've come to the conclusion that I've suffered for no reason all these years... and, yes, I chose to ignore it - I reinforced the behaviour - and to escape from it until I couldn't take it anymore. All of this sounds pathetic and it really is... I've been weak... this is all it boils down to, really... Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 this is all been disintegrating under my feet that I don't know what to think anymore... last 15 years, I would say 30% happiness, 70% pain... I adore my children, but I've come to the conclusion that I've suffered for no reason all these years... and, yes, I chose to ignore it - I reinforced the behaviour - and to escape from it until I couldn't take it anymore. All of this sounds pathetic and it really is... I've been weak... this is all it boils down to, really... Even bad love is hard to let go of sometimes. But children can thrive with seperated parents, especially if both are willing to work with each other on making sure they do. Both tend to be more willing to work with each other if the divorce happens before resentment is in full swing (IMO) and bitterness, anger, and even hatred, is all that is felt. CCL Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts